mixedmedia

Well, I think you are dealing with a cultural difference there and it wouldn't have made any difference if the moviegoers in Singapore saw the rape or not.

But what I am referring to is the real rape that occurred 5 or 6 years before the movie came out. It was huge news and was only recounted in a very limited fashion in newspapers and television news shows. I remember talking to people about it and how disturbing it was even though we didn't see pictures of it happening or even many details about the actual rape itself. Therefore, I don't believe that people are incapable of understanding the effect that violence and brutality have on others without seeing it.

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telekinetic

OK, so where in my progression do you draw the 'prosecution on grounds of obscenity' line? A description? A drawing? A graphic novel? An animated movie? You obviously draw it somewhere before 'video game,' I'm just trying to explore where, and why.

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twisted no more

Cynthetiq

I don't believe that the case, watch it again, and pay mind the fact that all of the rape and sex scenes were removed. Singaporeans found rape to be abhorrent as a crime since many maids and nannies are raped there.

I doubt that, but again, most of the times, the mind works to fill in the blanks and it is usually more exciting/titillating when there is less to see, read, or know. I know you're not eluding to the idea that culturally Singaporeans find rape "acceptable" in any fashion, deserved or not whereas Japanese seem to deem it okay in certain manners.

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mixedmedia

Well, no I don't mean to allude that Singaporeans find rape to be acceptable, no. But I cannot imagine any scenario in which a woman would deserve to be raped so I attributed it, I suppose, to an ignorance of their mores concerning women and modesty.

And I don't know that it is the Japanese deem rape to be okay, obviously they deem simulations of it to be okay and that I disagree with. But like I said, I certainly don't think it should be illegal nor do I have a particular penchant for banning such things. Rather, I wish people wouldn't want to play them.

I took exception to what I saw as an attempt to rationalize the presence of these themes in video games as being educational. I do not think they are educational and will refer back to my previous statement that if simulated behaviors like these acted upon people in that manner, then people wouldn't be playing them. And I have a distaste, in general, for the furtherance of the exploitation of cruelty and brutality that has been marching steadily forth since the release of the first Faces of Death videos...I've had this discussion around here before, I think. But I think it is absolutely related...and slowly working its way into the mainstream of entertainment. It bothers me, that's all. I see no good coming of it as I think, paradoxically, it distances people from suffering rather than making them closer to it.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

inBOIL

I think there's some degree of understanding that eludes a mere discription of brutality, inasmuch as witnessing a violent act firsthand is a very different experience than reading an account in the newspaper. I think that depictions of such brutality have the potential to bridge that gap (the depiction falling somewhere in between).

I'm curious to know how people would compare this game to a rape fantasy. Is going through such a scenario in your head, or acting one out with your partner, comparable to playing a rapist in a video game?

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mixedmedia

Well, of course, witnessing brutality first hand is a different experience. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it isn't necessary to witness it to understand it. And it's certainly not necessary to witness it as entertainment.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Strange Famous

The question isnt the medium, it is the content which determines the nature of the offense. This disgusting game is encouraging perverts to fantasize and role play rape and torture of women and children. It is foul, indecent, inhuman, and abhorent. I repeat, the US waste their time arresting any guy with a shaven head and a big beard they can find in Afghanistan - they should deploy their military strength to arrest and imprison the deviants who produced this game. This would do more good for humanity.

Furthermore, any UK citizen who purchased this game should do five years. Cat 1 prison as well, no parole, and life on the sex offender's register. If they are a foriegn national they should be deported after their sentence has been served.

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Cynthetiq

So it's okay and cool with you to wank to the many online videos of simulated rape porn...

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Strange Famous

pornography simulating rape is illegal in my country and I hope it would be in any civilised state.

Anyone committing this crime (viewing this filth) should face the appropriate penalties. If anyone is producing such things in the UK then the book should be thrown at them. Life, and no chance of parole for 10 years, 3 to a cell in a Cat 1 prison.

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Cynthetiq

and that's why there are different countries in the world.. with different cultures and viewpoints...

since well, the UK doesn't lord over very much any longer.

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cdwonderful

it surprises me that you were the first to bring that up. Admittedly a lot of them deal with demons raping mortals, which doesn't seem to make it so bad. To which I must bitch slap myself for even thinking that .........

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it wastes your time,
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Strange Famous

There are however basic human standards of decency which all civilised nations support and must inforce to protect the innocent of corrupt states.

We intervened in Bosnia to stop innocents being killed, in Rwanda: we didnt stand back and say "well, its a matter for them" - the woman and children of Japan deserve protection. First pressure should be bought upon their government, but if the state utterly fails to protect its own citizens from rape and other dispicable crimes then the state has failed and must be replaced.

In fact, I would be shocked if this kind of thing isnt illegal in Japan - I am still fairly sure now that this whole thing is a piece of satire poking fun at the image of games like GTA... it is simply too disgusting to be true.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Cynthetiq

Well the UK did a crappy job when they had the middle east since well you know those honor killings are still going on.

So while you can take pride in Bosnia and Rwanda, the Crown has done nothing for what it was responsible for when it had it in respect to your women and children protection.

Again, this is SIMULATION, there is no human being being hurt here. There isn't even a real human being doing the act.

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Baraka_Guru

http://www.illusion.jp/preview/rapelay/img/package.jpg (NSFW)

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Halx

Apparently my misdirect failed.

I wanted SOMEONE to approach this argument with the knowledge that there is an entire subsection of the game industry that relies on PEOPLE buying games that feature rape. We're not talking about one game, we're talking about a SHITLOAD of games produced every year for the past decade that feature rape (presented as a sexual stimulus) and a market that only encourages more.

Everyone's busy weighing how bad rape is, but this is a cultural phenomenon. It doesn't matter how bad it is. A lot of people buy these games. What does this say? Millions of people are fucked up? Or does it say something else...?

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cdwonderful

went there all i got was something saying they only sell domestically

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Never try to teach a pig to whistle
it wastes your time,
and annoys the pig.....

hunnychile

...And so the de-evolution of man continues.

How very sad and terribly sick.

Rape isn't a game in any form.

Either is murder. These games are the reason 11 year old kids can find guns and kill adults sleeping in their beds.

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Baraka_Guru

NationMaster - Rapes (per capita) (most recent) by country

I wonder if these stats are accurate.

Japan is way down the list.


* * * * * *

And, Hal, I don't know enough about Japanese culture to comment much on what you want to know. All I know is that Japan seems to have a culture of sex that differs greatly from ours. The sexualization of youth goes even further there.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cynthetiq

but if that was the case, then Japan surely would have high murder and rape rates, yet it doesn't.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

mixedmedia

I think it probably says a lot of things. For instance:

Are millions of people fucked up?
I think that's safe to say. Yes, millions of people of are fucked up - not all of them with ready access to these games.

Is everyone playing these games fucked up?
No.

Does the fact that not everyone playing them is fucked up mean anything significant to the argument that the games are psychologically questionable at best?
No, it doesn't.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

The Fluffy One

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Strange Famous

The making of such games is an INTERNATIONAL crime

The purchase of such games is an INTERNATIONAL crime

The way to resolve this disgraceful situation is to enforce the law

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

The Fluffy One

I don't think it's international crime, considering the japanese made it and was originally from there. Selling it to America is possibly YES, but that doesn't make sense either, how come they allow manga (japanese comic books) with rape in them sold in the U.S? Furthermore, how come they are allowed to have games were you can kill hookers and have sex with them in the U.S?

Personally I say, let people buy it, just don't make such a fuss about it, it's like anything else, it's just a game, that's it, not a big deal at all. If it involved REAL PEOPLE GETTING RAPE... that's completely different.

But there animated people, made with a tablet and japanese perverts, not real blood, sweat, and tears of real women being raped. For the most part people have judgement on what is right and wrong, even playing that game if they do.

That's just my opinion.

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Cynosure

Maybe so. But consider this quote from The Unforgiven...

ASU2003

Do people that play violent video games get tired of being able to easily kill the computer player? They get bored with the game eventually, don't they?

I'm wondering if the same thing would eventually apply to these types of games? Would the rape fetish be a phase that they go through?

I used to have a fetish of being with 3 to 5 girls at the same time, but imagining the entire scenerio instead of just the good parts made me get over it. I'm wondering how much realism there is in this game? Would losing at this game make guys realize the negative aspects? Could guys get bored with this since they always win (or always lose)?

There are actually quite a few adult games from Japan out there. I never knew they existed until now.

Willravel

Psst, Fuffy, yellow is generally reserved for official moderator comments. Just fyi.

Regarding the topic, it's not my place to determine what is or isn't in video games I don't buy. Sure, require parental permission for all games given a specifically serious adult rating, but that's it. If I don't have a right to say that Super Smash Bros. raped my childhood and should have never been made, then no one else has a right to determine that a sexually violent game shouldn't even be available. That said, Amazon has a right to determine what they do or don't sell. It would be wrong to disallow the game from being made, it's okay for suppliers to refuse to sell the game.

biznatch

Um, please back that up. I am sick and tired of videogames being demonized, with no serious research proving that they are at all a cause of increased violence. There has been no proof of violent behaviour being induced by violent games.
Yes, some people with violent tendencies play violent video games, but it's not why they're violent.
Now, if Baraka's figures are accurate, and assuming that Japan is a nation with the highest (or one of the highest) presence of rape in their entertainment media (anime, manga, video games), if we go by your logic, why is Japan so low on that list?

Here's why: video games, or books with controversial topics, or rock and roll, will not make your kids worship the devil, poison your pets, set his house on fire or shoot his dad with a gun.

And this: "These games are the reason 11 year old kids can find guns and kill adults sleeping in their beds."
I see this type of sentence all the time. There's two things wrong with it. One: A videogame will not teach your son how to find a hidden weapon, maybe unlock it, manipulate it, load it, remove the safety, aim it, all the while parents are sleeping right there. And if you notice that I mentioned unlocking, manipulating, loading(for most people), this is called responsible gun ownership. If you have a killing instrument AND children in the house, you need it stored safely, not out where your 11 year old can pick it up and start blazing Matrix style. What's next, lighters in your baby's crib??
The second thing, obviously, is parenting. Don't blame a video game, or TV, or whatever else for teaching your children the wrong things. If you look at games that involve killing, you'll notice an "M for Mature" on the box. Any responsible parent who wants to keep a responsible eye on what their 11 year old plays can look at the ESRB rating before buying it for their child, and keep an eye on their video game library, in case some dumb employee at Gamestop decided it was ok to sell GTA to an 11 yr old.

I don't think parents are responsible for everything or should be, but they ARE able to monitor what kind of media their child watches, and if it's appropriate. If they can't, they need to get help.

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Terrell

I don't have a problem with this particular game being bought sold or played, but I do think that it should have an ESRB rating of AO. Since the things that occur in video games are fantasy, rather than reality I don't really see any harm in adults engaging in such games. As to children it's the responsibility of the parents to oversee what their children are allowed to play or download.

It should not be banned for adult use simply because children may attempt to obtain said game or play said game. I don't; however, have a problem with Amazon not carrying the game, as a business decision, but I would strongly oppose any governmental prevention of the sale and distribution of said game to adults.

I think that most adults can distinguish fantasy from reality, so I don't think we should be in the business of prohibiting video games, as far as adult use is concerned, based on social noms, or what we find to be offensive. If a person commits an actual crime (I'm thinking in terms of unlawful force, fraud, & theft in all it's forms against another person), then punish them for said crimes committed in accordinance with local/state/federal laws, but don't ban things simply because they're offensive to social norms (absent someone being victimized by such behaviour in and of itself).

777

Oh no! Not another video game that features {insert naughty, sinful things here}! Think of the children!

Well, they're not thinking of the children, since this game isn't for them. Over half of the people who play video games are older than 33 years of age. What's the best part about have a target audience that old? They have their own money to buy video games. Kids only get a game on Christmas and Brithdays from their parents.

Besides, video games are just form of media, such as tv shows, movies, books, and comics. Should Moi Lolita be banned from book stores and libraries since it's about a grown man lusting after a girl who's a minor? And what about The Tragety of Romeo and Juliet? Juliet was only fourteen when the story starts out. How old was Romeo?

Now I'm not throwing our rape game up there with classic lit., that game should be classified with the rest of the rape porn out there. And it's from Japan of all places. They have a myth where the fisherman's wife was raped by sea creatures.

Every country and culture handles their smut differently. In Japan, alot of porn is animated, since that form of media is more accepted than live action, according to my otaku friends. And despite Japan's low crime rate, rape porn is very popular. In the US, the crime rate is much higher. Even Michael Moore's documentry, Bowling for Columbine, couldn't find the answer to US' high crime rate. So protecting our children from violent or sexual media isn't the answer to prevent them from commiting violent crimes when they're older.

Regarding the rape game mentioned here, it might not even be legal to own or view in the US, since there's a law against fictional depictions of minors in sexual acts. There is no such law in Japan, since their age of consent is lower than 18 years of age.

File:Age of Consent.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Roger Zelazny

Strange Famous

This is not just "naughtiness" - it is utter filth, and the interests of nobody are served by its production.

I am not in favour of banning pornography, but this is a pornographic representation of the rape of a child...

It is unbelievable to me that this kind of paedophilia (the rape and torture of the "virgin schoolgirl" daughters) is defended as "free expression" or a bit "naughty" by any sane person.

If this was sold on amazon then the authorities must go to them with a warrant and take down the details of every pervert who bought it and make sure each one of them does 5 years. Even if we say we cannot prosecute the criminals who made the game because they are protected by Japanese corruption (an argument I do not accept) any citizen of the UK who bought this game should be charged as a child pornographer. I would hope that the American public would adopt the same attitude towards any paedophiles and users of child pornography in the US.

It is very important to understand and state again - that as disgusting as this "game" would be if only involving adults, it also encourages the pervert to act out the rape of children.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

biznatch

Actually, I'm pretty sure this game is not illegal, even though it features children and rape. "Child porn" is porn made with real children.
This is not. It doesn't harm children. Yes, it's sick, but I don't believe it to be illegal.

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wayneferrell479

Wow. It makes me question a few things. Its weird how we dont mind blowing up things and gunning down hundreds of innocents on a video game. But somehow this is different. I wouldn't go for this sort of thing. It just seems sick.

Strange Famous

Wayne,

Yes, paedophilia and child pornography are different to the representation of violence, gun play, murder, etc.

A war film in which people are shot is different to disgusting child pornography.

Playing the part of a gangster shooting people in GTA is different to playing the part of a child rapist in this revolting "game".

I dont personally find that differentation "weird" or see any level of hypocrisy in it.



Biznatch,

Thats a view that the courts will need to take. It is very clearly in the public interest that the law enforcment agencies of the UK and USA (and any other country in which Amazon sold this game) get a Warrant and go to Amazon and get the names of everyone who bought this game. They should be arrested in very public way and questioned and investigated very strongly, and if there is a case they should answer it in a court of law. I think we also would accept that the kind of person who buys this "game" is far more likely to be involved in other offences in this area than a normal person.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

mixedmedia

How can someone be arrested for something that there is no law against? You do realize there is no law against it? Or are you advocating the implementation of law on a whim?

I think these games are disgusting, too, but you're not being realistic. At all.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Strange Famous

I believe this can be defined as child pornography, and purchasing that is against the law in the US and UK

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

mixedmedia

I don't think it can be defined as child pornography, though. Please correct me if I am wrong, but there are not laws against drawn images of child pornography are there?

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Strange Famous

I'm not an expert on it, but there certainly should be. I would be amazed if it wasnt against the law.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas