Dear Canadians: You are no longer welcome at TFP - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

The_Jazz · 01-12-2011, 01:41 PM

Gym Guards Beat Man To Pulp When He Tried To Cancel - The Consumerist

My mind has been blown. All my preconceived notions about Canadians have been crushed.

"Canada, it's like New Jersey only with flannel".

kramus · 01-12-2011, 01:48 PM

Not sure how the OP will play out. But I'm sure that TFP will remain a vibrant and interesting part of the interweb mix even sans les Canadiens. C'est la vie.

But Tully, I swear that this tipping business is not a universal blind spot in the Kanuckistani population. Though I'll readily admit to not generally dropping change into the paper cups found at fast food chain joints I'll occasionally do so. And more so when seasonally correct. I do find that when in Chinatown greasy spoons here in Toronto dining w my SO and her Chinese kin I tip at about 50% of my normal rate simply because they express horror at the going rate. Regular restaurants are too easy to calculate to not do it. I mean 10% of a bill plus half of 10% is not even calculating in order to get your 15%. And with the chip card credit card machine that offers an automatic % calculator for the mathematically challenged there is just no excuse anywhere. If you are caught short you shouldn't be eating out.

That hullabaloo in your Mexican town sounds just too bizarre. I mean really - a $140 bill plus tip for 30 people and there was a problem? It needed someone to stand up, declare the total and the average divvy, and offer to grab a couple of shots of tequila, go outside, and arm wrestle anyone who wanted to quibble over tossing in their 5 bucks. How hard would it be for someone to do that, dropping a $20 themselves, and loudly declare any overage a thank you to the staff for putting up with the hassle of such a large group of gringo Anglos? FFS, 5 or 6 bucks each without a whimper please. That story is just so weird.

I don't have anything to say about the hockey experience you had. I'll personally get caught up in a national moment such as the Olympics, but the rest of hockey life tends to happen in a world that really doesn't intersect with mine in any meaningful way. I'd ban the impolite drinktards who spoiled your hospitality myself, and I'm Canadian born and bred.

Tully Mars · 01-12-2011, 02:27 PM

Well I tried to make it clear in my rant it's not every Canadian.. but it certainly is over half. And yes it was bizarre.

People here, people who live here anyway, get used to somethings being freakishly inexpensive. I took a lady out to a movie and dinner in Merida Saturday night. The movie theater we sat in is known as a "VIP" room. All the seats are about like a leather recliner you might have in your home and they electronically recline. There is a small table next to your seat and if you choose a waiter will bring you anything from beer, a mixed drink or even dinner. After the movie we went to an Italian restaurant had an nice meal and drinks. I never added it up but I'd guess the evening costs me less then $75. I know the movie tickets are $7 ea.

Anyway you end up with everyone, US, Canadians and even some Europeans debating or at times trying to barter down the cost of things that most people wouldn't even think about. For example trash here is picked up by independent guys who drive around in crappy pick-ups. You place you garbage bag in front of your house and they'll stop and yell at you to come pay them, you pay they take away your trash. Last summer my maid placed my bag out front one morning, later while I was floating around the pool I heard the garbage guy yelling. I grabbed 10 pesos, the normal fee, and went to pay the guy. He looked at the 10 peso coin and said "no, it's 14 pesos." We had a little back and forth and after a few moments I realized I'm arguing, in the hot sun with a guy over what amounts to 30 cents. I walked over to my truck and grabbed 5 more pesos and gave it to the man and said thanks. I've been paying that same guy 15 pesos ever since, he picks up my trash whether I'm here or not and he knows I'll always pay him if i missed him. Why was I debating about .30 cents? I have no freaking clue.

I will say one other thing back on the topic of Canadians and the "check." While it's true the majority of Canadians will not tip they also want to pay they share, exactly their share. The older they are the more likely this is to be true. I can not tell you the number of times I've been having breakfast somewhere and a Canadian will sit down, start talking and order coffee or juice. Most places I eat the coffee or juice is a 4-6 peso item. I don't think one has ever left without insisting on paying for their share. it's usually something like "I owe for the coffee, it's 5 pesos" "I got it they'll just add it to my check." "No, no I ordered it I'll pay for it. I only have a 10 peso coin, do you have change?" I always think "sure I've got a 5 peso coin or whatever, wouldn't want you walking away from that .38 cents you owe." Of course I'm the guy who, last summer, debated over 4 peso in the hot sun for several minutes... so what do I know?

Charlatan · 01-12-2011, 04:14 PM

Regarding the hockey nonsense... I have always been uncomfortable around folk that yell at the television. I can get excited over a game but, really, the ref can't hear you, so shut up about it already.

Canadians as a group may be "practically perfect in every way" but we, like most nations, have our odd traits.

silent_jay · 01-12-2011, 04:54 PM

LordEden · 01-12-2011, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

So, a columnist in Buffalo is disillusioned by us Canucks... What I don't get is why Americans get hung up on tipping so much. I find the pre-occupation to be bit obsessive.

When you make $2.13 an HOUR (Like cinnamongirl makes) and your entire 40 an hour a week check comes out to crap, then getting a tip makes a hell of a difference.

I'd LOVE to be able to put a sign up at the door of restaurants, "Our servers make $2.13 an HOUR, so FUCKING TIP YOU CHEAP BASTARDS."

People who don't tip, suck. Period.

*****

Sing it with me...

"Hello threadjack, my frieeeeeeeeeeeeeeenddddddddddddd...."

Tully Mars · 01-12-2011, 05:24 PM

This is where the thread gets off topic...

Well Americans (US citizens) are "practically perfect in every way" but it doesn't stop them from stopping me in the street and asking some pretty dumb ass questions. Yes, I know you're from the US I recognize that (southern, Jersey, Mid-west whatever) accent, that (NASCAR, Mets, Eagles whatever) shirt. Here's some sample answers I've recently given-

"No, I don't care what your buddies back in Omaha told you; you can not go into the pharmacy and buy (codeine, Oxycontin, or any other controlled substance.) Here in Mexico you can not buy anything without a prescription. Used to be if you wanted anti-biotics you could buy it if you knew what you needed. Since last year they changed that and you need an Rx for them now too."

"No, I don't know where you can score some (weed, blow, speed, "X," whatever.) You can likely find that at your next stop in Cozumel. But be warned- the guy selling it to you is possibly working with a cop who he's going to point you out to, the cop will then take the drugs (which are likely fake) and shake you down for every dollar you have including anything the ATM will give you. The cop will then give the drugs back to the "dealer" and they'll run the scam on the next moron."

"There is no "red light" district. This is a very small, very catholic and very conservative Mexican fishing village. If you care to miss your cruise ship out of here there are a few brothels in Merida. They open around 10pm and close at dawn. They are rather well known for taking in gringos and with the help of the police separating them large amounts of cash, like in the 1000's of dollars. There are no Donkeys show etc here, this is not TJ and it's not 1975."

"No, the waitress is not going give you a blow job if you tip her big or offer to pay her for it. Ask her, if she understands your question, it's very likely her father, husband and all her brothers will be here shortly to help you find your way back to the ship."

"Yes, you can eat here. No, the food will not kill you."

Other then answer stupid questions from my fellow US citizens I get to hear such great comments as-

"Hey this would be a nice place if it didn't have all these Mexicans around." Hey, shit for brains, you're in Mexico... probably going to be Mexicans here.

Or the middle age, obviously southern man, who held up a large handful of peso notes once asked his lady friend/wife(?) "Wonder how much this is in real money?" Moron, that is "real money" if you'd like I'll take it off your hands.

Most people are fine but it's that 10-20% that stand out by acting like complete nimrods. Sometimes I just hang my head and wish most US citizens would stay within 100 miles of their homes. Most of the time I just look at my back door and if the cruise ship is in town I avoid the pier area.

Sorry should have started a new thread.

silent_jay · 01-12-2011, 05:30 PM

Tully Mars · 01-12-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordEden

When you make $2.13 an HOUR (Like cinnamongirl makes) and your entire 40 an hour a week check comes out to crap, then getting a tip makes a hell of a difference.

I'd LOVE to be able to put a sign up at the door of restaurants, "Our servers make $2.13 an HOUR, so FUCKING TIP YOU CHEAP BASTARDS."

People who don't tip, suck. Period.

*****

Sing it with me...

"Hello threadjack, my frieeeeeeeeeeeeeeenddddddddddddd...."

Yea, I don't get the no tipping thing. Especially when someone knows that's the standard custom. Maybe folks in Canada get paid working in food service, no idea. Here and in the states, no tip, no income. Like I said earlier... want to dine out and not tip? Dine in a place where that's the custom.. like Canada. Basically if you don't want to tip, stay home.

---------- Post added at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

I LOVE how it's the customers faults the servers get paid shit, maybe the sign should read 'WE'RE CHEAP FUCKS, WE PAY OUT SERVERS $2.13 AN HOUR, PLEASE TIP THEM SO WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY THEM MORE'.

Look to the real problem, the wages paid, not that the customers are 'cheap bastards', people work hard for their money, and as I said before, don't like the tip someone leaves, speak up, I'm sure they'll gladly take the tip back and you can get sweet fuck all.

Or the alternate solution is always...........find a better job.

/end threadjack

Look you want to stay home and not tip, fine. Seems to be the standard custom. A lot of places don't work, have never worked the way you're suggesting. I would not go to another country and disregard a custom such as this anymore then I would travel to the Middle East and start asking people to look at the bottom of my feet or shake my left hand.

When you travel it is usually standard to adhere to the customs of the places you travel, not demand the visited country change to your customs.

silent_jay · 01-12-2011, 05:53 PM

Tully Mars · 01-12-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

Look it's not like Canadians don't tip as you seem to be trying to insinuate, and it's not a 'custom' here to not tip as you seem to be imagining, or somehow got in your head, we just don't tip as much as some may like us to tip, 15% seems to be the norm, but the amount of the tip is up to the customer, that's the reality of the situation, want it to be up to the server, make sure customers know that beforehand, or the alternative, find a better job.

I do not have data on the subject but from what I've seen of the Canadians around here less then 50% of them tip 15%. The rest tip more like 1.5% or not at all. You come here and tip 15% I'd have no problem with that and you'd probably be fine eating in the restaurant if you wanted to return.

silent_jay · 01-12-2011, 06:03 PM

Tully Mars · 01-12-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

So then, you're basing your entire view on this 'custom' of Canadians not tipping period, on your little slice of the world, that's like me basing my opinion of all Americans of the stupid shit that comes out of Sarah Palin's mouth.

Also, for you to get that '50% of them tip 15%' you'd have to see each and every Canadian there eating out at a restaurant, watch how much their bill is, watch how much they leave for a tip, forgive me if I think you are flawed in your numbers.

As I said before, a tip is up to the customer, want to leave it up to the server or the establishment, tell customer that a certain percentage is required as a gratuity, although, just the word gratuity alone should say what it is 'A tip (also called a gratuity) is a voluntary extra payment made to certain service sector workers in addition to the advertised price of the transaction.'

I said before I'm simply basing my opinion on what I see here. I never once said "all Canadians," not once. In fact I went out of my way to say it's not all. As for my math, feel free to come down and check out the area out yourself. I think after asking around and talking to people you probably find I'm being generous in my math. It's likely more then 10-20% of US citizens who come down here and make fools of themselves too. I ask people what they see, friends, waiters and yes Canadians. The night I had dinner with 30 or so Canadians the last guy with the check made sure there was a 7 peso tip on a $140 USD check. I asked him, in a polite way, "WTF?" His answer was that was a perfectly fine tip. I drove another guy to the airport one afternoon to pick up his wife. He had a couple drinks and a hamburger, the bill came to over 20 USD, his tip was less then a one dollar. This isn't a one time here and there thing. I see it nearly every time. I think part of it here is (and I said this before) people get used to things being really cheap, that's just the way it is here. I know people who let their maid go because she wanted a 3 dollar a day raise. They're from Georgia (US, not Russia) and they later wished they hadn't let her go, finding a good replacement wasn't easy.

LordEden · 01-12-2011, 06:31 PM

It's not about Canadians or Americans (Which a ton of americans don't tip, I've seen it and it sucks too) not tipping, it's about NOT FUCKING TIPPING.

Yes, the system is fucked up.

Yes, it's not your "fault" it's fucked up.

No, you don't *have* to tip. (North Carolina is not a "Right to tip" state which means that it isn't against the law to be cheap fucking bastards.)

You know what? You could be a decent human being and give FIVE FUCKING DOLLARS to someone that just spent an hour catering to your every need.

You don't have $5 bucks to give to the waitron that waited (I'm excluding bad servers)? Don't Eat Out.

Go get something out of a fast food window. Don't come into a restaurant, order $50 worth of drinks and food, spend an hour in there and give the waitron a $1.

You sir (As the bad tipper), SUCK. You basically said to another human being, "You are below me and I have the ability to help you out, but I'm not going to. I am better than you and because I don't have to work your job, I am going to shit all over you with a big smile on my face. If you EVEN think of giving me some lip over this, I will complain to your manager and have you fired for thinking you are even close to being as important as myself. Fuck you, I AM BETTER THAN YOU IN ALL WAYS."

American, Canadian, whatever. You don't tip, you suck.

settie · 01-12-2011, 10:18 PM

iiiiiiiiiii

Charlatan · 01-12-2011, 11:45 PM

Settie, waiters don't get a minimum wage of $10.25/hour. They get $8.90/hour. That's what the law says.

The_Jazz · 01-13-2011, 06:06 AM

Jeez. apparently along with getting rid of the Canadians, we're going to have to get rid of the Mexicans too. Maybe even the Signaporans. While we're at it, I hate New Yorkers, so we'll get rid of those. And those crazies out on the West Coast. And don't get me started on those Southerners.

Tell you what, let's get rid of all the non-Chicagoans. And by that I mean get rid of the suburbanites too. Everybody else sucks.

Quote:

Navin R. Johnson: Well I'm gonna to go then! And I don't need any of this. I don't need this stuff, and I don't need *you*. I don't need anything. Except this.
[picks up an ashtray]
Navin R. Johnson: And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this ashtray... And this paddle game. - The ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need... And this remote control. - The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need... And these matches. - The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control, and the paddle ball... And this lamp. - The ashtray, this paddle game, and the remote control, and the lamp, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The paddle game and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches for sure. Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.
[walking outside]
Navin R. Johnson: The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, and this magazine, and the chair.
Navin R. Johnson: [outside now] And I don't need one other thing, except my dog.
[dog growls at him]
Navin R. Johnson: I don't need my dog.

Are you my dog or are you my ashtray?

Tully Mars · 01-13-2011, 06:15 AM

Well I only hate two kinds of people.. Racists and Italians.

Leto · 01-13-2011, 06:30 AM

lol, I see that the tipping topic is dear to American's hearts. Well, there seems to be a reason for that (i guess, with the paltry wage identified by Eden - unbelievable really) but the typical practice for most people from around here (Toronto) is an even 15%. I haven't heard of anybody doing less. Although the custom is that the tip % is calculated on the PRE-TAX amount on the cheque. The automated ATM devices used by most restaurants now calculated the pre-set 15% on the taxes in amount. But I don't quibble over a couple of bucks.

So, the Taxes/Hockey convergence seems to be carried on in this additional column related to the Buffalo Junior Hockey tournament:

Kelly: An unfortunate world junior misunderstanding - thestar.com

An unfortunate world junior misunderstanding

Buffalo, before this thing gets all War of 1812, let’s sit down and have a little talk.

You were good enough to host the World Juniors. We were good enough to fill the seats.

Emotions ran high. Mainly, us really caring and you not really getting why we cared so much, but shrugging your shoulders and climbing on for the ride.

Everybody had a few drinks. Somebody said something to somebody else that everyone else heard about. And suddenly a lot of feelings were hurt.

Afterward, one of you said some mean things about us.

We (i.e., I) said some things back.

They republished the column I wrote about the whole mess in The Buffalo News on Wednesday morning.

My email inbox started to fill up with slights against my intelligence, manliness and use of the letter ‘u’ in words like ‘neighbours.’ That last one tipped me off that this wasn’t the usual daily batch of hate mail.

“You are a total arrogant (blank) (blank) and I mean that in the most hurtful way,” began one of my favourites. “(P)lease burn down the Peace Bridge and never come back here.”

Isn’t the Peace Bridge made of steel? So how would we … never mind.

There was a lot more in the (blank)-ety (blank)-ing vein. In my daytimer, right under ‘2007 New Year’s resolutions’, I made a special note: ‘Find a better class of enemy’.

There were other irritated, though less expletive, notes.

Many of these had a pair of themes. First, ‘We don’t want to fight, but …’. And second, ‘Why don’t Canadians tip?’

Is this really a big issue that no one told me about? Canada, are you going into foreign countries and counting out your nickels after a four-course meal? Well then, stop that. It’s embarrassing for the rest of us.

Besides hockey, the one thing we get to lord over the Americans right now is our steroidally impressive economy. How are they going to know how flush we are if we don’t go down there and spread cash around like we’re running for office?

Some people mentioned the chanting of “U.S.A. sucks” by Canadian fans, though they were willing to give us the benefit of the doubt.

“I feel that a few a------- in the crowd do not represent the entire group, no matter where you are,” wrote Tom Stankowski. I believe he’s quoting the official motto of all family reunions right there.

And though we’re the a------- he’s referring to, I’m going to try to take Tom’s note in the Gandhi-esque spirit I hope it was meant.

“We loved having raucous Canadians in town for the tournament. But after a couple of weeks of it, we kind of loved it when the tournament was over, too,” wrote Blair Webster. “That doesn’t mean we love you less than we did.”

Which is, you will agree, reasonable and sort of flattering.

After an a.m. deluge of ill will, there was a turning of the tide by midday.

A third sort of email began to flood in.

This was a steady series of without-reservation apologies for any offence caused and appeals to cross-border amity.

“As a resident of Buffalo, I nominate you to receive the ‘Thank You’ that Western New York wants to give to you and your fellow Canadians,” David Brand wrote.

Everybody, listen up. Dave says ‘Thank you’. He asked me to tell you that.

There was a lot more like that, all of it earnest and touching. Another writer signed off with, “Your Friend.”

Buffalo, for a minute there, it looked like things were going to go off. Kind of like when you were a kid and you were play-wrestling with your brother, and someone accidentally got bopped hard in the nose. For a moment, you stop and stare at each other, trying to decide if a pretend-fight is going to become the real thing.

We just had that moment, Buffalo. I think we’ve decided that we know each other too well to let a few angry words ruin a long friendship.

silent_jay · 01-13-2011, 09:27 AM

The_Jazz · 01-13-2011, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

This is why the World Junior's should never be held in a border city again, Americans don't buy tickets, Canadians do, Canadians fill the seats, flood the local economy with cash, make it look like the US city can hold a successful event, then some proceed to piss and moan over every little trivial thing going.

Dude, that's just Buffalo and everyone knows Buffalo sucks. Bring your little tournament to a place like Chicago, Detroit, Boston or New York that people actually want to go to (ok not Detroit, but they do know a thing or two about hockey there), and you'd probably find more Americans showing up.

Even Canadians don't want to go to Buffalo. That's pretty telling. Now go find a Mountie to get me a Molson, eh?

silent_jay · 01-13-2011, 09:48 AM

Tully Mars · 01-13-2011, 09:58 AM

Do you tip Mounties? I only ask because here sometimes you tip the police.

Leto · 01-13-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

... Now go find a Mountie to get me a Molson, eh?

Okay, Here's your Mountie..

here comes your Molson's

It's in the bottle:

It's being served up to you..

You want a Canadien to keep you company with your Molson Canadian?

Oops, Halak's not a Canadien anymore. And he isn't even Canadian.

would you rather drink your Molson with Lanny McDonald?

Sure you would!

Or with a Canadian girl?

Ourcrazymodern? · 01-14-2011, 02:03 PM

Target's incoming!!!!!

blahblah454 · 01-14-2011, 02:48 PM

Hooray Canada!!

As a Canadian I have to say that Molson is some of the worst beer I have ever had. However, Canada as a whole does have some delicious beers.

uncle phil · 01-14-2011, 04:04 PM

brador.jpg

best canadian beer i ever drank, and i've pissed out a lot of labatts blue...

uncle phil · 01-16-2011, 10:23 AM

I just got off the phone with a friend in North Dakota near the Canadian border. He said that since early today the snow has been nearly waist high and is still falling. The temperature is way below zero and the north wind is increasing to near gale forces. His wife has done nothing but look through the kitchen window and just stare. He says that if it gets much worse, he may have to let her in...

BadNick · 01-16-2011, 11:08 AM

As a Bi-Centennial celebration of the War of 1812, the Canadians should organize and plan a War of 2012 ...as if they aren't already.

james t kirk · 01-16-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I live in a town in Mexico that has a somewhat large Canadian population. Rumor has it a couple Canadians found this place 30 yrs ago and kept their mouth shut about it. This was probably smart on their part. I have a lot of Canadian friends. For the most part they are great group down here and I usually like hanging out with them. Usually. I say usually because just like any other culture they have their own idiosyncrasies. Some are appealing, some not so much. In the same way you can normally pick out the obnoxious American in any airport lounge within mere seconds and inviting a Mexican over to your house for a drink and be an all night experience (and he may get on the phone and invite his whole family to join in on the party) like it or not- some Canadians have habits I find annoying.

For example- going out to dinner with a large group of Canadians can be less then enjoyable. The last time (and I do mean the last time) I went out with a group of Canadians, they were approx. 30 of us and I was one of two Americans in the group. I believe each Canadian requested a separate check. This was fun to watch because most refuse to learn any Spanish and hence did not speak enough to make their intentions clear to the waiter. A lot of the Canadians have taken the attitude of "we're spending a lot of money here, our money keeps this town a float… least "they' could do is learn to speak English." First you're out numbered 500-1, your money may add to the economy but you're not keeping the town running. Second you're in their country and you don't think learning their language might make more sense? Anyway we ordered and, give or take, about 1/2 of the diners decided to try to order items not on the menu. Again the lack of Spanish did not help. Here it's almost odd to find a restaurant that actually has all the items listed on the menu available. Items not on the menu? Umm, no. You're in a small Mexican beach town if you do not like the local food you should either eat at home or drive into Merida, a much larger city, where you can find anything from Sushi to decent Italian. Announcing to the table/restaurant "I hate Mexican food, looks like someone in the kitchen already ate it for lunch and now they're trying to serve it to me" Is not polite and there is a pretty good chance someone will understand your words. When your food does arrive I will not trade plates with you.

When the check arrived it was all on one ticket, what a shock! 30 people with drinks came to about 140 USD, really not bad. I know my meal, with drink, was $4. Most of the Canadians went into panic mode. "Who had what?" "Who owes what?" "How the heck are we supposed to figure this out?" "No kidding, it's all in Spanish (again, big shock!)" Someone, a Canadian, suggested we just divide the bill evenly. That was fine with me but was met with death stares from several people. After 20mins of "what do we do? What do we do?" It was decided to pass the check around the table and each person put in the amount they owed. That led to another 30mins of people requesting change for larger notes so they could pay exactly what they owed. The end result was a huge pile of small bills and a shit load of change. The tray the check arrived on had to be exchanged for a dinner plate and likely weighed about 5lbs. I was second to last and I put in roughly $8 for my meal plus tip. I figured if I paid double it might help offset anyone who short changed on the tip. The last guy to pay was sitting to my left and I noticed, after counting through all the cash for 15mins. And looking at the check he put in $2 for he and his wife's meals and drinks. I asked if it was covered and he assured me it was- complete with tip! I noticed the waiter counting it out and I waited to see his reaction. It did not look good. I went up and asked if it was all accounted for and was told "yes the meal is paid for?" "And the tip?' The man turned, faced me and threw his arms up stating "7 pesos, 7 pesos!" By this time the only other American there had joined me and asked if there was a problem. I told him the tip came out to 7 pesos. We each put in another $15-17 (200 pesos.) I returned to the table and the guy who had the check last asked me if there was some problem. I told him the tip only came out to 7 pesos. He said "yeah, I know I counted to make sure there was a tip." "And you thought on $140 USD check 7 peso was a reasonable tip?" "Really? 7 pesos?" "Yeah, pesos are like dollars to these people." Umm, no dollars are like dollars to these people and the wait staff in most restaurants work solely for tips. And seriously even if pesos were like dollars... $7 on a $140? Are you fucking stupid or insane? People don’t normally tip in Canada, fine I get that. But you’re not in Canada, here the wait staff depends on tips to feed their family. You want to dine out and not tip, move to a country where that is the culture… you know like Canada.

I have list in my head of Canadians I will dine out with but its way less than half of those who live here. Attend a party with them, sure, great. Enjoy a movie out with them, absolutely. Dinner out? At a restaurant? In public?… Yeah that’s not happening… never again. Rather have my balls pounded flat with a wooden mallet. I think it would be less painful and over quicker.

Another thing I will no longer do is invite Canadians over to watch hockey games. I don’t care if I do have one of the few systems that can get the games. Buy your own system; I’ll install it for free. I’ve just had one too many drunken Canadians yell stuff like “in your face, in your fucking face!” At me, in my house while eating my food and drinking my booze in regards to a game I really don’t understand, care to watch or even really like.

There are a lot of things I do enjoy about my Canadian neighbors down here but I’ve had way too many of the above two incidents to enjoy everything about all of them.

Now someone needs to starts a why Americans should either stay home or learn some culture prior to traveling thread. I could write three times the rant I just wrote on Canadians on the subject of dumbass Americans and the stupid fucking things they do. Maybe I’ll start that thread myself after lunch.

Interestingly enough, I do speak French. Not well, but well enough to get by. I wasn't born into a francophone house, and I was born and raised and educated in Hamilton. There are about 3 people in Hamilton who speak French. Italian? Well, that's about 1 in 3. But French? Nadda. So I took it in HS. Didn't use it much for a long time but in 99 started doing work for a client based in Quebec.

So I went back to school at age 35 and took a French course at U of T. Then to the Alliance Francais downtown (several courses), but the problem there was that the course was too "loosie goosie", so then I found Humber College - which has been the perfect fit. I'm now up the advanced level and can easily get my point accross, understand about 80 percent of what I read, struggle with the written.

Anyway, I've been doing that at my age (now mid 40's). Learning French. Wonder how many Americans set out at age 35 to learn a new language??

All that aside, I would never use the "they should learn to speak English" line. I find that insulting.

Interestingly though, when I was in Mexico 2 years ago, I found myself speaking French to the locals. It's funny, don't know why, but I wasn't the only one. (I was with a group of people, many of whom were bilingual Canadians who speak French and English. They'd say the same thing, "yeah, for some reason, the French comes out" Which is absurd.

Anyway, in my line of work - Engineer - primarily in Eastern Canada. I meet many people who are 100% bilingual. They can switch from French to English like it was like changing a pair of gloves. My former boss was an Anglo who spoke perfect learned French, and our client was a Franco who spoke almost perfect learned English. The Anglo would speak French and the Franco would speak English (when they were talking to each other.)

I don't know any Americans who are bilingual. None. Not one. And I work with lots. You'd be amazed how many Americans come into Quebec and can't get their heads around that Quebecers speak French. (Though the truth is that most if not all of the older ones speak English and the younger ones (teens and 20's all speak English too - just that one generation of 30 to 50's don't speak English. When the Americans "expect" that the Quebecers speak English, the Quebecers won't do it. But try, just TRY to speak French and they'll love you.)

As to the separate cheques thing......

I've sometimes been in similar situations. I have a few rules.

First, I'll always just split the bill equally by head, regardless of who orders what, with the one exception - if someone just orders a drink, they can throw in what they feel they owe.

Second, if someone makes a pig of themselves, or orders a bottle of $500.00 wine for himself - I expect him to pay the premium cost associated with his over the top order.

Other than that - 10 or 20 bucks isn't going to make or break my life.

But I have been in situations where people try figuring out what they owe exactly as you describe and it's brutal. They always forget the correct cost, or what they ordered, or TAX (that's convenient to forget) or tip.

I'm stereotyping, but I find of all my horror show experiences like the above - they always involve teachers. Don't know what it is, I'm just sitting here and thing of 2 in particular.

---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordEden

When you make $2.13 an HOUR (Like cinnamongirl makes) and your entire 40 an hour a week check comes out to crap, then getting a tip makes a hell of a difference.

I'd LOVE to be able to put a sign up at the door of restaurants, "Our servers make $2.13 an HOUR, so FUCKING TIP YOU CHEAP BASTARDS."

People who don't tip, suck. Period.

*****

Sing it with me...

"Hello threadjack, my frieeeeeeeeeeeeeeenddddddddddddd...."

See that's the difference.

In Toronto, in fact all of Ontario - wait staff gets minimum wage and minimum wage is (I think) 10 bucks an hour.

So a 15% tip on top of 10 bucks an hour is usuualy going to be better than 20% on top of 2 bucks an hour.

Tully Mars · 01-16-2011, 01:29 PM

Well I'm 47 and a US citizen and I'm working on leaning Spanish. I've found it to be a show process but things have improved since Lord Eden was here and left a copy of Language software for me. Prior to that my teacher was a 73 yr old French Canadian lady. I have no idea why it's taken me so long. Could me my fairly serious dyslexia, or maybe I'm just a slow learner. Whatever it's taken me a long time. But I would never expect to go to another country and have them learn English for me.

As for tipping I'm pretty much done beating that dead horse but I will add here it's even worse. On cruise day the restaurants by the pier charge waiters rental on tables. Many places in Merida to not pay their wait staff anything. No tip=no income. As for "find a better job"... here? Good luck with that.

lisalisa1 · 01-27-2011, 02:15 PM

You mean I have to go?

I'm staying.

01-12-2011, 01:41 PM	#81 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Gym Guards Beat Man To Pulp When He Tried To Cancel - The Consumerist My mind has been blown. All my preconceived notions about Canadians have been crushed. "Canada, it's like New Jersey only with flannel". __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

01-12-2011, 01:48 PM	#82 (permalink)
kramus loving the curves Location: my Lady's manor	Not sure how the OP will play out. But I'm sure that TFP will remain a vibrant and interesting part of the interweb mix even sans les Canadiens. C'est la vie. But Tully, I swear that this tipping business is not a universal blind spot in the Kanuckistani population. Though I'll readily admit to not generally dropping change into the paper cups found at fast food chain joints I'll occasionally do so. And more so when seasonally correct. I do find that when in Chinatown greasy spoons here in Toronto dining w my SO and her Chinese kin I tip at about 50% of my normal rate simply because they express horror at the going rate. Regular restaurants are too easy to calculate to not do it. I mean 10% of a bill plus half of 10% is not even calculating in order to get your 15%. And with the chip card credit card machine that offers an automatic % calculator for the mathematically challenged there is just no excuse anywhere. If you are caught short you shouldn't be eating out. That hullabaloo in your Mexican town sounds just too bizarre. I mean really - a $140 bill plus tip for 30 people and there was a problem? It needed someone to stand up, declare the total and the average divvy, and offer to grab a couple of shots of tequila, go outside, and arm wrestle anyone who wanted to quibble over tossing in their 5 bucks. How hard would it be for someone to do that, dropping a $20 themselves, and loudly declare any overage a thank you to the staff for putting up with the hassle of such a large group of gringo Anglos? FFS, 5 or 6 bucks each without a whimper please. That story is just so weird. I don't have anything to say about the hockey experience you had. I'll personally get caught up in a national moment such as the Olympics, but the rest of hockey life tends to happen in a world that really doesn't intersect with mine in any meaningful way. I'd ban the impolite drinktards who spoiled your hospitality myself, and I'm Canadian born and bred. __________________ And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ... I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

01-12-2011, 02:27 PM	#83 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Well I tried to make it clear in my rant it's not every Canadian.. but it certainly is over half. And yes it was bizarre. People here, people who live here anyway, get used to somethings being freakishly inexpensive. I took a lady out to a movie and dinner in Merida Saturday night. The movie theater we sat in is known as a "VIP" room. All the seats are about like a leather recliner you might have in your home and they electronically recline. There is a small table next to your seat and if you choose a waiter will bring you anything from beer, a mixed drink or even dinner. After the movie we went to an Italian restaurant had an nice meal and drinks. I never added it up but I'd guess the evening costs me less then $75. I know the movie tickets are $7 ea. Anyway you end up with everyone, US, Canadians and even some Europeans debating or at times trying to barter down the cost of things that most people wouldn't even think about. For example trash here is picked up by independent guys who drive around in crappy pick-ups. You place you garbage bag in front of your house and they'll stop and yell at you to come pay them, you pay they take away your trash. Last summer my maid placed my bag out front one morning, later while I was floating around the pool I heard the garbage guy yelling. I grabbed 10 pesos, the normal fee, and went to pay the guy. He looked at the 10 peso coin and said "no, it's 14 pesos." We had a little back and forth and after a few moments I realized I'm arguing, in the hot sun with a guy over what amounts to 30 cents. I walked over to my truck and grabbed 5 more pesos and gave it to the man and said thanks. I've been paying that same guy 15 pesos ever since, he picks up my trash whether I'm here or not and he knows I'll always pay him if i missed him. Why was I debating about .30 cents? I have no freaking clue. I will say one other thing back on the topic of Canadians and the "check." While it's true the majority of Canadians will not tip they also want to pay they share, exactly their share. The older they are the more likely this is to be true. I can not tell you the number of times I've been having breakfast somewhere and a Canadian will sit down, start talking and order coffee or juice. Most places I eat the coffee or juice is a 4-6 peso item. I don't think one has ever left without insisting on paying for their share. it's usually something like "I owe for the coffee, it's 5 pesos" "I got it they'll just add it to my check." "No, no I ordered it I'll pay for it. I only have a 10 peso coin, do you have change?" I always think "sure I've got a 5 peso coin or whatever, wouldn't want you walking away from that .38 cents you owe." Of course I'm the guy who, last summer, debated over 4 peso in the hot sun for several minutes... so what do I know? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

01-12-2011, 04:14 PM	#84 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Regarding the hockey nonsense... I have always been uncomfortable around folk that yell at the television. I can get excited over a game but, really, the ref can't hear you, so shut up about it already. Canadians as a group may be "practically perfect in every way" but we, like most nations, have our odd traits. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-12-2011, 04:54 PM	#85 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	.. Last edited by silent_jay; 02-06-2011 at 01:04 PM..

01-12-2011, 05:24 PM	#87 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	This is where the thread gets off topic... Well Americans (US citizens) are "practically perfect in every way" but it doesn't stop them from stopping me in the street and asking some pretty dumb ass questions. Yes, I know you're from the US I recognize that (southern, Jersey, Mid-west whatever) accent, that (NASCAR, Mets, Eagles whatever) shirt. Here's some sample answers I've recently given- "No, I don't care what your buddies back in Omaha told you; you can not go into the pharmacy and buy (codeine, Oxycontin, or any other controlled substance.) Here in Mexico you can not buy anything without a prescription. Used to be if you wanted anti-biotics you could buy it if you knew what you needed. Since last year they changed that and you need an Rx for them now too." "No, I don't know where you can score some (weed, blow, speed, "X," whatever.) You can likely find that at your next stop in Cozumel. But be warned- the guy selling it to you is possibly working with a cop who he's going to point you out to, the cop will then take the drugs (which are likely fake) and shake you down for every dollar you have including anything the ATM will give you. The cop will then give the drugs back to the "dealer" and they'll run the scam on the next moron." "There is no "red light" district. This is a very small, very catholic and very conservative Mexican fishing village. If you care to miss your cruise ship out of here there are a few brothels in Merida. They open around 10pm and close at dawn. They are rather well known for taking in gringos and with the help of the police separating them large amounts of cash, like in the 1000's of dollars. There are no Donkeys show etc here, this is not TJ and it's not 1975." "No, the waitress is not going give you a blow job if you tip her big or offer to pay her for it. Ask her, if she understands your question, it's very likely her father, husband and all her brothers will be here shortly to help you find your way back to the ship." "Yes, you can eat here. No, the food will not kill you." Other then answer stupid questions from my fellow US citizens I get to hear such great comments as- "Hey this would be a nice place if it didn't have all these Mexicans around." Hey, shit for brains, you're in Mexico... probably going to be Mexicans here. Or the middle age, obviously southern man, who held up a large handful of peso notes once asked his lady friend/wife(?) "Wonder how much this is in real money?" Moron, that is "real money" if you'd like I'll take it off your hands. Most people are fine but it's that 10-20% that stand out by acting like complete nimrods. Sometimes I just hang my head and wish most US citizens would stay within 100 miles of their homes. Most of the time I just look at my back door and if the cruise ship is in town I avoid the pier area. Sorry should have started a new thread. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club Last edited by Tully Mars; 01-12-2011 at 05:27 PM..

01-12-2011, 05:30 PM	#88 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	.. Last edited by silent_jay; 02-06-2011 at 01:05 PM..

01-12-2011, 05:53 PM	#90 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	.. Last edited by silent_jay; 02-06-2011 at 01:05 PM.. Reason: added

01-12-2011, 06:03 PM	#92 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	.. Last edited by silent_jay; 02-06-2011 at 01:05 PM..

01-12-2011, 10:18 PM	#95 (permalink)
settie Junkie	iiiiiiiiiii Last edited by settie; 03-25-2016 at 05:00 AM..

01-12-2011, 11:45 PM	#96 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Settie, waiters don't get a minimum wage of $10.25/hour. They get $8.90/hour. That's what the law says. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-13-2011, 06:15 AM	#98 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Well I only hate two kinds of people.. Racists and Italians. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

01-13-2011, 06:30 AM	#99 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	lol, I see that the tipping topic is dear to American's hearts. Well, there seems to be a reason for that (i guess, with the paltry wage identified by Eden - unbelievable really) but the typical practice for most people from around here (Toronto) is an even 15%. I haven't heard of anybody doing less. Although the custom is that the tip % is calculated on the PRE-TAX amount on the cheque. The automated ATM devices used by most restaurants now calculated the pre-set 15% on the taxes in amount. But I don't quibble over a couple of bucks. So, the Taxes/Hockey convergence seems to be carried on in this additional column related to the Buffalo Junior Hockey tournament: Kelly: An unfortunate world junior misunderstanding - thestar.com An unfortunate world junior misunderstanding Buffalo, before this thing gets all War of 1812, let’s sit down and have a little talk. You were good enough to host the World Juniors. We were good enough to fill the seats. Emotions ran high. Mainly, us really caring and you not really getting why we cared so much, but shrugging your shoulders and climbing on for the ride. Everybody had a few drinks. Somebody said something to somebody else that everyone else heard about. And suddenly a lot of feelings were hurt. Afterward, one of you said some mean things about us. We (i.e., I) said some things back. They republished the column I wrote about the whole mess in The Buffalo News on Wednesday morning. My email inbox started to fill up with slights against my intelligence, manliness and use of the letter ‘u’ in words like ‘neighbours.’ That last one tipped me off that this wasn’t the usual daily batch of hate mail. “You are a total arrogant (blank) (blank) and I mean that in the most hurtful way,” began one of my favourites. “(P)lease burn down the Peace Bridge and never come back here.” Isn’t the Peace Bridge made of steel? So how would we … never mind. There was a lot more in the (blank)-ety (blank)-ing vein. In my daytimer, right under ‘2007 New Year’s resolutions’, I made a special note: ‘Find a better class of enemy’. There were other irritated, though less expletive, notes. Many of these had a pair of themes. First, ‘We don’t want to fight, but …’. And second, ‘Why don’t Canadians tip?’ Is this really a big issue that no one told me about? Canada, are you going into foreign countries and counting out your nickels after a four-course meal? Well then, stop that. It’s embarrassing for the rest of us. Besides hockey, the one thing we get to lord over the Americans right now is our steroidally impressive economy. How are they going to know how flush we are if we don’t go down there and spread cash around like we’re running for office? Some people mentioned the chanting of “U.S.A. sucks” by Canadian fans, though they were willing to give us the benefit of the doubt. “I feel that a few a------- in the crowd do not represent the entire group, no matter where you are,” wrote Tom Stankowski. I believe he’s quoting the official motto of all family reunions right there. And though we’re the a------- he’s referring to, I’m going to try to take Tom’s note in the Gandhi-esque spirit I hope it was meant. “We loved having raucous Canadians in town for the tournament. But after a couple of weeks of it, we kind of loved it when the tournament was over, too,” wrote Blair Webster. “That doesn’t mean we love you less than we did.” Which is, you will agree, reasonable and sort of flattering. After an a.m. deluge of ill will, there was a turning of the tide by midday. A third sort of email began to flood in. This was a steady series of without-reservation apologies for any offence caused and appeals to cross-border amity. “As a resident of Buffalo, I nominate you to receive the ‘Thank You’ that Western New York wants to give to you and your fellow Canadians,” David Brand wrote. Everybody, listen up. Dave says ‘Thank you’. He asked me to tell you that. There was a lot more like that, all of it earnest and touching. Another writer signed off with, “Your Friend.” Buffalo, for a minute there, it looked like things were going to go off. Kind of like when you were a kid and you were play-wrestling with your brother, and someone accidentally got bopped hard in the nose. For a moment, you stop and stare at each other, trying to decide if a pretend-fight is going to become the real thing. We just had that moment, Buffalo. I think we’ve decided that we know each other too well to let a few angry words ruin a long friendship. __________________ You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey And I never saw someone say that before You held my hand and we walked home the long way You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

01-13-2011, 09:27 AM	#100 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	.. Last edited by silent_jay; 02-06-2011 at 01:04 PM..

01-13-2011, 09:48 AM	#102 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	.. Last edited by silent_jay; 02-06-2011 at 01:04 PM..

01-13-2011, 09:58 AM	#103 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Do you tip Mounties? I only ask because here sometimes you tip the police. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

01-14-2011, 02:03 PM	#105 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Target's incoming!!!!! __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

01-14-2011, 02:48 PM	#106 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	Hooray Canada!! As a Canadian I have to say that Molson is some of the worst beer I have ever had. However, Canada as a whole does have some delicious beers.

01-14-2011, 04:04 PM	#107 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	brador.jpg best canadian beer i ever drank, and i've pissed out a lot of labatts blue... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it. Last edited by uncle phil; 02-17-2011 at 01:43 PM..

01-16-2011, 10:23 AM	#108 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	I just got off the phone with a friend in North Dakota near the Canadian border. He said that since early today the snow has been nearly waist high and is still falling. The temperature is way below zero and the north wind is increasing to near gale forces. His wife has done nothing but look through the kitchen window and just stare. He says that if it gets much worse, he may have to let her in... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

01-16-2011, 11:08 AM	#109 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	As a Bi-Centennial celebration of the War of 1812, the Canadians should organize and plan a War of 2012 ...as if they aren't already.

01-16-2011, 01:29 PM	#111 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Well I'm 47 and a US citizen and I'm working on leaning Spanish. I've found it to be a show process but things have improved since Lord Eden was here and left a copy of Language software for me. Prior to that my teacher was a 73 yr old French Canadian lady. I have no idea why it's taken me so long. Could me my fairly serious dyslexia, or maybe I'm just a slow learner. Whatever it's taken me a long time. But I would never expect to go to another country and have them learn English for me. As for tipping I'm pretty much done beating that dead horse but I will add here it's even worse. On cruise day the restaurants by the pier charge waiters rental on tables. Many places in Merida to not pay their wait staff anything. No tip=no income. As for "find a better job"... here? Good luck with that. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

01-27-2011, 02:15 PM	#112 (permalink)
lisalisa1 Upright Location: Beautiful Canada	You mean I have to go? I'm staying.