Lindy

I wondered again, for about the umpteenth time. A couple of weeks ago, I walked through cold freezing drizzle and wind through about an acre's worth of blue sign "reserved for handicapped only" parking places to get to the door of Sam's Club.
Let me rephrase that: couple of weeks ago, I walked through cold freezing drizzle, sleet, rain,and wind through about an acre's worth of COMPLETELY EMPTY blue sign "reserved for handicapped only" parking places to get to the door of Sam's Club. Forty seven of them, (and one for the Employee of the Month)
Why are there so many of these specially reserved spaces, obviously a great many more than are actually needed? Is the Federal Government involved, perhaps?

Lindy

Plan9

Huh, that's funny.

Every time the two people I know (who have the right to park in said spaces) go out, they're often packed.

Let's assume that not all parking lots are laid out like Big Box stores and that many places have 2 or 4 spaces.

I like to blame all those jerkfaces... ya know, the ones missing limbs who have to wheel themselves around.

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"You should not drink... and bake."

snowy

Duh, the federal government is involved. In 1990, the Americans with Disabilities Act was signed into law by George H.W. Bush. Here is the specific section of the ADA that deals with parking: ADA Accessibility Guidelines

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genuinegirly

ADA dictates that for every given number of parking spaces (15 I think?), they must have 1 that is disability accessible. With a place like Sam's Club- you do the math.

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wooÐs

At the Publix I shop at, they have regular spaces closer to the store, on the same row, than the handicapped ones. Not many, but they're there. I guess it's due to the amount of empty space around the actual parking space, that the patron will have to maneuver their chair or what not.

And yeah, I park in those spaces. I'm not breaking any laws.

Martian

According to snowy's chart, either that's a really, really big Sam's Club, they've gone way over the prescribed amount, or you've miscounted. 47 accessible spots would suggest a lot with 3700 spots altogether. That's a lot of parking.

I don't mind walking, personally. Then again, I'm one of those crazy people who says that walking to the corner store (or even the grocery store) isn't a big deal.

What does piss me off is when people who have no need or right park in those spaces. If you've got two functioning legs, I can guarantee that walking an extra 20 feet won't kill you.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

wooÐs

Similar happens at the Walmart I shop at. One person will sit in the driver's seat while parked in the handicapped spot waiting, while Shoquanda runs in for hair grease. That's bullshit. Security needs to beef up on that.

Shauk

seems like most parking lots never hit capacity, cept maybe on black fridays. I think a lot of ablebodied people get those damned handicap passes too just for completely unrelated handicaps.

Oh well I'm missing half my vision in one eye! gimmie a pass! puh-lease bitch.

Manic_Skafe

Nice.

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wooÐs

It's not meant to offend anyone. No need to play the sensitive card. It's the truth. Folks sit there in their Navigators with the base blaring as if they have special permission to use the space. It's bullshit, REGARDLESS of their color.

If you've ever been to Atlanta, I'm certain you'd have a clearer understanding of what I'm referring to.

Manic_Skafe

I can hardly see a one word response as the playing of a card or an admission of sensitivity. However, those are a lot of words you've used in response.

Blah.

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wooÐs

You really didn't need to say much more lol.

I could have said 'Billy Sue ran in for chew' or 'Juan ran in for jalapenos.' It doesn't matter. I've lived in Atlanta for 14 years. And no matter what race you are, rude is rude. Unless you're handicapped, you don't get preferential treatment to park in handicapped spaces.

Plan9

You mean racism?

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

wooÐs

Yeah. I hate black people who aren't handicapped, who park in handicapped places. I'm such a racist.

Punk.of.Ages

Shoquanda's a racist term now?

Where does it end?
_______________

EDIT: Figured I should say something on topic...

Handicap spaces are against the laws of natural selection. Do away with them.

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Plan9

That's funny. "Laws of natural selection" would have probably done away with you as well, right? I mean... be honest.

I've found that people missing limbs are often more worthy of life than those who've got all their parts and an empty skull.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Manic_Skafe

Perhaps I'm just a fan of the words you chose or your apparent knowledge on Wal-Mart parking lots across Atlanta. You're the one that went there - why do you think that is?

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wooÐs

I don't know but if you ever call me a baklava-eating, Ouzo-sucking, thick-haired Theocles because I'm Greek, I'm pretty sure I won't be offended.

Martian

Baklava is tasty.

The narrative of racism here is odd. I read the comment as perhaps typecasting and perhaps in poor taste, but not explicitly racist.

The stereotype I'm familiar with is that rednecks shop at Wal-mart.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

wooÐs

It's not a puzzle, MS. Thugs line up the curb at Wally World. When the curb's full, they take up the handicapped spaces when they're not disabled. Plain and simple. Nothing to read into.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ----------

Baklava is delicious when made properly. I had some baklava cheesecake last week. Something amazing that I've never had in my life!

I just hate 'racism' bullshit and anyone who claims they're a 'minority.' Atlanta has no minorities. We're a fucking melting pot of colors, religions and genders / transgenders for Christ's sake.

And for the record, I hate everyone equally .

Punk.of.Ages

If the laws of natural selection were in place for us human beings, you, me, and the handicap folk would probably be a lot stronger for it.

Well, that or dead...

Win, win it seems.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

LoganSnake

People will see racism when they want to see racism.

Had wooÐs made a redneck joke, nobody would even bat an eyelash because it's cool to tell redneck jokes. Mention a name with a convention common to the black women and we have a 14-post discussion on the finer merits of natural selection and, well, racism.

Brilliant.

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dippin

And people will see accusations of racism when they want to see accusations of racism. Manic replied with one word, "nice." That that was immediately understood or assumed to be an accusation of racism tells me more about the passage he quoted than anything else.

Punk.of.Ages

Actually, the natural selection bit was my sarcastic fault...

Sorry to add to the derailing.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Plan9

My comment was regarding Atlanta in general, not an opinionated Person of WalMart. I see how it derailed things nicely. Sorry.

Deres racial tension in da Souf. Didn't spend much time in Georjha, but I used to have some propertuh in Souf Cackalackey.

...

The choice of the example used and the way it was framed isn't racist, merely a suggestion of some type of pigment-related animosity.

...

I think a lot of people make accusations about our buddy Skafe because he's such a goofy cracker and I'm black. I think that's unfair.

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"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

You know, accusations of racism aside (and I suggest dropping the whole deal, lest we ruin the thread), I think the problem in the OP is an issue of culture and expectations.

In places such as France, say, they don't mind walking for as much as 30 minutes to get where they're going. Walking the length of a parking lot (even if it were 50 or 100 spaces) isn't a big deal. I'm guessing it didn't take you more than 2 or 3 minutes to get to the store.

How long do you think it takes some handicapped people to set themselves up getting in and out of their vehicles?

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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Plan9

The problem? You had to say it.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Manic_Skafe

Dippin and Plan9 have said it nicely enough but just so that we're clear, I'm really not interested in assuming or accusing you of being a racist. I am much more interested in determining why chose to interpret my posts as you did, figuring what contributed to such an understanding and making clear that your hasty interpretation not only invalidates your argument that it's others who see racism where it isn't, but also says much more about yourself than you probably intended to.

On the whole, I'm not a big fan of stereotypes but I can draw a pretty clear distinction between them and racism.

Who's made the claim you're arguing against? Other than yourself, who's contributed such energy to this discussion?

All in all, there's some pretty interesting stuff lying underneath the surface that I believe to be worthy of discussion. It may not be appropriate to have it out in this thread but we'll never arrive at a clear enough understanding of where we're all coming from if we're too busy attempting to make clear what we're not saying and preemptively getting all defensive and butthurt.

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percy

I can understand handicapped parking spots available for those who need them. My question are how many are too many or too few for the area.

A little strip mall not far from my place has about 35 parking spots with one for handicapped parking. The strip mall has a store for people to get wheelchairs and other supplies for those who need them. ???

The mall a little further has a grocery store. The first 5 spots of every row (double sided), of about 10 rows has handicapped parking. The rows have about 50 cars each(25 bumper to bumper).

So out of 500 cars total in the lot, 50 are dedicated to handicapped parking. ????

I have been shopping at this mall for years and can count on 2 hands how many times I have seen anyone, handicapped or not using those spaces.

Go figure.

Redlemon

Careful with that. My friend had wacky knee tendons. Each step was Russian Roulette; either she was walking fine, or she couldn't walk. She had HP plates, and deserved them. You might have seen her and thought that she didn't.

I assume if you have the HP plates or tags, you have a reason to have them.

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ngdawg

I have two functioning legs, except one functions worse than the other. Walking 6 feet was impossible and now, 6 months later, it's painful. My tag runs out in a week.
If you are referring to the handicapped spaces and you are not tagged, yes you are, not to mention you are being rude. Here in NJ, the fine is minimum $100. While the fines might be regional, the use of specifically marked spaces without the appropriate tags WILL get you a ticket anywhere in the US. And seeing people do that really pisses me off.
Even with my tag, I won't park in them if I am not in dire pain.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Martian

I would argue that in both these cases the legs in question aren't wholly functional.

Look, I'm not saying it's wheelchair or bust, and I'm not unsympathetic. I'm well aware that the reason for having the tags may not be readily apparent. If you've got the tags, my assumption is going to be that it's because you need them.

But let's be honest here -- a lot of people have a major sense of entitlement. I've seen people parking in accessible spots without tags, because 'nobody was using it' or whatever bullshit reason they justify with. It's laziness, pure and simple. And for those people I have absolutely no patience whatsoever.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Plan9

For those without a plate/hang tag... you can always remove the valve stems of their tires while they're off in the store.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

snowy

Or you can just call the non-emergency line of the local law enforcement agency. I keep it in my cell phone, and yes, I do use it. The police here are more than happy to dispatch someone to deal with this.

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Baraka_Guru

Someone close to me has severe full-skeletal rheumatoid arthritis. She has had a metal plate inserted and then removed from her spine, both knees replaced, problems with her rotator cuff (that has progressed to a frozen shoulder), and will likely need to have her ankle fused. She actively manages agonizing chronic pain 24/7.

She's still mobile, thank god, especially since the majority of these problems started in her 40s and she has been dealing with them for around 20 years.

The thought of her not being able to get a handicapped spot because someone was ignorant and lazy enough to unduly park their ass there disgusts me just a wee bit.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Turns out the police outside the megalopolis of DC have better things to do. And flat tires are far more satisfying.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

telekinetic

I have one otherwise ablebodied mid-20's friend who has to take large injections every day to combat the pain from his crippling knee arthritis who rocks a handycap hang tag.

Also, my former boss has had a total of 13 knee surgeries. They do not fix the problem, they just reset the clock like a goddamn oil change and give him another 3000 miles, or whatever. He walks fine, until his tendons fail. Conserving steps is a priority. He also has a tag.

Finally, I don't assume everyone who needs to be close to the store has a hang tag. This is something I learned from my Dad. Much to the annoyance of my wife, I don't even play the parking spot game, I just park in the outfield where spots are plentiful and walk in, leaving the 'good' spots for people who need them more than I.

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twisted no more

Zeraph

Just wanted to point out that, while some people look able bodied, they probably need those places. They don't hand out handicap signs very easily. My dad for instance, looks young for his age (he looks 40 but he's actually 66), has arthritis, flat feet, and bone spurs (the worse, tons of pain.) So he looks semi young and able but the parking spaces really do make a difference for him throughout the day.

Daniel_

I get your point, but many forms of disability are not visible - you can have two legs but still not be able to walk far.

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

snowy

I learned it from my grandpa.

My maternal grandfather was crippled at a young age, and adamantly refused to believe he was handicapped. He never got a handicapped tag, though he could have easily qualified for permanent plates.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau