Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - There’s probably no God, now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

- General Discussion (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/)

- - There’s probably no God, now stop worrying and enjoy your life. (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/144052-there-s-probably-no-god-now-stop-worrying-enjoy-your-life.html)

There’s probably no God, now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

Quote:

View: Atheists Send a Message, on 800 Buses
Source: Nytimes
posted with the TFP thread generator

Atheists Send a Message, on 800 Buses
January 7, 2009
London Journal
Atheists Send a Message, on 800 Buses
By SARAH LYALL
LONDON — The advertisement on the bus was fairly mild, just a passage from the Bible and the address of a Christian Web site. But when Ariane Sherine, a comedy writer, looked on the Web site in June, she was startled to learn that she and her nonbelieving friends were headed straight to hell, to “spend all eternity in torment.”

That’s a bit extreme, she thought, as well as hard to prove. “If I wanted to run a bus ad saying ‘Beware — there is a giant lion from London Zoo on the loose!’ or ‘The “bits” in orange juice aren’t orange but plastic — don’t drink them or you’ll die!’ I think I might be asked to show my working and back up my claims,” Ms. Sherine wrote in a commentary on the Web site of The Guardian.

And then she thought, how about putting some atheist messages on the bus, as a corrective to the religious ones?

And so were planted the seeds of the Atheist Bus Campaign, an effort to disseminate a godless message to the greater public. When the organizers announced the effort in October, they said they hoped to raise a modest $8,000 or so.

But something seized people’s imagination. Supported by the scientist and author Richard Dawkins, the philosopher A. C. Grayling and the British Humanist Association, among others, the campaign raised nearly $150,000 in four days. Now it has more than $200,000, and last Wednesday it unveiled its advertisements on 800 buses across Britain.

“There’s probably no God,” the advertisements say. “Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”

Spotting one of the buses on display at a news conference in Kensington, passers-by were struck by the unusual message.

Not always positively. “I think it’s dreadful,” said Sandra Lafaire, 76, a tourist from Los Angeles, who said she believed in God and still enjoyed her life, thank you very much. “Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don’t like it in my face.”

But Sarah Hall, 28, a visitor from Australia, said she was happy to see such a robust example of freedom of speech. “Whatever floats your boat,” she said.

Inspired by the London campaign, the American Humanist Association started running bus advertisements in Washington in November, with a more muted message. “Why believe in a god?” the ads read, over a picture of a man in a Santa suit. “Just be good for goodness’ sake.”

Although Australian atheists were refused permission to place advertisements on buses saying, “Atheism: Sleep in on Sunday mornings,” the British effort has been striking in the lack of outrage it has generated. The Methodist Church, for instance, said it welcomed the campaign as a way to get people to talk about God.

Although Queen Elizabeth is the head of the Church of England, Britain is a deeply secular country with a dwindling number of regular churchgoers, and with politicians who seem to go out of their way to play down their religious beliefs.

In 2003, when an interviewer asked Tony Blair, then the prime minister, about religion, his spokesman, Alastair Campbell, interjected, snapping, “We don’t do God.” After leaving office, Mr. Blair became a Roman Catholic.

More recently, Nick Clegg, a member of Parliament and the leader of the Liberal Democrats, announced that he was an atheist. (He later downgraded himself to agnostic.)

David Cameron, leader of the Conservative Party, alluded to a popular radio station when he joked that his religious belief was like “the reception for Magic FM in the Chilterns: it sort of comes and goes.”

Still, since Sept. 11, 2001, religion has played an ever more important role in public discussions, said Mr. Dawkins, the best-selling author of “The God Delusion,” with the government increasingly seeking religious viewpoints and Anglican bishops still having the automatic right to sit in the House of Lords.

“Across Britain, we are used to being bombarded by religious interests,” he said, “not just Christians, but other religions as well, who seem to think that they have got a God-given right to propagandize.”

Next week, the Atheist Bus Campaign plans to place 1,000 advertisements in the subway system, featuring enthusiastic quotations from Emily Dickinson, Albert Einstein, Douglas Adams and Katharine Hepburn.

An interesting element of the bus slogan is the word “probably,” which would seem to be more suited to an Agnostic Bus Campaign than to an atheist one. Mr. Dawkins, for one, argued that the word should not be there at all.

But the element of doubt was necessary to meet British advertising guidelines, said Tim Bleakley, managing director for sales and marketing at CBS Outdoor in London, which handles advertising for the bus system.

For religious people, advertisements saying there is no God “would have been misleading,” Mr. Bleakley said.

“So as not to fall foul of the code, you have to acknowledge that there is a gray area,” he said.

He said that potential ads were rejected all the time. “We wouldn’t, for example, run an ad for an action movie where the gun was pointing toward the commuter,” he said.

But Mr. Bleakley said he had no problem with the atheist bus ads. “We do have religious organizations that promote themselves,” he said. “If somebody doesn’t believe in religion, why wouldn’t we carry an ad that promotes the opposite view? To coin a phrase, it’s not for us to play God.”

I find this rather funny to think that it is offensive to read something that thumbs or sticks the finger at you innocently. I'm not offended per se, but I do pay little mind to such consternations and prostrations as it is.

I take notice of the abortion and God billboards that sometimes are found in NYC. They seem oddly out of place here. In Texas I saw them and for some reason they seemed to fit better there as it seemed each mile we drove we passed at least 2 - 3 churches.

While it seems easy enough to get atheists or agnostics to put something up like this, I can't wait for there to be a group of like minded who just want to make something funny happen ala Improv Everywhere. I can't see why it wouldn't or couldn't become more culture jammer prone in some fashion.

At the same time, it would be itself part of the culture and clutter it is trying to jam.

Do you take offense to religious billboards?

While I don't necessarily appreciate the inference that because I believe in a god, I must not enjoy my life or that I must worry too much about said things, I'm not offended by this or other sorts of billboards. I appreciate anything that gets the conversation started. Atheist billboards and bus ads have just as much right to have their say as anyone else. Personally, I find it offensive that there are organizations out there working to stop the free speech these atheists are trying to get out there.

I'm offended by people being offended, that's about the extent.

Heres a link to the Campaign for those who want to have a look. Justgiving - Atheist Bus Campaign

I find it funny that believers want to play the martyr every time someone spouts a message different from their own. The lady in the article said she didn't like it in her face..

hrmmm "one nation under God" ring a bell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr (Post 2580710)

There was much the same reaction when an atheist group put up a display in the Washington State capitol.

This is the placard they displayed (until it was stolen by vandals):
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/LI...gn.olympia.jpg

The fact is, atheists have to walk around all the time and have Christian messages shoved in their faces. Turnabout is fair play, don't you think?

I don't recall ever being offended by a religious billboard. I view religious billboards in a similar way that I view people knocking on doors proselytizing. I believe in free speech, so they can do that as long as they don't infringe on my rights.

Coincidentally, I just saw something yesterday sort of related to this. Right up the road from where I work there is an abortion clinic; I believe it's run by Planned Parenthood but I'm really not sure of that. Usually on Fridays, but sometimes also at other times, there are protesters along the street where the driveway starts, they stand outside and apparently pray the rosary, carry signs saying things like "we love your baby, don't kill it" and "give us your baby and we'll take care of it and love it" etc. and they even have large photos of aborted fetuses and pictures of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Well yesterday there was a new group of protesters outside; what looked like a group of late high school/early college age kids, all of them with red tape stuck over their mouths...so I figure they're either protesting the pressure on freedom of choice, or protesting the fact that the anti-abortion protesters are not allowed to get too close to people entering the clinic or verbally intimidate anyone...I'm still not sure what their POV was.

I don't think it's as much a call for theists to become atheists as it is a rally for closet atheists. It seems a simple enough idea, rallying atheists, but "atheist" describes what one is not instead of what one is, so organization seems difficult.

A better way to rally atheists, in my experience, is with the issues. Imagine a billboard showing an actual page from a science textbook that includes intelligent design or creationism. The billboard can say "Some religion isn't harmful, but some is. Think for yourself." Like Snowy said above, the insinuation that all religious people are troubled by religion seems dishonest. Some are, some aren't. Making sure to build into the message that it's only some religious people that atheists might have a problem with would go a long way. Honesty, after all, is a moral that theists and atheists can share.

I saw similar signs last summer along the NJ turnpike. I chuckled briefly, then I resumed worrying about whether or not I'll be laid off.

From what I went through in high school. This billboard makes me so happy.

**clouds part and angels sing** - pun intended

If you are religious, and believe at death that humanity is going to be sorted between those going to your brand of Heaven, and the rest get eternal punishment, it would be unconscionable not to spend life on earth saving as many people as you could. Atheists, however, have no similar burden, and this explains the difference in how much propaganda we see.

To loosely quote Penn Jillette, if I know you are standing in front of a truck (which, from a religious perspective, all atheists/wrongtheists are) that is going to kill you, I'm going to try my best to convince you to get out of the road, and at some point I'm just going to tackle you.

However, if you are standing in front of me nervously saying 'I have to be careful to stay out of the way of the invisible trucks' I'm going to pity you and give you wide berth, but not waste too much effort convincing you invisible trucks don't exist.

I love that the UK seems almost nonplussed about these ads. I love that the politicians appear to distance themselves from religion (regardless of their personal beliefs). I think other parts of the world could benefit from this sort of attitude as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan (Post 2580771)

How ironic is it that over 200 years after we tossed the British out, the Brits seem to have it pretty well figured out and the United States has fucked it all up?

The British are like the high school girlfriend we dumped because of all the sex we thought we were going to get in college, only to run into her 10 years later to find out she's smoking hot and we've become fat and unemployed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic (Post 2580746)

that is an excellent way to put it, very well said

Everyone believes their own thing. I don't find offense even though I am a believer. On a good day I'd laugh, on a bad day I'd simply ignore it.

I don't believe anyone is going to be sorted into heaven or hell, however. I find the idea ridiculous.

Whether I believe in God, god, or gods, or santa is really nobody elses business. What offends me is that so many people atheist or religious seem to think it's their right to tell people what they should or shouldn't think/do/say. Where's the freedom in that? Hey if I DON'T want to enjoy my life, don't tell me TO enjoy it. If I want to eat, drink and have sex my whole life, don't tell me I'm 'sinning'. Because that's YOUR personal beliefs. Keep your beliefs to yourself unless you're invited to share.

Its all propaganda, it takes ones self to either accept it or deny it. I'm not religious, and I feel that church/god is shoved down our throats, this may be a breath of fresh air. People can believe what they want, its not me and if they feel that I'm wrong... oh well.

I think if people want the "anti-god" signs to be taken down, it's a slippery slope until you're not allowed to have religious signs up. I would be sort of saddened if I woke up one day and churches didn't have their senseless, grammatically incorrect, and misspelled billboards in front of them. Texting my friends the silly things I see on church signs is one of my favorite activities.
"Go to church and get a faythe lift"
"God are watching you"

good times

Well, now I know what I want my bumper sticker to say.

On a more serious note, I think the signs are warranted. Maybe it's because I live in the South, but I always see signs telling me how important religion is. One that really struck me in that it was almost funny, was a sign that said something along the lines of "An educated person knows the Bible" and then there was a link to some Bible website. I've seen that sign in several places, and while I wasn't offended (I never really am), it did seem rather insulting toward those who were either of another religion or Atheists/Agnostics. But then, I suppose an educated person who knows the Bible would probably fit into one of those categories, which seemed humorous at the time.

Either way, free speech for the win.

Interestingly enough, I saw a 'freedom from religion' billboard this evening, and said 'Amen!'. If 'religion' is some sort of burden or obligation for you, then free yourself, now. Sure, there are some ethical or moral guidelines that go with any belief system...but religion and spirituality shouldn't be about guilt! I'm afraid that here in the US, that's what it's become...either you're religious, and thus judgemental, restrictive, and guilt-ridden, or you're an atheist/humanist and happy. That's unhealthy and wrong, I believe.

As a direct response to religious billboards, it's nice to see that atheists A: actually got a message out there, and B: did it in an unoffensive, pleasant way. On the other hand, one of my favorite billboards ever was in a picture sent by one of my brother's friends who lives somewhere in the south. In white on black, it simply said:

Go To Church
Or the devil will get you!

I'm not sure if I was laughing with them or at them (probably a bit of both,) but it really had me laughing.

This is the only billboard I've ever seen that bothered me, which shouldn't really surprise anyone on TFP who is familiar with my posting.
http://www.gunguys.com/images/posted/billboard.jpg

So if the billboards had to include "probably", then all of the religious advertising should too.

Here is a correct billboard.
A potential figure popularly known amongst certain religious sects as "god" may have said "let there be light", and there may or may not have been light. Or it could have been a coincidence. But if this figure did it, then it was pretty good. Or a parlor trick.

i'm not offended at all really.

id react the same way i did when i saw a plane writing the words 'jesus' on xmas day in the sky....i'd have a great big chuckle and probably take out my camera and take a snap while im at it.

Now I understand the nature of the particular reaction in the article. "Atheists are going to hell" isn't a message I can ever accept as compassionate concern, obviously.

But the ad response doesn't sit well with me either. "There probably is no God" is a message that is potentially hurtful to a number of people, whether or not the statement is more or less valid. Valid statements, of course, aren't necessarily meant to be communicated wholesale. For example, how would an ad go over in public that read, "Your mother will probably die either violently or of an incurable disease, so you should call her more often. [Insert telephone company logo]." This message is more or less valid, but not very sensitive.

An atheist response I would more likely approve would be one akin to what Willravel suggested: "Some religion isn't harmful, but some is. Think for yourself." Something along this line, anyway.

I don't find it offensive. If people believe in their mind a God exists, then it does. If people believe a God doesn't exist in their mind, then it doesn't. Probably no one knows for sure either way.

I don't think it's offensive, but I think it's trying to be.

The only thing that might be offensive is the disparity between the two allowed ads, if I'm reading the OP correctly. The religious ones make no doubt that nonbelievers will burn in hell, but the atheists have to soften their view with "probably's".

I got offended when I was in the spouse's church (he used to drag me there on holidays) and the minister was declaring that anyone that didn't believe would burn in hell. Last time I ever went.
There's a small billboard just down the road across from the Catholic church that said "Abortion stops a beating heart" on one side and "Adoption, not abortion" on the other. Someone took red and blue spraypaint and completely obliterated the signs and wrote "Women's Choice" on them.
I mentally applauded.

I must say, I love Mr. Bleakly's final sentence.

As to the principle of the campaign, I support it. I'm not an atheist by any means, but I think the absolutely ridiculous fervour with which many Christians unload the idea that non-Christians are hell-bound is silly and quite rude. Turnabout is fair play. I see this as more of an imitative shot out of spite rather than an actual propaganda campaign, and that's why I like it. Spite is delicious, and I always obey my thirst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru (Post 2581292)

An atheist response I would more likely approve would be one akin to what Willravel suggested: "Some religion isn't harmful, but some is. Think for yourself." Something along this line, anyway.

My suggestions have been turned down. It was too much about religion and not enough about atheism, which I understand, but I still feel it's better to be more strategic if they really want to make a difference. Of course this was a while ago. Now? I don't like the idea of atheistic proselytizing at all. It makes no sense whatsoever.

If you're really interested in telling people about your nonbelief, if you're like an atheist kettle ready to blow your lid, do it in a way that's constructive, in a way that's actually addressing a problem that you have with religion (or more specifically, certain religious people). Instead of saying, "Oh, btw, there's probably no god/God/G-d" you should say, "Believe whatever makes you happy, but my children are going to learn about evolution in science class, not religion," or "Are you sure a god that wants you to hate and kill is worthy of worship?" Those are specific grievances. They deal with real problems that effect real people. They don't attack all religion, just some problematic side effects of people taking themselves too seriously. Someone else believing in god doesn't have anything to do with me, so it's none of my business to tell them what to believe.

What I'd like to see more of is billboards or signs that tell what someone actually believes, not what they think OTHER people should DO.

Like the sign - "sleep in on Sundays" (maybe I don't want to? What do you BELIEVE that would make you say that??) or "Go to Church - or the devil will get you" (which church? this still doesn't tell me what YOU believe, just what you think I should DO.)

Freedom of speech is not the freedom to tell people how they should live their life but to tell people what beliefs you hold to and why. There is a difference. Too many religious people never see that and some athiests ignore that difference as well.

Believing in a spiritual presence and being religious aren't the same thing.

Its a bit silly, but the woman who organised it is gorgeous!