Pastor Fatally Shot - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tully Mars · 03-08-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Illinois Pastor Fatally Shot During Service
Shooting at the First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill. Kills Pastor, Wounds Others
By KATIE ESCHERICH
March 8, 2009

A shooting during a morning church service outside St. Louis has left at least one person dead -- the church's pastor -- and several others wounded, officials said.

Pastor Fred Winters was fatally shot by a gunman during a service Sunday at the First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill.

The Rev. Fred Winters was at the pulpit at the First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill. at 8:15 a.m. local time when a man "walked down the aisle of the church," approached the pulpit and shot Winters in the chest with a .45 caliber handgun, said Trooper Ralph Timmins of the Illinois State Police, which is handling the investigation.

The gun then jammed, and the shooter then injured himself with a knife and subsequently was restrained by parishioners, Timmins said in a "preliminary release" left on his office voicemail recording. Approximately 150 people were in the church at the time.

Two parishioners who jumped on the shooter received "non-life-threatening" injuries from the knife, Timmins said.

What the heck is wrong with people? Wonder what the reason behind this is?

Do me a favor and don't turn this thread into a gun rights debate.

World's King · 03-08-2009, 10:51 AM

I blame the Sham-WOW!

dlish · 03-08-2009, 11:08 AM

why does this remind of me of Malcolm X's assassination?

thespian86 · 03-08-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

I blame the Sham-WOW!

hahaha I said that in the middle of a CAEA meeting the other day.

It's probably a) he's fucking nuts, b) he has some sort of vendetta with God, c) Sham-WOW, or d) all of the above.

gardens · 03-08-2009, 01:10 PM

I'd say that the perp. had something personal against not just the pastor but also the religion as he could have shot the pastor at any time but that he waited until he could make a big entrance and publicly "condemn" the pastor

the idea that this would have anything to do with gun control is a bit odd,
as his gun jammed I'd say we have some pretty efficient control right there

What interests me is how did he injure himself?
Was he attempting suicide and stabbed himself or was the cut incidental from the parishioners?

dksuddeth · 03-08-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

I blame the Sham-WOW!

that was funny.

---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by gardens

the idea that this would have anything to do with gun control is a bit odd,
as his gun jammed I'd say we have some pretty efficient control right there

I had heard that Illinois had implemented new gun control laws, specifically one that made guns jam after 5 shots against unarmed church goers.

ASU2003 · 03-08-2009, 03:42 PM

So the shooter/stabber isn't dead? I wonder what his reasons for doing this are?

Tully Mars · 03-09-2009, 05:12 AM

I hearing and reading the shooter may have a mental issue due to Lyme Disease. I had no idea Lyme could get that bad.

Lasereth · 03-09-2009, 07:05 AM

Wow, a news article that's not using sensationalism to put this story in the stratosphere like the rest of the agencies. There's articles going around saying that the pastor "deflected numerous bullets" from the gunmen with his bible and all sorts of stupid shit.

pig · 03-09-2009, 07:16 AM

Anyone heard anything about whether the Bad Touch was involved?

phathom · 03-09-2009, 07:32 AM

"You and me baby ain't nothin but mammals......"
IT'S THE FAULT OF THE BLOODHOUND GANG AND THEIR CATCHY BUT LYRICALLY F*D MUSIC! + SHAM-WOW!

biznatch · 03-09-2009, 08:09 AM

What's wrong with people? They're people. They snap, and go apeshit. I think it could happen to any one of us.
There should be a notice in public places similar to those "What to do if someone's choking" things in restaurants; "signs of imminent mass murdering rampage to be aware of".
It's also sad that these random killings happen so often that we end up seeing them as funny. Maybe it's a normal reaction to shield ourselves from the stress of living in an unpredictable world.
I guess my heart goes out to the churchgoers and friends of the pastor. The dude was probably a good man who just tried to help people through religion.

flat5 · 03-09-2009, 10:01 AM

I suspect he was a non believer.

Xerxys · 03-09-2009, 11:56 AM

Lasereth your wrong!! He used his staff to deflect the bullets, the bible was what he used when he turned the pages open to proverbs and showed it to the perp, shining a bright light into his eyes which then drove him to madness and end up stabbing himself.

Read the facts!!!

/joke, just in case no one gets it.

The_Jazz · 03-09-2009, 05:17 PM

It turns out that the shooter apparently has "brain lesions" caused (theoretically) by Lyme Disease. The St. Louis Post did a story about his condition in August.

Man charged in Tenn. church shooting -- chicagotribune.com

Apparently he had a lot more planned, and when circumstances went sideways on him, he stabbed himself in the neck, which almost killed him.

Wow. Just wow.

dlish · 03-09-2009, 05:56 PM

one quote that stood out from your link jazz...

"Lyme disease doesn't cause people to shoot people,"

is lymes disease being used as an excuse?? i dont think there can be an excuse

The_Jazz · 03-09-2009, 06:05 PM

I don't think it's being used as an excuse, exactly. Just a cause for the brain injury that theoretically cause this tragedy. I can attest from personal experience that brain lesions can cause violent behaviors.

Tully Mars · 03-10-2009, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

I don't think it's being used as an excuse, exactly. Just a cause for the brain injury that theoretically cause this tragedy. I can attest from personal experience that brain lesions can cause violent behaviors.

Well people with mental illnesses do crazy things, just the way it works. Sometimes people get hurt. I find it sad but if he was completely out of his mind due to an illness I'm not sure he's responsible for his actions. IMO, that why we have insanity laws on the books.

That in no way takes away the awful pain and suffering for the victims family and friends.

Xerxys · 03-10-2009, 08:37 AM

The_Jazz, could you expand a bit more on violent behaviors? Could he have possibly been so far gone that he calmly walked the aisle up to the pulpit and shot the man? I can believe the self stabbing thing could have been caused by the illness but maybe not the shooting. I think premeditation.

MSD · 03-10-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

I blame the Sham-WOW!

If you have a problem with Vince Offer, you have a problem with me, buddy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

I had heard that Illinois had implemented new gun control laws, specifically one that made guns jam after 5 shots against unarmed church goers.

This wouldn't have happened if he had more bibles.

The_Jazz · 03-10-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xerxys

The_Jazz, could you expand a bit more on violent behaviors? Could he have possibly been so far gone that he calmly walked the aisle up to the pulpit and shot the man? I can believe the self stabbing thing could have been caused by the illness but maybe not the shooting. I think premeditation.

I am related to someone with brain lesions caused by organic means (not by Lyme Disease but another vector). Between the ages of 18 and about 28, he grew increasingly eratic and violent. He was diagnosed with both schizophrenia and manic depression, which are supposed to be on the opposite ends of the mental illness charts from what I understand. There were numerous fights, several instances of stalking and some situations that probably could have been lethal had the other party not backed down. Medication was completely ineffective, unless you could lethargy and weight gain as positive effects. It took a brain scan of some sort (I guess an MRI but I really don't know) to reveal the brain damage, and that was after about 10 years of misdiagnosis. In the end, he just sort of "grew out of it" and is a relatively normal person with no real violent tendancies.

Interestingly enough, my relative was very anti-religion for a time and rants about the Babtists and Catholics were both par for the course from him.

I think that you're confusing the two issues here in terms of premeditation. I think that this was most definitely premeditated, which in no way rules out mental illness. When my relative would get in one of his "spells" (as my grandmother called them), they would last weeks and he really didn't know right from wrong where violence was concerned. Interestlying, he wouldn't steal or lie or otherwise be dishonest, he would just overreact to seemingly innoccuous events in an inappropriately violent way.

mrklixx · 03-11-2009, 08:06 AM

Bill Maher has gone too far this time.

03-08-2009, 10:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I blame the Sham-WOW! __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

03-08-2009, 11:08 AM	#3 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	why does this remind of me of Malcolm X's assassination? __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

03-09-2009, 05:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	I hearing and reading the shooter may have a mental issue due to Lyme Disease. I had no idea Lyme could get that bad. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

03-09-2009, 07:05 AM	#9 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Wow, a news article that's not using sensationalism to put this story in the stratosphere like the rest of the agencies. There's articles going around saying that the pastor "deflected numerous bullets" from the gunmen with his bible and all sorts of stupid shit. __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

03-09-2009, 07:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	Anyone heard anything about whether the Bad Touch was involved? __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

03-08-2009, 01:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
gardens Tilted Location: Kolob	I'd say that the perp. had something personal against not just the pastor but also the religion as he could have shot the pastor at any time but that he waited until he could make a big entrance and publicly "condemn" the pastor the idea that this would have anything to do with gun control is a bit odd, as his gun jammed I'd say we have some pretty efficient control right there What interests me is how did he injure himself? Was he attempting suicide and stabbed himself or was the cut incidental from the parishioners?

03-08-2009, 03:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	So the shooter/stabber isn't dead? I wonder what his reasons for doing this are?

03-09-2009, 07:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
phathom Crazy	"You and me baby ain't nothin but mammals......" IT'S THE FAULT OF THE BLOODHOUND GANG AND THEIR CATCHY BUT LYRICALLY F*D MUSIC! + SHAM-WOW! __________________ -snooch to the nooch

03-09-2009, 08:09 AM	#12 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	What's wrong with people? They're people. They snap, and go apeshit. I think it could happen to any one of us. There should be a notice in public places similar to those "What to do if someone's choking" things in restaurants; "signs of imminent mass murdering rampage to be aware of". It's also sad that these random killings happen so often that we end up seeing them as funny. Maybe it's a normal reaction to shield ourselves from the stress of living in an unpredictable world. I guess my heart goes out to the churchgoers and friends of the pastor. The dude was probably a good man who just tried to help people through religion. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

03-09-2009, 10:01 AM	#13 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	I suspect he was a non believer.

03-09-2009, 11:56 AM	#14 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	Lasereth your wrong!! He used his staff to deflect the bullets, the bible was what he used when he turned the pages open to proverbs and showed it to the perp, shining a bright light into his eyes which then drove him to madness and end up stabbing himself. Read the facts!!! /joke, just in case no one gets it.

03-09-2009, 05:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	It turns out that the shooter apparently has "brain lesions" caused (theoretically) by Lyme Disease. The St. Louis Post did a story about his condition in August. Man charged in Tenn. church shooting -- chicagotribune.com Apparently he had a lot more planned, and when circumstances went sideways on him, he stabbed himself in the neck, which almost killed him. Wow. Just wow. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

03-09-2009, 05:56 PM	#16 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	one quote that stood out from your link jazz... "Lyme disease doesn't cause people to shoot people," is lymes disease being used as an excuse?? i dont think there can be an excuse __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

03-09-2009, 06:05 PM	#17 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	I don't think it's being used as an excuse, exactly. Just a cause for the brain injury that theoretically cause this tragedy. I can attest from personal experience that brain lesions can cause violent behaviors. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

03-10-2009, 08:37 AM	#19 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	The_Jazz, could you expand a bit more on violent behaviors? Could he have possibly been so far gone that he calmly walked the aisle up to the pulpit and shot the man? I can believe the self stabbing thing could have been caused by the illness but maybe not the shooting. I think premeditation.

03-11-2009, 08:06 AM	#22 (permalink)
mrklixx President Rick Location: location location	Bill Maher has gone too far this time. __________________ This post is content. If you don't like it then you are not content. Or perhaps just incontinent. This is not a link - Do not click here I hate animated avatars.