State of TFP 2010 and its future
 

I have been doing stuff about the boards behind the scenes. I haven't really been posting so much mostly because the time that I do have has been behind the scenes and doing research on some new software and upgrades.

In February 2009 Halx announced that he would be taking a step back from the day to day operations and goings on of TFP. He passed the responsibility to me. I don't think we ever made a community announcement, but we did acknowledge it among the staff. It gave me the fire to complete some things that I had kept on the back burner. Most were minor updates, but nothing that has added much functionality but definitely enhanced the community experience. Sometimes, when I see Halx posting often I forget that but I'd like to remind myself and the rest of the community that the buck stops here with me. If you have any issues or comments about the site or staff members, please remember that I am very approachable and will take time to listen to your concerns.

There are a few other staffing changes that you may have noticed. The admins have added another admin back into the fold, amonkie to help us with some of the more technical workload. World's King was also brought back as a moderator. He is a long time member with strong opinions on keeping this place running smoothly, and practically omnipresent in chat. Guccilvr is no longer a staff member but I'd like to thank him for his years of service on the staff, his dedication and passion for this place runs really deep. Please remember to thank them for their hard work and contributions.

A few months ago we split off the Erogenous Zone into its own website. The link that you see on the home page will more than likely be removed in the near future. They are separate sites with separate databases. Right now they have the same themes so it's a little confusing to the eye. I plan on working on similar yet different themes in the next few weeks. There is a good amount of work that needs to be done there to bring it up to standards that help differentiate it from the TFP Discussion community. If anyone in the community would like to create a new logo for the TFP Erogenous Zone, it would be very helpful.

We're in discussions as to how to move the site to the next level and we'll make an announcement in the near future. I'm writing this prematurely mostly because this is the first time that I've had an opportunity to sit and actually write something here. I have to say that the staff has lots of ideas and not only do we have to figure out which ones to implement but also what time frame it's going to get done in. I would also like to solicit some ideas from the community. There are no guarantees that we'll implement your ideas, but it gives us a good idea as to what you may be looking for as a community. We want to improve the interaction, the discussion, and the experience here at Tilted Forum Project which in turn will attract more individuals to interact and discuss issues. In order to achieve this, just like the discussions, we need your participation.

I plan on presenting some more information as soon as we've completed the plans and time lines.

Thanks to you Cyn, Halx and everyone else that has been associated with keeping this forum so vital for so long.

Looking forward to the future.

Thanks for the info.

It's good to know what's going on behind the scenes :).

As long as you aren't planning to implement Facebook log-in like every other site on the internet seems to be doing, I'm game.

Actually, logansnake, we implemented a Facebook login option awhile ago, but it's only an option so you probably didn't even notice :)

I thought it was just to link articles to your page. Alrighty.

If you log out you'll see that you can log in via Facebook Connect and Google/AOL/Open ID.

I didn't make a major announcement because most wouldn't associate their real life account to here anyways.

That's probably the problem. I don't even know where there log-out button is unless I look for it...

WTF You can log out!?

Why aren' there more puppies?

Heh, "They check in... but they don't check out."

I think I've only ever pressed that button once, just to see if it'd work. Otherwise, I just time out and have to re-login again.

Just like a Roach Motel!

Seriously I really enjoy the site, though I probably lurk too much . Keep up the good work. I find it very stimulating to follow many of the discussions. Thanks to all of you that keep it running smoothly.

I vote for "More beer, and bigger women!" :D

I fixed that for you.

Bigger? As in size wise?

I'm with Eden on this. :surprised:

I think this pretty much shows that TFP is going to hell and not coming back. This is the first sign, when LS and I agree on something.

When WK and I start being nice to each other and I start thinking that Martian "isn't that bad of a guy" the end will be upon us.

Bring back hard core moderation. Seriously.

While I'm as big a fan of the one liner as anyone, some of this shit has gotten out of hand. On a forum that deals a lot about sexualtiy, some of the discussion has really not progressed, evolved or moved forward like it used to.

Describe.

heh. good luck with that.

Not downing your idea, just saying hardcore moderation died a LONG time ago and knowing what I know, I can't see it coming back. Although, when it comes to this place, I'm wrong quite a bit.

That's an interesting idea. Seriously. It's a discussion I'm open to having and one that makes sense in terms of some of the things to come.

I was admittedly in a piss poor mood last night I thought I'd come back and revisit this and see if i was in better sorts today.

As I think about it, I still feel this way for the most part. There are areas of the board and certain subjects that just need to be treated maturely. I've been as guilty as anyone with inappropriate responses and was called out by other members before moderation became necessary. I'd like to think tfp could handle damn near any topic without the need for anonymous posting.

Psycho, thanks for that. I agree we need to elevate the level of discourse and our community does do a good job at help that along. At the same time I think that sometimes, the community equally hinders it in the same manner when it doesn't want to evolve.

So what you're all implying is that we're going back to the Nazi* regime?

Can you give some examples of what you're talking about? I haven't seen any threads that require "good ol' days" style moderation in a long ass while and those that do, actually have a mod present.

I'm confused.


*Goodwined 24 posts in.

I'm not quite sure what you all mean by hardcore moderation (I think I know what you mean) but I can get on board with cracking down on some of the one-liners as well as just locking threads when they disintegrate.

I feel like since the hall of fame went up, some threads just degenerate into a 'lets see if we can get this into the HoF' contest. Thread that really don't have anything going for them. Example: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...bits-nsfw.html. The OP is gone and the whole rest of the discussion...well, you can see for yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I love the HoF and I want it to stay, but I feel like it should be like fight club. We all know that it's there, but nobody should even acknowledge it, except in the nomination thread, of course.

Thanks for putting the rules back up.

sorry 'bout that...........


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...g?t=1268359660

we never got rid of the rules... they just got less detailed because people were lawyering them to death.

I always thought that idiotic threads like that one (where the OP posted something drunk and then regretted it the next day like fucking a fat chick) are considered "open threads". They have no purpose so and are not going anywhere... so why not fill them up with nonsense since the original OP failed before he/she/it/World'sKing actually got out the gate. It's already wasted space, why not fill it up with something funny?

I've seen that on other threads, but if we are against that, then why not just have a mod delete the thread after the OP edited his original post with an "My Bad I'm Drunk". You could also move it to Nonsense and say "Do what you want, just don't break anything".

If anyone is going to post tits in a thread threadjackstyle, I nominate Redlemon or Bobby to do it.

Well, it lowers the level of discourse, which is I think the sort of thing I think we're talking about. It also makes it look like an acceptable sort of thing to do - even when the thread hasn't disintegrated. Some folks aren't as good at context as others and when they do it in a more serious thread, that is a problem. Doing something about it in a more serious thread leads to things like 'so and so did it over in that other thread', 'mods play favourites', 'tfp is teh suxxors!', 'this place has been ruined'. It also has a tendency to build on itself and derail perfectly good threads making it seem like an 'open thread'.

Want to move it to nonsense? That's ok, I guess, it still has entertainment value, but I'd rather those threads just be locked so they can fade into oblivion.

When the OP deletes a message.. there's no point in "mature" discourse at that point.

I see nothing wrong with having some fun. Just locking everything down and being all hardcore all the time is pure suck.

Exactly. The only reason I became more active in this forum is because the "POST ON TOPIC OR ELSE!" ideology was mostly done away with and sticks came out of certain collective assholes.

If it comes back, meh, I guess I'll creep back into the shadows 'cause that shit wasn't fun.

I mean we have seen threads die 6 posts in when the OP basically says "Well, these are all good ideas, but I'm going to do the most bonehead move possible, kthxbye." After that? Why talk to a brick wall when we can draw funny images on it and throw tomatoes at it.

It isn't like we are derailing serious conversations, most of the threads in question (posted by the randoms) are in T Life or T Sex and are inane conversations to begin with.

I haven't seen many threads locked here anyway, what's the point in locking it if we can just delete it. I mean how many times do we have to say "Banging your sister-in-law is bad", "If you are not comfortable with your bf pooing on you, then don't do it.", or "Being married doesn't mean she is required to give you a HJ/BJ everyday." It isn't like 90% of the random posters in there listen to anything anyone has to say.

I know IRL when the conversation dies, I make jokes. Why can't we do that here?

Wait.... what?

basically he called you the titty threadjack man.

Hmm. I've threadjacked, and I've posted nudity. I don't recall doing them simultaneously. I'll have to consider this further.

And it appears I've assisted in threadjacking this thread, which was not my intention.

No no, I was referring to the fact that Woods threadjacked the "Fiancé Phone Habits (NSFW)" thread with ugly boobies. Redlemon posts really nice boobies (in an artisy-fartsy way) in threads. Therefor if anyone is going to posts boobies to derail a thread, I'd like them to be NICE boobies.

Just making a point.... I like nice boobies.

Probably they mean "hardcore" as in "arbitrary and capricious" like you get on Facepunch or (at least politically) Cybernations. Imagine the unholy union of a random number generator, the principal of a Zero Tolerance school (linked for an example), and a grammar nazi.

I'm pretty sure most of us do as well.

And this has been another episode of Lord Eden's Moments of Wisdom.

One-liner'd!

...

Did he really write that? Anyway... I concur wholeheartedly. I think the magic of TFP is that real The More You Know (TM) answers abound as much as witty quips and random titty shots. I'm probably one of the more guilty one-liner idjits on the board, but I'd like to think that I inject a little useful material here and there to warrant sticking around. "Hardcore moderation," as far as I understand it, would force those of us free spirits to be far more... uh... concise... with our posts (not necessarily a bad thing on the face) but will definitely serve to step on the collective dick of TFP's snarky humor.

No.

What's meant is that we no longer tolerate one-line responses or thread derailment. The staff is not "arbitrary and capricious". We do not edit or punish for political views. I think our rules are clear and easily understood.

That said, I'm entirely for raising the bar for the definition of an acceptable conversation around here. I've certainly been responsible for more than my fair share of some of the dumbing down here, but I'm trying to do better.

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------

And Plan9, you know I like a joke as much (or more than) the next guy. Being funny won't ever go out of style here. Being funny to the point of derailing the conversation, though, that's something different.

I've been around here a long time, and I agree with Jazz. I've never seen the staff do something without a good reason for it. Generally, if they take action, there is an obvious violation of the guidelines.

What if a one liner is an appropriate response to the original post?

Q. I'm depressed. What do I do?

A. See a counselor (as TFP collective would advice).

Would that be unacceptable?

NOTE: Of course, this is taking into consideration that the administration would even allow a one sentence OP. Let's assume I summarized it.

And as little as that is arbitrary and capricious it is, in my opinion, even less hardcore. I'd call that basic moderation against spamposts. Maybe I'm too used to stricter forums but that sounds to me more like a routine discouragement of contentless posting rather than some sort of digital crackdown deserving of the title of "hardcore moderation".

When someone calls for hardcore moderation personally I'd expect the term to refer to something, yknow, extreme.

Well, I don't see a problem with that and I don't think anyone else would either. I'm thinking replies along the lines of:

A. Do a line of coke out off hooker's ass.

Followed by:

A. Make sure you kill her and shove her in the trunk then.

Followed by:

A. Make sure you bang her before you put her in the trunk, but not before you kill her.

Not that it isn't funny or won't actually make the person feel better (it could). But I didn't think that's quite what we're about here at the TFP.

+1

//edit: I realize not everything is here is so clear cut. Shades of grey and all that. Maybe some gentle reminders are in order more often to cut down on that sort of thing.

Oh yeah, this is a good point. For those of us who've been here for a hot weekend, that kinda thing has really lost its charm. Certain individuals who constantly post such types of lame comments have no value in the community in my eyes. If they can't push out a pearl of wisdom for every dozen turds, what's the point of letting them hang around? Because they've always been here? I'm not a genius, but I'd imagine TFP is just as susceptible to cronyism as any other "higher learning institution" on the Web. You can be an asshole all you want, but if you're not a useful asshole... then there is no point to allowing you to occupy inches in what could be great threads. I'm cool with that kind of hardcore moderation: Occasional Content or GTFO.

Shadowex3, I don't think you've been here long enough to have enough perspective on what does or doesn't happen at the TFP. Not that you can't easily fix that and revisit the question later, but comparing us to other places and trying interpret those rules for this space seems ... unfair. I'm really not interesting in what you think does or does not qualify as "hardcore moderation" since it's my role to take my own definition and make it a reality.

And Hektore, your point about us not being perfect is well-timed and well-taken.

Good for you, and technically me too since that's not remotely what I'm doing. I don't know why you're trying so very hard to make this out as though I'm trying to do something I'm not.

All I've said is that your idea of "hardcore" moderation doesn't sound remotely deserving of a title that makes it sound like some kind of iSharia for TFP, it sounds more like routine moderation to stop spam. I mentioned other forums purely as an example of what DOES deserve such an ominous titling, not out of some kind of subtle attempt to demean TFP.

Someone mentioned bringing "hardcore" moderation, someone else said they weren't sure what the first person meant by "hardcore", I made a half-serious half-tongue in cheek suggestion of what "hardcore" could mean, You said what you ACTUALLY plan to do, I said I think it sounds like a completely sane and reasonable course of action. How does any of that translate to my having joined only 3 years ago compared to your 7, and how is making unfair comparisons?

Just calm down and accept the compliment on your sanity and reasonability, that's all it was.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/b...nsane/Tits.jpg

One line comment.

(edit: molest me with your yellow text, I dare you)

Thanks for the compliment.

I don't think it's a personal issue, but I do think that we're trying to beat the rafters and get more people like you to stop lurking and start participating at a mature and discussable level. It's hard to have a discussion with someone who just sits off to the side and never says anything but just watches.

When the TB used to be here, it was from time to time we had to turn it off so that people would actually say hello. We don't have that choice anymore since it is now it's own site. Thus, we've got to find ways to encourage people to participate. Lowering the bar I find tends to get people to come out of their shell but the discussions are shallow. Raising the bar, makes it a bit harder, but positing thoughtful responses is the hope to challenge someone to include their own thoughts and press submit.

Hrm, I meant that edit to go with the top half of that post, not the bottom half. I can see how in it's current format it reads quite differently. I honestly think the staff here does a quite good job on their own, without reminders from the peons. I have never observed a mod or admin (or owner for that matter) to be arbitrary or capricious (at least with the enforcement of rules).

What I meant was gentle reminders to the members (PMs) when they repeatedly leave a crappy post that threatens to derail a thread to let them know they need to add some substantive content once in a while to their (not so) clever quips.

Plan9: Exactly.

Well, I'm confused. What kind of audience are we catering to these days? As you said, the "Just Boobs" crowd has its own little whack shack now, insulated from the intellectual side of TFP. If said intellectual side "lowers the bar" to stimulate conversation and draw out those that don't have enough "balls" to post on an anonymous web forum, is that really the kind of content that we want or is it meant to be some type of switch-a-roo trap?

I don't think you can sucker people in with bouncing boob .gifs and TheJazz's fart jokes and then expect them to put out a brilliant discourse on the fundamentals of family financial planning and how to deal with marital problems that stem from having three screaming children and a profound lack of blowjobs. I don't think having a giant crowd of lurkers is a problem nor does it require some type of remedy. Some people will just be passive.

...

I'm thinking TFP needs more fliers and stickers in the real world and less moderation craziness as it is discussed in this thread.

I'm sure that there are always going to be a percentage of people that are passive, just like there are always wallflowers at the dance. I'd like to believe that by getting someone involved at a level different than their normal can be some great stimulation. So thus, non-participatory to participatory and finding that people don't think you're stupid for posting your opinion, or someone already posted something close to what you want to say gives everyone a platform and a stake within the community.

We didn't sucker anyone, people came for the boobs and stayed for the discussion. Now we don't have boobs, new arrivals, what do they see? what's the attraction? Yes, Jazz's fart jokes, one liners. What else?

If you accept the premise that the current situation with TEZ is similar to Overclocked ReMix's actions with their "unmod" forum then I would say the problem is that you're trying to split things where they oughtn't be split. Having Tez right here is a bit like having a permanent onboard freakshow but it also greatly increases the chances that someone will see what else is here and get active in other parts of the forum.

Splitting the two leaves a few people like me that will probably go to both regularly but seperately while polarizing each side further away from each other. Most people who desire stimulating intellectual conversations will try to do it in person, most people who desire to watch women do things with various orifices that even Leviticus never thought of will do so online. Those two groups of people overlap more than the first would ever be willing to admit although admittedly less than the last brags of.

My point, rambling and sleep deprived as it is, is that ya'll should at least preserve offsite links to and from TEZ and TPF whereupon various passersby can... passby... the airlock of offsite links between dual handed anal fisting and the duality of fisticuffs in the mind of the anal retentative. And yes I did just say ya'll, anal fisting, and whereupon in the same sentence, I'm as suprised as you are.

Now the usual hazing may commence. I'll get back to everyone who wishes to tell me I'm too new/crazy/delusional to know what I'm talking about tomorrow when I'm capable of remembering that TF2 doesn't have parachutes and Battlefield 2 doesn't have broadswords.

That probably will be the way it draws itself out, since the communities are somewhat symbiotic. It just won't be on the front page for unregistered people to see. From the analytics tho, quite honestly, not many people go from here to there that are part of the discussions.

When we removed the link temporarily, the searches for the TB shot up and the names that followed those searches were not recognizable to your every day poster. There are some that I had to look up to see when they registered and just how many times they've posted. Some posted less than 10 times since 2003. I'm not sure that that level of lurking or participation qualifies as being an active member aside from just having logged on or even just clicked a bookmarked link that had "remember me" checked off. Little to no effort. Why should I be so concerned about such folks? What is the benefit? What is the loss?

re-evolving with the tfp:

memory is like compost:
all new input can help build the pile,
thus tfp is working.

I'm really happy constant content isn't required, for obvious reasons, but a concise two cents often strikes me as more useful & thought-provoking than reams of data. My thanks to the staff for your patience & support.

I think I may have invoked a negative connotation for some when I mention "hard core moderation" I wasn't implying that there be some Draconian moderation system implemented, but a return to sorting what was going to be a worthwhile and on topic discussion of some of the board's more sensitive and intimate subjects.

I once lobbied to let posts that the moderation staff felt not worthy to stay be kept open because if they were in fact not worth keeping they would die on their own. As it turns out I was wrong and those posts have been fodder for more or less bullshit piling on of the OP at some times. Seems the "PM a moderator and explain why the post should be reopened" policy was not a bad one.

I've been on other boards that I've shit all over. However I am as apt to attend a Nickelback concert as I am a ballet. But I'm not going to attend The Sleeping Beauty and act and dress the same way I would at a Seether concert. I've always seen this board having different standards and my conduct should be appropriate.

I find it interesting that in a thread that asks people to avoid one line responses, there are a number of unmoderated one line responses - some by staff.

<second line to avoid hypocrisy>

ok now that there is some baseline discussion taking place I might actually have something to add.

"content" is a nebulous word, vague, endless, yet still fitting in the sizzling pan, like runny eggs at the mercy of a moderators spatula.

I write nonsense, I consider myself a content writer, I'm sure some people disagree. I mostly write game/movie reviews with little regard to if it's actually creating content here or not, I do it because I feel like it. Ask me my opinion of Dante's Inferno, FFXIII, WoW, or a myriad of other games, I'll have some learned words to rattle off about it. Ask me about politics, I'll unleash a barrage of bitterness at how fucked the system is. Ask me about boobies? Actually, no, don't I'll probably just go on and on about how much I miss Jennaboo4u posting here :p

Do people think that some dude who has an opinion about some things, and not others = content?

*shrug*

I wouldn't worry about it. The thing is, the word moderation is self defining in a way. I've seen forums overmoderated in to extinction, and others undermoderated to the point that spam & or flame wars marred the "reputable" forum look forever.

That said, moderators also stand to get bored when nobody is stirring up shit and breaking rules. So sometimes they have to make more rules or face the fear that the community doesn't need them, and become marginalized.

My personal opinion is that a one liner isn't going to hurt anyone or kill the flow of a conversation, I'm perfectly capable of reading it in 0.5 seconds, rolling my eyes, and moving on to the next post.

Besides, Succinct delivery is far more memorable in the long run than the wordy wendys.

I can't remember a single one of Host's posts about his various stances on politics.

but I can tell you right now.

Ustwo's "new pussy" is immortal.

Always has to be someone to be the smart ass in the classroom right?

If I end it there, it's the kind of one liner that doesn't further the discussion, which is just a zinger and that's it. What's the point because it's funny? It's fun?

Here's the issue Daniel, if we moderate we're too heavy handed. If we don't, it's we're being hypocritical and not caring. How do we strike the balance? More than likely by applying common sense appropriately.

If TFP wasn't funny and fun at least some of the time, it would die.

Stop trying to please everybody. There will always be somebody who isn't happy no matter how hard you try. TFP cannot be the perfect forum for every person, there is no one size fits all. I enjoy it here, however it's not for everybody. I know many people who would find it's rules too stuffy. I think they provide a good balance between chaos and order.

I understand traffic is down, really I do. How do people find TFP, where do most of our newer members come from? If we want to increase traffic, people have to find out we exist, they need to know why they should spend their forum time here rather than one of the other bajillion boards just like this one. We are really not that unique when it comes to what we provide, so we need to look at increasing traffic the same way any business would look at increasing sales. How do we get more customers through the door?

cj, thanks for that reminder both for fun and trying to please everyone.

I'm not trying to please everyone. I'm trying to make sure that we're even and appropriate if and when we do moderate someone's post. One of the discussions the staff is having is how to moderate positively since most see and understand moderating as a negative thing. I was just editing my post when you quoted it, but that's where common sense should come into play. You don't fart and joke around at a funeral since it's generally not appropriate.

I can't do traffic by myself, neither can the staff, so I've asked the community for help in a post in Members Playground.

I think TFP does moderation fairly well. Nobody likes having their posts edited/removed, especially when things are already a bit heated. I do however agree that it never hurts to look in the mirror and give oneself an honest appraisal.

I saw the post in Members Playground. I think that content is just one part (albeit a very important part) of the picture. I'll ask again, how do potential members even know we exist? I did a google search using the terms "General Discussion Forum" and came up w/ 128,000,000 results. This what I mean by us not being all that unique. I like to think we do what we do better than most, but if people don't know we exist, how does more content help?

The membership is pulp. The forums is orange juice. Given the current state of membership, the pulp is currently simmering at the bottom with a few fibers floating around the top. What Cynthetic wants to do is take a big-ass spoon and mix it all together so that there is more perceived activity.

As cj pointed out, the problem is exposure. No matter how hard you try to mix the pulp, the orange juice is still inside the glass.

----------------------------------------------------

I am one of those people who is not a fan of what moderation used to be like. I didn't post much because there was that ever present feeling that if I didn't post a War and Peace sized post, then it would be deleted or warned or otherwise moderated in whatever fashion. I visit the forum to shoot the shit. Shooting the shit, to me, does not always mean writing full thought out sentences and paragraph long posts.

Discussion is good, but not when it's forced. It felt forced. Right now it doesn't, but it also doesn't sit well with certain people. Understandable, given the direction this forum will try to go in, but as it has been pointed out - you can't please everyone. It will alienate more than a few people.

People don't find us by searching for General Discussion Forum. They find us by very specific thread content. Whatever topic that person is searching for be it CosPlay, DHS, Ziegfield girls, etc.


ziegfeld girls - Google Search

This search we're on the first page. This is how we've been getting traffic.

Jetee's Cosplay thread, it got picked up by Kotaku.com, it netted us some traffic. I'm not sure new users, but we are still getting lots of referrals from that initial post.

LS, I don't know why people continue to have the impression that there is a requirement write up a huge post or response. Again, common sense, there's no reason for a dissertation in the Entertainment threads, when a "I can't wait!" or "OMFG that's so cool!" is sufficient.

The statements I have made do not or are not intended for that. Look here, you've posted several times, and I've responded, look, there's a discussion!

I'm not trying to stir the pot to change perception. I can easily change perception without doing that. I've already taken such measures. If no one creates discussions, what will be discussed? Whatever form those discussions take, the staff needs to adjust to some degree.

People take things too literally on the internet sometimes. Sometimes because they want to be an ass, sometimes because they're trying (successfully or not) to provide lulz, and sometimes because they genuinely don't get it. I think the issue of one-liners is one that nobody is ever going to define, it's a No True Scotsman type issue. In any HEALTHY discussion there's always going to be a few of them, and some of them will probably be good and some will be bad.


When it comes down to it "You'll know it when you see it" is the only real way to define good and bad low-wordcount posts. If I'm in a thread and post a factual one-liner that clarifies and enlightens but I've got nothing else to say so I end it there it's obviously still a worthy post. If I'm in a thread and I get a few laughs but give no real content... it's probably not a worthy post. Or what if I say something with a lot of good points but it just has a low wordcount because I'm very succinct?

Can you objectively define any that beforehand? Not really since any real post probably includes elements of all three. An argument over these kinds of posts just won't ever end. The closest you can get is whether a post contributes in some meaningful way to the current thread of discussion. If it does provide genuine content in some way, or if it just takes up threadspace.

Yep, and it's often me. :D

Being funny and being fun are a key part of what TFP is about.

My point was that you cannot weigh quality. A short post can be pithy and apposite, on target and help further the discussion - a post like "have you considered it might be X" can steer something a way that helps it along, whilst at the same time another post could be full of verbiage and bluster but simply be re-stating items that had been covered above.

Having a standard of QUALITY is far more useful than having a standard of QUANTITY, but is also more subjective. Subjectivity sadly can become a popularity contest, and I have no idea how you resolve that.

I think everyone here can agree with the above. Of course it should be fun and the quality of the communication is most important.

I honestly think that it is not what I'm talking about. It doesn't happen often our community does not run roughshod like others. In fact, we've probably paid it more attention than it should be due. I think what not a single one of us can agree upon is where and when zingers and snark are appropriate because as Jazz has said before, sometimes they have broken the stalemate of the conversation.

I'd like to thank each and every one of you that is engaged in this conversation. It's a bit frustrating to me when I sit in my head and try to figure it out, but it's not my job to do it alone, that's why this is a community.

True but in the form that you have put it in. You see, I will forever remember the particular line I have quoted but will completely not appreciate fortune cookie phrases that mean nothing in place of advice. Elaboration is always good.

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

http://i.imgur.com/2LOsK.jpg

My kindred spirit speaks wise volumes. ^^^

I told a very shy, cute youngish man librarian about TFP..today.

That is a leap outside my hermitage zone.

As far as the overly boisterous young pups voicing incessant (look at me, hear me, love me.....noises,)
they eventually settle down after a few well-meant chomps to the neck.

Welcome to society.