Does anyone believe in a literal Satan? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

FuglyStick · 05-05-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ring

When I read the OP title,
I thought you were asking is satan was literate.
Sorry, I have nothing more to add to this discussion.

Ha, I was going to make the same snarky observation.

Satan is dyslexic.

HAIL SANTA!!!!

(Now I will join ring in the corner, and we will play pattycakes while the grownups talk.)

Zeraph · 05-05-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asaris

I imagine he's just like angels, for what that's worth. An immortal spirit, who is a fallen angel like the other demons. How they fell, I don't have an opinion on -- philosophically, I suppose I'd go with Scotus's story, while historically, I guess Milton's as good a source as any. While we're on the topic, I don't think there are any spirits that used to be human. Dead humans are just dead, until the resurrection and judgment at the end of days.

But really, scripture doesn't say very much about this sort of thing, so it's all pretty speculative. It's probably a good thing, because too much speculation is likely a bit unhealthy. We're trying to become more like Christ, not trying to spend our time worrying about demons and devils.

But didn't Christ go around banishing and exorcising demons and devils? So maybe you should be worrying about them and how to get rid of them.

Xerxys · 05-05-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asaris

...We're trying to become more like Christ, not trying to spend our time worrying about demons and devils.

So that's how the zealots rationalized their lack of knowledge in the place they were going to spend eternity at ....

I loose respect for religion daily ...

ametc · 05-05-2009, 06:31 PM

I don't believe in a literal Satan just because there are so many evil(not regular evil but EVIL evil) people they couldn't possibly be one Satan. Unless.... he can divide himself into different people. :S ha

But, I don't believe in any form of Satan at all.

biznatch · 05-05-2009, 08:28 PM

To all the Christian people, don't you believe in the Bible? If you believe there is a supernatural being that is all powerful, like God, why not Satan? This is not an attack, but I'm curious.
A lot of Christians I've talked to don't believe in Satan, and I can't figure out why not. To me, it's not that much of a stretch from God, except he's "evil."
It's hard, from an atheist perspective, to understand the mechanics of religious belief. Trust me, I try, but it's hard to know what it would be like to believe. Alas, believing is not a choice. I wanna know how you guys feel about certain things, maybe I'll start a more general thread, and religious people here will be kind enough to answer my questions.

Ourcrazymodern? · 05-07-2009, 07:37 AM

Stories have influences
beyond what they could have intended
way back when, when created.

Satan is no more real than Bilbo, but they both continue adventuring through people's minds. Maybe they enjoy it.

Troublebot · 05-07-2009, 12:44 PM

Do I believe in a literal Satan? No more than a literal God, sitting on a cloud and wearing a big white beard.

Do I believe in good and bad in people, pulling them one way or the other? Fighting for their souls? You'd better believe it brother.

And some people give in to that evil in the strangest ways... like forcing their idea of "god" on others.

Shell · 05-14-2009, 12:45 PM

Troublebot, are you sure they are "forcing their idea of God on others" or is that a paranoid way of interpreting the intentions of believers who are just voicing their belief...just like you just did? They have just as much of a right to express their belief as you did in this post of yours. Not every believer is out to get you.

Troublebot · 05-14-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shell

Troublebot, are you sure they are "forcing their idea of God on others" or is that a paranoid way of interpreting the intentions of believers who are just voicing their belief...just like you just did? They have just as much of a right to express their belief as you did in this post of yours. Not every believer is out to get you.

Never said they were. I have many friends who are believers and we can talk about religion without automatically thinking the other is wrong before the discussion starts. I have no problem with people who voice their opinions, but I disagree with anyone who feels they are "right" and anyone who disagrees is "wrong"... in religion or any other subject.

And please don't misunderstand, I'm not lumping you in with the above, only answering the question.

Shell · 05-14-2009, 09:14 PM

...understood, Troubleshoot...no problem

---------- Post added at 01:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 AM ----------

Do I believe in a literal satan? Sure, why not? No, I don't believe he has horns and a red tail...but a snake in the Garden of Eden? Yes. Satan appears as any image or non-image that he wishes to in order to win souls.

When God created man He didn't want to create a bunch of robots. He wanted them to have the ability to choose between good and evil, and to choose whether or not to love and obey Him or not. Thus he allowed the very powerful satan to exist. He's real and so are his demons. I shudder when I see people taking this lightly...like playing with ouija boards, witchcraft, astrology, fortune-telling, etc.

Ourcrazymodern? · 05-15-2009, 06:46 AM

I could talk about religion, but it's much easier to talk to god. Satan is window dressing.

Shell · 05-15-2009, 09:20 AM

...True regarding "easier to talk to God"...but it's not easy
to remember to do that. Man's nature wants to rely on Self.
..."window dressing" trivializes satan's destructive power.
God is THE most powerful but satan is next in line.

biznatch · 05-15-2009, 12:19 PM

telekinetic · 05-15-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shell

...True regarding "easier to talk to God"...but it's not easy
to remember to do that. Man's nature wants to rely on Self.
..."window dressing" trivializes satan's destructive power.
God is THE most powerful but satan is next in line.

Shouldn't God, an omnipotent being, able to stop Satan in his tracks once and for all permanently? If so, why doesn't he? If not, why call him omnipotent?

Toaster126 · 05-16-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

Shouldn't God, an omnipotent being, able to stop Satan in his tracks once and for all permanently?

By the very definition of omnipotent, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

If so, why doesn't he? If not, why call him omnipotent?

The Bible has an entire book in the Bible called Job about God letting Satan fuck with a human being and his reasons why, if you gain some measure of truth from such things.

I think it makes sense that a god that would want people to have free will / choice and to do "good" would need to have a system with an opposite, which we can call "evil" for our purposes here. A similar concept to the Yin/Yang, if you are familiar... let's not get bogged down in what would be "good" or "evil" here. If God stopped the process or influenced it in some way, it wouldn't really be a choice in the sense that choices under duress aren't true choices.

I identify myself as a Christian, but I do not claim to have enough conclusive evidence to say whether Satan is a real angel made by God that fell from grace (as written in the Bible) or whether it's some metaphorical story. I don't think that it matters to this discussion, though, because whether the Bible is some factual historical book or not, the concept of an opposing choice exists and it doesn't need to have a physical form.

lostgirl · 05-16-2009, 04:10 PM

My mom loves telling me that Satan's greatest trick is convincing the world he doesn't exist.

Guess it worked on me. :P

telekinetic · 05-16-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostgirl

My mom loves telling me that Satan's greatest trick is convincing the world he doesn't exist.

Guess it worked on me. :P

You should ask her if she is quoting Baudelaire or The Usual Suspects

05-05-2009, 08:28 PM	#45 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	To all the Christian people, don't you believe in the Bible? If you believe there is a supernatural being that is all powerful, like God, why not Satan? This is not an attack, but I'm curious. A lot of Christians I've talked to don't believe in Satan, and I can't figure out why not. To me, it's not that much of a stretch from God, except he's "evil." It's hard, from an atheist perspective, to understand the mechanics of religious belief. Trust me, I try, but it's hard to know what it would be like to believe. Alas, believing is not a choice. I wanna know how you guys feel about certain things, maybe I'll start a more general thread, and religious people here will be kind enough to answer my questions. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

05-07-2009, 07:37 AM	#46 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Stories have influences beyond what they could have intended way back when, when created. Satan is no more real than Bilbo, but they both continue adventuring through people's minds. Maybe they enjoy it. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

05-07-2009, 12:44 PM	#47 (permalink)
Troublebot Intently Rocking Location: Davey's	Do I believe in a literal Satan? No more than a literal God, sitting on a cloud and wearing a big white beard. Do I believe in good and bad in people, pulling them one way or the other? Fighting for their souls? You'd better believe it brother. And some people give in to that evil in the strangest ways... like forcing their idea of "god" on others. __________________ Howard Moon: The wind is my only friend. Wind: [whistling] I hate you.

05-14-2009, 12:45 PM	#48 (permalink)
Shell Cheers Location: Eastcoast USA	Troublebot, are you sure they are "forcing their idea of God on others" or is that a paranoid way of interpreting the intentions of believers who are just voicing their belief...just like you just did? They have just as much of a right to express their belief as you did in this post of yours. Not every believer is out to get you. __________________ ..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss

05-14-2009, 09:14 PM	#50 (permalink)
Shell Cheers Location: Eastcoast USA	...understood, Troubleshoot...no problem ---------- Post added at 01:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 AM ---------- Do I believe in a literal satan? Sure, why not? No, I don't believe he has horns and a red tail...but a snake in the Garden of Eden? Yes. Satan appears as any image or non-image that he wishes to in order to win souls. When God created man He didn't want to create a bunch of robots. He wanted them to have the ability to choose between good and evil, and to choose whether or not to love and obey Him or not. Thus he allowed the very powerful satan to exist. He's real and so are his demons. I shudder when I see people taking this lightly...like playing with ouija boards, witchcraft, astrology, fortune-telling, etc. __________________ ..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss

05-05-2009, 06:31 PM	#44 (permalink)
ametc Psycho	I don't believe in a literal Satan just because there are so many evil(not regular evil but EVIL evil) people they couldn't possibly be one Satan. Unless.... he can divide himself into different people. :S ha But, I don't believe in any form of Satan at all.

05-15-2009, 06:46 AM	#51 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	I could talk about religion, but it's much easier to talk to god. Satan is window dressing. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

05-15-2009, 09:20 AM	#52 (permalink)
Shell Cheers Location: Eastcoast USA	...True regarding "easier to talk to God"...but it's not easy to remember to do that. Man's nature wants to rely on Self. ..."window dressing" trivializes satan's destructive power. God is THE most powerful but satan is next in line. __________________ ..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss

05-15-2009, 12:19 PM	#53 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	__________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

05-16-2009, 04:10 PM	#56 (permalink)
lostgirl lightform Location: Edge of the deep green sea	My mom loves telling me that Satan's greatest trick is convincing the world he doesn't exist. Guess it worked on me. :P __________________ We're about to go through the crucible, but we'll come out the other side. We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its changed form. - Children of Dune