N. Korea sentences journalists - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tully Mars · 06-08-2009, 04:55 AM

Quote:

For two families praying for the release of U.S. journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee, the news that they were sentenced to 12 years in a North Korean labor camp comes as a bombshell, as the U.S. government works feverishly for their freedom.
Laura Ling and Euna Lee are sentenced to 12 years in a labor prison.

The two women, who were arrested in March while reporting for Al Gore's Current TV along the Chinese-North Korean border, were found guilty today of "hostilities against the Korean nation and illegal entry."

"She's really scared," "Nightline" contributor Lisa Ling said of her sister in a recent ABC News interview. "I mean, she's terrified. My sister is a wife, with a medical condition. And Euna Lee is the mother of a 4-year-old girl, who has been without her mother for almost three months."

So the sentences are in and two US journalists are each sentenced to 12 yrs hard labor.

I don't know how anyone could know the facts, real facts here. I seriously doubt the US government would send these twoo to spy on the NK government. I'm also not sure they were in fact in NK. Some reports I've read have them in China but kind of in the middle of nowhere.

Think there's any chance of getting these women out now? Think NK is simply using them as pawns?

I think they're pawns and bargaining chips for the NK regime. But my understanding of NK and why they do what they do falls into the jack shit category.

Anyone else follow this more closely, have thoughts?

highthief · 06-08-2009, 08:08 AM

If they were in NK illegally, then the NK government, as nasty as it is, has the right to regulate who does and does not enter their country. The sentence is probably a bit long, however.

Tully Mars · 06-08-2009, 08:42 AM

I agree with you, but have little trust in the NK government being honest in where exactly these two people were at the time they were arrested.

But maybe I'm more paranoid then I'll admit to even myself. I don't trust most governments. Esp. those Canadians

Martian · 06-08-2009, 08:51 AM

This Is Not About Journalists.

Naturally, it's hard to say anything conclusive about a situation like this. The facts are not widely known, and probably never will be. However, in the current political landscape North Korea's position is.. awkward. Being able to hold two US citizens prisoner grants them very real power. The Obama administration cannot afford politically to ignore this situation, and therefore will have to go to the bargaining table with North Korea in order to secure their release.

So that's the obvious. From there, it's not hard to imagine that these two unfortunate women just happened to be in the general vicinity of the wrong place at the wrong time. Could they have been snatched from China? Well, yeah, such a thing wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Given how completely unhinged Kim Jong-Il is, I'm a bit nervous about any situation that gives him more power.

As for Canadians.. frankly, I don't trust our current government either. But at least Stephen Harper isn't batshit insane. Or if he is, not like Jong-Il. Jong-Il is a whole other league of crazy.

Tully Mars · 06-08-2009, 09:16 AM

No this isn't about journalist. Though I'm sure their friends and family would take issue with that statement. I think this leaves the US in a more awkward position then NK. The US has several choice as I see it and none of them are good ones. The best, for the US, might be to let them serve their time. We had an air crew in Columbia for freaking years and really made very little attempts to free them. Of course there it wasn't the offical government holding them but it ws the people in power in the area they were being held.

As for Harper not being bat shit crazy... do you get The Mercer Report?

Reese · 06-08-2009, 09:24 AM

I don't doubt that they were in North Korea illegally. I've seen Current TV reports and it's not that unusual for them to get into the heart of the region they're reporting on. It really does suck for them and their family and hopefully it's not too late to negotiate their release.

It sucks because they were just trying to let people like us see what it's like inside one of the worlds most secretive countries.

Martian · 06-08-2009, 09:26 AM

Someone outside of Canada watches the Mercer Report?

Rick Mercer is our answer to John Stewart. Or the other way around really, since Mercer was here first.

This Is Also Not About Canadian Politics, although I have lots to say about the current government. My opinions run strong on that one.

The issue here is whether or not Obama can afford to ignore this situation. In a way, it's his Yes We Can campaign backfiring on him -- his supporters and detractors alike are now discovering that he cannot, in fact, deliver the World with a rainbow, and this in turn forces him to scramble. Reasonable, moderate political moves are questioned ad nauseum. This whole situation has the potential to serve as gasoline on the fire, and I don't believe for an instant that there's anyone in Washington or Pyongyang who isn't highly aware of that fact.

It will need to be handled delicately. These women may not be released any time soon, but I don't think ignoring them outright is going to be an option. In many ways, I see this as shaping up to potentially be the first real test of the current US government.

EDIT - The CBC's take on the issue, and Obama's response to it:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/0...d.html?ref=rss

I read a BBC article earlier that touched more on the political machinations inherent in a situation such as this, but cannot now find it. I'll keep looking.

cybermike: In the current political climate, whether or not the two women were actually in North Korea is a non-issue. Of course those in Pyongyang are claiming they were, because it gives them legal grounds for all of this, which could otherwise be construed as a very serious offence. Regardless, the fact remains that North Korea is holding two US citizens and has passed on a very harsh sentence to these women in a trial that was not open to the public. Given that Washington was gearing up to vilify North Korea (likely a precursor to impose further sanctions), the timing is a bit suspect to say the least. The question now really lies in what Obama can and should do here. It's not politically prudent to leave these two women where they are, but securing their release is delicate as well. The best course is probably the most unsavoury one -- do everything possible to create an appearance of action, while taking no actual measures to change the situation.

It's an unfortunate reality of politics that opinion and appearances have greater measure than fact and reason.

EDIT #2 - A Reuters article that covers some of the same ground as the BBC one:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...dChannel=10531

Honestly, the escalating situation in North Korea scares me more than anything else going on in the world today.

06-08-2009, 08:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	If they were in NK illegally, then the NK government, as nasty as it is, has the right to regulate who does and does not enter their country. The sentence is probably a bit long, however. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

06-08-2009, 08:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	I agree with you, but have little trust in the NK government being honest in where exactly these two people were at the time they were arrested. But maybe I'm more paranoid then I'll admit to even myself. I don't trust most governments. Esp. those Canadians __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

06-08-2009, 08:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	This Is Not About Journalists. Naturally, it's hard to say anything conclusive about a situation like this. The facts are not widely known, and probably never will be. However, in the current political landscape North Korea's position is.. awkward. Being able to hold two US citizens prisoner grants them very real power. The Obama administration cannot afford politically to ignore this situation, and therefore will have to go to the bargaining table with North Korea in order to secure their release. So that's the obvious. From there, it's not hard to imagine that these two unfortunate women just happened to be in the general vicinity of the wrong place at the wrong time. Could they have been snatched from China? Well, yeah, such a thing wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Given how completely unhinged Kim Jong-Il is, I'm a bit nervous about any situation that gives him more power. As for Canadians.. frankly, I don't trust our current government either. But at least Stephen Harper isn't batshit insane. Or if he is, not like Jong-Il. Jong-Il is a whole other league of crazy. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

06-08-2009, 09:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	No this isn't about journalist. Though I'm sure their friends and family would take issue with that statement. I think this leaves the US in a more awkward position then NK. The US has several choice as I see it and none of them are good ones. The best, for the US, might be to let them serve their time. We had an air crew in Columbia for freaking years and really made very little attempts to free them. Of course there it wasn't the offical government holding them but it ws the people in power in the area they were being held. As for Harper not being bat shit crazy... do you get The Mercer Report? __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

06-08-2009, 09:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	I don't doubt that they were in North Korea illegally. I've seen Current TV reports and it's not that unusual for them to get into the heart of the region they're reporting on. It really does suck for them and their family and hopefully it's not too late to negotiate their release. It sucks because they were just trying to let people like us see what it's like inside one of the worlds most secretive countries. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

06-08-2009, 09:26 AM	#7 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Someone outside of Canada watches the Mercer Report? Rick Mercer is our answer to John Stewart. Or the other way around really, since Mercer was here first. This Is Also Not About Canadian Politics, although I have lots to say about the current government. My opinions run strong on that one. The issue here is whether or not Obama can afford to ignore this situation. In a way, it's his Yes We Can campaign backfiring on him -- his supporters and detractors alike are now discovering that he cannot, in fact, deliver the World with a rainbow, and this in turn forces him to scramble. Reasonable, moderate political moves are questioned ad nauseum. This whole situation has the potential to serve as gasoline on the fire, and I don't believe for an instant that there's anyone in Washington or Pyongyang who isn't highly aware of that fact. It will need to be handled delicately. These women may not be released any time soon, but I don't think ignoring them outright is going to be an option. In many ways, I see this as shaping up to potentially be the first real test of the current US government. EDIT - The CBC's take on the issue, and Obama's response to it: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/0...d.html?ref=rss I read a BBC article earlier that touched more on the political machinations inherent in a situation such as this, but cannot now find it. I'll keep looking. cybermike: In the current political climate, whether or not the two women were actually in North Korea is a non-issue. Of course those in Pyongyang are claiming they were, because it gives them legal grounds for all of this, which could otherwise be construed as a very serious offence. Regardless, the fact remains that North Korea is holding two US citizens and has passed on a very harsh sentence to these women in a trial that was not open to the public. Given that Washington was gearing up to vilify North Korea (likely a precursor to impose further sanctions), the timing is a bit suspect to say the least. The question now really lies in what Obama can and should do here. It's not politically prudent to leave these two women where they are, but securing their release is delicate as well. The best course is probably the most unsavoury one -- do everything possible to create an appearance of action, while taking no actual measures to change the situation. It's an unfortunate reality of politics that opinion and appearances have greater measure than fact and reason. EDIT #2 - A Reuters article that covers some of the same ground as the BBC one: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...dChannel=10531 Honestly, the escalating situation in North Korea scares me more than anything else going on in the world today. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame Last edited by Martian; 06-08-2009 at 10:35 AM..