Do you still fax? ever? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 01-09-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

View: Burning Question: Why Are Faxes Still Around?
Source: Wired
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Burning Question: Why Are Faxes Still Around?
Burning Question: Why Are Faxes Still Around?
By Eric Hagerman Email 12.22.08
Illustration: Siggi Eggertsson
Start
Previous: Steven Levy on His Gadget Wish List for 2009

Who hasn't put a perfectly good fax machine on the curb? In those hasty moments of purging, you think, "I don't need this dinosaur. Who faxes anymore?" Hope it wasn't a really nice one you junked, because someday you'll wish you had it back. The facsimile isn't going anywhere.

Patented in 1843 and mainstreamed sometime between the 8-track and the CD, the technology is like a B-movie zombie that keeps lurching forward—clumsily, relentlessly—long after it should be in the ground.

Fax machines are everywhere: doctors' offices, delicatessens, brokerage firms, even souvenir shops in the developing world (for verifying tourists' credit cards).

The device's particular skill is well known: It makes a replica of a document appear in another location in seconds. When machines dropped in price in the late '80s, their closest competitor was hand delivery—not a tenable solution for people trading paper over long distances. Soon, courts gave the tech a crucial blessing by certifying that a facsimile of a signature was legally valid. By 1990, faxes were the way to take care of everything, from securing a mortgage to ordering a ham on rye.

The fax's real rival today is the PDF—essentially the same idea, but with far more complex hardware. But even with the prevalence of email, the number of people who can send and receive faxes is still increasing. According to market research firm Gartner, sales of stand-alone fax machines may have plummeted, but sales of multifunction printers—which also copy, scan, and, yes, fax—increased 340 percent from 2001 to 2007.

Although the fax function of millions of those machines is all but ignored, it can be a lifesaver in an emergency. Say you break down on some lonesome road in Pennsyltucky and call your insurance company for roadside assistance. Progressive will probably fax an authorization to the tow company—not drop Joe the Wrecker an IM. Why not just email him? They might not have his address, and he might not be able—or inclined—to open a PDF. But he almost certainly has a fax number, it's probably listed, and his machine can receive a transmission from any source—a brand-new multitasking office bot or a 25-year-old thermal-paper fountain. This universal utility is the technology's competitive edge. Faxing is easy. "It's a self-contained appliance, and that's a lesson to us as information technologists," says Ken Anderson of market research firm Burton Group. In other words, it's still the most elegant solution.

I still use a fax machine. I prefer to use PDFs, they are much clearer and more legible usually.

But faxing, I sometimes just don't have a choice to send a fax. Everyone has faxes, but not everyone has IM, PDFs, SMS, and other communication methods.

When I did my mortgage, I was able to scan the entire tome and send the PDF electronically. To the escrow company, I was also able to do the same thing. Even when I dealt with my property manager, I still had the ability to send a PDF.

But to get something for my doctor????? I had to send a fax, just a few months ago.

Do you still fax? When was the last time?

Strange Famous · 01-09-2009, 09:30 AM

I still have a fax in my office. A lot of the people I deal with at work (mostly service stations) dont have PC's or access to email.

PonyPotato · 01-09-2009, 09:45 AM

I sent 4 faxes yesterday for work.

We have one invoice that can't just be sent as a pdf - it has to be sent via fax as well to the financial center to be certified. I also have to fax written requests for records to the bank, etc. because they don't always accept them via email.

Baraka_Guru · 01-09-2009, 09:46 AM

Our office got rid of our fax machine/line a few months ago. Up to 99% of what we were receiving was spam (junk faxes?). (I'm not exaggerating.)

Everything was fine until recently when a magazine editor wanted permission to reprint from one of our books. He asked if I would fax him an agreement. I told him we didn't have a fax machine (or should I have said "a facsimile machine"?) and I just emailed him an agreement. That could have been the whole deal right there, but apparently he needed (wanted?) something signed (you know, with an actual pen), so he couriered a printout of the email I sent him with a line he drew on the bottom for me to sign.

I rolled my eyes and signed it, and then proceeded to scan it into a PDF and emailed it back to him.

A few days later, he left a phone message stating that he had yet to receive the signed agreement and would like to get it soon because the magazine was already issued.

I gave up any hope at this point, so I just snail-mailed it back to him, essentially wasting an envelope and a stamp.

I feel bad, but I couldn't help visualizing him as a dinosaur...who likes to eat snails.

To me, fax is dead.

biznatch · 01-09-2009, 10:39 AM

I believe faxes should be considered deprecated, obsolete, and in general not used anymore. They're slow, noisy, jam often, the toner is expensive, and the quality is terrible.

JamesB · 01-09-2009, 10:41 AM

I HATE having to fax ANYTHING. I still have to fax in some forms for work - since they want a "signature" on some forms. I told them I can do the exact same thing in electronic format - change is scary!

Halx · 01-09-2009, 10:48 AM

Our office uses a fax machine, but our fax number is provided by eFax. When we get a fax, it gets emailed to everyone in PDF format instead of having to collect the hard copy.

fresnelly · 01-09-2009, 10:50 AM

When we bought our house I was away in Florida so the agent faxed me the paperwork to sign and fax back. I hope hotels don't throw out their business centre machines so quickly.

At work I get faxes from shipping brokers. They seem pretty tied to the technology.

I saw an old Charlie Chan serial from the 30's or 40's where the police used a sort of fax machine to send a sketch of the suspect to another precinct. They basically stopped the action of the story to give a demonstration because it must have been so astonishing at the time; not unlike how tech thrillers today showcase satellite and gps tracking and whatnot.

I wonder who's still using typewriters?

Esoteric · 01-09-2009, 11:06 AM

I use the fax machine here at work at least once a day, if not more.

THGL · 01-09-2009, 11:10 AM

I just used the fax machine yesterday (dentist faxed me a copy of my receipt then I faxed it to my ins. company for verification). The PCs in the office can fax from the desktop, but the new server doesn't like Macs so I have to use the real machine.

I've got a fax number at home, too. $9.99/mo. from Vonage and it's plugged directly to my Mac at home (fax software is built in).

Until the entire world is online, I say the fax still has viability.

Oh, and my father still uses a manual typewriter when he needs to send a business letter out (he's mostly retired).

snowy · 01-09-2009, 12:11 PM

I have used fax machines mostly for financial correspondence--my student loan company is a fan of receiving them, apparently. Any time something on my payment plan changes, there is a fax to be sent. My choices are to fax it or snail mail it, but faxing is faster.

BadNick · 01-09-2009, 12:18 PM

I can still fax from work. But instead of an "old school" fax machine which we got rid of a couple years ago, our current multi-purpose copy machines can copy, fax, scan, email, etc....so I can put any document in there and send it as a fax or email or whatever else is technically possible now adays.

Secondly, of course I can email anything...but I can also fax directly from my PC, and I can also receive a fax directly into my PC. A specific fax number is unique to my PC and anyone can have such a feature since it's very common and not costly.

Thirdly, I can "print to pdf" with free software that works great and is highly reliable. So any document that I have can be converted to a PDF and either emailed or faxed to whomever needs such stuff without me having to do anything other than hitting the "print" option on my PC.

So other than using the old school word "FAX", I don't really see any problem doing any of this.

inBOIL · 01-09-2009, 12:21 PM

The IRS often requires a hard copy of documents, which a fax will satisfy. A printed-out pdf is essentially the same thing as a recieved fax, but since I value my sanity, I've never tried to argue that with any bureaucrat.

SabrinaFair · 01-09-2009, 12:45 PM

I still use them for work--I find the legal profession at large to be rather slow-moving to embrace new technology, and I live in Kentucky. (which I adore, but wouldn't call the most tech savvy state in the union)

yournamehere · 01-09-2009, 01:33 PM

I've had to fax four things in the past month; twice to Unemployment, once to get an official college transcript, and once to get a refund for out-of-pocket Rx expenses to my health insurance company.

Since I threw away our fax machine in 2005, I've had to drive a half-mile and pay $1.50 each time.

Fotzlid · 01-09-2009, 01:40 PM

I use them at work as well. Patients charts are still in paper form as a lot of facilities haven't gone to electronic files yet.

Lucifer · 01-09-2009, 01:46 PM

On our ship, we use the fax machine constantly. The internet just isn't as reliable, as our satellite phone system. When I'm at work, I fax at least once per shift, sometimes more. Security lists, customs forms, bills of lading, food orders, we send a lot of paperwork over the fax machine.

pig · 01-09-2009, 02:44 PM

I work for the government, so yes - I fax. Not all the time, but enough that I wouldn't get rid of it. Our technology is either cutting edge, or else it's just barely out of the bronze age. Nice eclectic mix.

Daniel_ · 01-09-2009, 02:51 PM

We receive faxed orders all the time, but don't send many.

Strange Famous · 01-09-2009, 03:27 PM

I set up our fax line to create PDF's and send them to an inbox a year ago, and people kept losing inbound faxes that way... so we patched the number back to a physical fax machine.

And I do still deal with some suppliers who wont accept an email Purchase Order and insist on a faxed one with a signature. Also, a need at least several times a week to get signed proof of purchase of a credit card transaction. Its all well and good talking of "dinosaurs" etc, but if you want to get a copy signed receipt from a fillng station I'd wish you the best of luck telling the merchant to scan it and send you a PDF... and you'd end up crediting the transaction. In the UK, bank cards are chipped and PIN approved, but all fuel cards are still mag stripe and signature approved. We deal with stations in the wilds of Scotland and West or Ireland who dont have an EPOS at ALL and still use a click clack machine and send in manual slips for every card transaction!

KarrB · 01-09-2009, 07:14 PM

I use every form of communication possible depending upon what's working at the time. If the PC is down, then phone is used for faxes. The entire world is not completely virtual yet. I had an attorney once tell me he didn't know how to use a pdf and had to wait until his secretary came in to send me a file.... daaaaaa

dlish · 01-09-2009, 07:27 PM

i deal with a lot of construction contracts and most contracts mention that the preferred method of communication is either hand delivery or fax.

email is not considered a legal form of communication under many contracts and will not be considered if there is a dispute. its stupid i know.

murp0434 · 01-09-2009, 08:15 PM

I HATE FAX MACHINES!!!! GAH!!!

ps funny story i was at work and i noticed a fax coming in. As it was printing out, the phone rang. The girl on the other end, who works in a branch in another part of the state, was panicked. Hey, she asked me, I just faxed you my ingredient report by mistake. will you please fax it back to me?

Xerxys · 01-09-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inBOIL

The IRS often requires a hard copy of documents, which a fax will satisfy. A printed-out pdf is essentially the same thing as a recieved fax, but since I value my sanity, I've never tried to argue that with any bureaucrat.

Ohh man, don't I know this..... I hate having to tell people at the offixce to just send out a PDF.... but I also fax my w2 and w4 papaers so yeah, only once while.....

BadNick · 01-09-2009, 08:37 PM

For those of you who say you must use a fax vs email, is something like a faxzero.com fax not acceptable/the same as an old school "fax"?

Charlatan · 01-10-2009, 02:08 AM

I really don't like to fax. I find it to be a big pain the ass. I can remember back before the days of email having to fax press releases to hundreds of contacts. It would take days.

Now in my work, I do a lot of contracts and if I had to fax them like I used to, I'd lose my mind. It's much better to scan and email it as a PDF.

Strange Famous · 01-10-2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murp0434

I HATE FAX MACHINES!!!! GAH!!!

ps funny story i was at work and i noticed a fax coming in. As it was printing out, the phone rang. The girl on the other end, who works in a branch in another part of the state, was panicked. Hey, she asked me, I just faxed you my ingredient report by mistake. will you please fax it back to me?

lol that reminds me of a comedy show I saw once when the guy was running out of paper and called another office and asked them to fax some over to him.

dlish · 01-10-2009, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

I really don't like to fax. I find it to be a big pain the ass. I can remember back before the days of email having to fax press releases to hundreds of contacts. It would take days.

Now in my work, I do a lot of contracts and if I had to fax them like I used to, I'd lose my mind. It's much better to scan and email it as a PDF.

a lot of the contracts i deal with are 800-1000 pages so i cant scan it on PDF, it'd take forever!

besides, even if i scanned the contracts and emailed it signed, it still would not be considered as a legal form of transmission of information as per the contract conditions.

what type of contracts are you dealing with charlatan?

genuinegirly · 01-10-2009, 07:04 AM

We have just run into a few brick walls when it comes to faxes. Since we moved, we no longer have ready access to a fax machine. Turns out everything official we have needed to do here requires faxing. Our new health insurance company requires us to fax in certain forms. The only option they gave us besides faxing is to have it delivered via the postal service. The university requires us to fax in forms as well. Luckily they are fine with me turning in forms in person - but then I have to walk from one end of campus to the other, turning in forms all along the way.

It's quite odd - we haven't mailed anything other than birthday and Christmas cards for years, and here we are mailing documents that could easily be sent as PDFs.

roachboy · 01-10-2009, 07:07 AM

fax machines are like 8-track tapes. both have strange sounds that i kinda like (the bizarre-o hum that tells you the 8 track is switching direction, the compression--the dial-up noise of a fax connection). but both are a pain in the ass. i see fax machines around and i see people struggling with them, but i don't use one.

most of the poet-types i know love typewriters. i wonder if this is a usage cycle for obsolete technologies--things are outmoded long enough and folk start to use them because of their outmodedness, and because the look of outmodedness is interesting for reasons that have little to do with how it might have been understood before the outmoded befell the technology. or something like that.

there has to be a better sentence..

raeanna74 · 01-10-2009, 07:55 AM

Email isn't always considered legal while faxes are, so if I need it for legal purposes I do use the fax. I can think of about 10 times that I've used it in the past 3 months.
When I bought my new house I ended up receiving e-mails from the realtor but that turned out to be a fiasco. Wells Fargo was selling their forclosure properties through a 'servicer' who was selling the properties through a realtor who ended up having to deal with my buyer's realtor. Wells Fargo refused to send any hard copies - ever. They prefered to fax the papers to their servicer who turned the FAXES into PDF and sent them to their realtor, who sent them to the buyers realtor by fax again. In the end we could barely make out any words on the papers. Finally we did get copies of the original faxed papers to sign. A real circus. I ended up checking with the BBB and found that this servicer has had 2 other compliants of the same kind of business dealings in the past 5 years.

My policy is - Fax when you have to, Email when it's convenient and always back up with hard copies when it needs to be legal.

little_tippler · 01-10-2009, 07:58 AM

At work our fax is still necessary. There are lots of people over here who don't know the first thing about emailing or computers. The art business still deals with plenty of dinosaurs. Also, if something is signed, and can't be dispatched by courier in a hurry, most people consider the fax the next best thing. Beats me as to why but having a paper in hand seems to make a difference. I always try to email people rather than fax but sometimes they are insistent and it must be done.

ratbastid · 01-10-2009, 08:14 AM

I built a web application for a client a few years ago in the construction industry. They're a major-project general contractor--they build hospitals and malls and stadiums, things like that. They shepherd a massive network of subcontractors all across the country, literally thousands of cement or framing or electrical subcontractors. The way things have been done is with the lumbering, yellowing beast of a machine in the corner that can broadcast faxes overnight to thousands of fax machines in their subcontractors' offices, and receive ten or so faxes simultaneously, queue them for printing, etc. A nasty piece of work, but it's what that industry has used for decades.

We replaced it with a system that's entirely web and email. Subcontractors (we imported the database straight from the lumbering beast) are emailed when they're selected to bid on a project, log in and see details, submit their bid online, etc. It's taken off like crazy (enough so that I've had to expand the partition their database files live on twice). I think people are glad to be well shut of fax technology.

Grasshopper Green · 01-10-2009, 09:57 AM

Many of our clients at work don't have access to email, so I use a fax machine daily M-F.

Bear Cub · 01-10-2009, 11:08 AM

Not for work, but for things like insurance paperwork, etc. I find people in a small office are much more apt to receive a hard copy fax than to consistently check every e-mail they get for important information.

Suave · 01-10-2009, 01:31 PM

Aside from the faxing I did at my old job on a regular basis (~4 months ago) the only faxing I ever do is occasionally for resumes, although I prefer to use E-mail, or insurance/government applications and documents.

savmesom11 · 01-10-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

But to get something for my doctor????? I had to send a fax, just a few months ago.

I work for a very small nonprofit mental health agency and we use manual faxing often to avoid HIPPA confusion/violations.

stonefaceddog · 01-11-2009, 03:49 PM

I have to use the fax machine at the office about once or twice a week. I try to avoid using it since it is slow and unreliable. Thankfully, most stuff can get done via e-mail attachments.

Charlatan · 01-11-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish

a lot of the contracts i deal with are 800-1000 pages so i cant scan it on PDF, it'd take forever!

besides, even if i scanned the contracts and emailed it signed, it still would not be considered as a legal form of transmission of information as per the contract conditions.

what type of contracts are you dealing with charlatan?

Most of my contracts are only about 15 pages max. I don't use the PDF as a legal doc but rather as a way of showing that the hard copy has been signed. It's a good faith kind of thing and is always followed by the hard copy being mailed or couriered. Usually it triggers a delivery or a payment.

They are broadcast licenses.

Kingruv · 01-11-2009, 07:52 PM

The 8-Track analogy is a good one for more than the obvious technical reasons. The people inclined to DEMAND the use of a fax are the same ones that likely had a dozen 8-track tapes 35 years ago that they played over and over until they wore them out. (same ones that threw them out the window on the side of the road strung out a hundred yards)
Stick it in, oriented the correct way and turn up the volume. They see it as effective, simple and foolproof. They generally see themselves the same way. Many of these would be known as anal retentive but are not actually detail minded enough to really be labeled that way. Lawyers/Legislators saw the fax as a good way to horn their power into technology and so "protection/recgonition was brought forward making it a scam artists dream.
With everything there is a price to be paid. Facsimilies have vunerabilities that are often not considered and can be phreaked like other telephone systems with special abilities for faxes. Con artists have special work that is perfect for faxing.
Not meant to hurt anyones feelings.

01-09-2009, 09:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I still have a fax in my office. A lot of the people I deal with at work (mostly service stations) dont have PC's or access to email. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

01-09-2009, 09:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
PonyPotato Soaring Location: Ohio!	I sent 4 faxes yesterday for work. We have one invoice that can't just be sent as a pdf - it has to be sent via fax as well to the financial center to be certified. I also have to fax written requests for records to the bank, etc. because they don't always accept them via email. __________________ "Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark." — Henri-Frédéric Amiel

01-09-2009, 09:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Our office got rid of our fax machine/line a few months ago. Up to 99% of what we were receiving was spam (junk faxes?). (I'm not exaggerating.) Everything was fine until recently when a magazine editor wanted permission to reprint from one of our books. He asked if I would fax him an agreement. I told him we didn't have a fax machine (or should I have said "a facsimile machine"?) and I just emailed him an agreement. That could have been the whole deal right there, but apparently he needed (wanted?) something signed (you know, with an actual pen), so he couriered a printout of the email I sent him with a line he drew on the bottom for me to sign. I rolled my eyes and signed it, and then proceeded to scan it into a PDF and emailed it back to him. A few days later, he left a phone message stating that he had yet to receive the signed agreement and would like to get it soon because the magazine was already issued. I gave up any hope at this point, so I just snail-mailed it back to him, essentially wasting an envelope and a stamp. I feel bad, but I couldn't help visualizing him as a dinosaur...who likes to eat snails. To me, fax is dead. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 01-09-2009 at 09:48 AM..

01-09-2009, 10:39 AM	#5 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	I believe faxes should be considered deprecated, obsolete, and in general not used anymore. They're slow, noisy, jam often, the toner is expensive, and the quality is terrible. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

01-09-2009, 10:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
JamesB Insane Location: Ottawa	I HATE having to fax ANYTHING. I still have to fax in some forms for work - since they want a "signature" on some forms. I told them I can do the exact same thing in electronic format - change is scary! __________________ -- apt-get install spare_time --

01-09-2009, 10:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Our office uses a fax machine, but our fax number is provided by eFax. When we get a fax, it gets emailed to everyone in PDF format instead of having to collect the hard copy. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

01-09-2009, 10:50 AM	#8 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	When we bought our house I was away in Florida so the agent faxed me the paperwork to sign and fax back. I hope hotels don't throw out their business centre machines so quickly. At work I get faxes from shipping brokers. They seem pretty tied to the technology. I saw an old Charlie Chan serial from the 30's or 40's where the police used a sort of fax machine to send a sketch of the suspect to another precinct. They basically stopped the action of the story to give a demonstration because it must have been so astonishing at the time; not unlike how tech thrillers today showcase satellite and gps tracking and whatnot. I wonder who's still using typewriters? __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life Last edited by fresnelly; 01-09-2009 at 10:52 AM..

01-09-2009, 11:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	I use the fax machine here at work at least once a day, if not more. __________________ From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

01-09-2009, 11:10 AM	#10 (permalink)
THGL Psycho Location: Louisville, KY	I just used the fax machine yesterday (dentist faxed me a copy of my receipt then I faxed it to my ins. company for verification). The PCs in the office can fax from the desktop, but the new server doesn't like Macs so I have to use the real machine. I've got a fax number at home, too. $9.99/mo. from Vonage and it's plugged directly to my Mac at home (fax software is built in). Until the entire world is online, I say the fax still has viability. Oh, and my father still uses a manual typewriter when he needs to send a business letter out (he's mostly retired). __________________ "The truth is merely an excuse for lack of imagination." - Garak

01-09-2009, 12:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	I have used fax machines mostly for financial correspondence--my student loan company is a fan of receiving them, apparently. Any time something on my payment plan changes, there is a fax to be sent. My choices are to fax it or snail mail it, but faxing is faster. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

01-09-2009, 12:18 PM	#12 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	I can still fax from work. But instead of an "old school" fax machine which we got rid of a couple years ago, our current multi-purpose copy machines can copy, fax, scan, email, etc....so I can put any document in there and send it as a fax or email or whatever else is technically possible now adays. Secondly, of course I can email anything...but I can also fax directly from my PC, and I can also receive a fax directly into my PC. A specific fax number is unique to my PC and anyone can have such a feature since it's very common and not costly. Thirdly, I can "print to pdf" with free software that works great and is highly reliable. So any document that I have can be converted to a PDF and either emailed or faxed to whomever needs such stuff without me having to do anything other than hitting the "print" option on my PC. So other than using the old school word "FAX", I don't really see any problem doing any of this.

01-09-2009, 12:21 PM	#13 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	The IRS often requires a hard copy of documents, which a fax will satisfy. A printed-out pdf is essentially the same thing as a recieved fax, but since I value my sanity, I've never tried to argue that with any bureaucrat. __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

01-09-2009, 12:45 PM	#14 (permalink)
SabrinaFair Junkie Location: Louisville, KY	I still use them for work--I find the legal profession at large to be rather slow-moving to embrace new technology, and I live in Kentucky. (which I adore, but wouldn't call the most tech savvy state in the union) __________________ "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy." -Desiderata

01-09-2009, 01:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	I've had to fax four things in the past month; twice to Unemployment, once to get an official college transcript, and once to get a refund for out-of-pocket Rx expenses to my health insurance company. Since I threw away our fax machine in 2005, I've had to drive a half-mile and pay $1.50 each time. __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

01-09-2009, 01:40 PM	#16 (permalink)
Fotzlid Junkie Location: Greater Boston area	I use them at work as well. Patients charts are still in paper form as a lot of facilities haven't gone to electronic files yet.

01-09-2009, 02:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	We receive faxed orders all the time, but don't send many. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

01-09-2009, 01:46 PM	#17 (permalink)
Lucifer Husband of Seamaiden Location: Nova Scotia	On our ship, we use the fax machine constantly. The internet just isn't as reliable, as our satellite phone system. When I'm at work, I fax at least once per shift, sometimes more. Security lists, customs forms, bills of lading, food orders, we send a lot of paperwork over the fax machine. __________________ I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls. - Job 30:29 1123, 6536, 5321

01-09-2009, 02:44 PM	#18 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	I work for the government, so yes - I fax. Not all the time, but enough that I wouldn't get rid of it. Our technology is either cutting edge, or else it's just barely out of the bronze age. Nice eclectic mix. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

01-09-2009, 03:27 PM	#20 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I set up our fax line to create PDF's and send them to an inbox a year ago, and people kept losing inbound faxes that way... so we patched the number back to a physical fax machine. And I do still deal with some suppliers who wont accept an email Purchase Order and insist on a faxed one with a signature. Also, a need at least several times a week to get signed proof of purchase of a credit card transaction. Its all well and good talking of "dinosaurs" etc, but if you want to get a copy signed receipt from a fillng station I'd wish you the best of luck telling the merchant to scan it and send you a PDF... and you'd end up crediting the transaction. In the UK, bank cards are chipped and PIN approved, but all fuel cards are still mag stripe and signature approved. We deal with stations in the wilds of Scotland and West or Ireland who dont have an EPOS at ALL and still use a click clack machine and send in manual slips for every card transaction! __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

01-09-2009, 07:14 PM	#21 (permalink)
KarrB Upright	I use every form of communication possible depending upon what's working at the time. If the PC is down, then phone is used for faxes. The entire world is not completely virtual yet. I had an attorney once tell me he didn't know how to use a pdf and had to wait until his secretary came in to send me a file.... daaaaaa

01-09-2009, 07:27 PM	#22 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	i deal with a lot of construction contracts and most contracts mention that the preferred method of communication is either hand delivery or fax. email is not considered a legal form of communication under many contracts and will not be considered if there is a dispute. its stupid i know. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

01-09-2009, 08:15 PM	#23 (permalink)
murp0434 Crazy Location: East Texas	I HATE FAX MACHINES!!!! GAH!!! ps funny story i was at work and i noticed a fax coming in. As it was printing out, the phone rang. The girl on the other end, who works in a branch in another part of the state, was panicked. Hey, she asked me, I just faxed you my ingredient report by mistake. will you please fax it back to me? __________________ These are the good old days. How did I become upright?

01-09-2009, 08:37 PM	#25 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	For those of you who say you must use a fax vs email, is something like a faxzero.com fax not acceptable/the same as an old school "fax"?

01-10-2009, 02:08 AM	#26 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I really don't like to fax. I find it to be a big pain the ass. I can remember back before the days of email having to fax press releases to hundreds of contacts. It would take days. Now in my work, I do a lot of contracts and if I had to fax them like I used to, I'd lose my mind. It's much better to scan and email it as a PDF. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-10-2009, 07:04 AM	#29 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	We have just run into a few brick walls when it comes to faxes. Since we moved, we no longer have ready access to a fax machine. Turns out everything official we have needed to do here requires faxing. Our new health insurance company requires us to fax in certain forms. The only option they gave us besides faxing is to have it delivered via the postal service. The university requires us to fax in forms as well. Luckily they are fine with me turning in forms in person - but then I have to walk from one end of campus to the other, turning in forms all along the way. It's quite odd - we haven't mailed anything other than birthday and Christmas cards for years, and here we are mailing documents that could easily be sent as PDFs. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

01-10-2009, 07:07 AM	#30 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	fax machines are like 8-track tapes. both have strange sounds that i kinda like (the bizarre-o hum that tells you the 8 track is switching direction, the compression--the dial-up noise of a fax connection). but both are a pain in the ass. i see fax machines around and i see people struggling with them, but i don't use one. most of the poet-types i know love typewriters. i wonder if this is a usage cycle for obsolete technologies--things are outmoded long enough and folk start to use them because of their outmodedness, and because the look of outmodedness is interesting for reasons that have little to do with how it might have been understood before the outmoded befell the technology. or something like that. there has to be a better sentence.. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

01-10-2009, 07:55 AM	#31 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Email isn't always considered legal while faxes are, so if I need it for legal purposes I do use the fax. I can think of about 10 times that I've used it in the past 3 months. When I bought my new house I ended up receiving e-mails from the realtor but that turned out to be a fiasco. Wells Fargo was selling their forclosure properties through a 'servicer' who was selling the properties through a realtor who ended up having to deal with my buyer's realtor. Wells Fargo refused to send any hard copies - ever. They prefered to fax the papers to their servicer who turned the FAXES into PDF and sent them to their realtor, who sent them to the buyers realtor by fax again. In the end we could barely make out any words on the papers. Finally we did get copies of the original faxed papers to sign. A real circus. I ended up checking with the BBB and found that this servicer has had 2 other compliants of the same kind of business dealings in the past 5 years. My policy is - Fax when you have to, Email when it's convenient and always back up with hard copies when it needs to be legal. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

01-10-2009, 07:58 AM	#32 (permalink)
little_tippler Leaning against the -Sun- Super Moderator Location: on the other side	At work our fax is still necessary. There are lots of people over here who don't know the first thing about emailing or computers. The art business still deals with plenty of dinosaurs. Also, if something is signed, and can't be dispatched by courier in a hurry, most people consider the fax the next best thing. Beats me as to why but having a paper in hand seems to make a difference. I always try to email people rather than fax but sometimes they are insistent and it must be done. __________________ Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918

01-10-2009, 08:14 AM	#33 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I built a web application for a client a few years ago in the construction industry. They're a major-project general contractor--they build hospitals and malls and stadiums, things like that. They shepherd a massive network of subcontractors all across the country, literally thousands of cement or framing or electrical subcontractors. The way things have been done is with the lumbering, yellowing beast of a machine in the corner that can broadcast faxes overnight to thousands of fax machines in their subcontractors' offices, and receive ten or so faxes simultaneously, queue them for printing, etc. A nasty piece of work, but it's what that industry has used for decades. We replaced it with a system that's entirely web and email. Subcontractors (we imported the database straight from the lumbering beast) are emailed when they're selected to bid on a project, log in and see details, submit their bid online, etc. It's taken off like crazy (enough so that I've had to expand the partition their database files live on twice). I think people are glad to be well shut of fax technology.

01-10-2009, 09:57 AM	#34 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	Many of our clients at work don't have access to email, so I use a fax machine daily M-F. __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

01-10-2009, 11:08 AM	#35 (permalink)
Bear Cub The Reverend Side Boob Location: Nofe Curolina	Not for work, but for things like insurance paperwork, etc. I find people in a small office are much more apt to receive a hard copy fax than to consistently check every e-mail they get for important information. __________________ Living in the United Socialist States of America.

01-10-2009, 01:31 PM	#36 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Aside from the faxing I did at my old job on a regular basis (~4 months ago) the only faxing I ever do is occasionally for resumes, although I prefer to use E-mail, or insurance/government applications and documents. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

01-11-2009, 03:49 PM	#38 (permalink)
stonefaceddog Upright Location: anywhere but here.	I have to use the fax machine at the office about once or twice a week. I try to avoid using it since it is slow and unreliable. Thankfully, most stuff can get done via e-mail attachments.

01-11-2009, 07:52 PM	#40 (permalink)
Kingruv Upright Location: NoVa	The 8-Track analogy is a good one for more than the obvious technical reasons. The people inclined to DEMAND the use of a fax are the same ones that likely had a dozen 8-track tapes 35 years ago that they played over and over until they wore them out. (same ones that threw them out the window on the side of the road strung out a hundred yards) Stick it in, oriented the correct way and turn up the volume. They see it as effective, simple and foolproof. They generally see themselves the same way. Many of these would be known as anal retentive but are not actually detail minded enough to really be labeled that way. Lawyers/Legislators saw the fax as a good way to horn their power into technology and so "protection/recgonition was brought forward making it a scam artists dream. With everything there is a price to be paid. Facsimilies have vunerabilities that are often not considered and can be phreaked like other telephone systems with special abilities for faxes. Con artists have special work that is perfect for faxing. Not meant to hurt anyones feelings.