Comedy Sketch Racist? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

spindles · 10-08-2009, 11:27 PM

The proverbial shit has hit the proverbial fan in Oz following a comedy routine parodying Michael Jackson.

US news media weigh in on Hey Hey skit - TV & Radio - Entertainment - smh.com.au

Quote:

Americans have condemned the Hey Hey It's Saturday Jackson Five skit, with US TV talkshows, news bulletins and talkback radio debating whether it was racist and if Harry Connick Jr was correct to take a stand.

On one of America's top-rating morning TV talkshows, The View, the skit was labelled "demeaning".

"We are in what people like to call post-racial America right now with (Barack) Obama in office," The View's co-host, Joy Behar, said on air.

"I'm not saying that it (racism) is gone, but we are trying to grow as a country and that's kind of a demeaning sketch that we would never do here anymore."

Behar also raised Australia's treatment of Aborigines.

"The Aborigines, they don't treat them very well," Behar said.

Another host on the show, Oscar winner Whoopi Goldberg, added: "That's absolutely true."

A third host on The View, Sherri Shepherd, said Australians had sent her messages on Twitter attempting to explain the skit, which featured a frontman in a white face impersonating Michael Jackson, backed by dancers in black face paint and wigs.

"It was really interesting," Shepherd said.

"I got a lot of Tweets from some Australian followers on my Twitter and they said our humour is different from your country's humour."

The skit aired on Hey Hey It's Saturday's Red Faces talent segment featuring American singer-actor Connick Jr, in Australia on a promotional tour.

"I know it was done humorously, but, you know, we have spent so much time trying to not make black people look like buffoons, that when we see something like that we take it really to heart," Connick said.

The major US TV networks NBC, CBS and ABC all carried the story and morning shows, Good Morning America and the CBS Early Show, also aired segments.

The skit was also debated passionately online.

On the website of leading American news magazine, Newsweek, Australian and American readers argued.

"Thanks Harry Connick, Jr. for showing the world that all whites are NOT racist buffoons," a Newsweek reader wrote.

"As a college-educated, African-American professional who confronts racism daily from cradle to grave, for no other reason than the colour of my skin; it is clear to me now more than ever, that racism against black people will never disappear but continue to be tolerated under various guises."

To put this in perspective - this segment is designed for amateur 'talent' to get on air, is usually more groan inspiring than funny.

Question is - would you, knowing this was meant as comedy (and I'll admit it is poor comedy at best), see this as racist?

If this is, what about the same thing done by a professional comedian? (e.g. Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder?).

I'm a white Aussie and I don't really see what the fuss is about. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Reese · 10-09-2009, 04:54 AM

Wasn't all Blackface routines of the past meant as comedy? I don't think it was intentionally racist. It's definitely in poor taste if it had been on American TV but it wasn't. It was in Australia which had it's own racism problems and blackface wasn't one of them.

As for Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder, It's completely different in my opinion. Robert Downey was playing a white man doing blackface. Do we also criticize actors because they play Nazis or KKK members or Serial Killers? The racism in Downey Jr.'s character doesn't go unnoticed in the film and he's called on it several times by the black characters in the film.

silent_jay · 10-09-2009, 05:29 AM

Didn't Ted Danson go to a Whoppi Goldberg Friars Club Roast years ago in blackface?
Edit: yep he did:

I'm watching the video now and to me, it's some funny shit. People need to calm down, most things that are funny are going to insult someone, like when someone says 'it's like watching a retard trying to fuck a door knob', see I probably insulted someone, somewhere, it's quite pathetic when comedy is taken this seriously.

I have issues with this quote:

Quote:

"I know it was done humorously, but, you know, we have spent so much time trying to not make black people look like buffoons, that when we see something like that we take it really to heart," Connick said.

Seriously trying to not make black people look like buffoons, has Harry never seen any rap video, that sure does a good job of making black people like buffoons

BadNick · 10-09-2009, 06:04 AM

"political correctness" usually makes me puke and this smells like that to me. One of the purposes of "comedy" is to enable people to laugh at themselves, so sarcasm, parody etc serve that purpose.

Otherwise, I think I'm qualified to see this issue from both sides since even though I'm a white guy, I did have a short soul brother career...I also have a well developed sense of humor and laugh at people who don't. Hey, I think I'll be Barak Obama for halloween! ...holding my Nobel peace of pizza prize. This is me and my soul sister back in the day:

silent_jay · 10-09-2009, 06:07 AM

Good god, that jacket is plaid....

Glory's Sun · 10-09-2009, 06:52 AM

I find it bemusing that the more non-racial our country tries to become, the more racist they become in reality.

StanT · 10-09-2009, 07:34 AM

If it doesn't offend someone, it probably isn't funny.

Cynthetiq · 10-09-2009, 08:05 AM

ahhh i remember using Darkie toothpaste... and then they changed it to Darlie. WTF?

personally, I think that it's rather silly. Even the Spaniards didn't understand the chinese eyes was offensive, it was just humor to them.

I have a right to NOT be offended by such things, just as someone has a right to be offended by something that wasn't directed at them. If they are so offended, there's something more to why they are so offending and that's their baggage that they came into the room with them not the offending people handing it out.

mixedmedia · 10-09-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

I find it bemusing that the more non-racial our country tries to become, the more racist they become in reality.

Seriously.

And if I weren't laughing right now at the mind-numbing hypocrisy contained in this statement:

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

Seriously trying to not make black people look like buffoons, has Harry never seen any rap video, that sure does a good job of making black people like buffoons

...I might find it offensive.

---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

ahhh i remember using Darkie toothpaste... and then they changed it to Darlie. WTF?

personally, I think that it's rather silly. Even the Spaniards didn't understand the chinese eyes was offensive, it was just humor to them.

I have a right to NOT be offended by such things, just as someone has a right to be offended by something that wasn't directed at them. If they are so offended, there's something more to why they are so offending and that's their baggage that they came into the room with them not the offending people handing it out.

Reacting to people behaving ignorantly is not 'baggage.' Since when has it been unfashionable to point out when people are behaving like jackasses?

LoganSnake · 10-09-2009, 08:28 AM

The fact that we're discussing this is more unnerving than the skit itself.

If nobody had mentioned that this was somehow racist, it wouldn't have even crossed my mind.

Halx · 10-09-2009, 08:36 AM

I have this great study about how whites are less likely to mention race when describing someone because they are afraid of being considered racist.

Cynthetiq · 10-09-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Seriously.

And if I weren't laughing right now at the mind-numbing hypocrisy contained in this statement:

...I might find it offensive.

---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------

Reacting to people behaving ignorantly is not 'baggage.' Since when has it been unfashionable to point out when people are behaving like jackasses?

It is baggage that the offended bring with them. They may be behaving like jackasses, it doesn't automatically make it racist.

loquitur · 10-09-2009, 08:38 AM

People need also to remember that differnet cultures have very different sensitivities. Aussies may just see this sort of thing differently.

I have a client who is a businessman in South Africa. He is not an Afrikaaner, and was active in anti-apartheid politics back before majority rule was established in the early 1990s. When I was out there meeting with him, we went to dinner, and over dessert he said to me in that accent, "We have a very happy country here now. We need to fix the poverty, but the people here are wonderful, friendly happy people. Do you know why you have racial problems in the US but we don't have them here? It's because of the people here. The blacks in the US are from the central part of the continent and gold coast. Those are awful people, sullen and hostile. The people around here are wonderful people."

I was listening to this and saying to myself "WTF??????" I couldn't think of any nice response (e.g. slavery? Jim Crow?) so, as my mother always instructed me, I just didn't say anything. But I have to tell you, here was a pretty decent guy, actively anti-racist, but had a totally, totally different view of things simply because he was in a different culture from mine.

This is a long-winded way of saying that context is important even in this sort of thing.

spindles · 10-09-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loquitur

People need also to remember that differnet cultures have very different sensitivities. Aussies may just see this sort of thing differently.

True. If Harry Connick Jr wasn't a judge on the show in question, this probably wouldn't have been a news story at all.

mixedmedia · 10-09-2009, 02:01 PM

I don't even need to watch the skit because whether it is 'racist' or not is irrelevant. I think the word racist is used inappropriately a lot of the time when what we are really talking about is insensitivity and jackass-ism. No, these are not offenses as unforgivable as racism, but it is disingenuous to purport that they are totally harmless. And that they are not possibly indicative of at least some capacity for racial intolerance. I don't see it as being any more reactionary to comment about it than it is to comment on any other disagreeable personality trait a person might exhibit. And, as for baggage, what about the baggage that makes people react by bringing up rappers every time an issue like this is raised...that isn't baggage? I can't remember one time ever hearing that Eminem made white people look like buffoons. I can't even begin to count how many times I have heard the reverse logic used to characterize black people.

filtherton · 10-09-2009, 02:20 PM

I sure don't ever get tire of these "Is this offensive?" discussions. My favorite is when people get indignant about other people getting indignant. Is the skit racist? I don't know. It probably depends on what is meant by the term racist. Is the skit offensive? Clearly, some people are offended. Are other people offended by the fact that other other people find the skit offensive? Yes. Is this double-reactionary offensiveness both hypocritical and stupid? Yes and yes.

Please, please, somebody use the word "pussification" before I forget that only pussies are capable of being culturally sensitive.

LoganSnake · 10-09-2009, 03:23 PM

It's hard to be culturally sensitive when your culture doesn't understand why skits such as those are offensive.

mixedmedia · 10-09-2009, 03:39 PM

Australia has its own history of racism and using entertainment to mock non-whites. I don't buy the 'Australians don't know blackface is offensive bit.'

LoganSnake · 10-09-2009, 03:56 PM

And Russia has history with mocking Jews. However, they don't see anything wrong with mocking blacks or asians. You don't have to buy it for something to exist and be real.

Every country has a history of racism. They're usually only sensitive to their racial "niche".

Halanna · 10-09-2009, 04:14 PM

Is this a vote? I vote no, it's not racist.

filtherton · 10-09-2009, 04:18 PM

So Logan, as the selfdesignated tfp Aussie cultural representative, you're telling me that I should be culturally sensitive the the cultural insensitivity of the Australian people? That I should be sensitive the the inability of the Australian people to be sensitive?

mixedmedia · 10-09-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

So Logan, as the selfdesignated tfp Aussie cultural representative, you're telling me that I should be culturally sensitive the the cultural insensitivity of the Australian people? That I should be sensitive the the inability of the Australian people to be sensitive?

Exactly. This confuses me, too.
Seems increasingly that the only people who merit the benefits of cultural sensitivity these days are the culturally insensitive.

LoganSnake · 10-09-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

So Logan, as the selfdesignated tfp Aussie cultural representative, you're telling me that I should be culturally sensitive the the cultural insensitivity of the Australian people? That I should be sensitive the the inability of the Australian people to be sensitive?

I never pointed fingers, have I? I'm speaking in generalities. YMMV and all that.

You can't deny that racial sensitivity differs culture to culture. What Americans consider racist, other cultures don't. That's why if the juror was not an American, this discussion would not be taking place. Did you see the audience laughing? That's the general public.

Whether you think they're right or wrong is up to you.

filtherton · 10-09-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

I never pointed fingers, have I? I'm speaking in generalities. YMMV and all that.

You can't deny that racial sensitivity differs culture to culture. What Americans consider racist, other cultures don't. That's why if the juror was not an American, this discussion would not be taking place. Did you see the audience laughing? That's the general public.

Whether you think they're right or wrong is up to you.

I don't care whether they're right or wrong. It's all relative. What I do find interesting is that the fact that you have people in this thread getting all bent out of shape at the thought of other people getting bent out of shape. People are reflexively offended by the perceived reflexive offense of other people.

LoganSnake · 10-09-2009, 07:22 PM

Maybe people think that other people need to develop a sense of humor.

Maybe people think that other people need to stop looking for something that isn't there.

What ever the reason is, this is not unusual. "I can't believe you think such and such" is a pretty common response. Why would this be different? On one side you have people wondering where the racism is in that vid and why people are getting bent out of shape about it and on the other side you have people wondering how people can ignore such a blatant display of racism or to put it more eloquently "cultural insensitivity."

Xerxys · 10-09-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

... Seriously trying to not make black people look like buffoons, has Harry never seen any rap video, that sure does a good job of making black people like buffoons

I always thought this dude's opinions on what was humorous and what wasn't brought a little ray of sunshine to the art of debate.

filtherton · 10-09-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

Maybe people think that other people need to develop a sense of humor.

Maybe people think that other people need to stop looking for something that isn't there.

What ever the reason is, this is not unusual. "I can't believe you think such and such" is a pretty common response. Why would this be different? On one side you have people wondering where the racism is in that vid and why people are getting bent out of shape about it and on the other side you have people wondering how people can ignore such a blatant display of racism or to put it more eloquently "cultural insensitivity."

I have a different conception of what it means to be developed. Here's a hint: a more developed sense of humor is more inclined towards subtle, clever humor and less inclined towards overly gimmicky, stereotype based humor. Right? So as a sense of humor gets more developed, it becomes less responsive to the type of jokes or situations that make adolescent boys laugh. So the people who maybe think that we should all relax, develop a sense of humor and laugh at jokes based on racial caricatures perhaps might actually be the one who could benefit from some maturity in their sense of humor. But that's just my opinion on what the term "develop" means. That being said, I do appreciate well done low brow humor myself, and I don't think that underdeveloped senses of humor are the problem here.

Everybody has their own sense of humor and that's fine. I don't care if the skit is racist. It doesn't matter to me. I don't care if other people think it's funny. It doesn't matter to me. I just think it's interesting how defensive some folks can get when someone questions the things they find funny. I think it's interesting how, instead of simply saying, "You know what, I disagree that this is racist, I think it's funny, etc," they respond with "My sense of humor isn't dumb, your sense of humor is dumb."

rahl · 10-09-2009, 09:42 PM

Where is the outrage when a black or latino comic makes racist skits or jokes. I'm so sick of racism only being attributed to white people. Racism is wrong no matter who you are.

kutulu · 10-10-2009, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Australia has its own history of racism and using entertainment to mock non-whites. I don't buy the 'Australians don't know blackface is offensive bit.'

Seriously, just like I didn't buy the Spanish basketball team "not knowing" that slanting their eyes was offensive.

Malik · 10-10-2009, 12:31 AM

BET offends me more than this video.

dlish · 10-10-2009, 02:48 AM

MM, sure we know what blackface is, but its not a part of our history, so we dont find it offensive.

in south africa, a kafir is a derogatory term, in the arab world means disbeliever. use the term outside of where its deemed offensive, and its a non-issue.

i agree, that had Harry Connick Jnr not been a judge, this wouldnt have been news worthy. he even gave a zero for a score. bad sport

i emember watching Hey Hey its Saturday while growing up, and i can swear ive seen numerous blackfaces on Hey Hey over the years. why's it an issue now?

Tully Mars · 10-10-2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish

MM, sure we know what blackface is, but its not a part of our history, so we dont find it offensive.

in south africa, a kafir is a derogatory term, in the arab world means disbeliever. use the term outside of where its deemed offensive, and its a non-issue.

i agree, that had Harry Connick Jnr not been a judge, this wouldnt have been news worthy. he even gave a zero for a score. bad sport

i emember watching Hey Hey its Saturday while growing up, and i can swear ive seen numerous blackfaces on Hey Hey over the years. why's it an issue now?

I agree this has everything to do with location and context. Sans those issues it's much ado about nothing. Had they done it in the US I'd feel completely different. But they didn't they just had a US judge on the panel.

percy · 10-10-2009, 06:12 AM

Everyone is entitled to be offended for whatever reason at anytime whether they fully acknowledge or understand the concepts or fundemental principles of what they are being offended by.

And since most people have the inability to objectively assess and interpret what ever so-called socially constructed bane on our existence is, we must therefore be enlightened with soundbites that fit correctly into our social structure that leave us feeling content and informed, even if that is not the case.

The word racism fit wonderfully into this context, as do others such as democracy, global warming and conspiracy theory.

Halx · 10-10-2009, 06:31 AM

I wrote a blog post about this: Don't Feed the Animals: I'm not racist if I never mention race.

The Aussie skit was not meant for American audiences. That should be obvious because none of us seem to find it funny. Let them have their laughs... its a different culture.

tisonlyi · 10-10-2009, 08:51 AM

If the humour on that show is generally about wildly, cartoonishly characterising traits of any of their victims then I can't for the life of me see how that can be described as racist.

I just can't.

If, on the other hand, the only groups of people to be subjected to this type of treatment are racial minorities, then yes. This is racist.

Logan, can you tell us all a little more about how that particular show or the people involved generally portray characters? Are these outrageous characterisations pretty much par for the course?

'Adolescent' humour, 'low brow' humour is still humour and it's still allowed. Knob gags, fart gags, shit, piss, fuck, toilet, sweary gags and unsophisticated contrasts, etc are still allowed. They're still funny, they're always going to be popular while we have taboos.

The more certain types wind themselves up about the sensitivities we all, rightly, have to show towards each other depending on race, then both sophisticated and unsophisticated jokes involving race will be a sordid reaction to it. (With the best will in the world, Australians in general aren't stereotyped with an excess of sophistication

)

If you feel offended by it, then that's exactly the reason it exists.

A lot of people who appreciate 'high' culture really do tend towards the opinion that no other elements of 'lesser' culture are allowable or appreciable, with anything they find in the least objectionable in there immediately condemned as 'unacceptable'.

Can I ask you, good people of TFP, is this sketch racist/unacceptable/insensitive?

YouTube - Bo Selecta - Mj's Crib

Just to let you know, this show originally airs on the ultra-pc (at times) and ultra-anti-pc ( at times ) Channel 4 in the UK.

LoganSnake · 10-10-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tisonlyi

Logan, can you tell us all a little more about how that particular show or the people involved generally portray characters? Are these outrageous characterisations pretty much par for the course?

No, I cannot. I've never seen that show, but I am familiar with where they're coming from because I have seen similar "cultural insensitivity" in other clips as well as numerous Russian and Ukrainian shows. They don't see it as racist or insensitive because they've never dealt with that particular topic of racism. To them it's funny. To them it's harmless. Most importantly, it's not taboo. Nobody would look down on you if you paint your face black to portray a black person.

mixedmedia · 10-10-2009, 09:40 AM

No one is trying to tell them they can't do it.

I swear, do none of you get the hypocrisy here? You want the humor AND you want no one to comment on it when they think it's inappropriate. How is that reasonable?

Again, it's very hard to understand what is so confusing about someone having a negative reaction to blackface. Knowing what I know about Harry Connick, I understand it even more.

filtherton · 10-10-2009, 11:45 AM

Seriously, MM. I'm just waiting for someone to say that they didn't find the skit offensive without adding on some sort of contrived analysis implying some deficiency in those who did find it offensive.

I don't like olives. I can say that without questioning the palates of folks who do like them. I do like hot dogs. I can accept the fact that some people don't like them without having to conjure up some sort of convoluted defense of hot dogs and without writing a treatise on the snobbishness of those who would deny the yummyness of hot dogs. Why is this type of thing so difficult for people to do when it comes to different interpretations of humor?

LoganSnake · 10-10-2009, 02:38 PM

Because you need to look at things relatively. That's the way I see it. That's why I replied the way I did.

The major reason, however, is the very topic of racism in the United States as it pertains to blacks. The media ois oversaturated with it. I don't think I'm too wrong if I think that people are tired of hearing racism called on far too many things.

Punk.of.Ages · 10-10-2009, 05:07 PM

Heh.

They're all doctors...

10-09-2009, 04:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	Wasn't all Blackface routines of the past meant as comedy? I don't think it was intentionally racist. It's definitely in poor taste if it had been on American TV but it wasn't. It was in Australia which had it's own racism problems and blackface wasn't one of them. As for Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder, It's completely different in my opinion. Robert Downey was playing a white man doing blackface. Do we also criticize actors because they play Nazis or KKK members or Serial Killers? The racism in Downey Jr.'s character doesn't go unnoticed in the film and he's called on it several times by the black characters in the film. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

10-09-2009, 06:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Good god, that jacket is plaid.... __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

10-09-2009, 08:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	ahhh i remember using Darkie toothpaste... and then they changed it to Darlie. WTF? personally, I think that it's rather silly. Even the Spaniards didn't understand the chinese eyes was offensive, it was just humor to them. I have a right to NOT be offended by such things, just as someone has a right to be offended by something that wasn't directed at them. If they are so offended, there's something more to why they are so offending and that's their baggage that they came into the room with them not the offending people handing it out. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

10-09-2009, 08:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	The fact that we're discussing this is more unnerving than the skit itself. If nobody had mentioned that this was somehow racist, it wouldn't have even crossed my mind. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

10-09-2009, 08:36 AM	#11 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I have this great study about how whites are less likely to mention race when describing someone because they are afraid of being considered racist. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

10-09-2009, 06:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	"political correctness" usually makes me puke and this smells like that to me. One of the purposes of "comedy" is to enable people to laugh at themselves, so sarcasm, parody etc serve that purpose. Otherwise, I think I'm qualified to see this issue from both sides since even though I'm a white guy, I did have a short soul brother career...I also have a well developed sense of humor and laugh at people who don't. Hey, I think I'll be Barak Obama for halloween! ...holding my Nobel peace of pizza prize. This is me and my soul sister back in the day:

10-09-2009, 06:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	I find it bemusing that the more non-racial our country tries to become, the more racist they become in reality.

10-09-2009, 07:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	If it doesn't offend someone, it probably isn't funny.

10-09-2009, 08:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
loquitur Junkie Location: NYC	People need also to remember that differnet cultures have very different sensitivities. Aussies may just see this sort of thing differently. I have a client who is a businessman in South Africa. He is not an Afrikaaner, and was active in anti-apartheid politics back before majority rule was established in the early 1990s. When I was out there meeting with him, we went to dinner, and over dessert he said to me in that accent, "We have a very happy country here now. We need to fix the poverty, but the people here are wonderful, friendly happy people. Do you know why you have racial problems in the US but we don't have them here? It's because of the people here. The blacks in the US are from the central part of the continent and gold coast. Those are awful people, sullen and hostile. The people around here are wonderful people." I was listening to this and saying to myself "WTF??????" I couldn't think of any nice response (e.g. slavery? Jim Crow?) so, as my mother always instructed me, I just didn't say anything. But I have to tell you, here was a pretty decent guy, actively anti-racist, but had a totally, totally different view of things simply because he was in a different culture from mine. This is a long-winded way of saying that context is important even in this sort of thing.

10-09-2009, 02:01 PM	#15 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I don't even need to watch the skit because whether it is 'racist' or not is irrelevant. I think the word racist is used inappropriately a lot of the time when what we are really talking about is insensitivity and jackass-ism. No, these are not offenses as unforgivable as racism, but it is disingenuous to purport that they are totally harmless. And that they are not possibly indicative of at least some capacity for racial intolerance. I don't see it as being any more reactionary to comment about it than it is to comment on any other disagreeable personality trait a person might exhibit. And, as for baggage, what about the baggage that makes people react by bringing up rappers every time an issue like this is raised...that isn't baggage? I can't remember one time ever hearing that Eminem made white people look like buffoons. I can't even begin to count how many times I have heard the reverse logic used to characterize black people. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

10-09-2009, 02:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I sure don't ever get tire of these "Is this offensive?" discussions. My favorite is when people get indignant about other people getting indignant. Is the skit racist? I don't know. It probably depends on what is meant by the term racist. Is the skit offensive? Clearly, some people are offended. Are other people offended by the fact that other other people find the skit offensive? Yes. Is this double-reactionary offensiveness both hypocritical and stupid? Yes and yes. Please, please, somebody use the word "pussification" before I forget that only pussies are capable of being culturally sensitive.

10-09-2009, 03:23 PM	#17 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	It's hard to be culturally sensitive when your culture doesn't understand why skits such as those are offensive. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

10-09-2009, 03:39 PM	#18 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	Australia has its own history of racism and using entertainment to mock non-whites. I don't buy the 'Australians don't know blackface is offensive bit.' __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

10-09-2009, 03:56 PM	#19 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	And Russia has history with mocking Jews. However, they don't see anything wrong with mocking blacks or asians. You don't have to buy it for something to exist and be real. Every country has a history of racism. They're usually only sensitive to their racial "niche". __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

10-09-2009, 04:14 PM	#20 (permalink)
Halanna Insane Location: Over the rainbow . .	Is this a vote? I vote no, it's not racist.

10-09-2009, 04:18 PM	#21 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	So Logan, as the selfdesignated tfp Aussie cultural representative, you're telling me that I should be culturally sensitive the the cultural insensitivity of the Australian people? That I should be sensitive the the inability of the Australian people to be sensitive?

10-09-2009, 07:22 PM	#25 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Maybe people think that other people need to develop a sense of humor. Maybe people think that other people need to stop looking for something that isn't there. What ever the reason is, this is not unusual. "I can't believe you think such and such" is a pretty common response. Why would this be different? On one side you have people wondering where the racism is in that vid and why people are getting bent out of shape about it and on the other side you have people wondering how people can ignore such a blatant display of racism or to put it more eloquently "cultural insensitivity." __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

10-09-2009, 09:42 PM	#28 (permalink)
rahl Junkie Location: Ohio	Where is the outrage when a black or latino comic makes racist skits or jokes. I'm so sick of racism only being attributed to white people. Racism is wrong no matter who you are. __________________ "Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

10-10-2009, 12:31 AM	#30 (permalink)
Malik Upright Location: USA	BET offends me more than this video.

10-10-2009, 02:48 AM	#31 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	MM, sure we know what blackface is, but its not a part of our history, so we dont find it offensive. in south africa, a kafir is a derogatory term, in the arab world means disbeliever. use the term outside of where its deemed offensive, and its a non-issue. i agree, that had Harry Connick Jnr not been a judge, this wouldnt have been news worthy. he even gave a zero for a score. bad sport i emember watching Hey Hey its Saturday while growing up, and i can swear ive seen numerous blackfaces on Hey Hey over the years. why's it an issue now? __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

10-10-2009, 06:12 AM	#33 (permalink)
percy Addict	Everyone is entitled to be offended for whatever reason at anytime whether they fully acknowledge or understand the concepts or fundemental principles of what they are being offended by. And since most people have the inability to objectively assess and interpret what ever so-called socially constructed bane on our existence is, we must therefore be enlightened with soundbites that fit correctly into our social structure that leave us feeling content and informed, even if that is not the case. The word racism fit wonderfully into this context, as do others such as democracy, global warming and conspiracy theory.

10-10-2009, 06:31 AM	#34 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I wrote a blog post about this: Don't Feed the Animals: I'm not racist if I never mention race. The Aussie skit was not meant for American audiences. That should be obvious because none of us seem to find it funny. Let them have their laughs... its a different culture. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

10-10-2009, 09:40 AM	#37 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	No one is trying to tell them they can't do it. I swear, do none of you get the hypocrisy here? You want the humor AND you want no one to comment on it when they think it's inappropriate. How is that reasonable? Again, it's very hard to understand what is so confusing about someone having a negative reaction to blackface. Knowing what I know about Harry Connick, I understand it even more. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

10-10-2009, 11:45 AM	#38 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Seriously, MM. I'm just waiting for someone to say that they didn't find the skit offensive without adding on some sort of contrived analysis implying some deficiency in those who did find it offensive. I don't like olives. I can say that without questioning the palates of folks who do like them. I do like hot dogs. I can accept the fact that some people don't like them without having to conjure up some sort of convoluted defense of hot dogs and without writing a treatise on the snobbishness of those who would deny the yummyness of hot dogs. Why is this type of thing so difficult for people to do when it comes to different interpretations of humor?

10-10-2009, 02:38 PM	#39 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Because you need to look at things relatively. That's the way I see it. That's why I replied the way I did. The major reason, however, is the very topic of racism in the United States as it pertains to blacks. The media ois oversaturated with it. I don't think I'm too wrong if I think that people are tired of hearing racism called on far too many things. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

10-10-2009, 05:07 PM	#40 (permalink)
Punk.of.Ages Forming Location: ....a state of pure inebriation.	Heh. They're all doctors... __________________ "The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager "Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike