Stare At The Sun

I just got done reading yet another soul crushing email that informed me that they have hired someone else instead of me.

A little background is in order though I suppose...I have a Bachelor's and a Master's Degree in Criminal Justice. I earned extremely good grades throughout my academic career (3.55 GPA in undergrad, 3.97 GPA in graduate school.) I worked as a graduate assistant at a top tier research school, and yet I can't land an entry level job in my field anywhere in the US.

Every interview I go to, they are interviewing at least 6 other people, and most of them are older with more actual experience in the field than me (but less education). How am I supposed to compete with people that have 10+ years of experience as a counselor, or a probation officer? I've got a great education, but I've yet to interview at a place where that held the same weight as an equivalent amount of work experience.

I'm really starting to become cynical about the whole process, granted I've only been looking for 5 months, but that seems like a long time to look for a job and find nothing. It's very tough getting rejected by companies over and over again.

Just to make ends meet I've taken a job as a waiter at a local restaurant. It's not as if I think I'm above waiting tables, but it is a bit frustrating to have spent so much time in college, and really have nothing to show for it other than 2 pieces of paper and a lot of seemingly useless knowledge.

I want to make a difference in the Criminal Justice system, either through being a probation officer, a pre-trail officer, or a youth counselor or just a counselor in general, but I can't seem to find a place where I can do that.

So, other than a big rant, I guess I'm asking the TFP for a bit of advice on what to do/how to improve my chances. Any advice would be great.

Thanks in advance ^_^.

dippin

Ever thought about going in for a PhD? Criminal justice/criminology seems to be the only field in the social sciences where the number of vacancies seem to be increasing over time.

Stare At The Sun

I have seriously considered it. I'm fairly decent at statistics/research methods, which helps, but I'm not really all that interested in research. I'd love to teach, but I'm not sure if my heart would be into going back to school for another 4 years.

It's looking more and more tempting though, if for no other reason than to keep me busy for those 4 years...

The_Jazz

It's not what you know, it's who you know. Assuming that you've got good relationships with the staff at your school, I'd start there. Your inability to land a job reflects poorly on them. Seriously, it does. If you were anyone's protege, now's the time to cash in that chip.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

wooÐs

Use this as your cover letter^^

Wes Mantooth

Have you considered applying to jobs outside of your state? Sometimes an area is just over saturated with candidates for a specific field and your chances of getting hired are dramatically reduced. I'd perhaps research what the job market for your field is like in various places I've always wanted to go and start applying. I had to do just that after college, having studied music in college there was simply no way I was going to find a lucrative career in my home state(Maine) so I picked up and moved to Nashville for obvious reasons.

Something else you could consider if you haven't already is studying up on how to have a better interview. Its possible that you just aren't wowing your potential employers while others are, a few tweeks here and there in your style might put you over the top. Something else to consider might be re-writing your resume?

Anyway just a few ideas. I wish you the best of luck I know how it can be.

__________________

SecretMethod70

Bingo. Almost every job I've landed out of college has been because of networking. Only 2 have been from sending my resume out: one was working at a book store which I did while looking for a "real job," and the other was a crappy job that I turned down because I got a better one through networking.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

World's King

Have you tried going topless? Or bottomless?

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Plan9

GoArmy.com

Baraka_Guru

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

uncle phil

or air force...
or navy...
or marines...
or coast guard...

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

cj2112

You are as of yet unproven. Go be a cop, or an officer in a youth correctional facility. Put in some time in those jobs. Then start working on a transfer. Put some time in working in a juvenile drug rehab. Ya gotta pay your dues. You need to get to know people in the field. This is how you do it, especially when the job market is as tough as it is right now. Good Luck!

Wes Mantooth

You could check the obituaries and find out if any jobs are opening up. Sure its a little macabre but look at the head start you'd get on the competition!

__________________

Stare At The Sun

I'm defiantly not shooting for the stars. I'm applying at entry level positions, but there is just so much competition and so many more qualified people looking for work.

Bodyhammer86

I feel your pain, bro. I got my Bachelor's in Criminology back during the summer of 2008 (had a 3.4 gpa and did two internships as well) and I'm struggling like hell to find a job somewhat related to my field now that the economy's in the shitter.

I want to be a police officer, but in this area (downstate Illinois, where the job market was mediocre at best before the economy collapsed), departments everywhere are on hiring freezes or laying off officers, and the few that are hiring have like only one or two positions open, but a hundred people who are just as qualified, if not more so than me, apply for them. Sadly, it's also not as simple as relocating since the public safety field in general is being hammered everywhere by the current recession. I've made a few eligibility lists, but that doesn't mean a damn thing unless the department in question actually has openings or plans on hiring sometime in the near future. But sadly, I've gotten many more rejection letters than eligibility list positions. To add insult to injury, it doesn't help that getting a job as a police officer is a LONG process and if you don't make it through a step of the hiring process (written test, physical agility, interview, etc.), you'll have to wait at least six months for the next process to start.

So in the mean time, I'm stuck living at home and working at Wal Mart for minimum wage, since as much as it kills me inside to say it, it's literally the only place to work and shop where I live. Like you said, I don't believe I'm above doing my current job, but at the same time, the pay is horrible, benefits are non-existent, and last but not least, it's not what I went to school and struggled for four years to do. I really don't have any advice to offer but to keep plugging away and applying. But the bottom line is that I'm just as angry and frustrated as you are in regard to getting a serious job.

__________________
Pantera, Shadows Fall, Fear Factory, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Dimmu Borgir, Watch Them Die, Motorhead, Beyond the Embrace, Himsa, Black Label Society, Machine Head, In Flames, Soilwork, Dark Tranquility, Children of Bodom, Norther, Nightrage, At the Gates, God Forbid, Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, All That Remains, Anthrax, Mudvayne, Arch Enemy, and Old Man's Child \m/

Leto

It may be that (similar to what happened to the IT field in the '90's) this discipline is suffering from being too popular. I don't recall criminology as being as widely offered at univeristies in the 1980's as it is now. Is it the CSI effect? Whatever it is, there appears to be a significant competition for any position that is available. Most of these positions are government jobs (i.e. municipal police forces etc) that are currently under severe budget constraints.

I talked about this with my son who was casting about for a university major and had settled on criminology. My advice to him (which was largely ignored) was to aim towards a law degree if he was interested in the field. With law, you can always be a lawyer (criminal, real estate... there are many different kinds) you can hang your sign outside your house and be dependant on demand and market forces versus public budgets if you wanted to make a living.

Have you thought of that? Before you say it's too late, I'll just mention that my old gf graduated from university in 1983 with a Biology degree, worked as a bank teller for 4 or 5 years, quit the workforce after she got married, then got divorced, wrote her LSAT went to the University of Windsor (across the river from Detroit) Law School and hasn't looked back. She did this when she was about 37, and is currently legal council for the government of Ontario's Ministry of Labour. This was after 5 years as a corporate lawyer at Blake's / Casselmans on Bay Street in Toronto.


I think the message is, there is a lot of room to manouver in the criminal justice system, and you are one of the men and women who can do this. This is your story.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

snowy

The job market, no matter what your field is, sucks right now. I have a lot of friends who have graduated and struggled to find jobs in their area of study, if they've found anything at all. The only people I know of who have had any luck at all have been engineers, and our school helps them find jobs through networking opportunities, because as Jazz said, if an engineer from OSU can't find a job, that says something about the school.

I went back to school because I graduated in 2008 and couldn't find a damn thing, even just general retail bottom of the rung employment. I had a patchwork of jobs that wouldn't even qualify as part-time--cleaning offices, working in childcare, nannying, etc. Tired of that scramble, I threw in the towel on most of my jobs and went back to school.

My advice? Consider returning to school. This time, lay the proper groundwork BEFORE graduating. A friend of mine works as a probation officer with just a Bachelor's degree. How? Because she busted her ass on internships and made connections through them that enabled her to find out about and get a job in rural Oregon. She worked hard to make sure she had done the legwork she needed to find employment before she got out of school. Keep in mind that your institution has a career center with workshops and whatnot that are meant to help you, even if you are graduated. Use their resources.

The fact of the matter is that right now you have to be PERFECT to land so much as an interview. Competition is fierce. Make sure your application materials are flawless before you send them in, and I really mean flawless. There are so many candidates right now, even for BS positions (I had 50+ applicants for a 6 hours a week childcare job recently), that a misspelled word or a misplaced punctuation mark can and will cost you your dream job.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Leto

Snowy's point is bang on. I think the days of stepping out of university and into a good job is fairly limited now to professional designations. But even engineering and accounting are only taking the cream of the crop. It's a buyer's market out there. I reflect that I graduated with a BAH back in 1984, in the midst of a recession that rivals the current one. I competed at job interviews against PhD's and MA/MSc's just for a position in the provincial parks as a park warden (i'm a Physical Geographer) and only landed a temp contract position as a geologist through a government incentive programme.

Ended up returning to school (college this time) to do a 2 year diploma in computer programming & analysis. Graduating from this in 1986 made me competitive in a different job market (mainframe programming) than I had originally intended. But it paid for my house, my lifestyle and allowed myself and my wife to raise a family. You never know where you will end up in your career, but as Snowy said, have a roadmap prepared so you can anticipate and handle the detours. Just now, 24 years later, I am marrying my geographical and computer education in my career with GIS management.

Don't despair, be flexible and pro-active while you are young enough for it to have the least impact on your lifestyle.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

yournamehere

In 14 months, I haven't even made it to an interview. My problem parallels yours, but is different - I have a professional 5-year degree (cum laude) and 15 years of experience. Everywhere I've applied has received over 100 resumes, and the jobs all go to either :
1) the geographically closest applicant, or
2) the recent graduate, who won't bitch about the laughably small salary being offered. Why companies don't want more bang for their buck is a mystery to me. I mean - the salary they're offering is the salary they're offering - why not get someone with both the education and experience for the same salary?

Anyway - good luck!

__________________
If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

Hektore

If you can recognize that the salary is pitifully small it's because you know you can do much better. If you know that you can do much better, then so does the company you're applying to and they don't want to spend the time/money getting you into the groove at their place only to have you pack up and leave in 18-24 months if things turn around.

__________________
The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

Xerxys

I have nothing to add to this thread besides the fact that everytime I read the title this instantly plays in my head ...

fie

Or at least something easily removed so you can feel it out first.

Also, you need to talk your self up more. You need to make them think that your life up to the point of the interview was so that you could get this job. GL

Stare At The Sun

Bit of good news...I'm taking a test to be a TSA screener, we'll see how it goes ^_^.

rahl

This is one of my gripes about how important people feel college is. Sure, it can help get you a job, but most people pay anywhere from 30k to 40k if not more on a college education and end up with a job that pays less than what you spent on college. IMO it's one of the best scams going in this country today.

__________________
"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

fie

ditto

genuinegirly

Which is why I decided not to pay for a university education. There are tons of scholarships and grants out there, and for those looking at graduate school, plenty of schools with good reputations that are looking for graduate teaching assistants. If you're willing to teach while completing your PHD, you'll come out ahead.

I don't know if a higher degree is best for you. Just want to make sure you realize you won't be throwing money away on another piece of paper - the institution will be throwing away the money if they don't land you a job when you're done. Think it over.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Poppinjay

Oh. My. God.

I was just going to use your thread to rant that TSA took a year to get back to me on the screener test, scheduled me, then promptly cancelled me because my app was a year old.

The government. And they wonder how exploding underpants get on planes.

I've been pretty amazed by the fact I've been turned down for jobs that I am way qualified for. The latest was a management job at a public radio station in a smaller market than I've ever worked in.

Then on the other hand I at least got an interview for a similar job in the largest market in the country. And not even a callback from a tiny station in the hills of Kenfucky.

So I'm working a pastiche of jobs. During the week I knock myself out trying to raise money for an environmental cause. On the weekend I came back to my old employer to do some production work.

This job market sucks. It's far worse than the early 90's recession. At least then I could claim my inexperience was holding me back. Now? Nothing. The job listings in my industry used to run about 100 pages by y2k. Now it is a page. One (1). Chimpy McSmirk fiddled while the economy burned to the ground.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Xerxys

I read something to do with jobs that are gone are not coming back. Very disconcerting news.

Here: http://www.miamiherald.com/business/...link=mirelated

and here ... even-in-a-recovery-some-jobs-wont-return: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

Shit has hit the fan. And to think I got a haircut!!

Poppinjay

Yeah, if you were a milkman or electronics repairman, you're pretty much looking at re-education.

The odd thing is that this recovery is really gathering steam in thrid world countries, while the developed nations lag far behind.

In addition to many types of positions becoming archaic, technology is allowing continued outsorcing of decent paying jobs. It's a great time to be able to build something or sell something.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Xerxys

I have reason to believe this is eden and Gucci but I can't prove it just yet ...



And this is some of the most AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME marketing scheme I have ever seen in the world.

Plan9

$30-40k?! What school did you go to? Sally Struthers Academy for the Gifted? Shit is way expensive, bro. $40k just for tuition maybe. Rent, books, and booze... those are significant expenses above and beyond that paltry estimate. My checkbook has scorch marks on it from higher education.

I get the impression that college is part of this social order lily pad scheme. The general idea being that grades of education match up with grades of employment. I can get a job as a strip club janitor with a GED. I can get a job as a office lackey with an associates. I can get a job in a cubicle with a 4 year, get my own office with a 6 year, and by the time I've got my PhD... I've got enough gray hairs and debt to warrant leatherbound books and a dimly lit study. There are obvious deviations from this scheme... the guy with the GED that makes a million a year because he has some networking skill or the guy that has a 6 year that pushes a mop because the market is in the toilet and he's "overqualified" (as it is today or so it seems).

It doesn't matter what degree I have... hell, I got me a Bach in Underwater Basketweaving from Bumfuck U... and I can get a job doing nearly anything if I know someone in the industry and show a little spunk at an interview. It has been my experience that networking is everything.

yournamehere

I suppose that's true, assuming businesses think long-term - but few do. The goal of any good business is to make money. Therefore, hiring an employee should be an exercise in getting the best product for the least expense. If the talent pool is shallow, the salary can vary; if the salary is fixed, then the job should go to the most qualified person, right?

Of course, my profession is historically cheap. I graduated college at the tail end of a mild recession, and many companies at the time were hiring two part-time workers instead of one full-time employee - just to avoid paying benefits such as health care and sick/vacation pay. As mentioned above, it's certainly a buyers' market out there. I wouldn't hesitate to accept a job at half my former salary; my hope would be that whenever the economy turns around, the company would consider my true value and raise my salary to avoid me 'packing up and leaving.' After all, the only reason I'd bail would be if someone was willing to pay me a lot more. If that were the case, it's a fairly competitive profession - I'm sure my present employer would match the offer.

When it's all said and done, however, "you're overexperienced" is usually just a legal way of saying, "we're looking for someone younger."

__________________
If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

Stare At The Sun

So, an update!

This last month has been pretty interesting.

I actually started about 3 weeks ago working for "Family Video". A large privately owned video rental chain, as a Store Manager in Training. The pay was decent enough, 44 hours a week, chance at small commissions, easy work, etc.

However, once I started working, the real fun began. They began to ask me to work a few extra minutes off the clock like. Hey, go ahead and punch out, and do that last bit of work on the file there, and I'll see you tomorrow. So it started out innocent enough, but when my off the clock hours started to become more and more frequent I started to do some digging. This was the corporate policy. The store managers were expected to work at least 50 hours a week, and the MIT's were supposed to work more than their 44 paid hours a week.

I found this to be pretty unethical, so once again, my search for a new job resumed.

Long story short, I got hired as a recruiter. I've done recruiting in the past, but never as a full time, and full commission job. The job has some good benefits, and I get my own office. I know the ropes of the recruiting business, as I did it a few summers ago, so hopefully I'll do ok. The earning potential is there, so as long as I'm good at it, I can make more than enough money to support myself.

Now I'm actually in a good position to help other people in a situation like mine. So, if you're resume is in need of a bit of pimpin', feel free to talk to me. I'll recruit for you.

Jinn

I paid just a little bit more than 40 for a 4-year Engineering degree from a state school (7th in the nation for CS) including two years of dorm (twice as expensive as an apartment) and booze.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Bodyhammer86

Man, I can't count the number of times that I've applied at the Family Video here, for an hourly position, manager or whatever, and have never gotten a call back after the initial interview. How did you pull it off?

__________________
Pantera, Shadows Fall, Fear Factory, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Dimmu Borgir, Watch Them Die, Motorhead, Beyond the Embrace, Himsa, Black Label Society, Machine Head, In Flames, Soilwork, Dark Tranquility, Children of Bodom, Norther, Nightrage, At the Gates, God Forbid, Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, All That Remains, Anthrax, Mudvayne, Arch Enemy, and Old Man's Child \m/

Leto

my son is in his second year of an engineering degree (biomedical) the tuition is $7,100 per year. The books work out to about $1800.

It's not cheap, but it's not crazy expensive either. Plus the school is in downtown Toronto.

He just applied to Home Depot last month for a job, which came through today. It took him 3 interviews (for a retail job???) plus references plus a 2 followup calls to land it. Unfortunately, it is minimum wage ($10/hr or so) but he should be able to save up for next term.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

LordEden

HAHAHAha... this is the wage I make at my current job.

I have no idea why I'm laughing.

That said, maybe I can bitch more in this thread about taking a crappy job til you can find a better one. Apparently, I have a crappy job, so I'm qualified to bitch about this. Nice.

Also, grats on the new job SATS.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

Stare At The Sun

Er honestly? I walked in on a Friday, picked up the app on a whim, the District Manager happened to be in the store, and he was the one I asked about the job, he did a quick interview, which lead to a full interview, which lead to a test, which I passed, which lead to a regional manager interview, which I did well at. This was on saturday. I started on monday. So 3 days from interview to starting. It was intense.

I wouldn't recommend it though, unless you really are in need of a job.

Bodyhammer86

Wow, it's really that bad of a job? At least it would pay better and involve somewhat easier work than my current job at Wal-Mart as a cartpusher. I get paid only $8.40 an hour to push a metric shitton of used and abused shopping carts in the suffocating heat, freezing cold, rain, snow, etc., put up with lazy coworkers, deal with garbage equipment that breaks down and doesn't work properly half the time, almost get run over by stupid douchebag customers that don't know how to drive, and then getting yelled at by them. But I guess if Family Video really tries to force you to work off the clock and engages in other unethical work practices, it probably isn't worth it.

__________________
Pantera, Shadows Fall, Fear Factory, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Dimmu Borgir, Watch Them Die, Motorhead, Beyond the Embrace, Himsa, Black Label Society, Machine Head, In Flames, Soilwork, Dark Tranquility, Children of Bodom, Norther, Nightrage, At the Gates, God Forbid, Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, All That Remains, Anthrax, Mudvayne, Arch Enemy, and Old Man's Child \m/

james t kirk

I was reading this thread thinking it was pretty interesting, but really, all this has happened before and will happen again. (To steal a line from the Hybrid in Battlestar Galactica.)

Then I read the bit about you not liking to put in some extra hours to get the job done. This is the way of the world friend. I've been working like this since I finished University in 1989. (I graduated from Engineering.) If you're in a certain position, work is no longer thought about on an hourly basis. You get a yearly salary divided by 12 or 26 and that's that. You have certain goals to accomplish at work and if you can get them done in 40 hours - good for you. If it takes you 60 hours, it takes you 60 hours.

Here was my last week:

Saturday - fly to Quebec City from Toronto, rent car, drive for another 4 hours to destination in Quebec. = 10 hour day

Sunday - work all day with my boss in the office. Dinner with boss, discuss work till 10 p.m. = 14 hour day

Monday 8 a.m. to till noon in office, get in car drive 8 hours to St. John New Brunswick to prepare for meeting with client. = 14 hour day

Tuesday, meeting in St. John till 2:00 p.m. Drive back to Quebec, arrive office 11:00 p.m. = 15 hour day

Wednesday - all day in office - 8 a.m. till 6:00 p.m. = 10 hour day.

Today, returning to Toronto, in Airport in Quebec City right now. Will be another 10 hour day

Working a 10 hour day 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. is the norm in my industry. Working weekends - expect to work 1 day a weekend (albeit on a more relaxed pace) pretty much every weekend.

Do I get paid for it?

No, I don't get paid by the hour, but my boss just came to me yesterday and said here's a 10 grand travel vouture - take you and your girlfriend to Europe for 2 weeks this summer.

That's why they call it work. Reading your post about not liking the deal - welcome to the way that it is. I would not hire you with a work ethic like that. Sorry. (You packed it in after 3 weeks?) Now I know that working as a Manager Trainee at the video store is not your prefered option and the pay probably wasn't anything spectacular, however, in the kind of work that you're looking for - odds are it won't be an hourly kind of remuneration. As a professional, you cannot approach work as an hourly thing. It just doesn't work that way.

Do I work insane hours every week? No. It's a give and take thing. But 50 hours is an average week. 60 above average. It can go from there.