biznatch

I completely agree. Am I devastated that the gangmember got hurt? No. Do I think he deserved it? Maybe. But that has nothing to do with whether the cop acted illegally and shelled out "punishment" instead of letting a judge do that. The cop needs to face the law just like the "alleged" gangbanger will.
Using unnecessary violence is just dumb. It could get you fired, your picture all over the news, and in the end the original "bad guys" could be (and often are) awarded money.
I hate to think about how many cops choose to use unnecessary force without it being taped or recorded somehow, and can going on living their lives as normal.
(Disclaimer, I'm not saying the cop in OP has a history of violence.)

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roachboy

what exactly do you folk mean by "a waste" when you refer to the "gangbanger" who got his head kicked after the chase(s)?
"a drain on society" as over against what? perfectly respectable looking hedge-fund managers? as over against, say, bernie madoff?

just curious.

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Glory's Sun

RB,

when I say it, it means exactly how it reads. It has nothing to do with appearance but rather with actions. If someone is continually living the life of a career criminal it serves no purpose towards the betterment of society and therefore they are a waste in that regard. If they shape up and act responsibly so my kids have no reason to fear them or their actions then they are cool with me.

shakran

I would call Madoff a decided waste. Moreso than the gangbanger, even, since his actions most likely affected a lot more people than this little punk did.

It has nothing to do with what they look like, but what they do.

Xerxys

You guys are totally profiling, there is no way in hell this innocent man is a gang member!! Just look at his baby blue eyes!!!

Attached Images

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ObieX

Anyone with a mustache-like tattoo *should* be kicked in the head.. repeatedly.

seriously wtf

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Zeraph

I'm fairly indifferent to it. It was a fairly light kick and it's not like he was doing it repeatedly. The criminal just risked the lives of a bunch of innocent people to get away from the LEOs. Then he suddenly stops. Personally I would think something fishy might be up. And you don't need a lot of power to stab someone with a concealed knife.

These LEOs are risking their lives to keep us safe for a measly ~50k a year. If we take away their leeway to do their job as safely as possible we are going to run out of LEOs and then where will you sheep be?

Halanna

As the wife of a retired career NYPD officer. Married 17 years. One child.

The general public sees police officers as superheroes. They are not supposed to have emotion, they are not supposed to have an independant thought. They are just supposed to perform to the specifications of the public and all their rules, every second of every day.

That is not the reality. Your police officers are REAL human beings.

The "suspect" or perp, does NOT care who they mow down, run over, maim, dismember, or just kill. To them, it is just a game, story, badge of honor or simply something to do. Regardless of their reason, they have no feeling nor sympathy for the victims or their families.

There is a reason we give Police Officers weapons. They are not always in the form of a gun.

We need order.

We need protection.

We need to be protected from those who will find joy in doing us harm.

We need Police Officers. Do you risk your life everyday when you go to work?

The Officer did the unsavory, but correct human reacion. Get over it.

Law and Order is not a TV show, it's real life, on the streets of America.

Thank who ever you deem, that this didn't happen in your town, to you're family, to you're friends.

If it did, you might feel different.

shakran

The logical extension to this argument is that they should be allowed to shoot all suspects because one of them might have a gun. It's much safer for the cop if the suspect is dead, and so "as safely as possible" requires that the police murder everyone they come into contact with.

The cops signed on to do a dangerous job, yes, and that's why they're given tools like guns and bulletproof vests and massive backup from fellow officers, helicopters, SWAT teams, tanks, and when necessary, the National Guard. A man lying face down, spread eagled, with empty hands, is not holding a knife, and even if he was, would have to turn over in order to use it effectively. If they thought he might have a knife, they should have stopped about 10-12 feet away, with their guns drawn, and gotten plenty of backup to handle the situation safely. It is frankly insane to suggest that this officer only kicked the suspect in the head because the cop thought he was about to get stabbed. That isn't what happened, and everyone in here knows it.

Furthermore I rather resent the implication that I am a sheep and the valliant Men In Blue are my shepherds. I am not a sheep, to be ordered around without grounds, hit, and sometimes raped by the rancher. Just because they work for me and the rest of my fellow citizens does not mean they have carte blanche to do anything they feel like doing at any time they feel like doing it.

If we allow police officers to think it's OK to beat unarmed defenseless people because we "sheep" are afraid that Officer Wonderful won't be around to protect us, then we are exchanging our rights and liberties for a misplaced sense of safety; misplaced especially in light of the fact that you are advocating allowing the cops to beat on us whenever they want. Franklin had it right. Those who do that deserve neither liberty nor safety.

IdeoFunk

Personally, I think Halanna offered a really important perspective on this topic given the above discussion. From my own experiences I can genuinely say that I've known some admirable people pursue a career as an officer for the right reasons; that is to help protect society. Further, this was a really unique and dramatic situation overall. This wasn't just some cop beating someone down for smoking a reefer. This involved an intense chase where some loser could have easily killed any number of innocent people solely because he was scum. I don't know but for some reason this sort of situation really bothers me. As well, I think it's crazy to expect a cop to not be emotionally revved up after having to engage in such a chase.

Without a doubt, yes, what he did was completely and totally wrong; both the kick and the high-five. And yea he should definitely be harshly reprimanded for this. But NO the situation is not just like you kicking someone laying face down in the head.... unless you can perhaps show undeniable evidence that this person has just jeopardized the lives of others and yourself. And without a doubt I think the appropriate course of punishment should reflect what type of record this guys had with the force.

Glory's Sun

I would just like to give an "AMEN" to this. Spot on.

as far as cops go, sure there are good cops. sure I appreciate what they do on a daily basis, however, just because someone is a cop doesn't grant them immediate respect. respect is still something that has to be earned and the sooner the public and the cops figure this out, the sooner things will be better. Respect is a two way street, not a badge only street. I don't care if people think they are supposed to be superheroes. They are trained rigorously to keep their emotions in check and to serve the public.

So really, the whole "police protect us" argument doesn't really apply here in this specific incident. I don't care if the guy was a "gangbanger" and had broken the law, the simple fact remains that it is NOT up to the police to administer any type of punishment for actions with the exception of taking that person to jail, so that the true powers that exist can decide a fate. So basically, this cop should be fired or suspended as he doesn't have the capacity to be one of the "men in blue" that deserve respect; or, apparently, the ability to control his anger in tough situations.

Samalie

I'm absolutely bloody disgusted by that.

Yes...the police often times need to get physical with a suspect to protect themselves and any innocent bystanders.

But a police officer should not get away with actions like that. Hell, in my opinion, an officer should be held to a higher standard of conduct that the "average person".

This person is in a position of trust, and he completely violated that trust by kicking a defenseless person in the head. I mean, I won't even argue that some gangbanger asshat probably deserved a good swift kick to the head for endangering the lives of so many people during the chase. But just because he might deserve it, doesn't mean the officer has any right to deliver it.

This was wrong, plain and simple, and the cop involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Sammy

dksuddeth

the ugly part of this whole rant is that some of these officers carry this behavior over to their interactions with normal law abiding citizens who are just peacably going about their own private business. They get away with that awful behavior as well. It's why you'll see more cops being killed or beaten over the next decade.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520379,00.html

yeah, people wonder why I hate the police.

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Glory's Sun

ha a distraction blow. funny.

biznatch

Nobody is arguing that cops aren't human beings.We're just arguing that if people are going to take on the responsibility of legally having a gun, and being able to use it when necessary, or any other form of force, then that very need is going to be very closely scrutinized by the people.
Do you know why? Cops, in their career choice, have the tools and power to end your life, or make it miserable.
To all the cops who hold this responsibility with humility, careful judgment, and who know where their responsibilities and rights end, our gratitude is eternal.

"the correct human reaction" isn't in the job description, anywhere. It's the enforcement and carrying out of what the law says. If we let them always react the way their gut feeling tells them to, instead of keeping a cool head and following protocol, why not just let mob justice take care of criminals? We can just let their immediate judgment handle the arrest and the punishment.

Yes, we do need protection, but only within the limits of the law.

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FuglyStick

Reprimand in this case should be a note in the cop's file. I'm not going to waste any tears on the gangsta. No boohoo for you, dipshit.

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blahblah454

To me here is what it boils down to. I will never be in a situation like this with the cops because I follow the law, and I do my best to help further society. Yes I think kicking someone lying on the ground in the head is a little extreme, but in all reality I have no sympathy for the man because of what he was doing. Would everyone here be more happy if it ended in a crash with someones family in it?

I think that peoples rights should be abolished when they act in this manner (the man who was recklessly endangering civilians).

I think that if people are so worried about getting on the wrong side of cops then perhaps they should start following the law.

Leto

---------- Post added at 10:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

Too True, I happen to agree with you.

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Jinn

Call me a cop-lover, but I thought the same thing when I saw the video. "Distraction blow" indeed, because often when someone lies prone it is to HIDE drugs or weapons. I've seen way too many COPS episodes where people stopped their car, waited until the police officer got out, and then drove off, too many perps who put up their hands in the air, wait for the officer to approach, then pull a gun out of their waistband, who turn around as if to prostrate themselves, in reality dropping their baggie(s) on the ground. If I;ve been chasing a known gang member for ten, thirty minutes, who may or may not be armed, I'm sure as hell not going to simply walk up to him to secure the arrest without backup or a "distraction blow." If he'd tased him we'd all be "oh, ok", but kick him in the head and it's a big bruhaha..

Take, for example, a criminal who decides to open fire on officers attempting to give him medical assistance after a crash..

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Glory's Sun

Jinn,

the whole point here is that the perp was on the ground prone yes, but when you watch the video, the supporting officers were what 2 seconds behind? He could have simply waited for 2 fucking seconds and then properly made the arrest. Instead, this guy pulls out a "distraction blow" for no apparent reason. I don't know how many people could pull a weapon out when their face is in the dirt and arms are stretched out in front of them. This is still in my view an unwarranted act of force and the cop should be at the very least suspended.

Sure cops have to take precaution, but going all gung-ho without any support is hardly a precaution.

Manic_Skafe

I don't have anything to add to this thread beyond what I've already said but I will say that allowing COPS to inform your assessment of the matter at hand is like consulting an issue of Maxim to understand women.

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Jozrael

Halanna: While I certainly sympathize with what you're saying, and do not sympathize with the suspect in any fashion (indeed feel disgusted by his character), I disagree with your claim that the police officer made 'the unsavory, but correct human reacion[sic]'. While it may certainly be a natural human response to the incident, one that many of the public might share, it is certainly not the correct one. The police are held accountable to the same laws we are. This does not reduce our gratitude for their service.

Unless you are making the 'distraction blow' argument, which is an entire separate animal. That really has to be dealt with subjectively, and as such I will not weigh in.

dksuddeth

fixed that for ya.

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Jozrael

I suppose I should have qualified it as 'should be'. Nominally so, they are, but as we both know, in practice this could be slightly farther from the truth than one might like.

dksuddeth

This must have been a distraction blow as well?

Birmingham police beating video Video - al.com

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MSD

What wonderful evidence, a show that glorifies abuse of power and officers with "I'm the law, fuck you" attitude. They boil down months of filming into half an hour or an hour of TV and people see what happens in a tiny minority of arrests and they deem TV-worthy, and we still get to see cops roughing up drunk drivers and acting like they're making society safer by busting a guy with an eighth of weed.

BadNick

I previously posted in this thread that I didn't think the policeman's precautionary handling of this known, dangerous criminal was "excessive" (they knew who he was before they actually captured him). I wonder if it would have caused less criticism if the police would have used a taser or stun gun on this guy?...though the effect would have been about the same or possibly worse for the perp. Again, I would support the police decision to use such means on this dangerous criminal who had already stated his intent to harm the police and has shown complete disregard for the life and safety of innocent bystanders, as well as clearly behaving in a "death wish" manner regarding his own well being so he was apparently capable of any action even though it risks his own life.

new man

Now I watch COPS occasionally and what tends to stick with me is the officers tend to know the people they are arresting AGAIN and they are called back to the same neighborhoods and homes so they already know the criminals. Isn't it a damn shame when the cops have to arrest the same people over and over again? The criminals know not to carry guns all the time because adding that will often send them to the federal pen. But that doesn't mean they don't have access to guns at a later time when you are not paying attention. The neighbors call the cops on the local gang members, they get busted for some minor crime, and 5 other guys show up at your door several nights later.

So MSD, maybe you should watch the show from that perspective.

flstf

This guy apparently required quite a few distraction blows.

mrklixx

Apparently a beat down is good for the economy.

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burkarn

its totally unethical!

Glory's Sun

wow. Those cops in Birmingham are crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if criminal and civil action was taken. They would have a hard time winning either case I would imagine.

shakran

I agree. I found the two videos pretty meaningless. In both cases you had suspects who were not lying prone, face down, with their arms spread wide and nothing in their hands. Instead you had suspects who had not surrendered, who were standing, or sitting, and therefore were automatically more ready to attack the officer than the guy this thread is about was. It would have been just as relevant to post a video of a grizzly bear attack and then claim "See? They needed to kick the suspect because a bear might attack and you don't want to have to face both at once."

Poppinjay

This guy should never have been kicked in the face. They should have taken him out into the country, kicked him repeatedly, then shot him.

His rap sheet includes rape. We punish rape like the victim asked for it. Rape can be a death sentence to the victim. Or at least inflicting a life long disease.

I undertand how the emotional response from seeing his pic can be immature and rattling. Richard Rodriguez is his name and he's done far worse to other people. Would you want him kicked in the head if you found him breaking in to your home, molesting your daughter?

Sorry, knee jerk reaction called for there. Let's all take a calm reaction to this event. He should never have been kicked. He should have been shot while fleeing.

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roachboy

yeah---i'm confused about how the question of basic civil rights got diverted onto the question of whether spectators do or do not like the guy on the ground, whether they would themselves have kicked him in the face. it doesn't matter what you think of the guy. it really doesn't. what the cops did is illegal and they should be prosecuted for it. just as the guy on the ground will be prosecuted for his actions.

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Glory's Sun

so you're advocating a crime because a crime was committed?

rape sucks and yes, if I caught someone in my house trying to molest my children there's no telling what I would do; however, this certainly isn't the circumstances of this tape is it? He's going to be prosecuted and more than likely spend a long time in the pen this time and saying he should have been murdered by the cops does nothing but make the justice system more of a joke than it already is. The cops are not the law or the enforcers of the law, they are public servants who are supposed to keep the peace and put people in confinement until a magistrate decides they should spend time in jail and wait for a trial. They do not exist to decide what punishment people should receive. If they wanted to do that they should be in a robe.

Baraka_Guru

Hrm. Rule of law. What's that? America should have built itself on mob rule, apparently.

But wait...isn't that how this "gangbanger" operated?

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Poppinjay

I hardly ever consider myself on the side of police. In fact, one of my suspicions about most police forces is that they wanted to make sure to get all males registered "in the system" in some way, and this was far ahead of Law and Order's quip to get males "in the system".

I guess the proper response would have been to have this guy already in prison (he just got out when he committed his crime) forever. Unlike your standard weekend fuckup, this guy is rotten and shows no remorse.

Crowded prisons (full of folks who smoked a doobie three times) disallow violent criminals from being put away for life. We end the freedom of drug offenders so quickly while turning rapists out on the street because they don't pose a "systematic threat to the fabric of society" -Newt Gingrich.

I guess living in a gang-ridden metro and having to see the daily reminders of tertiary degredation caused by them makes me feel less forgiving.

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Manic_Skafe

This thread is circling down the drain.

The most glaringly obvious point is that it doesn't matter if Richard Rodriguez was Dahmer incarnate of the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, he still has rights and just because many of you may be willing enough to live in a world in which the police have the right to assault an individual simply because they "had it comin'" or because you're too much of an upstanding citizen to ever be on the wrong side of the law doesn't negate the fact that the law exists to protect all of us - even the scumbags.

I don't feel any sympathy towards Rich and I sure as hell won't be writing letters to the judge on his behalf but the idea that the law exists only to protect those on a certain side of it is absurd.

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Poppinjay

On the record, I would really have liked to kick Madoff in the head. Again, a person who has done something so absurdly wrong that I find it ridiculous that a person going away for ecstacy or pot will serve much longer that he ever will.

As Office Space said, I hope Madoff will at least serve some time in a federal "pound me in the ass prison", but I know that's not going to happen. He'll get decent bread and meat, carouse with other rich criminals, and when he gets out, there will be at least one or two friends with a couple mille to lend him while he gets on his feet.

Trump emerged from bankrupcty because he's good trash TV. Martha Stewart got out of prison with a poncho and a going away cake from Meg Scott Phipps. Oh, and a new contract.

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