Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > General Discussion


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-21-2011, 09:22 AM   #41 (permalink)
Future Bureaucrat
 
KirStang's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeraph View Post
I'm not aware of any studies off hand, but that's what my personal experience has told me. For any type of child for that matter.

My sister was brought up that way for instance. If she couldn't do a homework project on her own or if she didn't get an A she cried and was basically depressed all day/night. She even had to skip some school.

That and my upper level child psychology class I took in college.
So you sister took a sniper rifle to class because she didn't get an A, huh?

---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post
Lemme guess... Asians are better ninjas, too.
You know it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieber Code on the laws of war
"Men who take up arms against one another in public war do not cease on this account to be moral beings, responsible to one another and to God."
KirStang is offline  
Old 01-21-2011, 10:46 AM   #42 (permalink)
Banned
 
Zeraph's Avatar
 
Location: The Cosmos
No, that was a very obvious reference.
Zeraph is offline  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:13 PM   #43 (permalink)
Insane
 
raging moderate's Avatar
 
Location: Whatever house my keys can get me into
winning is fun.
__________________

These are the good old days...




formerly Murp0434
raging moderate is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 12:54 AM   #44 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
balderdash
TheCrimsonGhost is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 09:58 AM   #45 (permalink)
Insane
 
raging moderate's Avatar
 
Location: Whatever house my keys can get me into
ok what I meant by that is that people worry too much about letting their kids have fun and not work too hard. Hard work is what gets you what you want/need in life, and what makes you win. So, to those who say, why don't you (let them) relax and have more fun, I say, winning is fun.
__________________

These are the good old days...




formerly Murp0434
raging moderate is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 12:08 PM   #46 (permalink)
on fire
 
animosity's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
Well said.
animosity is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 02:30 PM   #47 (permalink)
Eponymous
 
jewels's Avatar
 
Location: Central Central Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by raging moderate View Post
ok what I meant by that is that people worry too much about letting their kids have fun and not work too hard.
Crock. Ever heard of balance?

Just because parents want their kids to experience the joy of actually being a kid doesn't suggest that hard work and discipline aren't important. Part of this childhood joy is achievement and parent pleasing.

Constantly raising the bar works for kids who have fun, too. And study, statistics or real life, I vote for real life. In my real life, the kids whose parents showered them with love, encouraged playtime and allowed them to explore on their own, providing the tools and materials the kid were drawn to, had kids who all grew into extremely successful adults.

Of those who were raised in a much stricter, more rigid environment, very few of us are what most of you would consider successful. Rebellion has it's cost.

I don't buy any of the studies. We all know they're meaningless as it's impossible to get a true sampling. Take two kids in the same environment, same genetic material, same schools ... different outcomes most likely. Which all proves absolutely nothing. Except that we're all different and based, most likely, on psychological differences, outcomes will vary.
__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain
jewels is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 07:28 PM   #48 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
It's a clever way to sell a book, picking a fight like this. It's seems like she might be milking the pimple of racism?

But on the topic itself - it smells morally suspicious to me, this super-strict parenting. Hopefully somebody with a stronger grounding in arts/philosophy could phrase it much better (than me). On what basis is it ok to impose restrictions like this. Before taking freedom away or impacting on others freedoms - a very strong case needs to be made.

It somehow seems ironic. Having migrated to a country with freedoms of choice, philosophy, religion and expression - this women is apparently using and advocating a totalitarian approach in the situation where she has conrol (over her children). What sort of people will those children become. Will they make good bosses or good leaders? Will they be good partners? Will they be socially popular and become valued team members?
Nimetic is offline  
Old 02-01-2011, 02:24 PM   #49 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
I've got the book on my reading list, I've got a few in front of it.

I did find this today..


Quote:
Daughter of Amy Chua, who wrote 'Why Chinese Mothers are Superior,' responds to controversy - NYPOST.com
Why I love my strict Chinese mom

By SOPHIA CHUA-RUBENFELD

Last Updated: 11:36 AM, January 18, 2011

Posted: 11:29 PM, January 17, 2011

Writer Amy Chua shocked the world with her provocative essay, “Why Chinese Mothers are Superior,” when it appeared in the Wall Street Journal earlier this month.

The article, excerpted from her new book, “Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother,” described “how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids.” It led with a manifesto: “Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do: attend a sleepover; have a playdate; be in a school play; complain about not being in a school play; watch TV or play computer games; choose their own extracurricular activities; get any grade less than an A; not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama; play any instrument other than the piano or violin; not play the piano or violin.”

While Chua says she has received death threats for her comments (one critic called her the “worst mother ever”), the question remains: What do her own children think? Now Chua’s eldest daughter, Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld, 18, tells her side of the story exclusively to The Post . . .

Dear Tiger Mom,

You’ve been criticized a lot since you published your memoir, “Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother.” One problem is that some people don’t get your humor. They think you’re serious about all this, and they assume Lulu and I are oppressed by our evil mother. That is so not true. Every other Thursday, you take off our chains and let us play math games in the basement.

But for real, it’s not their fault. No outsider can know what our family is really like. They don’t hear us cracking up over each other’s jokes. They don’t see us eating our hamburgers with fried rice. They don’t know how much fun we have when the six of us — dogs included — squeeze into one bed and argue about what movies to download from Netflix.

I admit it: Having you as a mother was no tea party. There were some play dates I wish I’d gone to and some piano camps I wish I’d skipped. But now that I’m 18 and about to leave the tiger den, I’m glad you and Daddy raised me the way you did. Here’s why.

A lot of people have accused you of producing robot kids who can’t think for themselves. Well, that’s funny, because I think those people are . . . oh well, it doesn’t matter. At any rate, I was thinking about this, and I came to the opposite conclusion: I think your strict parenting forced me to be more independent. Early on, I decided to be an easy child to raise. Maybe I got it from Daddy — he taught me not to care what people think and to make my own choices — but I also decided to be who I want to be. I didn’t rebel, but I didn’t suffer all the slings and arrows of a Tiger Mom, either. I pretty much do my own thing these days — like building greenhouses downtown, blasting Daft Punk in the car with Lulu and forcing my boyfriend to watch “Lord of the Rings” with me over and over — as long as I get my piano done first.

Everybody’s talking about the birthday cards we once made for you, which you rejected because they weren’t good enough. Funny how some people are convinced that Lulu and I are scarred for life. Maybe if I had poured my heart into it, I would have been upset. But let’s face it: The card was feeble, and I was busted. It took me 30 seconds; I didn’t even sharpen the pencil. That’s why, when you rejected it, I didn’t feel you were rejecting me. If I actually tried my best at something, you’d never throw it back in my face.

I remember walking on stage for a piano competition. I was so nervous, and you whispered, “Soso, you worked as hard as you could. It doesn’t matter how you do.”

Everybody seems to think art is spontaneous. But Tiger Mom, you taught me that even creativity takes effort. I guess I was a little different from other kids in grade school, but who says that’s a bad thing? Maybe I was just lucky to have nice friends. They used to put notes in my backpack that said “Good luck at the competition tomorrow! You’ll be great!” They came to my piano recitals — mostly for the dumplings you made afterward — and I started crying when I heard them yelling “bravo!” at Carnegie Hall.

When I got to high school, you realized it was time to let me grow up a little. All the girls started wearing makeup in ninth grade. I walked to CVS to buy some and taught myself how to use it. It wasn’t a big deal. You were surprised when I came down to dinner wearing eyeliner, but you didn’t mind. You let me have that rite of passage.

Another criticism I keep hearing is that you’re somehow promoting tunnel vision, but you and Daddy taught me to pursue knowledge for its own sake. In junior year, I signed myself up for a military-history elective (yes, you let me take lots of classes besides math and physics). One of our assignments was to interview someone who had experienced war. I knew I could get a good grade interviewing my grandparents, whose childhood stories about World War II I’d heard a thousand times. I mentioned it to you, and you said, “Sophia, this is an opportunity to learn something new. You’re taking the easy way out.” You were right, Tiger Mom. In the end, I interviewed a terrifying Israeli paratrooper whose story changed my outlook on life. I owe that experience to you.

There’s one more thing: I think the desire to live a meaningful life is universal. To some people, it’s working toward a goal. To others, it’s enjoying every minute of every day. So what does it really mean to live life to the fullest? Maybe striving to win a Nobel Prize and going skydiving are just two sides of the same coin. To me, it’s not about achievement or self-gratification. It’s about knowing that you’ve pushed yourself, body and mind, to the limits of your own potential. You feel it when you’re sprinting, and when the piano piece you’ve practiced for hours finally comes to life beneath your fingertips. You feel it when you encounter a life-changing idea, and when you do something on your own that you never thought you could. If I died tomorrow, I would die feeling I’ve lived my whole life at 110 percent.

And for that, Tiger Mom, thank you.

Reported by Mandy Stadtmiller
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 02-26-2011, 12:14 AM   #50 (permalink)
I Confess a Shiver
 
Plan9's Avatar
 
Long-winded but delightfully proletariat dissent...

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Erich Shulte guy from the site everybody hates
It seems to be a common enough view that this race of pitiless automatons will come to dominate us all. But really, this baroque showcase is evidence of why China isn’t much of threat to become a global hegemon. Yes, the display was impressive, but that’s all it is. The Chinese probably raised everyone who participated in the opening ceremony from birth to complete a simple robot task for the purpose of impressing all of the other countries, then killed them and harvested their organs for military rations the minute the international circus left town. Why is that threatening? Why is that a model for success? It’s like a nerd trying to impress the cool girls by renting a massive limo and blowing a year’s babysitting money.

How would, say, England achieve the same effect? England is a superpower of the past, of course, but they’re still in with the cool crowd and get their fair share of the action. England is McConaughey in Dazed and Confused. And how would they wow the world if they put on such a ceremony? Not by reducing thousands of their citizens to parts in an amusing cuckoo clock that only works once. No need to try so hard. They’d trot out The Stones, Elton John, The Who (nobody would care that the good members are dead) Gary Glitter and Subhumans. And everybody would swoon. That China relies on elaborate contrivances to impress, rather than the natural byproducts of their culture, evidences the fact we don’t need to fear them. Every totalitarian society compels its people to participate in these ridiculous displays. They have no choice because they stifle the individualism and creativity that generates stuff that is actually worthwhile in itself.

Awe of China is rooted almost entirely in the fantasies of bean counters who look at the massive population and just assume that… ????= Profit!!! If China is ever even half as wealthy (per capita) as the U.S., imagine how many pairs of Dockers we would sell there! Billionaires will become multi-billionaires! China is the conduit for the continued growth of capitalism. Therefore China is, THE FUTURE!

But China’s always been enormous, repressive and had great resources and it’s never really been a first team all-pro on the world stage. And Western imperialism doesn’t explain why they’ve been eating Japanese and Korean dust for some time or why the enclaves of Chinese success in Hong Kong and Taiwan happened to occur in segregation from the mainland. Yes, the raw tools are there. But China is Shawn Kemp to Japan’s John Stockton and America’s Magic Johnson. And there’s no real reason to think that will ever change. Even if the big Western economies collapse, that will just mean the whole world turns into the D-League. A lengthy preamble, I know, but I think that is important to understand the baselessness of the robophobia it exploits, before taking a look Amy Chua’s Wall Street Journal article, “I Am A Hideous Cunt.”

I’m not going to give this the full Hackwatch treatment because Chua obviously just makes a bunch of shit up and I don’t want to spend too much time commenting on material written to draw comment. Like, in the beginning of her article, she goes through the obligatory song and dance about how moms of any nationality can be “Chinese Moms,” so that she can pretend that she isn’t race bating when she says stuff like, “if a Chinese child gets a B—which would never happen—there would first be a screaming, hair-tearing explosion.”

But let’s run through the core points, because I do think Chua believes in her underlying message and the response to the piece is embarrassing either way. She does believe that it is acceptable to replace the pleasures of privileged childhood with a program for destroying individuality. She is consumed by impressing other people (perhaps one reason she’s willing to use dishonesty to add “bestselling author” to her CV). And… she is horrible. Let’s just dive in.

Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:

• attend a sleepover

• have a playdate

• be in a school play

• complain about not being in a school play

• watch TV or play computer games

• choose their own extracurricular activities

• get any grade less than an A

• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

• play any instrument other than the piano or violin

• not play the piano or violin.


Is all of this true? Well, when supporting the book on “The Colbert Report,” Chua clarified. Apparently, when she said “never” she meant “between the ages of nine and thirteen.” Maybe she went back to her original story for Fox News appearances. I don’t know. But I do think that she honestly favors this kind of deprivation and it’s clear that many readers are willing to fall in line with such a program, or at least admire it from afar as an example of Chinese superiority, real or imagined (it’s imagined).

That leads me to my first Tarantino quote in about twelve years: “Are you such a loser that you can’t tell when you’ve won?” In other words, the fact that your kids can attend sleepovers and play video games as opposed to say, die of malaria or be raped by the soldiers of a local warlord, makes up a large portion of the spoils of victory. To struggle so that your children might one day be in a position to view Shrek with pure pleasure or stay up all night eating candy with their friends, only to gleefully deny them that and turn your home into a boot camp seems not only sadistic, but perhaps self-defeating. They could have practiced the violin for three hours a day if they’d been born in China.

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you’re good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences.

I know Chua is basically trolling here, but I still think that this has to come from a pretty warped mind. Like, how does one dream up such a twisted notion of fun? Water slides can’t be fun unless you figure out some way of proving you are better at going down them than everybody else? What a great way to go through life.

Here’s an excerpt from her book, I’m An Even Bigger Cunt Than You Thought. It’s about rejecting her child’s birthday card because it wasn’t good enough.

I grabbed the card again and flipped it over. I pulled out a pen from my purse and scrawled ‘Happy Birthday Lulu Whoopee!’ I added a big sour face. “What if I gave you this for your birthday Lulu- would you like that? But I would never do that, Lulu. No — I get you magicians and giant slides that cost me hundreds of dollars. I get you huge ice cream cakes shaped like penguins, and I spend half my salary on stupid sticker and erase party favors that everyone just throws away. I work so hard to give you good birthdays! I deserve better than this. So I reject this.” I threw the card back.

Personally, I don’t mind rejecting the card if it really was half-assed. But the hysterical overreaction is telling. Chua simply cannot be faking the rudeness and imperiousness that drips from every word. If I woke up in Bill Gates’ body tomorrow, my first order of business would be to be to pay her daughters $1 Billion each to star in a porno. It would be called Chua Chua Train and it would be filmed in a box car with a bunch of hobos.

As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the remaining guests.

Confucius say, follow the path of righteousness and you too can become an obnoxious asshole who takes pride in ruining dinner parties. I’m sure the story is grossly exaggerated, but we still get a clear picture of a woman who delights in imposing herself on others and can’t wait to flaunt her misdeeds to as many as possible. “Hey, guess what, guess what, guess what… I threatened to lock my child outside in the snow once because she didn’t want to practice the piano! Can you believe it? I totally did! Does that upset you? Does it, does it, does it?”

Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child can get them. If their child doesn’t get them, the Chinese parent assumes it’s because the child didn’t work hard enough. That’s why the solution to substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child. The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take the shaming and to improve from it. (And when Chinese kids do excel, there is plenty of ego-inflating parental praise lavished in the privacy of the home.)



Third, Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their children and therefore override all of their children’s own desires and preferences. That’s why Chinese daughters can’t have boyfriends in high school and why Chinese kids can’t go to sleepaway camp. It’s also why no Chinese kid would ever dare say to their mother, “I got a part in the school play! I’m Villager Number Six. I’ll have to stay after school for rehearsal every day from 3:00 to 7:00, and I’ll also need a ride on weekends.” God help any Chinese kid who tried that one.



Western parents try to respect their children’s individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they’re capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.

I just want to go back to the idea that it’s OK to drain childhood of fun and crush the interests of your kids under your combat boot so that one day they reflect the blinding rays of your megalomania… um, I mean so that they can be happy one day in the future. Even if you’re not a utilitarian, some light utilitarian reasoning is a good way to identify really bad ideas. If something creates a gaping deficit in utility, it’s usually not good.

Quite a lot of people who are lucky enough to be working class or higher in the first world and unmolested would identify childhood as their happiest time. This includes many people who are considered successful adults. This is because stuff like sleepovers and getting Mike Tyson’s Punchout might be more fun than you could possibly have as an adult. I’ve been in some pretty great spots since growing up and it seems like I still have to remind myself of how much fun I should be having and not to worry about if I forgot to pay the gas bill and to enjoy the moment and it never completely works. Discovering that my collection of Star Wars toys had doubled on Christmas morning? Unadulterated joy.

So, erasing all of those experiences (to say nothing of the intentional infliction of humiliation and shame) should eventually be outweighed by future gains. Chua doesn’t even really make that argument, because she can’t. Like, suppose her kids could have their own interests, do sleepovers, watch a reasonable amount of TV and still were expected to do their homework and maintain a high GPA. Would they be much worse off in the future? Even if Chua’s sadism meant they got into Harvard instead of Virginia, and that meant they wound up making like 15% more money, it’s not clear that they would see improvements in utility later in life at all, let alone improvements so great that they would make up for a difficult childhood when they could have had a wonderful one.

Plus, you’re talking about expected (hoped for) future gains, as opposed to gains you can realize now. Maybe the inability to grasp this is related to 100% of Chinese being gambling addicts. But obviously, certain utility now is worth more than possible utility in the future because you could go to Harvard and be hit by a bus. Yeah, you could be hit by a bus at community college as well, but even if these tactics tend to make people happy in the future, you have to discount that result because it’s just a possibility. The economy could get worse and you could wind up begging to drive a bus after Harvard. You could become disfigured and never get over it. Or, you could have some windfall of cash and not need to work at a job you hate to obtain status and thus feel like you wasted your childhood preparing to do so.

I think you have to discount whatever future happiness Chua’s methods might create even more because of memories. If you have very happy, unwarped times as a child, you get to look back on them your whole life. If you postpone happiness till you are 40, you’ll be lucky to look back on happiness for half your life. And even that is offset by remembering how your mom used to call you a fat piece of garbage, or when people you know express nostalgia for “The Simpsons” and you flash back to being forced to carve perfect Bernini models out of turnips.

There are all these new books out there portraying Asian mothers as scheming, callous, overdriven people indifferent to their kids’ true interests.

Uh…

Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The reason for this is a little unclear…

Well, don’t let that stop you. But for the purposes of an editorial, you probably want to avoid stances like, “nobody can really think of a good justification for my position, but it is supported by some fortune cookie garbage that you’d never accept in any other context.

…but it’s probably a combination of Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and done so much for their children. (And it’s true that Chinese mothers get in the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training, interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying them and making them proud.

Wonderful. If you think I’m stretching the totalitarian thing a bit thin, here we have Amy choosing to say that she spies on her kids. And not only that, spying on them is a sacrifice on the part of the authority. The subjects should be grateful that Kim Mom Il is so magnanimous with her resources as to use them for spying on the subjects to facilitate their own personal betterment towards their end purpose: glorifying Kim Mom Il!

Here’s a story in favor of coercion, Chinese-style. Lulu was about 7, still playing two instruments, and working on a piano piece called “The Little White Donkey” by the French composer Jacques Ibert. The piece is really cute—you can just imagine a little donkey ambling along a country road with its master—but it’s also incredibly difficult for young players because the two hands have to keep schizophrenically different rhythms.

You’ve probably read the original article already and if you haven’t you can probably guess where it is going. Chua electrocutes her daughter’s eyeballs until she can play the piece without mistakes. Then, when the daughter is asleep, Chua goes into her room and, while reading through her diary and changing any negative mentions of Tiger Mom to positive ones, gently slides the blade of a knife across the girl’s throat whispering, “you only live because I allow it,” over and over again with different intonations. Also, I was a taught when I was a kid that this use of ’schizophrenic’ should be avoided because it’s based on a misunderstanding of what schizophrenia is and therefore makes you sound ignorant.

Anyway, here is how the the readers of the Wall Street Journal responded in poll form.

I hate to make too much of an internet poll asking a loaded question, particularly as I hate internet polls and would abolish them from my own totalitarian state. But the appeal of this position to WSJ readers and other “conservatives” hints at the authoritarian heart beneath their superficial love of “liberty,” “freedom” and “individualism.” I realize that children of parents do not hold the same status of citizens of a country, but there should be some consistency between the your views on those relationships. If you really have a fondness for freedom and individualism, it doesn’t make sense that you’d favor blanket censorship, the suffocation of individuality and free will and blind allegiance to authority for children and teens. Like, if you are a Black Panther, you don’t have your kids on a strict diet of Pat Boone and until they are 18 and then suddenly introduce them to James Brown. And I’d raise the same criticism of the WSJ for running the article. It’s pretty amazing that this whole crew can so quickly embrace Chinese authoritarianism, even when represented to a cartoonish extreme. Maybe it’s nostalgia, but I can’t imagine the WSJ of the past running, “Weak American Piglets Will Be Crushed By Soviet Superiority,” by Nikolai Volkoff. Maybe they’ll be celebrating the virtues of command economies as extolled by an animated monkey by the end of the decade.

Outside of the WSJ, the article triggered great controversy and everybody weighed in. I considered doing a hackwatch during the 12 pages of discussion of the article on our forum, much of which I have plagiarized here. One reason I didn’t is that, while the article roped me in, I had some sense of that being its goal. And, sure enough in the first wave of commentary and publicity, cracks began to appear in the facade of the article, so by waiting till now to write this, I can act superior to even more people. In this article, Chua discusses how she was happy to be the bad guy while her husband took their daughters to Yankee games and such. Well wait. If it was true that her girls were not allowed any TV, how did they know what the hell was happening at the Yankee games? I mean, yes you can contrive some answer about them listening to games on the radio and reading player biographies, but that doesn’t really mesh. Then, on “The Colbert Report,” Chua claimed that her husband was as strict as she was. What? Oh, I get it. These are just lies. Sometimes I still forget that book and newspaper publishers have no responsibility publish people who put forward the truth as they see it.

For the purposes of the Colbert appearance, Chua tried to convey herself as a relaxed person with a healthy sense of humor. She was clearly lying, however, when expressing surprise that anyone would see the article or the book it was excerpted from as offering advice on raising children and she couldn’t hide her domineering nature. And that’s when it became evident that she was working from Ann Coulter’s playbook. 1) Spout a bunch of sadistic, authoritarian garbage riddled with lies and bound to create controversy. 2) Make public appearances in which you tell whichever story is convenient at the time, disregarding both actual facts and the false claims you made in your book. 3) When before the appropriate audience, shift into an affable character who enjoys a good laugh and who doesn’t understand why all the uptight fuddy duddies were upset when you did step one. And, sickeningly, it works. No matter how thoroughly you are documented as a liar (this is one article; if the book takes off,there will be many more cracks), you’ll be getting respectful treatment all over the media if you pull off the plan well. If Pinochet had been savvy enough to go on “Real Time” with a whoopi cushion, something that show would have happily accommodated, 85% of the 4% of the American population who knew who he was would have declared all forgiven.

As a woman, a mother and a model minority, Chua is even more invincible, enjoying a force field of political correctness that shields from both the left and right. The initial piece successfully trolled every blog in the world, 100% of which used some variation of, “I’m not judging Chua. Her methods worked for her and I’m sure she is a great mom who loves her kids but…” Right up to the New York Times, articles sprouted up everywhere, carefully tiptoeing around calling her out in plain terms. Even though the article made ridiculous, extremist claims, some of which Chua only dreamed up to create attention, nearly all commentators had to frame their criticisms with deference.

Here are some phrases from the various writers in the NYT discussion of “extreme parenting,” that Chua’s piece inspired.

“However, laissez-faire parenting can be too laid back and detrimental to children.” No shit? When you speak about rape, do you feel compelled to point out that extreme repression of sexual urges can be bad too? Maybe rapists have a point.

“That said, a pragmatic philosophy offers some much-needed correctives to a culture of parenting where our children’s every random scribble and shoe box diorama is lauded as pure genius, where trophies are awarded simply for showing up.” And again. It’s ironic that these people feel compelled to make such remarks. Isn’t mandatory prefacing of criticizing one extreme by saying you don’t support the other extreme either in the same vein as everyone gets a trophy day? Amy Chua is vile and it’s OK to just fucking say so. Also, I’m not sure that this super-hippie parenting is as prevalent as everyone seems to believe. I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood over the hill from Malibu and I don’t remember seeing it much. One guy had a mom who would provide us with beer, but she was European. It seems to me that commentators dig up anecdotes of murdering hockey dads and crazy stage moms one day and of youth soccer games without score keeping the next day, depending on which one they need at the time.

“It’s true that you don’t enjoy something until you’ve mastered it and practice makes perfect.” Neither of these things are true. Look, even if you aren’t talking about water slides and mindless fun, this whole line of reasoning is loony. What percentage of people who enjoy cooking are master chefs? And if you think you’ve mastered philosophy, you are almost certainly insane. Is it impossible for women to enjoy playing team sports? You know, because they are terrible at all of them.

“Putting aside the debate about stereotypes – be they about Chinese, women, or other groups – which Amy Chua’s essay has plenty, parents everywhere are always looking for tips to help their children thrive.” The guy who wrote the subtitles for NES games in the 90’s weighs in on the matter.

And though I am basically a Chomskybot, I do have a basic respect for the WSJ. At least, I thought it was pretty good ten years ago. But it still seems odd that I am the only one disgusted to see them pass of a PR stunt for a book launch as an editorial and then for the NYT to latch on for the purposes of offering a milquetoast, counter-non-perspective. I know that the state of journalistic integrity is vaporous at best. I know the WSJ and NYT are just arms of a media profit machine. And I already hated every blog but detroitblog.org and the ones where they make fun of sports announcers. I know that it’s vastly more important to get as many heaving mongoloids as possible to follow you on twitter than to see that one of the most venerable papers in the world at least goes through the motions of attempting to present actual points of view, rather than helping to turn the crazy dreams of Eric Cartman into book sales. It still sucks.
__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Last edited by Plan9; 02-26-2011 at 12:22 AM..
Plan9 is offline  
 

Tags
chinese, mothers, superior


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:04 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360