05-30-2010, 09:56 AM | #281 (permalink) |
still, wondering.
Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge
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Mine, too, roachboy. Demonizing the well to distract from our mistake will probably work, but I think Byron King should have analyzed his speech a little better. Hell, our President might have, as well. Natural processes will clean up the mess, in due course. Compensating our fellows will probably be impossible.
"How do you hurt a man who's lost everything? Give him back something broken."
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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT |
05-30-2010, 10:25 AM | #282 (permalink) | |
Her Jay
Location: Ontario for now....
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Seems it's the next part of this 'plan' the Lower Marine Riser Package, that still isn't going to stop anything, but will contain 'most' of the oil. The relief wells are still their big hope, but they won't be done until some time in August, I still have no idea how some can call this a plan, all these seem to me are stabs in the dark, and they're just hoping one actually does something, sure seems like drilling relief wells while drilling the producing well makes sense, but I guess after the fact is the best 'plan'.
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05-30-2010, 10:34 AM | #283 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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If only there were already a relief well and/or an acoustic switch on the blowout preventer.
Hindsight is 20/20, as it were, but foresight is still undervalued, unless you're Norway and Brazil.
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
05-30-2010, 10:55 AM | #284 (permalink) | |
Her Jay
Location: Ontario for now....
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A relief well already being drilled isn't really hindsight, to me at least, it's more common sense when drilling at depths such as that, I mean they obviously knew if anything went wrong, it would be a chore to seal the leak as any method attempted wouldn't have been tried at that depth before, and that any fix they tried would be more of a hail mary pass than an actual 'plan'. You are right though foresight is still undervalued, or it gets blinded by dollar signs.
Edit: Not sure if this has been posted before, just noticed it on another site: Quote:
Last edited by silent_jay; 05-30-2010 at 12:37 PM.. Reason: added story |
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05-31-2010, 07:40 AM | #285 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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nice. what seems clear is that the relief wells are the best hope of actually stopping the geyser of oil. that's been clear from the start to some folks who seem to know things about oil wells and drilling and this sort of problem on the surface of the earth.
from the oil drum an interesting speculative narrative of how the explosion happened: Quote:
the relief well is apparently not a panacea. they won't necessarily do what they're being drilled to do. but they're certainly the best hope for stopping the flow of new oil. it's quite alarming, the information that's surfacing about the extent of the oil. the use of dispersants to weight it down is curous. problematic. this before anything like a coherent view on the damage that's being done is assembled. more plumage: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_591994.html
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 05-31-2010 at 08:58 AM.. |
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05-31-2010, 03:51 PM | #286 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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So the question: If all of this happened before (and we seem to have forgotten about it) why haven't our preparations for preventing and/or stopping this sort of disaster changed? Especially when it's the exact same company. Especially when the drilling is happening at even greater depths.
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
06-01-2010, 04:31 AM | #288 (permalink) |
I change
Location: USA
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roachboy, thanks for all your good info on this tragedy for us all. The oil drum site is a great resource.
I have been using these sites to track the spill each day: Map and Estimates of Oil Spilled in the Gulf of Mexico - Interactive Map - NYTimes.com See how the oil spill grows in the Gulf of Mexico - USATODAY.com
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create evolution |
06-01-2010, 11:36 AM | #289 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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here's an infographic that makes the extent of the oil spill and potentials for damage really quite plain:
CRUDE AWAKENING edit: best that can be determined bp's suspended most meaningful operations to stop the flow of new oil. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6541#comments_top it appears that an attempt that's detailed far better at the link above than i could hope to do here failed. the consensus on the oil drum is that the next phase will be the relief wells. what's curious about the viewpoints on that site is that while there's considerable engineering and oil experience, there's also a tendency to dismiss ecological considerations...well maybe to minimize them is more accurate a statement. it's peculiar. but it's also an indication of the scenario we're all in at the moment in terms of information. there's not a whole lot of data yet. there are persistent reports that bp and the coast guard have been obstructing attempts to get access to affected areas (see the infographic for alot about all this) & the bp has been trying to minimize the sense of amount of oil that's already out and the rate at which it is flowing because they're trying to minimize the fines they're apt to get whacked with, which are determined on a per/barrel basis. when you hear about plumes of oil, as the people on the oil drum point out, there's no consistency in terms of what that means. they will write again and again that a plume can contain levels of oil in the parts per billion range or a saturation. there's no agreement about toxicities amongst these people, nor is there any agreement about the implications of the dispersants. autonomous information sources appear to be working at a lag. it's less simple to say things about ecological damage than it is to estimate the number of gallons of oil blowing through a cracked pipe or 3 a mile below the surface of the ocean. and there are fewer visuals. it's hard to get other information really. and it's difficult to know what to make of some of what information there is available. maybe this is a significant dimension of how consent for the petroleum-economy is maintained--ignorance plus cheap gas. so the walmart way.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 06-01-2010 at 12:37 PM.. |
06-01-2010, 02:06 PM | #290 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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06-01-2010, 03:22 PM | #291 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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Quote:
the financial times version: FT.com / US / Politics & Foreign policy - US orders criminal probe into BP oil spill so let's think about this for a second. first, it's obvious that no-one buys attempts to shift responsibility onto the state. reality is in the way. the question of which particular laws were broken is a technical matter that i'm not competent to comment on too much. but criminal negligence...that's clear from what we know of the period leading up to the explosion. the irony is that there's probably no prosecution that can happen around what's among the worst combinations behind this disaster: mms decision to accept bp's claim an accident was "unlikely" enough that planning for disaster contingencies fitted to the specific conditions of drilling a mile below the surface were deemed an unnecessary bother. profit and fees uber alles. besides bidness knows best. so the best we can hope for there is a wholesale reworking on the rules of the game that moves away from this illusion that profit seeking=a generalizable rationality. what i'm curious about is: can officers of a corporation be brought up on criminal charges over this? what happens if bp loses its ability to operate in the united states? that would effectively put them out of business if i understand the situation correctly. if bp goes out of business, who will pay the damages caused by the massive leak and disaster that their negligence--enabled by a conservative-oriented regulatory set up---have visited upon the gulf? who will pay for the clean up? where will the technologies required come from? it seems to me that liability limitations are a real problem in a situation like this. why would it not make sense for bp already to be planning for it's own bankruptcy as a way to avoid the consequences of their action? will any of these assholes do jail time? will putting them in jail clean up the gulf? will it restore the marshlands or regenerate the food chain? at the same time i am absolutely in favor of prosecuting all the people who operated or even hold shares in any of the three main corporate persons at the center of this nightmare. but at the same time...it seems like this is a self-evident limit to any notion of corporate responsibility social or otherwise that it is a person until it encounters consequences for its own actions that are too big to bear at which point it becomes an abstract concern again and disappears. but i am not a lawyer. i rather hope i don't understand basic things about how this sort of prosecution would work.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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06-01-2010, 03:29 PM | #292 (permalink) |
immoral minority
Location: Back in Ohio
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Burning the oil doesn't sound like the best plan. Regulations would have had a good chance of preventing something like this. As well as getting Americans to change the way they use oil.
Yet I doubt even this event will change the minds of people in that region to stop using oil/gas and become greener. |
06-02-2010, 06:44 AM | #293 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Toronto
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The taxpayers of the United States. Answers both your questions. BP will probably declare bankruptcy in order to be able to simply walk away. Will their fat-cats do time? Maybe. But it will take years and years to get them and a lot of money. |
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06-02-2010, 07:09 AM | #294 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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From your neighborhood capitalist.
I have an agenda, which is to increase domestic oil production to feed business growth and expansion in this country as we transition to increased use of non-fossil fuels. What I post supports my agenda.
From IBD editorial pages today: Quote:
There are consequences to actions taken - environmentalists should reflect on their strategy considering the current disaster.
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06-02-2010, 07:30 AM | #295 (permalink) | ||
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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not much time at the moment to respond to the inverted world post above.
more activity at the leak site, another problem: Quote:
informed almost play-by-play from the oil drum here: The Oil Drum | BP's Deepwater Oil Spill - The Saw is Stuck, Working on the Riser, and an Open Thread meanwhile, bp's share values are vaporizing: BP oil spill: Shares fall further | Business | guardian.co.uk so hayward comes clean about bp's lack of adequate planning and technology and then talks about the need for a "rethink" Quote:
this is some of the stuff that's happening in the reality that people know about who read things that aren't the ibd editorial page. but feel free to post more "relevant" materials.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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06-02-2010, 07:46 AM | #296 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Actions have consequences.
Our current administration often responds in ways that appears to lack much forethought, here is another example as it relates to this spill.
Quote:
Obama thinks he is hitting the major oil companies, but he is actually hurting the local Gulf states economies, the people who work in the industry and those who work to support the industry. So they get hit with an inadequate response by the government and now a knee-jerk reaction by the government.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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06-02-2010, 08:20 AM | #297 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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edit [[i deleted an earlier post. i thought better of it and replaced it with this]]
here's a nice compact-ish history of conservative and industry attempts to take over the category "environmentalist" and use it to discredit an entire set of concerns: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n29440361/ in ace's infotainment above, we aren't really talking about anything in particular when the word "environmentalist" comes up--it's just another conservative boogeyman, another evil faction of the liberal elite which sucks the blood of right-thinking americans and the corporate practices for which they stand. we're dealing with straight-up conservative ideology then that's being fobbed off as viable information. i have an agenda in this thread. my agenda is trying to understand what the fuck is happening at the site of the deepwater horizon disaster. i am interested in its political and by extension regulation-based conditions of possibility. i am interested in the specific history of bp in the gulf and the ways in which these converge on the disaster itself, as explanations of it. i am interested in the politics that have taken shape around the attempts to stop the massive flow of oil into the waters of the gulf of mexico. i'm interested in the conflicts that are taking shape between the federal and state governments and bp around the clean-up, to the extent that there is one. i am interested in assessments of damage and proposals for remedies. i'm interested to see what, if anything, happens to the corporate persons involved with this mess. i'm interested to see what, if any, role other stakeholders in the gulf area are allowed to take in shaping what happens with the oil. i'm interested in the appalling brand triage that bp's been running and that its starting to fall apart. and i'm interested in the longer run to see how this disaster changes the regulatory framework first and more generally the politics of petroleum. the information i gather and post here is shaped by this range of interests, but since the thread is a real-time research project, it's not shaped by the interests. i say this to demonstrate why i consider what you are now doing, ace darling, to be a threadjack.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 06-02-2010 at 09:15 AM.. |
06-02-2010, 09:14 AM | #298 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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rb-
As this thing drags on, I'm starting to think that the expense of the leak and the clean up are, in the near term, going to serve as a deterent against reckless behavior on the oil companys' part. I think that the bean counters are going to change their tune regarding "reasonable" preventative measures on future sites. I'll bet reasonable includes quite a bit more than it used to. I still believe there needs to be complete reform in the process at the corporate/government levels, for the long run. Here's another thing that I don't understand. Keep in mind, I don't know crap about drilling: So, why does a relief well have to be drilled 20,000 or so feet deep? Why can't you drill a hole at an angle to a merge depth of 1000 feet and plunge into the current hole with a sort of diverter. Then, the new hole serves as the syphon/relief. Is there some technical reason this can't be done? Perhaps the casing of the current well is too tough to crack?
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06-02-2010, 09:17 AM | #299 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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cimmaron: the relief well question is answered a couple times on the oil drum site, but i haven't time at the moment to find it. i suspect you can search it up if you have a moment. if you do, please post it as i think this is one of the questions that will puzzle other drilling dilletantes. i'm another.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
06-02-2010, 10:06 AM | #300 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Quote:
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BP failed, regulation failed. More or different regulation will not prevent regulation from failing. If you want to understand what happened you have to understand, why certain risks are being taken. If you are interested in a new regulatory frame work you have to understand the folly in emotion based knee-jerk reaction. Both are very relevant to the issue at hand. Threadjack indeed! You want me silenced, you don't want your view-point challenged!
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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06-02-2010, 10:29 AM | #301 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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ace:
there's alot of information in the thread already and if it keeps going there'll be alot more to come. it'd be good to make an concerted attempt to keep things on topic. obscuring things with some grand declaration of Agenda followed by vague ibd editorial infotainment that tries to blame "environmentalists" for the deepwater and exxon valdez is not a good example of such an attempt. but please, by all means, feel free to start other threads about broader questions if you think them important. and don't you worry your pointy little head about anything you say challenging my viewpoint.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 06-02-2010 at 10:34 AM.. |
06-02-2010, 11:34 AM | #302 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Quote:
Here is the OP: Quote:
My two posts are directly related to the issue presented in the OP. Sincerely, Ace, from my "pointy little head"
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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06-02-2010, 01:46 PM | #303 (permalink) |
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Location: ❤
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I've been wondering about the Atlantis, since this Horizon incident.
I posted this first link a few pages back: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...4QtbQD9FNEG4G0 And now this: Whistleblower Sues to Stop Another BP Rig From Operating - ProPublica Last edited by ring; 06-02-2010 at 01:49 PM.. |
06-03-2010, 07:10 AM | #304 (permalink) | ||
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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interesting...i'm running late this morning but saw this in the guardian:
Quote:
that bp lacked the technologies necessary to deal with this seems one of the more obvious statements in the history of statements, but still it's i suppose heartening to see such transparency from a corporation which has been transparency challenged these past weeks. oil drum post about what's happening at the bottom of the ocean: The Oil Drum | BP's Deepwater Oil Spill - The New Plan: Shears, Working on the Riser, and Wed. Open Thread 3 ---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 PM ---------- so two weeks later in the washington post the same information as was contained in the mother jones story about bp controlling media access to the coast of louisiana. because "it's bp's oil" Quote:
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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06-03-2010, 07:48 AM | #305 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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It is unlikely Tony Hayward will get through this and keep his job, he will address a group of shareholders and analysts on the 4th. BP's debt rating has been lowered by one rating agency. BP has to face the possibility of selling assets to cover costs of clean up, damages and stopping the leak. He has failed. Others have failed also, some within government - who should be held accountable? where does the buck stop? Who is in charge?
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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06-03-2010, 09:34 AM | #306 (permalink) | ||
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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the captains of industry and finance are perhaps considering and not considering bp:
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i would expect that if bp is taken over or threatened with it, or if it tries to split itself, that the federal government would have little choice but to nationalize its us operations. but they're having some pr trouble: FT.com / Companies / Oil & Gas - BP faces public relations disaster as is the louisiana fishing industry: Quote:
a story from a few days ago about the marshes: Oil Cleanup Poses Risks In Louisiana's Fragile Marshes : NPR and another element about bp's information management: http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/6bwnjH...ummer-2010/r:f
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 06-03-2010 at 10:39 AM.. |
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06-03-2010, 12:44 PM | #307 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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Deepwater Horizon oil spill - Encyclopedia of Earth
this is a quite good, comprehensive resource that outlines the situations that the thread has been tracking and puts things in context...it's particularly useful for understanding the oil leakage, the environmental concerns, who/which agencies are doing what with how many people and for how long they've been doing it, antecedent spills and so forth. one reason this disengenuous "who's in charge" stuff can keep surfacing from the drill baby drill set is the lack of information co-ordination. it's the kind of thing that happens inside a short attention span media environment when it processes a long and complicated disaster. a made-for-tv disaster is much faster than this and has fewer moving parts.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
06-04-2010, 06:05 AM | #308 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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i put a couple central points from this 12 may abc article in bold. they show what's been clear through the thread.
(1) the most fully elaborated response to the disaster at the deepwater horizon is information control. (2) the least elaborated response to the disaster at the deepwater horizon is the technologies required to address both the oil that continues to spill into the gulf and the clean-up operations. Quote:
meanwhile, the drama surrounding bp's newest attempt to divert the flows from around the riser are best tracked here: The Oil Drum | BP's Deepwater Oil Spill - Capping the Riser - Part 1 (Cap on, but leaks) - and Open Thread there's a serious disconnect between what's being issued publicly and what's happening underwater. so what you look at depends on what you want to know, i suppose. and while that's going on, balls of tar are washing up on florida panhandle beaches Waves of oil tar mount on Fla. Panhandle beaches | NOLA.com and elsewhere: Recent oil sightings, and bird rescues, in four coastal Louisiana parishes | NOLA.com
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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06-04-2010, 06:20 AM | #309 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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Here's another way to show the scale of the disaster.
Find out how much of your neighbourhood would be affected by a spill of that size: IfItWasMyHome.com - Visualizing the BP Oil Disaster
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
06-04-2010, 09:21 AM | #310 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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here's a new-ish page with streams for 12 rov things that are operating around the deepwater riser.
Live feeds from remotely operated vehicles | Response in video | BP it's kinda hard to imagine the basis for saying things are going well given what i'm seeing. have a look: Live feeds from Skandi ROV1 ---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ---------- =========================================== a little later: http://mxl.fi/bpfeeds/ 9 simultaneous feeds. pretty surreal.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
06-04-2010, 11:30 AM | #311 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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good old b fucking p:
Quote:
so the splitting of operations is already being floated, a containment move which i would be surprised is being done not to deal with some imaginary anti-british sentiment but as a way of separating off the main operations from an entity that the us government can seize---and in the process enable bp to shed responsibility. maybe. financial times seems to have a bit of an infotainment lag, but posted this: BP’s investor call: what are the prospects for the dividend? | FT Energy Source | FT.com
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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06-04-2010, 12:15 PM | #312 (permalink) |
still, wondering.
Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge
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Ain't that pretty? The b's run away when you p your pants. As's been stated, we'll pay.
It's happened before. Not to be political, as money is: I shy away from acknowledging my many failures, so how much more so should "one" with the means to? Allowing bp the freedom to operate in the gulf seems to me an acceptance of the burden of their failure.
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06-05-2010, 07:00 AM | #313 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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more information about the cavalier approach to basic safety and environmental considerations embodied by bp enabled by the nature of petroleum industry regulation.
Quote:
here's a kind of mea culpa piece from an oil industry person. it's interesting stuff http://dailyhurricane.com/2010/06/my...of-itself.html last night i was in a publick house with a comrade having a conversation about petro-capitalism, which doesn't seem an extraordinary thing to call it once you start looking around your living space or spaces that you move through and inventory even if quickly the commodites that contain petroleum or petroleum by-products. like everything thats plastic. paint. lubricants that allow clocks to turn. insulation on cables. or widen it out and link each commodity back to the production processes. leaving aside the obvious areas of transportation. it's kind of amazing how pervasive oil is. it's e.v.e.r.y.w.h.e.r.e. in this model of capitalism, everywhere in the mode of production (the forms of social being that correspond to the narrower modes of social being that cluster around economic activity. think about it, though. and your car is just the tip of it, the obvious commodity. and it needs fuel, so you're locked into continuous consumption of more. ride a bike you need tires. and a bike is a mass produced object. just saying.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 06-05-2010 at 07:09 AM.. |
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06-05-2010, 07:23 AM | #314 (permalink) |
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Location: ❤
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Mr. McGuire: I just want to say one word to you -just one word. Ben: Yes sir. Mr. McGuire: Are you listening? Ben: Yes I am. Mr. McGuire: 'Plastics.' Ben: Exactly how do you mean? Mr. McGuire: There's a great future in plastics. Think about it. Will you think about it? Ben: Yes I will. Mr. McGuire: Shh! Enough said. That's a deal. Thanks for all the good info, roach. Oh, and I am all for the immediate seizure of BP's assets. Last edited by ring; 06-05-2010 at 07:49 AM.. Reason: added |
06-05-2010, 03:20 PM | #315 (permalink) |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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I can't watch or read any more about this... too damn depressing.
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06-06-2010, 02:45 PM | #316 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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i hear that tully. i really do.
for example---when bp cut the riser off the wrecked drilling rig, they increased the oil flow by about a quarter. so capture of 20% of the oil leaking out of the pipe with the new cap thing means that the amount going into the ocean is more or less the same as before except now there's a cap in place. and less than 25% capture represents an increase in the amount of oil heading into the water. The Oil Drum: Europe | Deepwater Oil Spill - Pressure Tutorial - and Open Thread but it does let bp and the coast guard say something upbeat-seeming during this news cycle: BP capturing '10,000 barrels of oil' a day from Gulf of Mexico | Business | guardian.co.uk
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
06-07-2010, 09:36 AM | #317 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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this we know. i sometimes wonder if the onion is joking or not, though.
Quote:
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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06-07-2010, 11:13 AM | #318 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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How do you explain Tony Hayward's (CEO of BP) swagger?
Not only is he not thinking about being fired or resigning, he is positioning himself to be the greatest corporate leader of all time. Is he clueless? Simply arrogant? What is the deal? Questions I have been thinking about. First, BP has as of 12/31/09 balance sheet - $8.3 billion in cash. $30 billion in receivables. $22 billion in inventory. and about $7 billion in other current assets. These numbers are just their current assets not total some of which would be illiquid. Total shareholder equity is at $102 billion. In 2009 their net income was $21 billion. The market cap of the company (shares outstanding x share price) is $117 billion even after the dramatic drop in the share price. Let's assume about $20 billion to clean up the Gulf, that is about a one time hit to one year's profits. But, they are recovering 6,000 barrels of oil per day even with an ineffective "cap". Oil trades at about $70 per barrel. Even today they are getting $420,000 per day or $153,300,000 per year before costs. The well has not been shut down, the government has not taken any steps to remove BP from the "project"... ...know this is the kicker... Quote:
...the long-term value of all of their oil producing assets went up. Do you think the future value will be grater than the cost of "clean-up"? I am betting it will be. Not only will BP not get "fired", they are not going to have assets seized, they are going to get through this, run ads for positive PR, pay dividend when things settle down, and thanks to Obama make... mo' money, mo' money, mo' money...you got to love it when government takes care of big business while pretending to be really, really mad...so mad that Obama even clinched his jaw in a meeting once - according to his press secretary. Oh, and how many times do you we get to say BP lied to us before it simply sounds silly? And who do we want creating a new regulatory system, is it the folks getting lied to??? This is all why the CEO of BP walks and talks with a swagger.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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06-07-2010, 01:02 PM | #319 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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wow ace. what a display of conservative submissiveness. ceo worship. i'm not surprised. and i don't see a whole lot of substance to your post, really. it's obvious that bp's interests are only 40% invested in the gulf. it's obvious that they can pay a quite considerable sum for the clean-up and survive.
it's also obvious that they've been entirely irresponsible in developing safety and/or environmental procedures to accompany deep-water drilling. it's also obvious that they knew there were potential problems in these areas for quite some time before the deepwater horizon. it's obvious that they had a business model that was predicated on avoiding making the requisite investments in the plans and technologies that would have been good to have in place before the deepwater horizon disaster. it's also obvious that neo-liberal style regulation played a very significant role in enabling that business model...it was structured around the regulatory system, in a symbiotic relation with it, presupposed it. it's also obvious that bp was far more prepared to deal with spills of information than spills of oil and it is obvious that haywood has been a central mouthpiece for the corporate damage control apparatus just as it's obvious that you like the damage control because it speaks to some bizarre-o attachment to manly man corporate types who appear to be Doing Things. but in reality, ace, bp's ability to continue doing business in the gulf is under review by the epa and much hinges on a story that's not finished unfolding yet and despite your fact and analysis free assurance that nothing will happen, it is not at all given that nothing will happen. nor is bp buying futures a real indication of a reality beyond the internal perceptions of bp as to the future. that said, even as there's reason to think that the cap had reduced the actual flow of oil by about 25% given the increase in flow into the gulf caused by cutting the riser, i still hope they figure out a way to do better in containing the oil. unlike you, who seems to rely on pollyanna stories from bloomberg, folk with more approximate information about reality aren't terribly optimistic. but you don't particularly seem to care about the leak or the damage or what is or is not being done to clean the oil---you're interested in whether bp can make money off the spill. which is perverse. but whatever floats your boat. it's surely easier that looking at the ugly realities in the gulf. but ecological concerns are for sissies, and your on your knees in front of an image of tony haywood, the greatest ceo of all times.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
06-08-2010, 06:12 AM | #320 (permalink) | ||
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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this speaks for itself:
Quote:
here are some counter-images, altered bp logos submitted to greenpeace uk: Behind the Logo - a set on Flickr i think this an interesting space of what amounts to information war. meanwhile, back under the water: Quote:
so yeah bp. a great bunch. and tony haywood, the greatest ceo of all times. one thing is clear at least: any illusion that privatization increased freedom at the level of information anyway should be entirely out the window thanks to the brand triage antics of this corporate person....
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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Tags |
101, apocalypse, booming, fails, fire, front, gulf, katrina, louisiana, obama, oil, rig, row, school, seats, spill, time |
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