Rape Videogame Simulation: How is this worse than shooting to death hundreds? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 02-23-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

View: Amazon Drops Rape Simulation Video Game
Source: Jezebel
posted with the TFP thread generator
Amazon Drops Rape Simulation Video Game
Amazon Drops Rape Simulation Video Game
By Margaret, 3:30 PM on Thu Feb 12 2009, 70,479 views

Reports across the pond claim that Amazon.com has stopped selling the game Rapelay, a Japanese video game that involves the player stalking victims and then raping them.

The rape simulation game involves players chasing a mother on the subway and violently raping her, and then tracking down and raping her two daughters described as virgin schoolgirls. The game includes even more horrific details according to online game reviews, such as the option get other men to join in the attacks, having to force the women to get abortions if they get pregnant, and what a review (NSFW) from Something Awful says are "tears that glisten and move in the little girl's eyes."

Following a report from the Belfast Telegraph that Amazon was selling the English version of the game, the company has removed it from the site. Amazon has not commented on the item or said why it was being sold through their website. The screen shot below from Google's cache shows the Amazon page for the game before it was taken down.

Quote:

View: "RapeLay"
Source: Somethingawful
posted with the TFP thread generator

When I fire up a modern game on a modern console or PC I am often struck with nostalgia. I recall the joys I once experienced, hunched over my Atari 2600, entranced by the vaguely human shapes moving around the screen and throwing dots at each other. I can't help but look at the roaring demonoids and wailing 5.1 surround drop ships and bounding Pinatas and marvel at how far videogames have come, but there is the nagging suspicion that those simpler games and simpler times were in most ways better. Eating prostitutes with a crowbar in Vice City is great fun, to be sure, but does it still have that same innocent wonder to it as chowing down on power pellets and blue ghosts?

In the immortal words of Eleanor Roosevelt, "So, too, go the rape games". Custer's Revenge was a joy to play, just you and the Indian squaw tied to a pole with her angry red blocks for nipples. Your proud white man's erection thrust towards her as you avoided the many perils of the Wild West, come to sting your penis. The joy of raping that Indian woman tied to the pole was simple and pure.
click to show

While don't find this game attractive in anyway and very repulsed by the very idea, I cannot help but think that the taboo here is not really much different than someone who goes around pretending to be a gangster capping people in the head (Grand Theft Auto III-IV) Or driving a car around the city trying to cause as much damage as possible to all property (Burnout)... at what point is simulation bad?

I'm having a hard time understanding just how bad this is or different than being able to have kills and headshots.

Yes, I can agree with everyone that it is rape, that it victimizes women, makes them powerless. But this is again, simulation. If you say that this is bad. How come murdering thousands by the uzi clip isn't just as bad? Is is just that the Governator made it ok with his puns and action hero movies of the 80s?

Help me understand this better. Post your thoughts as you understand them.

shakran · 02-23-2009, 05:06 PM

I tend to agree with you Cyn. There's really nothing about rape that is any worse than being a serial killer, yet GTA isn't pulled from (many) shelves.

They're both examples of video games letting people indulge in the most base of fantasies. Whether it's actually harmful or not is, I think, open to debate. Yes, you get the occasional kid who shoots up a school and immediately gets the latest shooter video game in trouble because of it. But if an adult plays the rape game, does it follow that he will then go out and rape some woman? What do you guys think. Personally, I think not. After all, I've played Deus Ex, but you don't see me shooting poisoned crossbow darts at people.

mixedmedia · 02-23-2009, 05:16 PM

I think it's disgusting and repulsive and I think most of the other video games where the major theme is thrill-crime brutality are disgusting and repulsive, as well.

Xerxys · 02-23-2009, 06:00 PM

No, not to me it ain't..... this is worse than well.... everything I've seen so far. It's rape....

filtherton · 02-23-2009, 06:06 PM

Because we're all full of shit.

edit: You're all full of shit. I just pretend to be so you don't beat me up.

fresnelly · 02-23-2009, 06:13 PM

Do you rape zombie mutant women in this game?

If you fail to meet your alotted rape quota in the set time do they rape you?

Ick.

Plan9 · 02-23-2009, 06:24 PM

This stuff makes me sick.

blktour · 02-23-2009, 07:12 PM

I would like to try the game just to see what it was about, but even then, i just feel weird typing that. haha.

aberkok · 02-23-2009, 07:44 PM

I think it's a consent thing and a procedure thing.

Take most shooters/FPS. There is an understanding between the protagonist and the antagonist(s) that you are there to fight and shoot at each other. Even when you mow down hundreds, often they are the bad guys. It's also very easy for an in-game shooting to be very impersonal. You can kill someone from hundreds of meters away in a first-person perspective sometimes.

Now say they are not the bad guys, like in Grand Theft Auto. You usually don't spend too long on them. Typically you'll shoot them fast or run them over quickly. I suppose you could if you wanted to, but you are not rewarded for this in the game as you are in Rapeplay. Also it sounds like the level of detail in the rapes is very high.

This discussion could be likened to whether a Vietnam vet is as bad of a person as a serial rapist. Conventional morality would say he is not.

QuasiMondo · 02-23-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

I tend to agree with you Cyn. There's really nothing about rape that is any worse than being a serial killer, yet GTA isn't pulled from (many) shelves.

Well it was pulled after the 'hot coffee' easter egg was discovered, but that's beside the point.

There's less of a reaction to GTA-type violence because it's so predominant in Hollywood entertainment. Lethal Weapon, The Godfather, Die Hard, Rambo, they all feature big guns and loud explosions, so we're used to it, and we're able to separate fantasy fiction from reality fiction, which as an unintended side effect desensitizes us from the latter.

Rapes, on the other hand is not widely portrayed in Hollywood, and when it is, it often stirs controversy.

In other words,

Sex, okay.
Violence, okay.
Sex + violence, not okay.

On a side note, based on the reviews, it sounds like your run-of-the-mill hentai game.

girldetective · 02-23-2009, 08:20 PM

I believe the violence of rape might be different than that in war. Rape is often meted out as punishment, ownership of another human being, debasing etc. Rape is a war crime. Rape is not perpetrated with the same intentions as most wars.

Think of your wife being raped,
or think of yourself alone in a subway car being raped in the ass by thugs and beaten up.
Think of them telling you they were going after your wife and children next.
Think of this happening on just a regular work day, in your city, while you were minding your own business.

Both war and rape are violence perpetrated against other humans. Both are horrific. One seems like it might be worse because it could take thousands or millions of lives. However, the other ruins lives in a different way, and both beget more violence.

Cynthetiq · 02-23-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girldetective

I believe the violence of rape might be different than that in war. Rape is often meted out as punishment, ownership of another human being, debasing etc. Rape is a war crime. Rape is not perpetrated with the same intentions as most wars.

Think of your wife being raped,
or think of yourself alone in a subway car being raped in the ass by thugs and beaten up.
Think of them telling you they were going after your wife and children next.
Think of this happening on just a regular work day, in your city, while you were minding your own business.

Both war and rape are violence perpetrated against other humans. Both are horrific. One seems like it might be worse because it could take thousands or millions of lives. However, the other ruins lives in a different way, and both beget more violence.

You're right, but we're not talking about real life, we're talking about a simulation.

Here's another article about the similar vein of torturing prisoners. The author is quick to point out the morality of it, and in fact thinks there should be more torture in video games to highlight it to make people think about it. Wouldn't or couldn't the rape game achieve the same thing?

Quote:

View: Why We Need More Torture in Videogames
Source: Wired
posted with the TFP thread generator

Why We Need More Torture in Videogames
Why We Need More Torture in Videogames
Clive Thompson Email 12.15.08

To play World of Warcraft now, you've got to be a torturer.

In the recent expansion pack Wrath of the Lich King, there's a quest called "The Art of Persuasion" that requires you to extract information from a tied-up sorcerer. You do this by stinging him repeatedly with a creepy instrument called the "Neural Needler," a device that "inflicts incredible pain to target, but does no lasting damage." After a few minutes, the sorcerer coughs up the info.

As you'd imagine, this little slice of Abu Ghraib set the gameosphere alight with blistering, ideologically freighted debate. Some gamers were straightforwardly creeped out. Others were blasé; games already contain bucketsful of senseless slaughter, they figured, so is torture really worse?

Pioneering game designer Richard Bartle argued that the quest violated in-game canon, since the quest is forced upon people playing with narratively "good" Alliance characters (as opposed to WoW's evil Horde characters). In the end, the Art of Persuasion quest poses a big cultural, aesthetic and political question: Should games include torture?

To which the answer is simple: Sure they should.

In fact, I'll go further. I think we need more torture in videogames.

And better torture.

I should probably unpack these statements a bit. Let me begin by putting my cards on the table: In the real world, I'm unconditionally opposed to torture. This is in part because history has proven it produces unreliable intelligence. Even John McCain signed a bogus confession when tortured by the Viet Cong.

Torture advocates constantly evoke ticking-bomb situations to argue that drastic measures are OK in rare cases, but these scenarios exist only in the fever dreams of Hollywood; they are basically nonexistent in actual, recorded history. And hey, I live in Manhattan, the Top Terrorist Target in the United States. I want good antiterror intel! But you don't get it from torture.

More importantly, torture has devastating repercussions. It permanently erodes the character of the torturer and, worse, of the public that condones the torture. What's more, torture destroys a nation's moral high ground — which is why military commanders consistently oppose it — and incites further acts of terrorism. Torture has consequences.

From my perspective, Americans aren't thinking very seriously about those consequences. The torture at Guantanamo Bay, in overseas CIA prisons and at Abu Ghraib has all gone by with relatively little public outcry.

Why? Partly because U.S. officials refuse to describe or admit clearly what they're doing. But equally important, I think, is that our mass culture is filled with wildly misleading ideas about how torture works.

Consider the popular television series 24. The sheer metric tonnage of torture rose to an almost self-parodic level in the last few seasons of the show; barely an episode went by without someone being shocked, injected, waterboarded or just plain ol' beaten senseless. Yet 24 has never seriously shown any repercussions of that torture.

For example, a CTU agent in a Season 3 episode is mistakenly accused of being a traitor, then tortured with a stun gun. When the mistake is cleared up, what happens? She stands up, straightens her clothes, goes back to her desk ... and demands a raise to ensure her silence. Brassy!

And a total, cynical fantasy. Psychologists know that torture causes, among other horrid things, lasting mental-health problems. But 24's frantically violent fairy tales are typical of what passes for mass-cultural debate about torture. We're not encouraged to think about what happens next, so we don't. It is a massive failure of the public imagination.

Which is why we need more torture in videogames.

Games are excellent vehicles for helping people inhabit complex, difficult situations. They're also extremely good at illustrating consequences: If you do X, then Z and L will happen; if you do Y instead, then C and Q result.

What's more, gamers love this stuff. Several of the biggest recent games were praised precisely because the moral acts inside them had long-term consequences. In BioShock, you could either save or exploit the Little Sisters, and your actions produced very different endings to the game. In Fable, decisions made in the first 15 minutes of play (will you side with lawkeepers or cause mischief for personal gain?) change the moral tenor of your home town 15 years later. In Sid Meier's Civlization: Revolution, as with most world-conquering strategy games, failing to make an alliance upfront can screw you down the line.

So this, really, is the problem with World of Warcraft's torture sequence. It does not model any consequences. You torture the sorcerer, but nothing particularly comes of it. You just move on to the next quest.

This would be lame in a TV show, but is arguably even lamer in a videogame, because it's not too hard to imagine all sorts of repercussions that would have been dramatically fascinating while actually enhancing the gameplay.

For example, Lich King maker Blizzard Entertainment could have made the Art of Persuasion quest optional — but endowed it with some unusually lucrative loot or experience. That would have made it a genuine moral quandary: Should you do a superbad thing for a really desirable result?

Or how about this: What if you got blowback from torturing the sorcerer? What if other non-player characters got more aggro, attacking you more often because of your reputation as a torturer? And maybe some Alliance NPCs would simply refuse to give you further quests.

On the other hand, what if becoming a torturer made the game easier to play? What if it burnished your rep as a dangerous character, making future quest opponents so scared of you that some battles became simpler? After all, that's one of the neoconservative arguments about torture: You show the world who's boss. Blizzard could have programmed not only the consequences that would be predicted by a bleeding-heart liberal, but those posited by a neocon.

What we need, if this isn't too weird a phrase, is better torture design. I'll issue several caveats here. One is that I haven't played Lich King myself, because I don't have a high enough WoW character. I'm relying on reports from Lich King players, so I could be entirely wrong about the Art of Persuasion, though I doubt it.

Here's a more nuanced caveat: Some players I talked to think Blizzard has been quite thoughtful about how torture plays into the world of Lich King. The dialogue accompanying the Art of Persuasion has several coy references to modern geopolitics: The quest-giver tells you he personally isn't allowed to engage in torture, but because you're a foreigner, you can — a seeming reference to extraordinary rendition. And other quests in Lich King — I won't give out any spoilers here — require you to mount some other fairly sadistic attacks. It's quite possible Blizzard has a much larger, slow-moving point to make about torture.

If true, that's great. Because personally, I'd like to see games that had more torture — and better torture — in them. In this alarming chapter of American history, they might wind up fueling the best public debate yet.

I'm all for torturing prisoners, I've made no secret about it. I recall playing this exact thread of quests and didn't think much of it the first time. The second time I had already read this article and savored it a bit more to really understand how it made me feel to read and understand the words I was reading. I finally came to the conclusion that I didn't feel any different than the first time which was to play the video game and get on with the quests and move to the next level. The morality this author in particular was trying to impose upon me was completely lost.

But we wear ribbons, we write letters, what about simulation to see how it actually makes you feel to complete the act without harm or foul to any real life individual. Does it make you think more of your actions? Isn't that what simulation is supposed to do? If simulation can be used to enhance bad behavior can it not also help suppress bad behavior?

inBOIL · 02-23-2009, 08:45 PM

I find interesting the differences between these responses and the ones in this thread. Is rape bad only when there are no tentacles involved?

Plan9 · 02-23-2009, 08:49 PM

Since we've thoroughly played out all of the 31 Flavors of Shock in this era... only rape and torture are left for mass consumption.

...

Great excesses. "When we sin, we sin real good." Anybody else smell the end of the Roman empire?

girldetective · 02-23-2009, 08:52 PM

I dont believe simulating violence leads to a more humane populace. On the other hand I dont really think we need the insipid Hello Kitty junk either.

Why bother? Neither are cool.

snowy · 02-23-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girldetective

I dont believe simulating violence leads to a more humane populace. On the other hand I dont really think we need the insipid Hello Kitty junk either.

Why bother? Neither are cool.

Awww...my water bottle isn't cool.

I don't think Hello Kitty really hurts anyone the way violence does. I've never really been okay with super-violent video games; this is definitely over the top. I think as aberkok suggested the major issue here is one of mutual consent.

girldetective · 02-23-2009, 09:07 PM

Maybe youre water bottle isnt cool for me, but you are!
Happy belated Valentine's Day, Snowy.

(My earlier post is a little more thoughtful than #15, a little.)

levite · 02-23-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuasiMondo

Sex, okay.
Violence, okay.
Sex + violence, not okay.

I actually think this pretty much sums it up.

I am not particularly a fan of the GTA-style/mow-'em-down 1st Person Shooter games, but I think that the violence, while bad enough, is nonetheless comparatively impersonal and comic-book-y. I wouldn't let my 10-year-old play it (if I had a 10-year-old), but I would probably shrug and sigh if my (hypothetical) 16-year-old was playing it. I tend to believe that, unless played to excess, and/or played too young, violent video games sublimate violent impulses more than they produce them.

But a rape simulator is just sick. It's nothing but a practice session for creating stalking rapists and child molesters. Sexual violence is just not the same as non-sexual violence. It is personal, psychologically destructive, violating, in ways that-- although to some degree all those things are true for non-sexual violence-- non-sexual violence cannot compare.

If I caught my hypothetical 10-year-old playing GTA, I'd give him a mild chewing out and ground them. If I caught him playing a rape simulator, I would give them a very serious talking-to about sexual violence, and arrange for them to meet a rape crisis counselor and a rape victim, to educate him about what sexual violence means.

Cynthetiq · 02-23-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by levite

But a rape simulator is just sick. It's nothing but a practice session for creating stalking rapists and child molesters. Sexual violence is just not the same as non-sexual violence. It is personal, psychologically destructive, violating, in ways that-- although to some degree all those things are true for non-sexual violence-- non-sexual violence cannot compare.

If I caught my hypothetical 10-year-old playing GTA, I'd give him a mild chewing out and ground them. If I caught him playing a rape simulator, I would give them a very serious talking-to about sexual violence, and arrange for them to meet a rape crisis counselor and a rape victim, to educate him about what sexual violence means.

There is no person that is being psychologically destroyed or violated. It is a computer image, avatar, or bits and bytes.

So you'd not discuss and educate your 10 or 16 year old on sexual violence without this simulation coming into your world? Isn't it then a useful device in having you confront the discussion and actually have it with your hypothetical children to discuss the morality and the issues surrounding it? This is the desire of the author in the wired article about torture in World of Warcraft.

levite · 02-23-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

There is no person that is being psychologically destroyed or violated. It is a computer image, avatar, or bits and bytes.

So you'd not discuss and educate your 10 or 16 year old on sexual violence without this simulation coming into your world? Isn't it then a useful device in having you confront the discussion and actually have it with your hypothetical children to discuss the morality and the issues surrounding it? This is the desire of the author in the wired article about torture in World of Warcraft.

Of course I would discuss and educate my children concerning sexual violence without something like this. But rather than doing so shockingly, and at a young age, I would do so gradually, more subtly. I think the best way to prepare a kid for education about proper sexual and relationship mores is to demonstrate loving and courteous relationships, and give them a solid grounding in respecting their friends and neighbors, preparatory to respecting their partners. But that doesn't mean I won't crank up the up-front lessons and shock value if I think my kid is being led down the garden path.

I will do my best to teach my kids about non-sexual violence, and preventing that also, but that's different. The problems most video-game playing kids have today is that they don't clearly understand the boundaries between the videogames and how the real world works: for example, they understand that in the real world, killing is wrong, but they don't get the permanence of death. But this rape game is not fictionalizing the subject, as if, for example, the virtual victims, once engaged in the sex, enjoy their violation. It specifically reproduces the fear and pain reactions of the victims, for the pleasure of the user. It doesn't merely blur the distinction between fantasy and reality, it actually promotes an unhealthy attitude, namely, that it is okay to take pleasure in hurting others, sexually.

Sure, I understand that this is a virtual simulation. But it is clearly geared to preparing someone for the actual act. It acclimates the user to enjoying the suffering of others, it promotes a deeply unhealthy mindset. The fact that the "training victims" are not real, and thus there is no real suffering, is entirely irrelevant when compared to the future victims whose real suffering will be ignored. It's just sick.

Strange Famous · 02-23-2009, 11:39 PM

Yes its a lot worse.

Raping a child is far MORALLY worse than murder

ASU2003 · 02-24-2009, 02:09 AM

Maybe I should start playing video games again. I wasn't aware that this type of game existed.

So if they make a video game where it's going to hookers, being a porn star, banging the easy girl at the bar, prom night, multiple girls, and other scenerios would it be ok? I would rather play that game than killing the same computer AI bot again.

The graphics aren't bad, but need a little work. The plot needs a little toning down too, but I have no problem with a high-res graphic adult videogame.

mixedmedia · 02-24-2009, 04:41 AM

I don't think people need to simulate things to know they are bad or hurtful.

It seems to hearken back to this idea that people who stalk and rape are just like anyone else and are making choices to do so the same way people decide whether they want to make dinner or order pizza. It is a compulsion. And the fear and pain are part of the attraction. You're not going to waylay these impulses you are going to reinforce them if the game is played by someone with the capacity to do it.

The game was created for shock value. Trying to put an educational slant on it is bullshit. Sorry, it just is. If you want to convince me differently, find me a journal article written by a psychologist who makes the claim that simulating brutal violence makes a person more sensitive to actual violence. Not something written by a journalist.

---------- Post added at 07:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------

also, if these games were effectively working to making people more sensitive to the suffering of people at the hands of others...wouldn't they stop playing them?

Baraka_Guru · 02-24-2009, 06:52 AM

Murderous violence simulated as "entertainment" is bad enough.

The simulation of rape and torture (of any kind) crosses that threshold of having gone too far. These are things we need not simulate. The physical and psychological damage they can cause are well-documented. If you knew enough about this, you'd know they aren't fit for a context of entertainment.

Most violent video games use violence as a means to vanquish. This is a reality of our human history, and so we revisit this theme, as we are curious about it, and it is also glorified--and, darkly, we can be entertained by it.

However, to be entertained by a simulation of rape or torture (especially in a realistic representation) would be indicative of some psychological problem and/or a serious moral lapse. The function of violence in these two modes differs greatly from what we see in most games--and the two are somewhat related in a way, and they are quite different from the violence of vanquish and vengeance.

This game is nothing short of deplorable, but I agree--it's meant for shock value.

(As an aside: also realize it was created by a culture that sells used girls' underwear out of vending machines.)

Dammitall · 02-24-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

...also, if these games were effectively working to making people more sensitive to the suffering of people at the hands of others...wouldn't they stop playing them?

Agreed. I don't play video games so I don't speak from firsthand experience, but don't people normally play them because they enjoy the activity, because the simulation of whatever activity they're engaged in stimulates an adrenaline rush? Isn't that how they become addictive?

This makes me feel sick, too.

ring · 02-24-2009, 07:08 AM

It reminds me of some people that are addicted to porn, who become bored with their
entry level porn, and need to up their fix quotient by viewing increasingly more bizarre
forms of it, to reach the same arousal state.

Perhaps the shoot'em up the bad guys/killing aliens...etc,
doesn't satisfy the hunger for violence after awhile,
so it's time for something stronger, more vile.

telekinetic · 02-24-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Yes its a lot worse.

Raping a child is far MORALLY worse than murder

What an odd statement. Are you saying you wish all rapists had killed their victims instead?

Strange Famous · 02-24-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

What an odd statement. Are you saying you wish all rapists had killed their victims instead?

No, but there are many reasons to murder someone (money, rage, hate, gang fight, power, etc)

Rape is ALWAYS a hate crime.

Furthermore the makers of this game, whoever is president of the comy that released it shoud do life.

I am 100% serious.

Any person who purchases this game is a child pornographer and should face the maximum penalty under the laws of their state. Their children should be taken away from them (for their own protection) and they should be added to the sex offender and marked for life as a dangerous pervert.

The programmer of this game and the oublisher should be taken to the haugue and tried for outrages against international law. If Japan will not give them up then international agents should invade the territory of Japan and take them.

This is an utter obscenity, it is a foul thing that is disgusting to all people. It is a humiliation upon Japan the nation and a disgrace upon humanity. There is no defence for this. I repeat - the responsible people should do life, and if Japan will not imprison them we should take them and put them in one of our prisons. Life, and no consideraton of parole for 25 years MINIMUM.

edit
.

.

.

of course, if this whole story is satire - then consider me suckered in by it.

telekinetic · 02-24-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

No, but there are many reasons to murder someone (money, rage, hate, gang fight, power, etc)

Rape is ALWAYS a hate crime.

You don't think rape is ever about power, or rage, or lust? It's always hate?

Under what grounds do you think the publisher should be prosecuted? The grounds that it offends you personally?

If I make a painting of a girl getting raped, should I go to jail? What about if I write a story? Make a comic? Make a movie? Where do you draw the line here for your "jailed because of content of creative work" mandate?

Cynthetiq · 02-24-2009, 12:45 PM

Good points twisted.

This is why I am not sure about how I feel about this. Where is the line drawn? I know the line is drawn on the action itself, but what about parody, simulation, art, writing, film? Why is one medium okay and not another?

Baraka_Guru · 02-24-2009, 12:51 PM

I think it comes down to intent.

There are things such as literature and film that address rape, even graphically, but it can be argued that these are representations for artistic purposes—critique, analysis, etc.

However, in this case, what we have is: "Dude, you're the rapist! Go to it!"

Do we think this is art here?

Cynthetiq · 02-24-2009, 12:56 PM

I think it maybe a fair defense if presented in a court of law. I'm not the one who can think of the implications enough.

How is this different from a Choose Your Own Adventure or POV DVD where you can select your next action?

SabrinaFair · 02-24-2009, 01:06 PM

I can't imagine how anyone could find this game enjoyable--or more accurately, how there would be enough people who would find this game enjoyable to make the product successful. I personally find it repugnant and beyond creepy....but, I'm nervous about banning speech or expression in the absence of direct threats or true victims. My only hope is is that some would-be rapist can get his jollies playing a game like this and decides not to look for a real victim.

Halx · 02-24-2009, 01:23 PM

Rape is a central theme in pretty much 60-70% of all Japanese hentai games. Funny that they single this one out. There are literally hundreds of games released every year that focus on or feature rape. http://www.getchu.com/

Don't blame the game, blame the market.

Strange Famous · 02-24-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

You don't think rape is ever about power, or rage, or lust? It's always hate?

Under what grounds do you think the publisher should be prosecuted? The grounds that it offends you personally?

If I make a painting of a girl getting raped, should I go to jail? What about if I write a story? Make a comic? Make a movie? Where do you draw the line here for your "jailed because of content of creative work" mandate?

On the grounds of incitement and obscenity.

SSJTWIZTA · 02-24-2009, 02:25 PM

*sigh* murder may kill the person, but it doesn't leave them emotionally scared for life, terrified of most everyone.

shit sickens me.

mixedmedia · 02-24-2009, 03:02 PM

Just for the record, I don't purport that anyone who creates, purchases or plays these games should be arrested.

I do purport that they are assholes. And unfortunately that is still perfectly legal.

How many people here are old enough to remember the MA gang rape that inspired the Jodie Foster movie The Accused? I remember it very vividly. I was 18 years old and I don't remember anyone having to actually see the rape to be horrified by it.

ametc · 02-24-2009, 03:23 PM

I think capping people in the head is a lot better than raping them. That totally came out wrong. But, in a game, kids know death is a fact of life and because of that killing someone seems less harmful than raping someone. Rape can do more damage in the long run than murder, and though both are horrible things to begin with, murder is the lesser of the two evils imo.

I would rather murder a bad guy than rape them. Rape involves much more complex feelings against a person than murder and I don't want to teach my child those sort of complex feelings. I'd rather have him learn to shoot a duck than rape one.

I don't think this post is going to end up sounding right. >_<

Cynthetiq · 02-24-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Just for the record, I don't purport that anyone who creates, purchases or plays these games should be arrested.

I do purport that they are assholes. And unfortunately that is still perfectly legal.

How many people here are old enough to remember the MA gang rape that inspired the Jodie Foster movie The Accused? I remember it very vividly. I was 18 years old and I don't remember anyone having to actually see the rape to be horrified by it.

It interesting you bring that movie up. It came out when I was living in Singapore and the censor board removed the complete rape scene. As they interviewed people about the movie, they concluded that Jodie Foster's character deserved to be raped based on the way she was acting. Once I got back to the US and watched the original cut of the movie it was apparent at how brutal the rape was and how abhorrent it made the viewers feel when it was in the theaters.

ASU2003 · 02-24-2009, 04:24 PM

Has anyone looked into the rape crime rate in Japan? Has any Japanese rapists been interviewed to see if they had played this game? Or is there a whole other type of person who plays this game versus actually commits the crime in real life?

Is there anyway to modify the game to show (possible) rapists the harm they would cause and the impact on the victims life and their life?

I'm not seeing how this video game is that different from watching a simulated rape video instead of playing the game? There are plenty of those videos on-line.

02-23-2009, 05:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I think it's disgusting and repulsive and I think most of the other video games where the major theme is thrill-crime brutality are disgusting and repulsive, as well. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

02-23-2009, 06:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	Do you rape zombie mutant women in this game? If you fail to meet your alotted rape quota in the set time do they rape you? Ick. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life Last edited by fresnelly; 02-23-2009 at 06:37 PM..

02-23-2009, 06:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	This stuff makes me sick. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

02-23-2009, 07:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
aberkok “Wrong is right.” Location: toronto	I think it's a consent thing and a procedure thing. Take most shooters/FPS. There is an understanding between the protagonist and the antagonist(s) that you are there to fight and shoot at each other. Even when you mow down hundreds, often they are the bad guys. It's also very easy for an in-game shooting to be very impersonal. You can kill someone from hundreds of meters away in a first-person perspective sometimes. Now say they are not the bad guys, like in Grand Theft Auto. You usually don't spend too long on them. Typically you'll shoot them fast or run them over quickly. I suppose you could if you wanted to, but you are not rewarded for this in the game as you are in Rapeplay. Also it sounds like the level of detail in the rapes is very high. This discussion could be likened to whether a Vietnam vet is as bad of a person as a serial rapist. Conventional morality would say he is not. __________________ !check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

02-23-2009, 08:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	I believe the violence of rape might be different than that in war. Rape is often meted out as punishment, ownership of another human being, debasing etc. Rape is a war crime. Rape is not perpetrated with the same intentions as most wars. Think of your wife being raped, or think of yourself alone in a subway car being raped in the ass by thugs and beaten up. Think of them telling you they were going after your wife and children next. Think of this happening on just a regular work day, in your city, while you were minding your own business. Both war and rape are violence perpetrated against other humans. Both are horrific. One seems like it might be worse because it could take thousands or millions of lives. However, the other ruins lives in a different way, and both beget more violence. __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata Last edited by girldetective; 02-23-2009 at 08:24 PM.. Reason: more stuff

02-23-2009, 05:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	I tend to agree with you Cyn. There's really nothing about rape that is any worse than being a serial killer, yet GTA isn't pulled from (many) shelves. They're both examples of video games letting people indulge in the most base of fantasies. Whether it's actually harmful or not is, I think, open to debate. Yes, you get the occasional kid who shoots up a school and immediately gets the latest shooter video game in trouble because of it. But if an adult plays the rape game, does it follow that he will then go out and rape some woman? What do you guys think. Personally, I think not. After all, I've played Deus Ex, but you don't see me shooting poisoned crossbow darts at people.

02-23-2009, 06:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	No, not to me it ain't..... this is worse than well.... everything I've seen so far. It's rape....

02-23-2009, 06:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Because we're all full of shit. edit: You're all full of shit. I just pretend to be so you don't beat me up.

02-23-2009, 07:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
blktour Psycho Location: Anchorage, AK	I would like to try the game just to see what it was about, but even then, i just feel weird typing that. haha.

02-23-2009, 08:45 PM	#13 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	I find interesting the differences between these responses and the ones in this thread. Is rape bad only when there are no tentacles involved? __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

02-23-2009, 08:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Since we've thoroughly played out all of the 31 Flavors of Shock in this era... only rape and torture are left for mass consumption. ... Great excesses. "When we sin, we sin real good." Anybody else smell the end of the Roman empire? __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 02-23-2009 at 08:52 PM..

02-23-2009, 08:52 PM	#15 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	I dont believe simulating violence leads to a more humane populace. On the other hand I dont really think we need the insipid Hello Kitty junk either. Why bother? Neither are cool. __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata Last edited by girldetective; 02-23-2009 at 08:56 PM..

02-23-2009, 09:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	Maybe youre water bottle isnt cool for me, but you are! Happy belated Valentine's Day, Snowy. (My earlier post is a little more thoughtful than #15, a little.) __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

02-23-2009, 11:39 PM	#21 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Yes its a lot worse. Raping a child is far MORALLY worse than murder __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

02-24-2009, 02:09 AM	#22 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	Maybe I should start playing video games again. I wasn't aware that this type of game existed. So if they make a video game where it's going to hookers, being a porn star, banging the easy girl at the bar, prom night, multiple girls, and other scenerios would it be ok? I would rather play that game than killing the same computer AI bot again. The graphics aren't bad, but need a little work. The plot needs a little toning down too, but I have no problem with a high-res graphic adult videogame.

02-24-2009, 04:41 AM	#23 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I don't think people need to simulate things to know they are bad or hurtful. It seems to hearken back to this idea that people who stalk and rape are just like anyone else and are making choices to do so the same way people decide whether they want to make dinner or order pizza. It is a compulsion. And the fear and pain are part of the attraction. You're not going to waylay these impulses you are going to reinforce them if the game is played by someone with the capacity to do it. The game was created for shock value. Trying to put an educational slant on it is bullshit. Sorry, it just is. If you want to convince me differently, find me a journal article written by a psychologist who makes the claim that simulating brutal violence makes a person more sensitive to actual violence. Not something written by a journalist. ---------- Post added at 07:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ---------- also, if these games were effectively working to making people more sensitive to the suffering of people at the hands of others...wouldn't they stop playing them? __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

02-24-2009, 06:52 AM	#24 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Murderous violence simulated as "entertainment" is bad enough. The simulation of rape and torture (of any kind) crosses that threshold of having gone too far. These are things we need not simulate. The physical and psychological damage they can cause are well-documented. If you knew enough about this, you'd know they aren't fit for a context of entertainment. Most violent video games use violence as a means to vanquish. This is a reality of our human history, and so we revisit this theme, as we are curious about it, and it is also glorified--and, darkly, we can be entertained by it. However, to be entertained by a simulation of rape or torture (especially in a realistic representation) would be indicative of some psychological problem and/or a serious moral lapse. The function of violence in these two modes differs greatly from what we see in most games--and the two are somewhat related in a way, and they are quite different from the violence of vanquish and vengeance. This game is nothing short of deplorable, but I agree--it's meant for shock value. (As an aside: also realize it was created by a culture that sells used girls' underwear out of vending machines.) __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 02-24-2009 at 06:55 AM..

02-24-2009, 07:08 AM	#26 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	It reminds me of some people that are addicted to porn, who become bored with their entry level porn, and need to up their fix quotient by viewing increasingly more bizarre forms of it, to reach the same arousal state. Perhaps the shoot'em up the bad guys/killing aliens...etc, doesn't satisfy the hunger for violence after awhile, so it's time for something stronger, more vile.

02-24-2009, 12:45 PM	#30 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Good points twisted. This is why I am not sure about how I feel about this. Where is the line drawn? I know the line is drawn on the action itself, but what about parody, simulation, art, writing, film? Why is one medium okay and not another? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

02-24-2009, 12:51 PM	#31 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	I think it comes down to intent. There are things such as literature and film that address rape, even graphically, but it can be argued that these are representations for artistic purposes—critique, analysis, etc. However, in this case, what we have is: "Dude, you're the rapist! Go to it!" Do we think this is art here? __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

02-24-2009, 12:56 PM	#32 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I think it maybe a fair defense if presented in a court of law. I'm not the one who can think of the implications enough. How is this different from a Choose Your Own Adventure or POV DVD where you can select your next action? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

02-24-2009, 01:06 PM	#33 (permalink)
SabrinaFair Junkie Location: Louisville, KY	I can't imagine how anyone could find this game enjoyable--or more accurately, how there would be enough people who would find this game enjoyable to make the product successful. I personally find it repugnant and beyond creepy....but, I'm nervous about banning speech or expression in the absence of direct threats or true victims. My only hope is is that some would-be rapist can get his jollies playing a game like this and decides not to look for a real victim. __________________ "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy." -Desiderata

02-24-2009, 01:23 PM	#34 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Rape is a central theme in pretty much 60-70% of all Japanese hentai games. Funny that they single this one out. There are literally hundreds of games released every year that focus on or feature rape. http://www.getchu.com/ Don't blame the game, blame the market. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals] Last edited by Halx; 02-24-2009 at 01:26 PM..

02-24-2009, 02:25 PM	#36 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	sigh murder may kill the person, but it doesn't leave them emotionally scared for life, terrified of most everyone. shit sickens me. __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller

02-24-2009, 03:02 PM	#37 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	Just for the record, I don't purport that anyone who creates, purchases or plays these games should be arrested. I do purport that they are assholes. And unfortunately that is still perfectly legal. How many people here are old enough to remember the MA gang rape that inspired the Jodie Foster movie The Accused? I remember it very vividly. I was 18 years old and I don't remember anyone having to actually see the rape to be horrified by it. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

02-24-2009, 03:23 PM	#38 (permalink)
ametc Psycho	I think capping people in the head is a lot better than raping them. That totally came out wrong. But, in a game, kids know death is a fact of life and because of that killing someone seems less harmful than raping someone. Rape can do more damage in the long run than murder, and though both are horrible things to begin with, murder is the lesser of the two evils imo. I would rather murder a bad guy than rape them. Rape involves much more complex feelings against a person than murder and I don't want to teach my child those sort of complex feelings. I'd rather have him learn to shoot a duck than rape one. I don't think this post is going to end up sounding right. >_<

02-24-2009, 04:24 PM	#40 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	Has anyone looked into the rape crime rate in Japan? Has any Japanese rapists been interviewed to see if they had played this game? Or is there a whole other type of person who plays this game versus actually commits the crime in real life? Is there anyway to modify the game to show (possible) rapists the harm they would cause and the impact on the victims life and their life? I'm not seeing how this video game is that different from watching a simulated rape video instead of playing the game? There are plenty of those videos on-line.