Uber Laser. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Xerxys · 05-30-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

US lab debuts super laser

by Glenn Chapman – Sat May 30, 4:23 am ET
SAN FRANCISCO (AFP)

A US weapons lab on Friday pulled back the curtain on a super laser with the power to burn as hot as a star.

The National Ignition Facility's main purpose is to serve as a tool for gauging the reliability and safety of the US nuclear weapons arsenal but scientists say it could deliver breakthroughs in safe fusion power.

"We have invented the world's largest laser system," actor-turned-governor Arnold Schwarzenegger said during a dedication ceremony attended by thousands including state and national officials.

"We can create the stars right here on earth. And I can see already my friends in Hollywood being very upset that their stuff that they show on the big screen is obsolete. We have the real stuff right here."

NIF is touted as the world's highest-energy laser system. It is located inside the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory about an hour's drive from San Francisco.

Equipment connected to a house-sized sphere can focus 192 laser beams on a small point, generating temperatures and pressures that exist at cores of stars or giant planets.

NIF will be able to create conditions and conduct experiments never before possible on Earth, according to the laboratory.

A fusion reaction triggered by the super laser hitting hydrogen atoms will produce more energy than was required to prompt "ignition," according to NIF director Edward Moses.

"This is the long-sought goal of 'energy gain' that has been the goal of fusion researchers for more than half a century," Moses said.

"NIF's success will be a scientific breakthrough of historic significance; the first demonstration of fusion ignition in a laboratory setting, duplicating on Earth the processes that power the stars."

Construction of the NIF began in 1997, funded by the US Department of Energy National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA).

"NIF, a cornerstone of the National Nuclear Security Administration's effort to maintain our nuclear deterrent without nuclear testing, will play a vital role in reshaping national security in the 21st century," said NNSA administrator Tom D'Agostino.

"This one-of-a-kind facility is the only place in the world that is capable of providing some of the most critical technical means to safely maintain the viability of the nation's nuclear stockpile."

Scientists say that NIF also promises groundbreaking discoveries in planetary science and astrophysics by recreating conditions that exist in supernovas, black holes, and in the cores of giant planets.

Electricity derived from fusion reactions similar to what takes place in the sun could help sate humanity's growing appetite for green energy, according to lab officials.

"Very shortly we will engage in what many believe to be this nation's greatest challenge thus far, one that confronts not only the nation but all of mankind -- energy independence," said lab director George Miller.

The lab was founded in 1952 and describes itself as a research institution for science and technology applied to national security.

"This laser system is an incredible success not just for California, but for our country and our world," Schwarzenegger said.

"NIF has the potential to revolutionize our energy system, teaching us a new way to harness the energy of the sun to power our cars and homes."

Source = >>LINK<<

Huh, interesting stuff. I, for one, never EVER thought fusion was possible. Mianly because they spoke of cold fusion which I felt was incredibly unrealistic to expect the oppositte to happen from a reaction process that has been known to slow down reactions. But this, my friends this really impressed me.

I wonder how much this is going to affect current perceptions of:

a) energy
b) energy production
c) energy conservation

My take is ... and I'll go as far as to say, that it's probably useful AND feasible, but will just be swept under the rug or written off as really cool toy, now lets get back to the real life and stop dreaming. Either that or the ramifications of it being more dangerous than a nuke will begin to manifest.

But most importantly, after Schwarzenegger was named, who didnt read the rest of the entire article in his voice?

telekinetic · 05-30-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xerxys

Huh, interesting stuff. I, for one, never EVER thought fusion was possible. Mianly because they spoke of cold fusion which I felt was incredibly unrealistic to expect the oppositte to happen from a reaction process that has been known to slow down reactions. But this, my friends this really impressed me.

Did you mean, you didn't think that a controlled energy producting fusino reactor was possible? I'm sure you knew FUSION was possible, as we've been making fusion bombs for half a century...any bombs we call hydrogen bombs, h-bomb, or thermonuclear involve hot fusion.

I think we will eventually solve both hot and cold fusion, and I look forward to both...however, I'm not hopeful that they dramatically change our energy policies. We have the technology right now to use breeder reactors to generate near unlimited 'free' nuclear energy without producing radioactive waste (and in fact, these can be fed with the depleted waste from OTHER power plants), and don't do it due to environmental concerns of varying levels of validity and a strong sense of NIMBY. I don't see what will with the advent of fusion.

LoganSnake · 05-30-2009, 01:11 PM

So I'm guessing field laser weapons aren't too far behind.

Cool news.

genuinegirly · 05-30-2009, 03:05 PM

Aawww. This has nothing to do with Ubertuber.
hm. Interesting advancement. I wonder why it took so many years to complete construction.

twistedmosaic: I was under the impression that fission was required to begin fusion in fusion weapons.

Fremen · 05-30-2009, 07:26 PM

/me starts building a giant foil-covered popcorn pan

Xerxys · 05-30-2009, 07:28 PM

I didn't know how fusion bombs operated twisted, I was under the impression they simply combust. Seeing as hydrogen is highly combustible. I thought fusion was fixing two hydrogens into helium for burning process like the sun does but this is done at impressive heights of temperature. Which is why I never paid attention to the entire process. I never thought it possible to recreate feasibly. Which reminds me, I meant to ask, is this even cost effective?

On the other hand, hydrogen explodes when it comes into contact with air. Second to electricity, wouldn't fuel oil (literally from crude oil) be the safest method of energy? This is why I see it staying around for the next coupl'a years ...

telekinetic · 05-30-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

Aawww. This has nothing to do with Ubertuber.
hm. Interesting advancement. I wonder why it took so many years to complete construction.

twistedmosaic: I was under the impression that fission was required to begin fusion in fusion weapons.

yep, you're correct, noticed I said 'involved'...fission creates the large amounts of heat and pressure needed to trigger hydrogen fusion, which in turn creates more fission, etc etc for a basically arbitrary number of stages

inBOIL · 05-30-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xerxys

I didn't know how fusion bombs operated twisted, I was under the impression they simply combust. Seeing as hydrogen is highly combustible. I thought fusion was fixing two hydrogens into helium for burning process like the sun does but this is done at impressive heights of temperature. Which is why I never paid attention to the entire process. I never thought it possible to recreate feasibly. Which reminds me, I meant to ask, is this even cost effective?

On the other hand, hydrogen explodes when it comes into contact with air. Second to electricity, wouldn't fuel oil (literally from crude oil) be the safest method of energy? This is why I see it staying around for the next coupl'a years ...

It sounds like you have a few misconceptions about fusion. Fusion is a process where atomic nuclei fuse to form a heavier nucleus, for example two hydrogen nuclei becoming one helium nucleus. Combustion, on the other hand, is a chemical process that involves pairing electrons between atoms to form covalent bonds (in essence, two atoms each contribute an electron and they share that pair of electrons).

The fact that hydrogen is combustible has nothing to do with its use in fusion.

As for whether fusion is cost effective, the answer is currently no. The amount of energy required to start a fusion reaction is higher than what we can extract from it. This new laser reactor is no different, but hopefully the knowledge gained from it will allow practical fusion reactors to be built.

MSD · 05-31-2009, 10:35 AM

We can discharge 500 times the energy used by the rest of the country in a billionth of a second and create an artificial star, yet I can't buy a microwave for $100 that can evenly cook a burrito? Things like the National Ignition Facility convince me that the only excuse for anything is that we're not trying hard enough.

05-30-2009, 01:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	So I'm guessing field laser weapons aren't too far behind. Cool news. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

05-30-2009, 03:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Aawww. This has nothing to do with Ubertuber. hm. Interesting advancement. I wonder why it took so many years to complete construction. twistedmosaic: I was under the impression that fission was required to begin fusion in fusion weapons. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

05-30-2009, 07:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	/me starts building a giant foil-covered popcorn pan __________________ Google

05-30-2009, 07:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	I didn't know how fusion bombs operated twisted, I was under the impression they simply combust. Seeing as hydrogen is highly combustible. I thought fusion was fixing two hydrogens into helium for burning process like the sun does but this is done at impressive heights of temperature. Which is why I never paid attention to the entire process. I never thought it possible to recreate feasibly. Which reminds me, I meant to ask, is this even cost effective? On the other hand, hydrogen explodes when it comes into contact with air. Second to electricity, wouldn't fuel oil (literally from crude oil) be the safest method of energy? This is why I see it staying around for the next coupl'a years ...

05-31-2009, 10:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	We can discharge 500 times the energy used by the rest of the country in a billionth of a second and create an artificial star, yet I can't buy a microwave for $100 that can evenly cook a burrito? Things like the National Ignition Facility convince me that the only excuse for anything is that we're not trying hard enough.