Be a virtual jerk, leads to real life jerk? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 07-07-2003, 05:17 AM

The fact that they have to make such a case about this, anyone who has been online for any amount of time, knows that are a bunch of childish, immature, little "children" out there, who seem to think that being a dick/asshole/jerk/fuckface is fun.

IMHO jerks exist everywhere and anywhere that is outside my own domain (read: my own home) in real life or virtually. I don't feel that I need to push anything to such an extreme. Even in the TFP community, there are people who seem to find it "fun" to get a rise out of everyone.

______________________

Game Sparks Bad Behavior Online Associated Press
Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,59539,00.html

10:03 AM Jul. 06, 2003 PT

NEW YORK - Jeremy Chase admits to shaking down his enemies. His website advertises extortion, hits and prostitution for a hefty fee.

Chase is a mob leader -- but only in the virtual world. He is one of hundreds of players who found the path of lawlessness and deviance too irresistible when The Sims Online challenged them to "Be Somebody ... else."

The popular commercial game, where thousands of people interact electronically, is turning into a petri dish of anti-social behavior. And that's raising questions about whether limits on conduct should be set in such emerging virtual worlds, even if they are huge adult playpens.

"Games give people the opportunity to either do something they've never had the ability to do before or allow them to do the stuff they are too afraid to do in real life," said Chase, an unemployed, self-described computer geek who lives in Sacramento, California. "This is as close to the real-life mafia that I'm going to be able to get."

All online games see their share of ne'er-do-wells, or "griefers." In other games where violence is the norm and killing routine, thugs delight in slaughtering the less powerful and stealing their loot.

But there are no guns in Sims, made by Maxis, and it's impossible to do serious harm to another player. That means griefers -- admittedly a small percentage of the game's 100,000 subscribers -- have to be devilishly creative in their social deviance.

Chase and others insist they're just role-playing like everyone else in the game. But harassment can be a big deal in Sims, which resembles a neighborhood of virtual dollhouses where you build a home and invite others to come over and play.

The game's raison d'etre is socializing; barely a half year old, it's the biggest game yet whose rewards come from making friends and being popular.

One mob tactic is gathering the foot-soldiers to stigmatize someone else with several so-called "red links" — a sort of demerit that shows others how many enemies a player has.

For gamers who have spent hours building a reputation, red links can be devastating. The platform may be virtual, but the attack isn't.

"It's only a game but the people operating those little animated cartoons are real," said Holly Shevenock, a postal worker from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Shevenock quit playing Sims because she was spending too much time in it -- up to five hours a day. "If you're not careful, you begin to play this game with your real emotions."

She and others said they knew several people who stopped playing or reduced their time online because of groups that seemed intent on harassment.

Psychologists who study online behavior say in-game spats and the visceral responses to them aren't surprising. With simulations becoming more lifelike, the line between real and fake is blurred.

"The more real you try to make these online worlds, the more the problems are real-world problems," said John Suler, a Rider University professor who specializes in the psychology of cyberspace. "It's not always easy to contain this stuff in the fantasy world."

The game's Terms of Service agreement tells players they cannot "harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another Member or guest that is unwarranted." They're also told, "The laws that apply in the off-line world must be obeyed online as well."

Maxis gives warnings, terminates threads in message boards, suspends players and in extreme cases, bans accounts. Chase himself endured a three-day suspension for what he said was foul language.

"We have a very big hammer to wield when we have to," said Kyle Brink, a Maxis associate producer.

But Maxis can't cover everything.

Some players have reported online spats leaking out of the game -- players have hacked into others' accounts, posed as acquaintances and spread rumors about real people through instant messaging. Some have even reported identity theft.

That puts far more pressure on game makers to begin cracking down in earnest on gamers, experts say. It could lead to more real-world, legal liability for both players and the companies that make the games.

"We're going to be forced to create a whole new area of social convention -- and probably law -- that reflects that kind of behavior," said psychologist David Greenfield, founder of the Center for Internet Studies and author of the book Virtual Addiction.

"You can't produce something that's this potent or powerful psychologically and not have some accountability for it," he said.

Piers Mathieson and his wife, Jennifer, are two more hardcore Sims players. They log several hours most days.

After the Las Vegas couple distributed photos of themselves to friends, one griefer hacked into Piers' America Online account and stole his in-game character's possessions. Someone else posed as Piers and told other players that Jennifer had died of cancer.

The Mathiesons may have been easy targets. Their character, Mia Wallace, was the most popular in Alphaville, as one of the game's servers, or cities, is known.

"You start having to question who your real friends are, who you can trust, who you can't trust," Jennifer Mathieson said. "It also paints a huge bulls-eye in your forehead."

The two are also founders of the Sim Shadow Government, a group boasting 1,000 members dedicated to cracking down on griefers where Maxis couldn't.

Though the Mathiesons say they dispense justice, their online tactics can be just as rough. The couple say they have ransacked apartments, sent out their "troops" to urinate on others' lawns and once drove another player from the game.

Brink insists the griefers are a far less serious problem in Sims than in other games because it has a different demographic -- a lot of women, people from all age groups, and "players who are looking to build not destroy," he said. "This is a mature, social crowd as a whole."

There are also many ways to block out people who bother you. Even the players agree, after all, that no law exists against being annoying.

"It reminds me of sales calls during dinner time," said Laura Robinson, a student who lives in Philadelphia. "They always seem to message at the wrong time, which in my case is always."

Daval · 07-07-2003, 06:08 AM

geez, some people really need to get a life.

gov135 · 07-07-2003, 06:27 AM

If you find yourself acting out, alone, on your computer, you need to seek some advice from a professional.

Ganguro · 07-07-2003, 06:48 AM

oh the irony of discussing this topic in a place where we mods see soooo many "interesting" members

SuperMidget · 07-07-2003, 07:09 AM

As I read through that article couldn't help but laugh. Imagine there are actually people that think five hours is a long time to play games.

Another thing I had to laugh at was the uprising against greifers (sp?). Just think of the heart attack these people would have going on to a CS server.

If virtual jerks became real world jerks the effects would have shown themselves by now. I mean CS has been out for over what 7, 8 years.

Nisses · 07-07-2003, 07:14 AM

that's the whole point of at least half of the virtual jerks. They can completely act out online, because they're not likely to even try to pull it in real life.

kikcer · 07-07-2003, 08:51 AM

yes i agree, people have more guts online then they do offline.

I'm sure anonymity is a factor as well.

YourNeverThere · 07-07-2003, 11:01 AM

its true there is no law against being annoying, there is no such thing as a perfect online game, inless the administraters of that game on allow the people they know personally to play. If that's not the case then you'll get a varied demographic of players and these kind of things will happen, thats life, there no controling it, unless you use extreme censorship which takes away from the gameplay.

ARTelevision · 07-09-2003, 10:32 AM

Thanks for this story, Cyn.

Yes, in some very simple ways "being" online is no different than "being" in real life. To separate our lives as media from our lives as people is to draw a distinction where there is none - except for artifice. And most people are very bad artists.

bondagegirl · 07-09-2003, 12:05 PM

Ok don't you have to pay every month to play Sims online?

Quote:

They can completely act out online, because they're not likely to even try to pull it in real life.

I have to agree, they're just a bunch of nerds that are letting a part of themselves out that can't be let out in real life... But there is a line, if you hack into my comp and take something of mine then thats going way to far and you're totally going to get your ass kicked in real life...

Quote:

Originally posted by SuperMidget
As I read through that article couldn't help but laugh. Imagine there are actually people that think five hours is a long time to play games.

aw haha I thought the same thing kind of made me feel lik emore of a loser, but damn those sims games are just freakin addicting...

rev_skarekroe · 07-09-2003, 01:29 PM

Shut up with your worthless post, moron!

Kidding!

sk

papermachesatan · 07-09-2003, 01:37 PM

I've a lot of assholishness online tends to only occur online. Saying half the stuff you might say online is likely to result in an ass kicking.

One of the internet's beauties is anonymity.

Phaenx · 07-09-2003, 02:22 PM

No no, they've got it all wrong, if a toad that plays the sims online starts calling people names and being and ass in reality, it leads to him getting his ass kicked and having his money and transformers lunchbox stolen.

LittleOralAnnie · 07-09-2003, 02:36 PM

Being online for me is just another venue of expressing myself, whether it's good or bad for anyone else makes no difference to me. I am me, a unique individual, accept me or not. I don't say anything I wouldn't say in real life for fear because I fear nothing! It's shameful that there aren't more people with that attitude.

There are so many classifications of 'assholes' online that it's really unsettling. The people who tend to concern themselves with trying to change others attitudes and feelings disturb me as do people who can't look into their own lives and see that maybe they are the ones seriously fucked up instead of the people they prey on. Almost like they are lambs heading for a slaughter.

My classification for those gaming people would be 'net bullies'. Oh yes, we all know the kind described in the article above. Normally it's the individuals who have nothing better to do with their time than to get a rise out of the masses and seek the attention that they obviously receive by being fools. It's not always fair that there aren't some form of rules that can be abided by online as in real life situations but maybe someday there will be a crackdown on this sort of chaos.

I typed this out in 3 minutes, I hope I made some sense to someone

nulltype · 07-09-2003, 09:21 PM

People who are jerks on the internet are either are jerks in real life, or they're jerks in real life who don't have enough self-confidence to act like a jerk. With the lack of retribution online, they are merely more free to express their true selves. If the internet encourages them to be more honest with themselves, then more power to them, it should make it easier to identify them, at least.

laxative · 07-10-2003, 12:22 AM

i can be an asshole on the internet because you guys aren't real. If you think you're real here, or on irc, or whatever, you might have a problem. this is entertainment, and sometimes very educational, but i don't think it's a place to find off-line friends or mates.

LittleOralAnnie · 07-10-2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by laxative
...but i don't think it's a place to find off-line friends or mates.

Do you specifically mean people from this site or online people in general? Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? I'm interested in hearing what your reasons are for feeling this way.

Cynthetiq · 07-10-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LittleOralAnnie
Do you specifically mean people from this site or online people in general? Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? I'm interested in hearing what your reasons are for feeling this way.

I'm going to go with a broad generalization here since this person is Rookie status.

I don't think he's seen the dynamic of the board and just how real and alive this place truly is.

then again.. a post like this....is pretty telling...

Quote:

Originally posted by laxative
i'm finding that older = cough more

i'm a know-it-all (maybe i always was)....

ARTelevision · 07-12-2003, 03:37 PM

We frequently meet online friends in real life.
It happens if you let it. It's very nice.

TFPeople we've met in real life are among our close friends.

zfleebin · 07-13-2003, 01:00 AM

I just thank god we have mods on tfp that do such a good job. I am on a bunch of forums and I am constantly amazed at how many people really believe that they can act however they want just cause on the internet. I am glad karma exists because we all have to face up to our deeds in one way or another.

07-07-2003, 05:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Be a virtual jerk, leads to real life jerk? The fact that they have to make such a case about this, anyone who has been online for any amount of time, knows that are a bunch of childish, immature, little "children" out there, who seem to think that being a dick/asshole/jerk/fuckface is fun. IMHO jerks exist everywhere and anywhere that is outside my own domain (read: my own home) in real life or virtually. I don't feel that I need to push anything to such an extreme. Even in the TFP community, there are people who seem to find it "fun" to get a rise out of everyone. ______________________ Game Sparks Bad Behavior Online Associated Press Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,59539,00.html 10:03 AM Jul. 06, 2003 PT NEW YORK - Jeremy Chase admits to shaking down his enemies. His website advertises extortion, hits and prostitution for a hefty fee. Chase is a mob leader -- but only in the virtual world. He is one of hundreds of players who found the path of lawlessness and deviance too irresistible when The Sims Online challenged them to "Be Somebody ... else." The popular commercial game, where thousands of people interact electronically, is turning into a petri dish of anti-social behavior. And that's raising questions about whether limits on conduct should be set in such emerging virtual worlds, even if they are huge adult playpens. "Games give people the opportunity to either do something they've never had the ability to do before or allow them to do the stuff they are too afraid to do in real life," said Chase, an unemployed, self-described computer geek who lives in Sacramento, California. "This is as close to the real-life mafia that I'm going to be able to get." All online games see their share of ne'er-do-wells, or "griefers." In other games where violence is the norm and killing routine, thugs delight in slaughtering the less powerful and stealing their loot. But there are no guns in Sims, made by Maxis, and it's impossible to do serious harm to another player. That means griefers -- admittedly a small percentage of the game's 100,000 subscribers -- have to be devilishly creative in their social deviance. Chase and others insist they're just role-playing like everyone else in the game. But harassment can be a big deal in Sims, which resembles a neighborhood of virtual dollhouses where you build a home and invite others to come over and play. The game's raison d'etre is socializing; barely a half year old, it's the biggest game yet whose rewards come from making friends and being popular. One mob tactic is gathering the foot-soldiers to stigmatize someone else with several so-called "red links" — a sort of demerit that shows others how many enemies a player has. For gamers who have spent hours building a reputation, red links can be devastating. The platform may be virtual, but the attack isn't. "It's only a game but the people operating those little animated cartoons are real," said Holly Shevenock, a postal worker from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Shevenock quit playing Sims because she was spending too much time in it -- up to five hours a day. "If you're not careful, you begin to play this game with your real emotions." She and others said they knew several people who stopped playing or reduced their time online because of groups that seemed intent on harassment. Psychologists who study online behavior say in-game spats and the visceral responses to them aren't surprising. With simulations becoming more lifelike, the line between real and fake is blurred. "The more real you try to make these online worlds, the more the problems are real-world problems," said John Suler, a Rider University professor who specializes in the psychology of cyberspace. "It's not always easy to contain this stuff in the fantasy world." The game's Terms of Service agreement tells players they cannot "harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another Member or guest that is unwarranted." They're also told, "The laws that apply in the off-line world must be obeyed online as well." Maxis gives warnings, terminates threads in message boards, suspends players and in extreme cases, bans accounts. Chase himself endured a three-day suspension for what he said was foul language. "We have a very big hammer to wield when we have to," said Kyle Brink, a Maxis associate producer. But Maxis can't cover everything. Some players have reported online spats leaking out of the game -- players have hacked into others' accounts, posed as acquaintances and spread rumors about real people through instant messaging. Some have even reported identity theft. That puts far more pressure on game makers to begin cracking down in earnest on gamers, experts say. It could lead to more real-world, legal liability for both players and the companies that make the games. "We're going to be forced to create a whole new area of social convention -- and probably law -- that reflects that kind of behavior," said psychologist David Greenfield, founder of the Center for Internet Studies and author of the book Virtual Addiction. "You can't produce something that's this potent or powerful psychologically and not have some accountability for it," he said. Piers Mathieson and his wife, Jennifer, are two more hardcore Sims players. They log several hours most days. After the Las Vegas couple distributed photos of themselves to friends, one griefer hacked into Piers' America Online account and stole his in-game character's possessions. Someone else posed as Piers and told other players that Jennifer had died of cancer. The Mathiesons may have been easy targets. Their character, Mia Wallace, was the most popular in Alphaville, as one of the game's servers, or cities, is known. "You start having to question who your real friends are, who you can trust, who you can't trust," Jennifer Mathieson said. "It also paints a huge bulls-eye in your forehead." The two are also founders of the Sim Shadow Government, a group boasting 1,000 members dedicated to cracking down on griefers where Maxis couldn't. Though the Mathiesons say they dispense justice, their online tactics can be just as rough. The couple say they have ransacked apartments, sent out their "troops" to urinate on others' lawns and once drove another player from the game. Brink insists the griefers are a far less serious problem in Sims than in other games because it has a different demographic -- a lot of women, people from all age groups, and "players who are looking to build not destroy," he said. "This is a mature, social crowd as a whole." There are also many ways to block out people who bother you. Even the players agree, after all, that no law exists against being annoying. "It reminds me of sales calls during dinner time," said Laura Robinson, a student who lives in Philadelphia. "They always seem to message at the wrong time, which in my case is always." __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-07-2003, 06:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	geez, some people really need to get a life. __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

07-07-2003, 07:14 AM	#6 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	that's the whole point of at least half of the virtual jerks. They can completely act out online, because they're not likely to even try to pull it in real life. __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated.

07-07-2003, 11:01 AM	#8 (permalink)
YourNeverThere Practical Anarchist Location: Yesterday i woke up stuck in hollywood	its true there is no law against being annoying, there is no such thing as a perfect online game, inless the administraters of that game on allow the people they know personally to play. If that's not the case then you'll get a varied demographic of players and these kind of things will happen, thats life, there no controling it, unless you use extreme censorship which takes away from the gameplay. __________________ The Above post is a direct quote from Shakespeare

07-09-2003, 10:32 AM	#9 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Thanks for this story, Cyn. Yes, in some very simple ways "being" online is no different than "being" in real life. To separate our lives as media from our lives as people is to draw a distinction where there is none - except for artifice. And most people are very bad artists. __________________ create evolution

07-07-2003, 06:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
gov135 Junkie Location: Midwest	If you find yourself acting out, alone, on your computer, you need to seek some advice from a professional.

07-07-2003, 06:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ganguro Army of Me	oh the irony of discussing this topic in a place where we mods see soooo many "interesting" members

07-07-2003, 07:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
SuperMidget Banned Location: Farm country, South Dakota	As I read through that article couldn't help but laugh. Imagine there are actually people that think five hours is a long time to play games. Another thing I had to laugh at was the uprising against greifers (sp?). Just think of the heart attack these people would have going on to a CS server. If virtual jerks became real world jerks the effects would have shown themselves by now. I mean CS has been out for over what 7, 8 years.

07-07-2003, 08:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
kikcer Upright	yes i agree, people have more guts online then they do offline. I'm sure anonymity is a factor as well.

07-09-2003, 01:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
rev_skarekroe Insane Location: Parts Unknown	Shut up with your worthless post, moron! Kidding! sk __________________ "If I could have one wish, as in the fairy tales, I would unmake my past, and rise like Lazarus and stand in sunlight and banish all the dark." D. Tibet

07-09-2003, 01:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
papermachesatan Psycho Location: Texas	I've a lot of assholishness online tends to only occur online. Saying half the stuff you might say online is likely to result in an ass kicking. One of the internet's beauties is anonymity.

07-09-2003, 02:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	No no, they've got it all wrong, if a toad that plays the sims online starts calling people names and being and ass in reality, it leads to him getting his ass kicked and having his money and transformers lunchbox stolen. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-09-2003, 02:36 PM	#14 (permalink)
LittleOralAnnie Banned	Being online for me is just another venue of expressing myself, whether it's good or bad for anyone else makes no difference to me. I am me, a unique individual, accept me or not. I don't say anything I wouldn't say in real life for fear because I fear nothing! It's shameful that there aren't more people with that attitude. There are so many classifications of 'assholes' online that it's really unsettling. The people who tend to concern themselves with trying to change others attitudes and feelings disturb me as do people who can't look into their own lives and see that maybe they are the ones seriously fucked up instead of the people they prey on. Almost like they are lambs heading for a slaughter. My classification for those gaming people would be 'net bullies'. Oh yes, we all know the kind described in the article above. Normally it's the individuals who have nothing better to do with their time than to get a rise out of the masses and seek the attention that they obviously receive by being fools. It's not always fair that there aren't some form of rules that can be abided by online as in real life situations but maybe someday there will be a crackdown on this sort of chaos. I typed this out in 3 minutes, I hope I made some sense to someone

07-09-2003, 09:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
nulltype Crazy	People who are jerks on the internet are either are jerks in real life, or they're jerks in real life who don't have enough self-confidence to act like a jerk. With the lack of retribution online, they are merely more free to express their true selves. If the internet encourages them to be more honest with themselves, then more power to them, it should make it easier to identify them, at least.

07-10-2003, 12:22 AM	#16 (permalink)
laxative Loser Location: the bathroom	i can be an asshole on the internet because you guys aren't real. If you think you're real here, or on irc, or whatever, you might have a problem. this is entertainment, and sometimes very educational, but i don't think it's a place to find off-line friends or mates.

07-12-2003, 03:37 PM	#19 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	We frequently meet online friends in real life. It happens if you let it. It's very nice. TFPeople we've met in real life are among our close friends. __________________ create evolution

07-13-2003, 01:00 AM	#20 (permalink)
zfleebin Addict	I just thank god we have mods on tfp that do such a good job. I am on a bunch of forums and I am constantly amazed at how many people really believe that they can act however they want just cause on the internet. I am glad karma exists because we all have to face up to our deeds in one way or another.