DOJ and medical MJ users... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 02:30 AM

A Justice Department memo, sent Monday to federal prosecutors in California and 13 other states whose laws allow medical use of marijuana, provides guidelines to implement the policy Attorney General Eric Holder announced in March: that federal authorities should refrain from arresting or prosecuting people who are complying with their state's laws.

Story here

Welcome news in my opinion. Personally I'd like them to just legalize it completely.

How do you feel about this?

GreyWolf · 10-20-2009, 03:07 AM

You, my friend, are probably now on a Hell's Angels or other organised crime hit list. Who do you think is pushing so hard AGAINST legalisation (and providing LOTS of $$$ to those politicians against it)?

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP Article

SAN FRANCISCO -- Medical marijuana advocates in California said the Obama administration's announcement of new guidelines for pot prosecutions Monday contained some hopeful signs, but lacked the specifics needed to keep patients and their suppliers out of court.

"It's an extremely welcome rhetorical de-escalation of the federal government's long-standing war on medical marijuana patients," said Stephen Gutwillig, state director of the Drug Policy Alliance.

Dale Gieringer, California coordinator of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said the administration's advice to U.S. attorneys that they respect state law - such as California's Proposition 215, the 1996 measure legalizing medicinal use of the drug - was encouraging.

However, he added, "the policy has major loopholes that give prosecutors broad discretion to determine what they think is legal."

A Justice Department memo, sent Monday to federal prosecutors in California and 13 other states whose laws allow medical use of marijuana, provides guidelines to implement the policy Attorney General Eric Holder announced in March: that federal authorities should refrain from arresting or prosecuting people who are complying with their state's laws.

Federal prosecutors should focus on major drug traffickers and networks, rather than on those who "are in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state laws" on medical marijuana, said Deputy Attorney General David Ogden.

But he added some qualifications: Prosecutors can go after those who sell marijuana for profit, a category that federal authorities have commonly invoked in charging growers and sellers of medicinal pot.

San Francisco's U.S. attorney, Joseph Russoniello, asserted in August that most of California's 300 marijuana dispensaries make profits, in violation of state guidelines, and are therefore open to federal prosecution.

Ogden also said the Justice Department would fight any effort by people now charged with marijuana-related crimes in federal court to claim that they were simply following state law. And even those who are clearly complying with a state's law can be investigated and prosecuted, he said, in the pursuit of "important federal interests."
'Lot of discretion'

"It leaves a lot of discretion up to the U.S. attorneys," said Kris Hermes of Americans for Safe Access, an advocacy group for patients who use marijuana. "We hope that these guidelines rein in rogue prosecutors like Russoniello. There's no guarantee that's going to happen."

Russoniello's office is prosecuting owners of two Hayward-area medical marijuana dispensaries that were licensed by local governments. In March, after Holder's announcement, federal agents raided Emmalyn's California Cannabis Clinic in San Francisco, which had a city permit. No charges were filed.

Russoniello's office referred inquiries Monday to the Justice Department, where spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler said Ogden's memo was intended to provide "guidance and clarification" to prosecutors and does not change administration policy.
Judges go easy

Since Holder's announcement, prosecutors have told several federal judges in California that the new policy did not justify leniency for marijuana defendants whose cases originated during President George W. Bush's administration.

Judges have nonetheless imposed lighter sentences than the Justice Department wanted, notably a one-year term for a Central Coast pot club operator for whom prosecutors sought five years.

Although Monday's guidelines, like Holder's earlier statement, do not expressly apply to pending cases, defense lawyers will argue to judges that the Obama administration's memo justifies a break in sentencing, said Joe Elford, lawyer for Americans for Safe Access.

He also predicted that some prisoners would cite the memo in asking President Obama for clemency.

The guidelines don't say how federal authorities would respond if California legalized marijuana for personal use, as proposed in an Assembly bill and several pending initiatives. But Gutwillig, whose organization advocates legalization, said he saw a glimmer of hope.

"The Obama administration has taken a further step today to follow the lead of the states on marijuana policy," he said

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz0UUHNRX9S

Oh, good... more "broad discretion" confusion. Just what we need on a shoutbomb like medical marijuana.

...

Lemme preface my comments by stating that I believe that medical marijuana, while a legit concept, is simply a gimmie-gimmie portal for a lot of people who want to use the drug no differently than tobacco and alcohol. They all claim "it helps people" but really they just wanna get fucked up. And really, that's cool... but don't lie about it. You're not really fooling anybody with your Bob Marley t-shirt and that bag of Funyuns, okay? Your lungs, my liver.

...

Law 101: I'm not a genius (or a lawyer) but state law can only go beyond federal law when it is "more protective." Federal law trumps state law everywhere else. The states don't get to decide whatever they wanna do, they have to subscribe to federal law. It prevents things like, oh, segregation of schools, abortion from being a capital offense, and freedom-lovin' jerkfaces in Montana owning three dozen sterile M60E3s for "home defense."

Why is there this push for more wiggle room in current enforcement policy now? Is this part of the whole "Obamacare" bit? Heh. Its not like MM has been at the forefront of any major political debate recently. And there was plenty of wiggle room before aside from the string of Dubya era DEA raids.

I don't like it strictly because it represents another erosion of the system based on a (I won't say contemporary) hot button issue.

A fuckin' plant, none the less.

...

My point:

If you want change, do it through the legislative branch... no executive branch "practice over policy" and no "judicial legislation."

Social reform should be in writing, not in amorphous recommendations. Change the laws first, guys. It's simpler that way.

Ugh.

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 06:41 AM

In the states in question it was changed by leg. Leg initiated by the voter in most (maybe all) cases. The Feds have just been laying a heavy hand on people in those states regardless of the voters wishes. They convicted some poor lady with brain cancer in California for using MJ to ease her pain. Democracy at work.

---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

You, my friend, are probably now on a Hell's Angels or other organised crime hit list. Who do you think is pushing so hard AGAINST legalisation (and providing LOTS of $$$ to those politicians against it)?

Yep, beer companies, Big Pharma and the drug cartels want no part of you being legally able to grow your own.

Fuck them.

Iliftrocks · 10-20-2009, 06:47 AM

Drugs also bring in a crap-load of money to law enforcement and buys them good ole boys some nice toys. Of course they are against decriminalizing or outright legalization.

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 07:08 AM

Taxing drugs would do the same. This is all about Morality and Standards, not the reality of Reefer Madness.

...

I still think that the federal legislature should dictate the rules. They're slow, inefficient, behind the times, corrupt... but they're what we've got. To suggest that we need change now-now-now goes against the purpose of our government: painfully slow and deliberate, not swayed by trends.

...

The "bad guys" will still make plenty of money on coke, meth, guns and women. Decriminalizing marijuana will only be a speedbump for them.

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

Taxing drugs would do the same. This is all about Morality and Standards, not the reality of Reefer Madness.

LE will loose big time on the tax income if MJ is legalized. The money that goes to police MJ growth, sales and use will no longer be available. Taxes collected from legal MJ sales would more likely go to social programs. LE agency admin. and industries supplying them with equipment have been fighting legalization just as much as Alcohol, Pharma and Drug Cartels.

As for stating medical MJ is just a way around the law for people to get high that's a pretty broad brush stroke. Sure that happens, but many people with cancer and other medical conditions use MJ for pain, muscle relaxation and help eating and or hold down food.

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

LE will loose big time on the tax income if MJ is legalized. The money that goes to police MJ growth, sales and use will no longer be available. Taxes collected from legal MJ sales would more likely go to social programs. LE agency admin. and industries supplying them with equipment have been fighting legalization just as much as Alcohol, Pharma and Drug Cartels..

And how much money will the system save on not investigating, prosecuting and jailing potheads? How much time will LE have available for other things?

Martian · 10-20-2009, 10:06 AM

Fun fact: Medical marijuana is a recognized treatment for my illness. It's possible that I could get it if I wanted to, and if I could find a doctor willing to go down that road with me.

Of course law enforcement doesn't want marijuana legalized. If it was legal, who would pay for their attack helicopters and fancy assault weapons and so on?

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

As for stating medical MJ is just a way around the law for people to get high that's a pretty broad brush stroke. Sure that happens, but many people with cancer and other medical conditions use MJ for pain, muscle relaxation and help eating and or hold down food.

Broad? Sure. And how many of the X million pot users in the US have these conditions? 3%? Less?

Please. Let's be realistic here. Recreational use is mondo far beyond medicinal use. Just be honest.

Stats are cute, conditions are fine... but the reality of the situation is that it's about happy funtime.

For me, that's the biggest obstacle that potheads face. It's about presentation of their case.

They're trying to legitimize their activity with all the wrong bullet points and they're not fooling anybody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

Of course law enforcement doesn't want marijuana legalized. If it was legal, who would pay for their attack helicopters and fancy assault weapons and so on?

Yeah, the militarization of the US police force over the last ~30 years is another huge problem. The escalation of force issues related to the "War on Drugs" and the nature of the most violent first world nation on this island earth has created a whole 'nother monster. That's another thread, though.

Decriminalization would be positive for all parties involved, despite the initial acclimation pains. I'm a Johnny Law type and I'm for it.

It would really take a huge load off LE and really step on the dick of all the importers, dealers, and other "entrepreneur" scumbags.

wooÐs · 10-20-2009, 10:16 AM

I had a friend in Cali who I'm sure was faking her lupus condition just so she could score 90 lorcets and an oz. of herb every month. Things didn't add up in regards to her flares and what not. And since lupus is difficult to diagnose, I'm 90% it was all crap. But it worked out for her I guess.

Regarding making it legal, I just don't know.

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

And how much money will the system save on not prosecuting and jailing potheads? How much time will LE have available for other things?

A lot, but you can also count on funding/staffing cuts. Same thing would happen if you stopped funding drunk driving patrols.

There's also lost rev. in seized property. All those sheriff auctions are going to shrink by large %'s.

LE's gonna take a funding hit if MJ is legalized but IMO there's some things we shouldn't be funding. I knew of an elderly couple in Washington state who lost their home to the county because their adult son was growing pot on the property. The DA publicly explained he sure wished there was something he could do but the law is clear and his hands were tied... so they seized the house and sold it. In that county the sheriff and DA's office split the proceeds from such sales with a very small % going to the state. Yeah, no way he could have done a plea bargain... simply out of his control. *cough* bullshit *cough, cough*

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 10:22 AM

Yeah, I think the seizure of homes and other assets (cars) by LE is heavily abused. They seize a Corvette and put some bullshit slogan on the side and parade it around town. That kind of unprofessional my-gang-is-better-than-your-gang mentality only serves to create resentment in the community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooÐs

Regarding making it legal, I just don't know.

Oh, come now. Those that have used it surely have an opinion on legalizing it. Why not you? You like it, don't you? You'd smoke it right now if it was legal, wouldn't you? It makes you feel good, it's a great escape mechanism from the numerous rigors of this hectic modern life, right? Hot stuff. You wouldn't wanna go to jail for that, would ya? The stigma associated with being a druggie is pretty negative in the public eye.

It isn't any more dangerous than anything else, right? It's just like cigarettes and booze, right? Help me confirm my suspicions.

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooÐs

I had a friend in Cali who I'm sure was faking her lupus condition just so she could score 90 lortabs and an oz. of herb every month. Things didn't add up in regards to her flares and what not. And since lupus is difficult to diagnose, I'm 90% it was all crap. But it worked out for her I guess.

Regarding making it legal, I just don't know.

I don't know your friend, obviously, but convincing a Dr. you have lupus to get medical MJ in California seems an odd route to go. In California you can get a legal MJ card for depression, min. cramps, migraines... all kind of conditions which would be easier to fake or simply claim to suffer from as opposed to lupus. here's what Dr's look for in regards to lupus-

Quote:

* antinuclear antibody (ANA) panel including anti-DNA and anti-Smith antibodies, with the latter two tests generally positive in lupus alone
* characteristic skin rash or lesions
* chest X-ray showing pleuritis or pericarditis
* listening to the chest with a stethoscope to reveal heart friction rub or pleural friction rub
* urinalysis to show blood, casts, or protein in the urine
* CBC showing a decrease in some cell types
* kidney biopsy
* neurological examination

Seems like saying "Doc, I'm depressed all the time and sleep all day. Smoking pot really helps with that... can you hook me up?" Would be much easier then faking lupus.

wooÐs · 10-20-2009, 10:25 AM

I really don't like the idea of my kids having easier access to it. Oh wait, I don't have kids. But if I did I'm sure it would be a legitimate concern. Smoking the shit all day doesn't 'expand the mind' like some think. It makes you stupid. More stupid people on the roads and in the workplace = bad.

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Seems like saying "Doc, I'm depressed all the time and sleep all day. Smoking pot really helps with that... can you hook me up?" Would be much easier then faking lupus.

In that case, wouldn't a non-quack doctor first suggest that you take a SSRI or something before smoking the wackytobacky? Doctors are still leery of how prescribing pot will affect their reputation. And traditional antidepressant pills have a pretty good record of success. And they're not stigmatized.

wooÐs · 10-20-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I don't know your friend, obviously, but convincing a Dr. you have lupus to get medical MJ in California seems on odd route to go. In California you can get a legal MJ card for depression, min. cramps, migraines... all kind of conditions which would be easier to fake or simply claim to suffer from as opposed to lupus. here's what Dr's look for in regards to lupus-

Seems like saying "Doc, I'm depressed all the time and sleep all day. Smoking pot really helps with that... can you hook me up?" Would be much easier then faking lupus.

It started with the pills. We're both addicts. So she'd send me a small portion of her batch via USPS. She was able to get the pills for a good year. Claimed her flares were worse - so she's bumped up to oxycontin. Still not good enough. Then came herb. And so on.

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooÐs

I really don't like the idea of my kids having easier access to it. Oh wait, I don't have kids. But if I did I'm sure it would be a legitimate concern. Smoking the shit all day doesn't 'expand the mind' like some think. It makes you stupid. More stupid people on the roads and in the workplace = bad.

But "your kids" already have access. The NSDUH/NHSDA proves that... legal pot or not, your little brats are tokin' like tiny versions of Cheech and Chong after school. It's painfully obvious that the law hasn't prevented drug use in the United States. DEA statistics show the street price of everyone's precious pot has remained steady despite huge seizures and zillion dollar efforts by fed, state, and local LE agencies to stem the Green Tide of Giggles.

I'm confused, though: What do you mean it doesn't "expand your mind?" Everybody says such great things about it. You mean it's like some kind of dangerous poison that has effects more detrimental to a healthy lifestyle than the booze or cigarettes we're killing ourselves with legally?

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

In that case, wouldn't a non-quack doctor first suggest that you take a SSRI or something before smoking the wackytobacky? Doctors are still leery of how prescribing pot will affect their reputation. And traditional antidepressant pills have a pretty good record of success. And they're not stigmatized.

Luckily for those seeking MJ to treat their condition(s) groups like NORML will supply you with a list of MJ friendly doctors.

Insto-presto list here

---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooÐs

It started with the pills. We're both addicts. So she'd send me a small portion of her batch via USPS. She was able to get the pills for a good year. Claimed her flares were worse - so she's bumped up to oxycontin. Still not good enough. Then came herb. And so on.

Well like I said don't know her, just seems like there's easier ways to get a Cali MJ card.

wooÐs · 10-20-2009, 10:43 AM

Of course they're already smoking it. I started early too. But that doesn't make it ok imo. Speaking from a personal standpoint, it makes me more stupid and much less alert of my surroundings. I can't stand smoking around others as it doesn't make me more social. I shut up and just play pong in my head. By no means do I come to new realizations of space and / or architecture. It's just extra-curricular. I'm worthless while high. Throw me a brownie and some milk and sit me in front of a computer or tv.

---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Well like I said don't know her, just seems like there's easier ways to get a Cali MJ card.

There may be - you may know better than I do. But I lost contact with her when I found out she was sharing her green with her pregnant sister. "It's just pot ffs." Oh ok then. *closes door*

yournamehere · 10-20-2009, 10:49 AM

Yes, as long as there are legal drugs that possess a quality that can be abused, there will be people who abuse them.

When my wife was taking narcotics for her chronic pain due to a botched cervical surgery, I used to take her to the pain doctor every month (there were no call-in prescriptions. Ever.). She was not only one of the few regular patients who was actually disabled; but she was also the only patient (and I spoke to many) who wasn't also getting narcotics from one or two other doctors, which was strictly prohibited. So there's abuse - but at least these people aren't out committing crimes to buy heroin.

But go ahead and legalize pot - the money we spend fighting its use and the cost to our prison system is ridiculous. Maybe it would free up some resources to catch some violent criminals.

ShaniFaye · 10-20-2009, 10:52 AM

Well going by that criteria, its no different than when I drink. Drinking makes me stupid and less aware of my surroundings, and it makes me puke...something pot never did.

My choice was always pot over drinking, and it would be today if it were legal, specially since I cant drink anymore

MJ doesnt affect everyone the same way that drinking doesnt, When I drink Im much more apt to sit around and people watch then when I smoked pot, being high was fun for me, it made me more animated, but then of course I know people just the opposite.

To me one is not any better or worse than the other, if one is legal so should the other.

wooÐs · 10-20-2009, 10:54 AM

Does it make you any more uncomfortable knowing your daughter would have easier access to it Shani? Or does it not really matter? I'm thinking if I had kids, I wouldn't be happy about it. But I guess I don't know for sure.

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooÐs

Of course they're already smoking it. I started early too. But that doesn't make it ok imo. Speaking from a personal standpoint, it makes me more stupid and much less alert of my surroundings. I can't stand smoking around others as it doesn't make me more social. I shut up and just play pong in my head. By no means do I come to new realizations of space and / or architecture. It's just extra-curricular. I'm worthless while high. Throw me a brownie and some milk and sit me in front of a computer or tv.

Yeah pot does nothing for me either, just makes me veg., eat everything in the house and then want to sleep. But different strokes for different folks. All users have a drug of choice. Some people like upper, others downers. Myself if there were no consequences for use I'd totally be a speed freak. Back in the late 70's, early 80's when "cross tops" and "black beauty's" were widely available (AKA mommies diet pills) I preferred them far more then pot or alcohol. Sadly speed comes with neg. lifestyle changes like open sores on your face and your teeth falling out. Not to mention paranoia and eventually a complete loss of reality. I'll pass thank-you.

But I know people who like to smoke then go work out or engage in hobbies such as building, painting, fishing.

ShaniFaye · 10-20-2009, 10:59 AM

It doesnt bother me any more or less than knowing she has easy access to alcohol. There is all kinds of alcohol in my house, which she has tried at one point or another. Why would I be more uncomfortable with pot if it were legal than alcohol?

wooÐs · 10-20-2009, 11:02 AM

And I'm down with that. Recreational use ttly. But there are plenty of those out there who would and could smoke it like cigarettes. A couple on this forum even lol. That would not be a good idea I don't fink. But I honestly don't know. Just my thawts.

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

It doesnt bother me any more or less than knowing she has easy access to alcohol. There is all kinds of alcohol in my house, which she has tried at one point or another. Why would I be more uncomfortable with pot if it were legal than alcohol?

With it being a 'gateway drug,' etc. Then again, you're different from the typical parent I think. From what I've seen anyways lol.

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yournamehere

But go ahead and legalize pot - the money we spend fighting its use and the cost to our prison system is ridiculous. Maybe it would free up some resources to catch some violent criminals.

I worked parole and probation for around 20yrs. The number of sex offenders and violent criminals we released over the years due to min. federal drug sentencing requirements would make the average tax payer ill.

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooÐs

With it being a 'gateway drug,' etc.

Just FYI, numerous studies have completely debunked the bullshit old Henry Anslinger Vendetta / Gateway Drug Theory.

remy1492 · 10-20-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

Fun fact: Medical marijuana is a recognized treatment for my illness. It's possible that I could get it if I wanted to, and if I could find a doctor willing to go down that road with me.

Of course law enforcement doesn't want marijuana legalized. If it was legal, who would pay for their attack helicopters and fancy assault weapons and so on?

WEll if you were LE, would you rather go chase down a big importer with machine guns, or pick on the cripple dude with some plants in his yard for his cancer?

wooÐs · 10-20-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

Just FYI, numerous studies have completely debunked the bullshit old Henry Anslinger Vendetta / Gateway Drug Theory.

See that? That's how much I know about this sort of thing lol. I'm just thinking I'd rather find a beer can under my kids bed than a bag of weed.

ShaniFaye · 10-20-2009, 11:15 AM

But why are the two different in terms of one being worse than the other? They both inhibit you, and the both can make you want waffle house at 3 am lol

Shoot, I never went thru withdrawal not smoking herb, cant stay that about steady drinking of alcohol

wooÐs · 10-20-2009, 11:20 AM

Probably because my parents viewed one as worse than the other. And I just feel that's how things roll. I've done virtually every drug under the spectrum (except needles,) but I don't necessarily want my kid do follow in my footsteps.

ShaniFaye · 10-20-2009, 11:27 AM

Well I certainly dont want my child being the coke head at age 19 that I was, but then neither did my parents, I have to be smart enough to educate my child. My parents thought the way to do it was to rant about the evils, not about the consequences, which is what I do with Amanda.

What she chooses to so with that information regarding pot, alcohol, coke, meth, scripts etc is up to her, but its up to me to make sure she is more informed than I was (remember I was a pre DARE kid, MADD didnt even show up until I was a senior in high school). Id much rather she light up a joint every now an then than become a raging teen drinking. Drinking is way more harmful than smoking pot, in many ways.

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remy1492

WEll if you were LE, would you rather go chase down a big importer with machine guns, or pick on the cripple dude with some plants in his yard for his cancer?

You know I think the answer to that question is they'd like to go get the big fish. The macho nature in which they live feeds the need for the thrill of the big "kill."

---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:22 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

Drinking is way more harmful than smoking pot, in many ways.

I completely agree with that. I've seen a lot of people retire and come down here. Many of them start drinking and don't stop til their dead. I've seen people seemingly age 10-20 yrs in 2. I honestly think they'd be better off toking.

Watching them has caused me to live mostly alcohol free during the week.

snowy · 10-20-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

But why are the two different in terms of one being worse than the other? They both inhibit you, and the both can make you want waffle house at 3 am lol

Yes, I would like to see it legalized. I think if it were legal, we could regulate it, and it would be out in the open instead of behind closed doors. I appreciate the Obama administration at least taking the time to clarify the federal position on state medical marijuana laws, even if that clarity isn't quite clear

I agree with what others have said--the war on MJ is a waste of government resources and prison space.

Tully Mars · 10-20-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

Broad? Sure. And how many of the X million pot users in the US have these conditions? 3%? Less?

Please. Let's be realistic here. Recreational use is mondo far beyond medicinal use. Just be honest.

Stats are cute, conditions are fine... but the reality of the situation is that it's about happy funtime.

For me, that's the biggest obstacle that potheads face. It's about presentation of their case.

Sorry I missed this earlier...

3%? I don't know. I don't even know how you'd come up with an accurate %. Personally I think the number would be much closer to 50%, but that number, like yours, comes right out of my butt. I think it's closer to 50%, maybe higher, because it's so readily available and the risk and consequences for getting caught is pretty slight for personal use. Why jump through a bunch of hoops to get a card if you can smoke relatively carefree without?

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 07:13 PM

Wait, translate that for me...

Did you just suggest that 50% of pot users have an actual medical condition? That's what I was trying to get it.

girldetective · 10-20-2009, 09:18 PM

The OP was about the feds initiative in prosecuting medical mj growers in states that have legalized marijuana. I think is is long overdue. In fact, I think it should not be a casual, memo it should be outlined fair and square for everyone. Laws need to be clear, and this one needs to be crystal. I followed a case a few years ago for a while about a legalized mj grower in CA being found guilty based on the information the the judge was allowed to give the jurors. This was when whatshisname was doggin it. When the jury was polled coming out of the courthouse they were all pretty appalled to learn that the man had been legalized by the state. Apparently, the jury was cloistered from media. I dont know the end outcome, but I suspect the man appealed or is appealing it. Nonetheless, his life financially must be ruined due to atty fees, and certainly his life has changed dramatically.

Like Snowy, I smoke dope regularly and I like it and I sort of resent needing to run around hiding it. On the other hand, unlike Snow, I dont know that it should be legalized because it would be so available and so many people would use it and then we would get no work done at all. On the third hand, sits the idea of how many folks with mental health issues are self-medicating, and what if they didnt have this? It could be worse, I could have no mj and then there would be no medicating of this girl and no work done. Trouble, I say, either way.

I suppose it could be classified similarly to alcohol and sold with regulation, but it takes some of the glamor out of it. I like the idea of the law turning the other cheek in these matters unless there are horrible offenses or the users are not adults, or responsible. In those cases, I believe the person should be investigated for those crimes, not the crime of being stoned.

Im stoned right now hence the long post; sue me.

besitos

Plan9 · 10-20-2009, 09:22 PM

Tully Mars · 10-21-2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

Wait, translate that for me...

Did you just suggest that 50% of pot users have an actual medical condition? That's what I was trying to get it.

No, I suggested 50% of those jumping through the hoops to obtain a MJ card in their state have actual medical conditions and use MJ for treatment rather than recreation.

10-20-2009, 02:30 AM	#1 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	DOJ and medical MJ users... A Justice Department memo, sent Monday to federal prosecutors in California and 13 other states whose laws allow medical use of marijuana, provides guidelines to implement the policy Attorney General Eric Holder announced in March: that federal authorities should refrain from arresting or prosecuting people who are complying with their state's laws. Story here Welcome news in my opinion. Personally I'd like them to just legalize it completely. How do you feel about this? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

10-20-2009, 03:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
GreyWolf Sober Location: Eastern Canada	You, my friend, are probably now on a Hell's Angels or other organised crime hit list. Who do you think is pushing so hard AGAINST legalisation (and providing LOTS of $$$ to those politicians against it)? __________________ *The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.*

10-20-2009, 06:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Iliftrocks Junkie Location: Near Raleigh, NC	Drugs also bring in a crap-load of money to law enforcement and buys them good ole boys some nice toys. Of course they are against decriminalizing or outright legalization. __________________ bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

10-20-2009, 07:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Taxing drugs would do the same. This is all about Morality and Standards, not the reality of Reefer Madness. ... I still think that the federal legislature should dictate the rules. They're slow, inefficient, behind the times, corrupt... but they're what we've got. To suggest that we need change now-now-now goes against the purpose of our government: painfully slow and deliberate, not swayed by trends. ... The "bad guys" will still make plenty of money on coke, meth, guns and women. Decriminalizing marijuana will only be a speedbump for them. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 10-20-2009 at 07:11 AM..

10-20-2009, 10:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Fun fact: Medical marijuana is a recognized treatment for my illness. It's possible that I could get it if I wanted to, and if I could find a doctor willing to go down that road with me. Of course law enforcement doesn't want marijuana legalized. If it was legal, who would pay for their attack helicopters and fancy assault weapons and so on? __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

10-20-2009, 10:16 AM	#11 (permalink)
wooÐs Sitting in a tree Location: Atlanta	I had a friend in Cali who I'm sure was faking her lupus condition just so she could score 90 lorcets and an oz. of herb every month. Things didn't add up in regards to her flares and what not. And since lupus is difficult to diagnose, I'm 90% it was all crap. But it worked out for her I guess. Regarding making it legal, I just don't know. Last edited by wooÐs; 10-20-2009 at 10:19 AM..

10-20-2009, 10:25 AM	#15 (permalink)
wooÐs Sitting in a tree Location: Atlanta	I really don't like the idea of my kids having easier access to it. Oh wait, I don't have kids. But if I did I'm sure it would be a legitimate concern. Smoking the shit all day doesn't 'expand the mind' like some think. It makes you stupid. More stupid people on the roads and in the workplace = bad.

10-20-2009, 10:49 AM	#21 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	Yes, as long as there are legal drugs that possess a quality that can be abused, there will be people who abuse them. When my wife was taking narcotics for her chronic pain due to a botched cervical surgery, I used to take her to the pain doctor every month (there were no call-in prescriptions. Ever.). She was not only one of the few regular patients who was actually disabled; but she was also the only patient (and I spoke to many) who wasn't also getting narcotics from one or two other doctors, which was strictly prohibited. So there's abuse - but at least these people aren't out committing crimes to buy heroin. But go ahead and legalize pot - the money we spend fighting its use and the cost to our prison system is ridiculous. Maybe it would free up some resources to catch some violent criminals. __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

10-20-2009, 10:52 AM	#22 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Well going by that criteria, its no different than when I drink. Drinking makes me stupid and less aware of my surroundings, and it makes me puke...something pot never did. My choice was always pot over drinking, and it would be today if it were legal, specially since I cant drink anymore MJ doesnt affect everyone the same way that drinking doesnt, When I drink Im much more apt to sit around and people watch then when I smoked pot, being high was fun for me, it made me more animated, but then of course I know people just the opposite. To me one is not any better or worse than the other, if one is legal so should the other. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

10-20-2009, 10:54 AM	#23 (permalink)
wooÐs Sitting in a tree Location: Atlanta	Does it make you any more uncomfortable knowing your daughter would have easier access to it Shani? Or does it not really matter? I'm thinking if I had kids, I wouldn't be happy about it. But I guess I don't know for sure.

10-20-2009, 10:59 AM	#25 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	It doesnt bother me any more or less than knowing she has easy access to alcohol. There is all kinds of alcohol in my house, which she has tried at one point or another. Why would I be more uncomfortable with pot if it were legal than alcohol? __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

10-20-2009, 11:15 AM	#31 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	But why are the two different in terms of one being worse than the other? They both inhibit you, and the both can make you want waffle house at 3 am lol Shoot, I never went thru withdrawal not smoking herb, cant stay that about steady drinking of alcohol __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

10-20-2009, 11:20 AM	#32 (permalink)
wooÐs Sitting in a tree Location: Atlanta	Probably because my parents viewed one as worse than the other. And I just feel that's how things roll. I've done virtually every drug under the spectrum (except needles,) but I don't necessarily want my kid do follow in my footsteps.

10-20-2009, 11:27 AM	#33 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Well I certainly dont want my child being the coke head at age 19 that I was, but then neither did my parents, I have to be smart enough to educate my child. My parents thought the way to do it was to rant about the evils, not about the consequences, which is what I do with Amanda. What she chooses to so with that information regarding pot, alcohol, coke, meth, scripts etc is up to her, but its up to me to make sure she is more informed than I was (remember I was a pre DARE kid, MADD didnt even show up until I was a senior in high school). Id much rather she light up a joint every now an then than become a raging teen drinking. Drinking is way more harmful than smoking pot, in many ways. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

10-20-2009, 07:13 PM	#37 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Wait, translate that for me... Did you just suggest that 50% of pot users have an actual medical condition? That's what I was trying to get it. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-20-2009, 09:18 PM	#38 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	The OP was about the feds initiative in prosecuting medical mj growers in states that have legalized marijuana. I think is is long overdue. In fact, I think it should not be a casual, memo it should be outlined fair and square for everyone. Laws need to be clear, and this one needs to be crystal. I followed a case a few years ago for a while about a legalized mj grower in CA being found guilty based on the information the the judge was allowed to give the jurors. This was when whatshisname was doggin it. When the jury was polled coming out of the courthouse they were all pretty appalled to learn that the man had been legalized by the state. Apparently, the jury was cloistered from media. I dont know the end outcome, but I suspect the man appealed or is appealing it. Nonetheless, his life financially must be ruined due to atty fees, and certainly his life has changed dramatically. Like Snowy, I smoke dope regularly and I like it and I sort of resent needing to run around hiding it. On the other hand, unlike Snow, I dont know that it should be legalized because it would be so available and so many people would use it and then we would get no work done at all. On the third hand, sits the idea of how many folks with mental health issues are self-medicating, and what if they didnt have this? It could be worse, I could have no mj and then there would be no medicating of this girl and no work done. Trouble, I say, either way. I suppose it could be classified similarly to alcohol and sold with regulation, but it takes some of the glamor out of it. I like the idea of the law turning the other cheek in these matters unless there are horrible offenses or the users are not adults, or responsible. In those cases, I believe the person should be investigated for those crimes, not the crime of being stoned. Im stoned right now hence the long post; sue me. besitos __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata Last edited by girldetective; 10-20-2009 at 09:21 PM.. Reason: stoned errors

10-20-2009, 09:22 PM	#39 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	__________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."