snowy

So, I work at a church. Lately, we've had a problem with the homeless because 1) we're a church, and 2) the weather has been crap. Normally, having a homeless person or 2 around is not a problem because they try to explain themselves, but lately, we've had a few folks around who sleep various places in our church and do not tell us why they're there, or that they're there.

So, were you staff at my church, how would you deal with this?

One idea I've had is to try and create a position with our lay ministry. This person would come in and explain to the homeless person what resources there were in the community and how they could be somewhere other than our church (our community has a daytime drop-in center as well as other resources available).

What are your suggestions?

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Grancey

Not a clue. Where I live, there are so many programs to help people that homelessness never becomes an issue. I know this is dfferent in large cities. Actually, I did know of one homeless man who lived in an abandoned building near the downtown area. A police officer told me about him and that they checked on him from time to time, so I guess even he was not really homeless.

__________________
Quiet, mild-mannered souls might just turn out to be roaring lions of two-fisted cool.

Willravel

For Christmas this year, my dad and step mother donated money in my name to World Vision, a charity that's involved with, among other things, delivering medicine to children in need who are living in impoverished areas of the planet. I thanked them for the thoughtful gift, and I'm grateful of course, but it occurred to me that the money they donated, while helpful on a small scale, was treating the symptom and not the problem. Like the homeless problem in Oregon, apparently, the problem is not needing medicine or needing shelter, but rather the extreme poverty that comes with the territory of wealth inequality.

It's not like all the people who show up to your church are incapable of working in any way. A few may have emotional or neurological problems, but if your experience working with the homeless was anything like mine, most homeless people could hold down a job, pay bills, and contribute to society if given the opportunity. Their biggest hurdle is unemployment and what little employment they have a shot at is super low-wage. When I was working downtown, the best thing we had was to put people into job training, but in 2010 even that's a long shot.

I guess my long-winded answer is that to more abstractly deal with the homeless problem one must fix the American banking system, put in place a more progressive tax system, have more social programs for job training, have more public works, and correct problems with global trade.

More practically, I think, you should see what job-training opportunities there are in the area. If parishioners have a few extra dollars this season, maybe you could help to pay for job training or to at least locate easy seasonal work. You can call it the "Teach a Man to Fish" program or something.

Baraka_Guru

The ironic thing is that the source problems leading to homelessness isn't simply a lack of a home.

There are a number of reasons why people become homeless, and it's kind of pointless to try to profile the homeless as one type of individual over another, because there are varying profiles. You're going to get people who were abused, who lost their job, who got injured or sick and didn't have enough support, or who have mental health issues. You are going to get more people yet who have other reasons for being homeless.

That said, it's probably best to deal with homelessness at the level of prevention. Every advanced economy should have a robust social safety net that prevents people from bottoming out as a result of domestic, health, or economic issues beyond their control.

You aren't going to eliminate homelessness this way, and so the other way to deal with it is to have comprehensive programs to alleviate the suffering that comes with being without a home. This includes accessible shelters, food programs, clothing programs, job training programs, etc. This should be pretty obvious by now. I think the problem isn't so much the existence of such things but their adequate funding and accessibility---mainly their area of coverage and ability to serve people satisfactorily.

I think the one thing that we tend to overlook or otherwise choose to avoid discussing or acknowledging is that we would be hard-pressed to find an economy---even an advanced economy---where inequality wasn't an inevitability. And in most cases, this inequality produces a class of citizens who are impoverished in that they struggle to thrive within the society of which they are a part. The homeless are merely the most visible aspect of the most desperate.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

snowy

I'd like to say that in terms of ministries that prevent homelessness, I'd like to think our church is doing a pretty good job in that respect. We're the largest contributor to one of the local food banks, for example. As far as helping the homeless, we do perform a homeless outreach event once a year that aims to connect the homeless with community resources. We also participate in ecumenical ministries with other churches that provide shelter and meals to the homeless in our community.

My husband and I were discussing last night that one of the difficulties homeless and low income people in our community face is lack of knowledge about community resources. There are a lot of programs in my community to help the impoverished of all kinds, but many people do not know what they are. It makes us sad that here we are, two college graduates who will never need these resources, yet we both know what they are and how to secure them.

One kind of complicating factor here is that the homeless present in our church may have been kicked out of community resources. For instance, in order to use the daytime drop-in center, the person must be sober. There are many homeless in our community who don't agree with this restriction, and so seek out other places to take shelter other than the daytime drop-in center. We had one man last year who became a nuisance after being kicked out and banned from the daytime drop-in center after getting in a fight with another man.

Having the homeless hang around our church is an issue because we are a community center. There is a daycare facility that operates out of our church, and the safety of the children must be considered when allowing our church to be used by others. As said in the OP, there is no problem when someone stops in to get out of the weather for a bit and lets our office manager know their purpose; however, there are a couple of men who have skipped this step and just sacked out in a random corner of the church, or gotten into the kitchens/bathrooms directly adjacent to the childcare area.

So while all this talk of preventing homelessness is well and good, it doesn't really do anything to help me solve our immediate problem. You should probably also know my community tends to attract a unique kind of homeless--the guy who didn't want to work for the Man. I live in a hippie town, and I've also had the opportunity to talk to a lot of the homeless around here. Many of them do have substance abuse problems that keep them out of shelters, and many have mental health disorders that are untreated. Again, the safety of the children at our church is what comes first.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Craven Morehead

Snowy, it sounds as thought there are shelters, agenices and other facilities in your community that provides assistance to the homeless. Contact them. Explain the situation and ask for their help and guidance. See what they can come up with.

Grasshopper Green

Is your church close to any of the other facilities available to the homeless? If not, getting to the drop in center could be a stumbling block to the folks sleeping in your church. Perhaps your church could partner with someone else in providing some sort of transportation, if anyone has access to a van.

My uncle lives in Eugene and lived on the streets for many years by choice - like you said, he didn't want to work for The Man. Now he lives with friends in a house so he's no longer homeless (and he's been living in the same place for awhile, I believe) - I'm not sure how they pay for things, though. Perhaps you could ask church members if they know anyone in a similar circumstance, people pooling resources and living communally. They might have advice.

I wish I could be more help, homelessness is a terrible thing. My brother was homeless before he died; he stayed with us for a month or so because we didn't want him sleeping in the park. He couldn't stay at the shelter because he drank. My sister lived in a homeless shelter for several months and then ended up working there and we've talked a lot about this topic. There are such a wide variety of causes that there really isn't a surefire cure.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

thedoc

Sep 18, 2007 1:52:07 AM cite

The phrasing of this OP suggests that homeless people are a problem to be solved. It expresses a kind of Bigotry, 'I have a home, a job, and a car, and if thats good for me it should be good for you, and if you don't have these things, there is something wrong with you that needs fixed'. Why are people homeless ? Some have no choice, they have lost everything and are on the street, and may need help. Some have chosen to live on the street with no stress from a job or family, and no responsability, a kind of freedom that others just talk about. Before you 'Help' someone by putting them in a shelter or a home find out what they want. You do not have the right to impose your standards on others.
by thedoc

Willravel

Oh dear.

Wes Mantooth

How about some sort of posted bulletin with information on local services, direction, phone numbers and any other advice that might be helpful as well as, hint hint, encourage them to go elsewhere? Perhaps designate an out of the way room where people can sleep and warm up? That might guide them away from the daycare area and keep the traffic manageable.

"Down the stairs and to the left. You'll find a few cots and a little warm food/coffee whatever."

I can understand a church wanting to help the homeless but you can't just have people wandering around the church at all hours and picking any old corner to call home. Lets be real, bad stuff could start going down if it gets out of hand and like you wrote the safety of the children, parishioners and church need to come first. I'd post and make sure they adhere to a strict set of rules about what will and wont be tolerated on church property such as checking in, respecting off limits areas, violence, theft, drug use and everything else that may pop up.

I also like the idea of having some sort of communal church/town van that can transport people around to various services, although that's usually more easily said then done.

Best of luck.

__________________

Fire

The security issues you are facing are going to be difficult, if you want to be open and help people, then you are going to sacrifice the safety of your parishioners and their dependents (children) at least to some extent- I would recommend that you first off, discuss within whatever body governs your churches policy what it is that you are willing to offer in the way of services, then set rules for where and when you will allow people to be, and post these rules in highly visible areas- finally, establish who will enforce these rules for the safety of you and yours- beyond that , talk to the local shelters and the police as well, and figure out before hand what you will do when and if you run into someone that cannot or will not follow your rules.....

__________________
Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens

Walt

Please continue.

__________________
Calmer than you are...

The_Jazz

Actually, if they're in the church, I think that the church (which if you read the OP doesn't have a shelter attached to it) has every right to impose their standards on those who are clearly there for help. Remember, these folks voluntarily walked through the doors of the church looking for, if absolutely nothing else, a warm, dry place to sit for a few minutes. The church is providing that.

The freedom-seekers you mention wouldn't be caught dead in a church or anywhere else. They'd be under a bridge or in the shelter they made for themselves. I've known several guys like that, but they're not the norm. The habitually homeless (i.e. not folks that lost their jobs) are overwhelmingly demonstrably mentally ill and can be (but aren't by any means always) dangers to themselves and others.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

StanT

The problem with any solution for the homeless is that every situation is different. There just isn't going to be a one size fits all solution.

On a personal level, there are simply more problems and unfairness in the world than I can address or even give a shit about. It seems that my concern and effort is better spent by finding a single niche where I can make a difference and focusing my time and money there, hoping that someone else will pick up what I neglect.

I'd suggest that might be the case with your church, as well. You can't be everything to everyone. Perhaps find one or two projects that best suit you and team up with other churches to provide what you cannot.

Walt

Whoa, now. Don't you impose your arbitrary standards of what is acceptable, on thedoc for arbitrarily imposing his self-righteous standards on Snowy because of a perceived imposition of standards. Thats bigotry.

/standards.

__________________
Calmer than you are...

mrmacq

dude
"Sep 18, 2007 1:52:07 AM cite

The phrasing of this OP suggests that homeless people are a problem to be solved. It expresses a kind of Bigotry, 'I have a home, a job, and a car, and if thats good for me it should be good for you, and if you don't have these things, there is something wrong with you that needs fixed'. Why are people homeless ? Some have no choice, they have lost everything and are on the street, and may need help. Some have chosen to live on the street with no stress from a job or family, and no responsability, a kind of freedom that others just talk about. Before you 'Help' someone by putting them in a shelter or a home find out what they want. You do not have the right to impose your standards on others.by thedoc


"arbitrarily imposing his self-righteous standards "

i didnt get that feel whatsoever
leastwise not from him

did you misread
due to a preconceived notion?

id hate to jump in
with full boots

tell me where you misinterpreted

__________________
never stop questioning,curiosity has its own rewards

snowy

Here's how it is:

These particular homeless that we have a problem with are generally drunk, or more interested in being drunk than sober, put my kids in danger, and therefore are not welcome in our establishment. They come into our kitchens when we are not present in the church--but because we are a church, our doors are open--and they eat the food meant for children in the church. They trash our bathrooms when we are not there.

I am not trying to put the boundaries of society on them. If they do not wish to be a part of society, I wish them well, but if they do not wish to be a part of society--WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING IN A CHURCH?! I am not interested in reforming homeless that do not wish to have a home.

In my past experience, I came into contact with a homeless person around my age that frequented a local forum and more or less used it as a place to find places to crash. I found this out the hard way one New Year's Eve when he showed up to my party, ended up crashing on my couch, and stayed there until 4pm the next day. He was one of those homeless that I characterized as unwilling to work for The Man.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

thedoc

Sorry but my post was directed at a slightly different question on another site, I should have been more clear. Without intending to create an oxymoron a 'Responsable Homeless' should be left alone as that is what they want and are probably coping OK. The 'Irresponsable Homeless' are a problem that should be delt with each case specificaly. I would also say that the church or a shelter should be able to set standards for those who use the facility, Those who do not seek shelter or help could be left alone.

---------- Post added at 07:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 AM ----------

Yes dear?

Strange Famous

A church is a house of God, I would think that God would like his house to be shut up and closed to any of his children simply for the sake of some others who cannot bare to share a public space with someone who is homeless.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

zenda

God also wouldn't like children to have food meant for them taken away, or toilet hygiene compromised. Or drunk people falling on them. NB, I'm just guessing that for God, it's one of those "I give them free will. They give me headaches" kind of things.



Anyway. Hi Snowy. Pleased to meet you and I'm noticing the following:

This thread is pertaining to people who are homeless, The immediate issue is, however, not about their homelessness, it is about protection against someone's dangerous behaviour and about preserving effectiveness in administering the duty of care being entrusted to you by the community.

The fact that they are homeless is a red herring which CAN be used against you to make you seem like the 'bad guys' when you take vigorous measures to protect the context in which you CAN care for people who Do Need in ways which you are ABLE to provide for.

It is an issue of security and lockdown.
It is not an issue of twisting yourself knots to 'sell' pastoral care where it is not wanted.
It is not an issue of long-time frames and dealing with underlying causes.
It is an issue of preventing the 'accident' which could happen to a child .. tomorrow.

Or of saying "Parents, I am sorry, your children are not welcome here, for their own good, since we have potentially dangerous people squatting on the premises." And let's face it - if a child suffers serious damage, your operation gets shut down.

Those are the realities, and I am sadly amused when harm to those we are caring for NOW, becomes a matter of acceptable collateral damage. Because of this, I am manufacturing a few bottom lines in place and propose that they, or bottom lines such as them be the 'acid test', when politically astute or globally conscious issues are raised.

Your thread is about what to do NOW, where now=ASAP, and we thank your church's God that children have not already come to serious grief.




Now, because it seems OK for this thread to include examining issues of 'bigotry' and 'assumptions' regarding people's application of standards, I may go ahead and do so .. but that will be for another, more philosophical post.

After all, I need to practice, in order to be ready for when I get faced by a vigorous freedom-fighter, valiantly asserting a case for independence from the Man, and expressing it by turning up on my doorstep, and 'giving' me the opportunity to support the cause for world peace and liberation from oppression by multi national corporations - by giving him food, shelter and cherishing his right to get rat-arsed.

Strange Famous

why are people without homes more dangerous than others in your view?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

zenda

Hi Strange Famous

I'm not sure if you're addressing your post to my comment specifically, but it comes directly after mine. It also seems, like mine, to question the idea that there might be any necessary connection between the homeless and the dangerous.

I'll reiterate my position that issues of homelessness and issues of people being dangerous are separate, and in my opinion, need to be treated as such for the purpose of giving service providers a clear remit to respond to a person's behaviour, and also to honour the people who, for no fault of their own, have fallen on hard times.

keymaker

I always try to help and have bought food and other items when I thought it was appropiate. But in Downtown Atlanta there are many homeless and some of them can be quite aggressive. But most of them are homeless for different reasons but all can be helped if they are willing and the resources are available.