Halx

I just spent 2 weeks in Europe and I have returned to the land of hidden sales tax. You know, how when you order a meal or buy clothes, you have to imagine the price with an additional 6-9% added on? Then you have to double or triple that if you are in a situation to tip. It all seems like a total pain in the ass now that I've experienced how the Europeans do it. They have it simple... the tax is already included in the price. I understand the Australians have it this way as well. It was SO much simpler and it felt rather... empowering.

I've been watching a few of those TED talks where some professor is telling the audience about the various ways in which our mind assigns value to real things as opposed to imagined things and I think it all comes together when you experience yourself buying something with hidden tax as opposed to included tax. Hidden tax obviously makes something look much cheaper, thus more tempting to buy or at least harder to estimate the actual value of. Nobody actually pulls out a calculator to figure out the actual amount. When the tax is included, your decision is completely informed and real. I liked it.

I also liked not feeling compelled to tip because waiters actually make wages. What a scam that is in the states! Restaurants cheaping it up by not even paying their waitresses and relying on their customers to do it. Wow, we are so backwards and inefficient here.

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Baraka_Guru

Wow, you only add 6-9%? Try 13%.

But I hear you. I'm always trying to guess what the final price will be, but doing a calculation of 13% in my head never works out right, especially since I've been so trained to do 15% (one tax has recently been cut by 2%).

The only thing they're changing here in Ontario is that they're going to harmonize the taxes [the 13% is actually 8% provincial sales tax and 5% goods & services tax (federal)]. The problem is that now we'll have to pay a full 13% even on items that were previously PST-exempt (like fast food and home energy products). However, to offset this...they're apparently going to issue $1,000 cheques thrice annually to families earning under $160,000 per year. I might profit from that, actually.

Aside from that, I'd prefer a hidden tax too. I'd like to visually see the full value of an item for exchange.

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Xerxys

It's how it's always been. I think the free market would exploit the mandatory calculation and overprice even subsidized goods. Plus sales tax varies per state.

And yes, I do pull out a calculator and sum things up in the grocery store or the local walmart when I'm certain I'm going to spend more than $15.

Willravel

It's especially nice when prices including taxes are an even number. Just once, I'd like to hand the girl and the sandwich shop a $5 bill and that's it. No dime, nickel, and some pennies. No $4.69 price tag. Just $5 even, tax included. We could finally stop mining for copper and nickel for no good reason. And doing my bills would be a breeze.

squeeeb

but people wouldn't pay $5.00 for something when they can get it cheaper and save money by paying only $4.97, so it wouldn't work. besides, there is plenty of copper and such, in fact, the earth has a limitless supply of everything we use, so you shouldn't worry about that sort of thing.

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Xazy

I like the change, I keep it store it, and every few months turn it for some real money, the pennies DO add up.

squeeeb

my daughter is currently going to college on the change that came out of my pants 20 years ago. we were 20 years old and had no money and a kid. my (then) wife (i'm currently single and available. not relevant, but just so the chicks know) took the change out of my pants when she did laundry, saved it up, and bought savings bonds. those savings bonds today are helping pay my daughter's college, so she doesn't have to get student loans, so she starts her life debt free.

yeah, the pennies do add up, in more ways than one.

it would still be nice if everything came out even though.

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stonefaceddog

That spare change is like free money. I have friends who hate change so much they will give away pennies, nickels and dimes. They keep the quarters for laundry and parking meters. I never can understand this line of thought. I save my coins until they fill up a gallon jar and then I roll them (coinstar is such a rip off) and take them to the bank. The resulting cash is my mad money when I go on vacation. When I have kids, I'll put the money in their college fund.

Another thing that gets me is people that throw away bottles and cans when they have a 10 cent deposit on them.

genuinegirly

Starbucks used to include tax with the price they post on the wall. They still might, I haven't been in one for a while. I assume there are other shops that choose to go with the European pricing method since it's easier on their customers.

The current method exists here because it works here. If a large enough contingent of the retail industry decided to include taxes in their listed prices, it might take off. Or they might loose market share. Why risk losing market share when the current system works?

Not that this is a solid reason to not have the tax included in the price, but...
Since sales tax differs (sometimes significantly) from county to county within a given state, it would require large chain stores to have different advertised prices within a short distance. Circulars would need to be printed for nearly each store location and advertising costs would increase. I'm sure there would be significant overhauls required with their price labeling system as well, which means training would likely be necessary. The expenses involved with bunking the current system are significant.

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snowy

We don't have sales tax.

In places that do have sales tax, I would prefer it to be included in the price, as in Europe. As it is, I'm exempt from sales tax elsewhere and often proffer my ODL so that they will take it off. This occasionally involves filling out a form, so I only do it with larger purchases. In Washington, sales tax varies, so I always carry spare change when I'm there.

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squeeeb

so today i bought some black markers. they cost 2.78, and with sales tax it came out to $3.00 even. sometimes it does happen.

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blahblah454

I buy most large purchases off the internet. Once in a while I get blasted with boarder taxes, but its been close to 5 years since that has happened to me. No taxes from the internet!

Charlatan

The taxes are in the price of items here. If you see $20 on the tag, you pay $20. It sort of freaked me out when I first arrived as I was used to the Canadian system of adding 15% to the price (it has since dropped to 13%). The GST here went up a year ago and the government paid close attention to those who raised their prices more than necessary. Using the tax increase as an excuse to price gouge was frowned upon and some were fined by the government for doing it.

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Xerxys

Charlatan, whats GST? And did you guys have Value added tax (VAT)? In a country in the far east, how much is the cost of bread relative to the Canadian dollar? I use bread as an example because I believe it is one of the most basic globally subsidized good there is (That and I consume copious amounts of it) out there. And just how and how much do taxes from the basic level of the consumer impact the government in the orient?

Ratman

Here in Japan there's a 5% consumption (sales) tax, no exceptions, no VAT. About 4 years ago the Gov't decided to make it mandatory to show the price including the tax. The 100 yen shops (dollar stores) and 100yen sushi places (you get what you pay for...) got special dispensation so they didn't have to change their signs, though they did have to change the price. Here, bread is not the same staple as in N. America, but a loaf of french bread from a bakery is about 250yen, or about $2.50 US. OBTW, we don't tip, either.

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Reese

GST is Goods and Services Tax. I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same as VAT. While I think it would have been better to have tax included in sale price, if it was a forced change in the US today, all I could imagine is a $2.69 gallon of milk turning into a $2.89 gallon of milk when they "add" Kentucky's 6% sales tax to the price. If you didn't notice, 2.69 x 1.06 = 2.85, not 2.89. Yes, I'm saying they'd rip your ass off just like they did when we switched to the metric system back in the 70s.

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Xerxys

^^ I hate what you have to say but I do agree with this. Shit is already expensive in Europe enough. To add the tax in would overprice basic items seeing as the cashier always has a higher number than I initially estimated.

Charlatan

GST = Goods and Services tax.

A loaf of wholewheat bread is S$1.65 or roughly US$1.14. But Ratman is correct, bread is not the staple here as it is in the West.

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Halanna

I'm not sure if it necessarily works here or if it's just a matter of what we are used to. There is a reason only 3 ( is it 4? I can't remember) countries on the planet don't use the metric system, the USA being one. It's what we are used to.

The current system ( in the USA) works because of perceived value. $4.95 always will seem more attractive than $5.25.

You equate $4.95 in your mind with 5 bucks but $5.25 as almost 6 bucks. So the $4.95 appears to be cheaper.

It would require a nationwide mandate to include the tax in the purchase price before shoppers would see the prices differently.

Just like the Buy One Get One Free that our (Florida) stores advertise. Are you really getting one free? What is the cost of one, divided by two. Can you buy two of those cheaper at another store than you can buy "one" during that sale?

Retailers exploit our inabilty to think and assume the nice pretty signs are our best deal.

But yes, I agree that other models of selling goods with sales tax included are a good thing and no, the tip for service should never be included in the final bill.

DDDDave

That is one thing I always liked about Disney World. No pennies needed.

Since they control everything that is sold in the park they make sure that everything is priced so that when the sales tax is added it always comes out to a multiple of 5 cents.

I think I read one time that they did a study on how much just taking pennies cost in terms of storage, counting, handling etc.

And all that time I thought that they did it because the guests liked it.

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Baraka_Guru

...yet....

The State of the Internet Sales Tax - BusinessWeek

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stevie667

VAT is an absoloute blessing compared to the american system of purchasing. When i went on holiday there i had no idea what i was doing with money, i have no idea how you guys manage to work it moving between different tax areas.

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Cynthetiq

Is it still the same for food and clubs?

the S$5 ++ which was + gratuity and + tax?

I like when it is all included in Europe, but I'm glad to come here and KNOW that my taxes are either a small or large portion of what I'm paying. Thus back in the 90s shopping for clothes in NJ was exactly what was on the tag, in NY it was still 8.25% sales tax. They would have 2 weeks a year where clothe were not taxed, and it was flat. Now it's no sales tax on clothes under $110 which I think is a reasonable limit. Above that is like a luxury tax for the items you are buying clothing wise. My suits never cost more than that, so no sales tax.

In Chinatown the price marked is the price you pay. No sales tax. Restaurants is different if you get served, but take out I've paid flat amounts. Hand them the $5 and no change necessary. Same goes for any guy on the street selling food.

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little_tippler

clearly the reason why the tax is not already added on is because sales tax differs from county to county, or something. I prefer it the European way, because it's easier. I mean, how hard would it be for stores to just put the price tag on an item and you pay what's on the tag? After paying, stores in Europe give you a receipt and you can clearly see on it how much of what you paid was tax. We have VAT here and it's the same in the whole country. Why does it vary so much over there? Seems odd. VAT is actually pretty high here, considering other European countries - 20%.

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Merlocke

Taxes. Suck. Period.

The new one coming out in BC is total BULLHST

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