girldetective

I believe most of us are citizens of the country we grew up in, and it is probably where most of us continue to reside for convenience and what not. However, if you were free to choose your country of citizenship where would you wish to be?

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As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Jetée

Could you elaborate on your meaning? Is this a "wishing"-sort-of thread, in that if we could, ideally, be recognized as another nationality, what would that country be?


I'm not trying to be finnicky or cut you down at all, but I do find the query sort of patronizing, as my family and I worked quite hard to obtain my US citizenship, and along with that, I earned two more after the fact (English / UK and Spanish). In total, I have 5 real citizenships, 3 of which I earned through studying the nation's history and politics, 1 which was given to me at the time for just "being" (where I was born), and another, which was "rewarded" to me for working and contributing towards a project in a foreign country. Also, I had to be a resident in each of those country's for a set time period (it varies from place to place), but as I was living there each time (or working there), it was offered to me by friends that I apply for citizenship, so I'm not just "sitting on your arse, toilng away with nothing to show for it but raw hands and a pint in your belly!".

Last bit: I'm currently still a resident in Argentina, but I think that it (has?) expires soon. I'll have to check the card.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

flat5

I left California in 1983. Been in Amsterdam since then. Best decision I ever made.
I am now too weak to work but have a nice small apartment, health insurance, money and some friends.

genuinegirly

I haven't ever given this any thought. I've never had to work for my citizenship, perhaps I would view it differently if there was a need.

I recently learned that if my husband wanted something more substantial than an internship in Denmark, he would need to learn the language and apply for citizenship. Seems like a lot of hassle when one could find work elsewhere.

I suppose if I traveled someplace that spoke to my soul so deeply that it merited a move, citizenship would be something that I would strive for.

I'm probably wrong, but citizenship seems like a concept that will die out within my lifetime.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

MiSo

outer space!!

seriously though, i love america and wouldn't wanna be anywhere else.

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- this space for rent -

Charlatan

I live abroad and consider where I live home.

I don't know that I would be willing to give up my Canadian citizenship though.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Pearl Trade

I wouldn't want to live full-time in any other country than the USA. I've given it serious thought before, about other nation's that seem "good" to live in. Sure, there are some cool places out there, but none compare to the USA.

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Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

warrrreagl

Australia.

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

snowy

My dad was born in the Netherlands, and I still have family there, so I've thought about that.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

spindles

I haven't ever been to any country that I thought was better than where I live now, but I haven't been to Europe, South America, most of Asia or Africa - yet.

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who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

dlish

ive travelled a lot in the last few years and i cant say ive found a better place tha matches the quality of life that Australia matches. not saying that because it's where i was born and raised, but because i realised this on my travels.

Sydney will always be home. every other place is a place in the shade during my travels. destination home.

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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

girldetective

I'm not trying to be finnicky or cut you down at all, but I do find the query sort of patronizing

I give up.
Take me off the tfp member list.
Im done.

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As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Charlatan

But wasn't the query yours?

What are you talking about?

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

ring

She was quoting Jetee.

New Zealand would be my choice.

Iliftrocks

Thinking of moving to Canada ( nova scotia ), but will have to wait at least until my woman gets out of nursing school. Citizenship, maybe

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bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

warrrreagl

Do you mean that Jetee dropped a random turd in someone's thread and caused them to throw up their hands and ask, "What's the point?"

I am shocked. Shocked, I say.

Did I already say Australia?

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

dlish

no you didnt warreagle...

did i mention australia?

i think the second place id want to call home would be some tiny island in sth east asia when im a little older. hey maybe ill chill out with charlatan!

come on back girldetective. This baby's yours.

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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Daniel_

I like the UK, there is something in common with the weather, the wildlife, the people, the police, the army and the ecomomy.

None of them kill people very often.

If I were not British, I like Scandinavia, the Netherlands, New Zealand, or Canada.

The US scares me.

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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biznatch

I'm not sure whether choosing a country would make me lose the citizenship I already have.

I'm French, and came back to live here fairly recently after having spent most of my life in the US.
As it is now, I can't choose between one or the other. I intend to travel all my life, at least once every 5 years, a different city or country.
I think France makes the most sense in terms of social benefits, quality of life, etc. The US has more opportunities for a fulfilling, succesful career. I consider myself a world citizen, french by birth, but willing to go experience a new culture anytime.

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lurkette

I haven't visited that many other countries, but I would probably choose the Netherlands for their relatively sane social policy.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Pearl Trade

When I visited a few European countries, Germany and Ireland seemed like great places to live. Of course, I wouldn't take them over America, but does anyone have insight into what living there would be like?

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Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Eilonwy

Most of the time I don't want to be a citizen of anyplace but America.

However, I absolutely love both France and Italy. I have often recently thought that if I ever do have children I'd want them to go to elementary and high school in western Europe somewhere because I think the public school systems there are, for the most part, more open minded, culturally diverse, and generally provide a great education (not to mention the decline of a lot of the public schools around here).

spindles

yes he did!
the question is, would we let him in

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who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Idyllic

I've lived all over the U.S., SanFran, L.A., spent some time in Alaska, Illinois, etc. am now located in the D.C. area. I have never been outside the U.S., not by choice however, just haven't made it out yet, but am looking forward to traveling.

In the end, I want to be back in Florida, that is home to me and always will be, though Jamaica was fab., still give me the Gulf of Mexico and call me Happy (or oily I guess). I'm having a real hard time accepting what they have done to my Gulf......

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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

Charlatan

I guess I shouldn't find it odd that so many Americans are not interested in living elsewhere but I have to wonder if it's just a matter of being comfortable with what you know or (to put it another way) uncomfortable with what you don't.

This is not a bash on American but rather an honest question.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

ring

& I live here.

I would leave in a heartbeat if I could afford to.

ironman

ICELAND!

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If I agreed with you we´d both be wrong

Jetée

First off, I'm not sure, exactly, when it was that I suddenly became enemy #1 to certain individuals here, but my initial post, directed towards gd, was in the hopes that she may elaborate on what, specifically, she was looking to extract from us, in terms of a response. I'd have hated this to just become another word association, in which members state a country, just for the sake of fulfilling your request, and without any elaboration as to why. That's not a discussion. It's something akin to 'simon asking'.

I don't believe I am at fault in the way it seemed patronizing, (1st and 3rd defintions, American English Heritage) at least when I first encountered the question, as to it promoting another nation, whether you know loads of history about it or not, and on the negative side, one would perhaps disparage their own resident country in the process, if only incidentally, by stating "I'd much rather live there for state reasons here". Is that not a fair question?

This is a double-edged sword in terms of bringing positive awareness to other nations, yet also sometimes brings about the negatives, on why where we are now living does not seem to satisfy us anymore. From what I read, and perhaps interpreted from the "wish" part, (keyword) it set my mind's example to something that was not so pleasant.

Keen example: it's not unlike the scene from The Last King of Scotland, where General Amin encounters McAvoy's character, and upon realizing his nationality states something to the effect that if he were not a proud Uguandan, and were able to freely choose where he could have born, he would most certainly have chosen Scotland (as he admired Scotland for its long resilience and resistance towards total English rule). Perhaps I was wrong to assume that was the go of it, and others' might follow suit to it, but that is precisely the reason I took the time, and general conscientious effort, to make sure you did not misunderstand my follow-up reply to please, shed some light on your initial meaning. It seems I failed at that, as once again, you have miscontrued a genuine attempt by my person to more fully understand what you'd ideally like as a member's response here. I had no idea I had to account for such sensitivity when I thought out and submitted my nonplussed, but honest, inquiry.



Next, and I'm still at loss on how I've gotten on your bad side, warreagl, other than an off-handed commentary I made recently in your game thread about "stating the #1 pop hits from the date you were born". Now, I won't apologize, as I did nothing to disparage you, nor intentionally did I mean to discredit your topic, or do anything other than post a follow-up link of a thread that was only "similar" (as stated). Is that anything to get so bent out of shape for, though, I ask? The one I am sorry for is that I left my reply terse enough for you to infer and exract a meaning from within it that I did not intend for whasoever. I merely should have stated that within that other particular thread's discussion, there were accompanying websites that showed varying musical genres for specific dates, and in other specific geographic countries. More charts for those who had stated they wanted to see what they may have contained.



To elaborate: In most countries, your citizenship is a lifetime guarantee and certification that you are a member of this country's boundaries, communities, and institution of being. There are exceptions to that rule, though, and also some countries that actually go out of their way to not even really recognize some of their inhabitants, and their rights.

I also hopefully agree with the senitments of genuinegirly, in that, perhaps one day, there will no longer be a need for such relatively resticting national lines of demarcation amongst us all. I have always been a hopping and wandering sort of soul, initially not by choice, from whence I was younger, to when I had to travel for business relations and agreements; but, now, I do it just for the sheer thrill of getting to know my own world history, firsthand, and also increasing my awaresness to this greatly expansive habitation of ours. It's just there for us, but as it is, most are simply content to know it is there, what it serves, in rudimentary knowledge, and let it be, without any further thoughts. A textbook or 44-minute TV special can only get you so far.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Plan9

I could move to Canada (pseudo-USA) or Germany (nice enough place). I'd have to ditch my favorite hobby, but I could take up something else.

...

It may seem hokey, but I do love my country. For all its problems, I think the United States is the best country on earth; it's an amazing place full of the world's peoples and those of us that live here should take more time to experience the far corners of it before we decide that "it all sucks" and that we'd be better off elsewhere. I haven't seen much, but I can say that Chicago IL is not Burlington VT, Arlington TX is not Richmond VA. It's crazy different. Such a vast, heterogeneous country demands exploration. I mean, c'mon... we've got Yellowstone Park, the I'm-Not-Crying-In-Public monuments of Washington DC, the Hershey's chocolate factory, we're home to cruiser motorcycles, and the biggest rubber band ball in the world.

I can't quite place why, but this thought makes me kinda sad. Citizenship is important not only as a method to organize people (a convenient temporal-spatial cubby, if you will), but it's something that should encourage development in a region. It doesn't have to be about race or religion... but just... taking pride in a place because you're from there, your family is from there, you've worked hard there, etc. I have to believe that place matters.

Seems patriotism, as an active religion, is hurtin' pretty bad these days. There is no great crusade and our selfish, obese hands lay idle.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Pearl Trade

You could also think of it in a lazy man's view: I'd have to learn everything all over again. The culture, customs, language, social norms, and a whole new brand of people. To someone who is more "I have to get out now", then they're probably going to be more open and willing to learning a whole new system.

The way I see it, it all comes down to one thing: Will I be better off if I lived somewhere new?

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Baraka_Guru

Dude, you can own shit like the AR-15. What more do you need? Sure, you'd have to "cull" 95% of your collection, but surely there are still a few decent items you can use with the proper documentation.

It's a trade-off. But, hey, we a HUGE playground for using such things.

* * * * *

I'd probably like much of Scandinavian Europe, but language is a barrier.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cynthetiq

I'm not interested in giving up my US citizenship. I don't think that any other country will do me any better or worse, each has it's drawbacks.

I'd like to be expatriated in another country again. It was fun to be in Singapore for awhile. I'd like to be able to move from country to country if I could. I have too many to list, Iceland is definitely on there.

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Ourcrazymodern?

*

Y'all know I'm a fairly dedicated American. New Zealand would be my second choice, since I've seen it, & ring will be there.

*(OPgd) one can't speak for all.

(Since I've already wasted an edit notation: Being comfortable in familiar places seems natural. A lot of us don't retain the mobility to dream.)

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

ring

Hey there, Ourcrazymodern?

Wednesday is lottery ticket day, correct?

I'll cash in my pennies. We are going to New Zealand, with zeal.

MSD

I'd stick with the US since I'd rather work for changes we need here than abandon all the good stuff. Second choice would be New Zealand, the most laid-back place on earth.

Plan9

Yeah, yeah, yeah... dude, Canadian gun laws are like Amish porn: not satisfying to most people who've seen real porn.

What's the point of having guns if I can't own a Demars Streetsweeper and a Penn Arms 37mm launcher? WE HAVE NEEDS.

...

Kidding, actually. All I need is my Savage turn bolt, a good pump action 12g, and a couple of sixguns. Everything else is cool guy toys.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Well, I believe we're good to go.

How are you around socialists?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Whoa, did my username changed to DKSuddeth all of sudden?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ourcrazymodern?

That settles it! I'm smuggling myself to Fly's house. -might get a snack.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

mqa

My parents are Polish, and moved to Sweden in the 80's to escape the communist dictatorship that had plagued Poland their whole lives. I was born in Sweden, and have lived here my whole life (20 years now). My biggest dream has always been to move to the US or Canada, and I still intend to do everything I can to obtain a citizenship there, as soon as I finish my studies here.

My first real post here, by the way! (: