Borla

Seriously, this is a messed up story.

Brianna Broitzman

Click the link, the girls are surprisingly cute. But how messed up do they have to be to get off on such a thing? Rubbing old guys penises for fun? Rubbing bare butts on their faces? Hopefully these girls get punished to the full extent of the law, and have to register as sex offenders.

__________________
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde!!!!

blahblah454

That link looked like someones awful facebook page. And yes if this is true that is pretty messed up. I hope they are punished, we all know what would happen to teenage boys if they did this to women in a nursing home.

SecretMethod70

It's true: FOXNews.com - 6 Teens Charged in Nursing Home Abuse - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

It's never appropriate to do those kinds of things against someone's will, especially when it's someone as vulnerable as the residents of a nursing home. Pretty crazy and sick that they get off on that.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

genuinegirly

Sounds like a stupid gossip smear for someone who is running for student body president at a high school.

But, yeah, it's accurate. Here's a link to a Fox News article about it: FOXNews.com - 6 Teens Charged in Nursing Home Abuse - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Awww, SecretMethod beat me to it!

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

mrklixx

If these were guys and they were found guilty, I'll bet they would be required to register as sex offenders. That's a cloud that would follow someone forever, instead of some meaningless probation.

__________________
This post is content. If you don't like it then you are not content. Or perhaps just incontinent.

This is not a link - Do not click here

I hate animated avatars.

RetroGunslinger

Oh yeah, definitely. This reminds me of a news story from a while back about kids popping other kids in the crotch while walking through the halls, and how either the judge or the prosecution wanted to give them sex offender status. While I don't agree with that assessment, I don't see how this isn't 100X worse.

__________________
It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay.

M.B. Keene

SabrinaFair

I've never been so bored at work that I've thought, "Hmm...I think I'll stick my finger up an old man's rectum..." But seriously, this is one of those crimes I have a hard time understanding because I can't imagine what motivates one to commit it. Maybe it's a good thing I don't get it.....

And in a strange twist of odd coincidence, as I was typing this message, a commercial for a class-action law suit came on TV, asking if your loved ones have been mistreated in a nursing home....

__________________
"With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
-Desiderata

flat5

They need to be carefully checked out by psychologists, repeatedly, for a long time as a condition of their probation, if that's all they receive as punishment.

Bill O'Rights

Keep that thought and hold it in a special place. Bring it out and dust it off on occasions such as this. I've used it far to numerous times over the years, and I should imagine it to be of added value to you, in your chosen profession.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Tully Mars

Yep, but do we know they won't be required to reg.?

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

skizziks

How special is Brianna Broitzman that her name is the headline, and in the tags? Is she some local famous person? Daughter of the mayor?

What disturbs me most is how they regard other human beings as just meat to be played with, impersonal objects to use as toys. I also dont understand why a teen girl would find it amusing to put her finger up an old man's ass. The best part of the article was the pictures interspersed with the print.

mrklixx

I don't know for 100% sure, no. I was just going based on what the prosecuting attorney said would likely be the outcome. If all things were fair, then I think the should be required to be registered as sex offenders. Even though the situations are similar, imagine what the outcry would be if this had happened at a day-care. What these girls did is worse than other things that have gotten men registered as sex offenders (such as public urination).

__________________
This post is content. If you don't like it then you are not content. Or perhaps just incontinent.

This is not a link - Do not click here

I hate animated avatars.

Bear Cub

"Did you stick your finger up that guy's butthole?"

"Yea, but I'm just a teenage girl, so its cool."

__________________
Living in the United Socialist States of America.

Willravel

It's important that we teach younger people how important it is to respect their elders. They never would have done this if they had my parents and grandparents.

Tully Mars

I agree there should be no gender bias here. It's not uncommon though. I think if these were male offenders we'd be reading about how the DA was filing felony charges and requesting 10-15 yr sentences. I can hear the speech on the courthouse steps now "We must protect the most vulnerable in our society form those individuals willing to victimize them with such serious deviant acts... I will make every effort these individuals serve the maximum sentence for each act." Instead they're being charged with "gross misdemeanors." Not sure exactly what that means, stuff like this varies state to state. I do agree it's gross.

All that said- I have no idea if they'll have to reg. as SO's. Really depends on the laws in the state of Minn. But I wouldn't doubt it if the DA's charing them with misdemeanors as a way to ensure these poor girls aren't marked as SO's for life. I also have little doubt if Brianna was Brain we'd be seeing the case handled very differently.

Smoking Gun's got the police report-

Teens Charged In Nursing Home Abuse - December 2, 2008

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

QuasiMondo

This is like a Benny Hill skit gone horribly wrong.

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Troublebot

One more reason there needs to be better skilled, better paid, folks in the human service industry.

And yeah, they're cute, but they get less cute when you realize what rude little gilrs they are.

I think their punishment should be getting "I like sticking my fingers up an old mans ass" tattooed somewhere on their body. It will certainly make thier lives more interesting in all sorts of ways.

__________________
Howard Moon: The wind is my only friend.
Wind: [whistling] I hate you.

Strange Famous

I think we need to take this with a real pinch of salt. It is very uncommon for sex crimes to be committed by women, to me - without knowing all the details - this sounds like high spritited youthful behaviour that got out of hand.

I dont mean to diminish things - but in all honesty if I was an old man I wouldnt describe having a 19 year old girl rub her bare buttocks in my face as "abuse" - and I highly doubt that the so called "victims" did either.

A comment above stated that the reaction would be different in teenage boys had treated elderly women in such a way. I must tell, this because this WOULD be a different thing entirely. Realistically, do any of us believe that an adult male can be sexually assaulted by a woman?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Baraka_Guru

This has been covered extensively in another thread, so I'd hate to see this thread spin wildly off in another direction. I will, however, say that dismissing the reality of female-on-male abuse as non-existent disturbs me. I tend to have problems with many misandric beliefs and ideas, but this is one of the worst kind. I have trouble swallowing the idea that there are people who believe men are immune to the abuses of women, whether physical, sexual, or emotional.

That said, I think the sentencing of these girls should be handled keeping in mind the end effect they had on their victims...that is, the extent of their wrongdoings. Their sex has little to do with it, other than the fact that there are cases of them assaulting members of the opposite sex. Even so, assaulting members of the same sex is a crime to be dealt with accordingly.

Basically, I don't think they should get lighter sentences or punishment just because they're teenage girls.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

In my opinion this is a disciplinary matter and they should have lost their jobs... from what was quoted in the original article I cant see a crime that was committed.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Manic_Skafe

Did you read the part about the finger inserted into the rectum?

Let's not forget that they're in a home for a reason.

Did you read the part about the finger inserted into the rectum?

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Tully Mars

Yes, yes I do. I remember studying a case in college from North Dakota where a woman ended up kidnapping and hold hostage a guy for several weeks. They got drunk and she chained him up. She spent weeks assaulting him with everything from a broomstick to her strap-on. She often threw hot water on him when he didn't behave. He finally escaped when she got drunk again. He had burn marks and internal injuries

Females can be SO's. I believe the brake down is something like 90% to 10%. The press likes to report on the cute teacher who sleeps with her students. Sells papers better then the story of a guy getting in the ass with a broom stick. But even the guys that are getting laid by their teacher might be more damaged then most people would think.

Just input "female sex offender' into google and you get stories like-

http://www.fathermag.com/news/rape/spokane.shtml

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Baraka_Guru

What more do you need?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

I'm assuming by "humping" they mean dry humping. BTW, since when is "humping" a legal or even adult term?

Strange Famous

Cases like that (with the broom stick) are one in a million I suspect... I cant dispute what youre saying because I have no knowledge of the case, but Id be very surprised if a man actually hadnt driven the kidnap and assault and the women in question was an accessory to it.

And the girl inserting a finger in the guys rectum isnt assault is he consented to it. There are no claims that the residents complained or sought to end this behaviour. It came to light when photo's were found, not because any residents complained.

Yes, some people in home's can be vulnerable, but many are also perfectly of sound mind and mentally sharp.

What we have to ask here is:

1 - has anyone been hurt or damaged?
2 - has any resident claimed that they were subjected to things they actually found unpleasant or were against their will?

The answer to me seems to be no in both cases - which is why I believe this is no more than an employment matter. The girls behaviour was certainly over the top - but I dont see that they have hurt anyone.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

SecretMethod70

SF, are you serious? No crime?

Just because males for the most part express their sexuality differently than females doesn't mean they don't want or deserve respect. Maybe males are less discriminating about sex - and that's debatable - but that doesn't mean it's impossible to sexually abuse them. If one does these kinds of things to a man without his consent, especially when that person is older and confined to a nursing home, they are robbing that man of his dignity and agency. No matter how much that man enjoys sex, being treated like an object not worthy of respect is not something that is enjoyable.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Baraka_Guru

From the Fox article:
This isn't an "employment matter." These are serious charges.

For the record, a "gross misdemeanor" is one step below a felony. Many of these sentences can be up to a year in jail. You see these kinds of things for repeat domestic abuse and such. Depending on the actual acts by these girls, these might be sufficient charges.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

SecretMethod70

I'll be sure to sexually assault some Alzheimer's patients then.

/sarcasm

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Tully Mars

You know why I don't answer posts on the gaming thread? Because I don't know anything about gaming.

Just something to consider.

This is actually an area I worked in professionally for years. Ran sex offender treatment groups every Thursday night for years. You're seriously ill informed here.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Strange Famous

To take these one by one

1 - "splooshing water in the guys face" - harmless and causing no injury. This sort of thing really doesnt seem much more than horseplay. Has the resident complained that he found this demeaning? To the best of my knowledge no. Some people find this kind of thing arrousing or entertaining.

2 - "touching his buttocks" - if a male touches a female in this area without permission it would be seen as a problem, but it simply is different. Men and women are not the same and anyone who doesnt see that to me is living in some kind of PC fantasy world. If I hung up a topless calendar at work I'd expect to be sacked. The girls in the admin dept have a calendar of topless hunks in speedo's in their office - if I complained about that who here would not think that I was foolish? There ARE different standards which govern the way men and women interact. I dont mean to be insensitive... but having a 19 year old girl grab your butt is not sexual assault. Pure and simple it is not.... whether youre thirty or ninety.

3 - "Insering a finger in the rectum" - this is the only thing mentioned which COULD be considered as assault. But the question again is was this done against the man's will. Even though a resident in a care home may be infirm, it is quite hard to see that a 19 year old girl could physically overpower a man to the degree that she could shove a finger up his rear if he did not want her to. How did this situation arise? Why was the man not wearing trousers at the time? If she bundled the guy over and shoved a finger up his arse as he told her to stop - yes we would consider this assault... but is this what happened? To any of us find that a realistic scenario?

4 - "antagonizing a resident" - ie having an argument with him. This is clearly not a criminal matter.

5 - "dry humping a resident" - again the key consideration is did the guy object? Can we really believe that even an elderly man could be completely overpowered by a teenage girl?

6 - "hand over the mouth..." - If the resident was generlly screaming for help - we have no report of any resident being harmed of threatened... so presumably once she was gone he would have complained. There is no report that says this either - so my assumption was that she may have been covering an involuntary shout, or a cry of excitement... something of this nature.

__

If I made any arguments above in relation to alleged insults by a male perpatrator on a female victim - my arguments would be considered obscene and deeply offensive. But I can only say again that there are different standards. I hold that it is virtually impossible for a woman to sexually assault an adult male. Cased of physical assault by a female against a male can happen - but are incredibly rare - maybe 1 in 1000 cases of violence might be a female on a male - and I think that number is very generous. Maybe it would be 1 in 10,000.

These girls did abuse their power I feel, and did overstep the mark, and their actions were not appropriate.

But if we say a crime is committed, we have to say their is a victim.

There are no reports or residents or residents families complaining. There are no reports of threats or violence against the residents, and yet they did not complain still. There are no reports of any injuries suffered by the residents. The charges brought against the girls are all minor (suggesting that the prosecutor does not believe serious wrong doing has occured) - the fact is that this is only a news story because it piques the interest of people, a load of sex crazed teens in a nursing home...

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

SecretMethod70

Get educated or stop posting.

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/SAC/p...alViolence.PDF

Male Sexual Abuse Victims of Female Perpetrators: Society's Betrayal of Boys

EBSCOhost Connection: Social Cognitions About Adult Male Victims of Female Sexual Assault. (your library should be able to give you full access to the article)

http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/pubs/wrap/acssa_wrap2.pdf

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Frosstbyte

I'm not sure you have any idea what the term "legal consent" means, SF. People in a nursing home, especially an Alzheimer's nursing home, are probably very old, very frail and no longer remember who they are. Do you think if you brought over a contract to these people in which they signed away all their belongings to you it would be valid? Do you think if you had them sign a will you would get all their money?

No, you wouldn't, because people in that condition are legally incapable of giving consent, in the same way that a child is legally incapable of giving consent. You can ask a 7 year old all you want if they want you to stick your finger up their ass, and no matter what they say, you are still guilty of statutory rape. Exactly the same rules apply to someone who is insane or mentally incompetent. They could beg you to do it and love it being done, and it wouldn't matter.

From the story:

No one complained, because these people don't remember their own children. They are deranged, senile. Do you know what those words mean? Do you have any relatives with memory problems? You could literally bring my grandmother to tears and do horrible things to her and five minutes after you stopped, she wouldn't remember any of it, because she can't. And on the off chance your response to that is "well then no one was harmed because she can't remember anyway" I think you need to seriously think about what that says about your respect for an individual's personal dignity.

If the measure of a crime is the victim complaining, then no murder can ever be charged, no one raped using date rape drugs can press charges, and I can go to the coma ward of a hospital and rape and murder and mutilate with impunity and no one can do a damn thing to me. You said that there can't be a victim if the victim isn't complaining. That is the legal standard you just set, can you really mean that?

highthief

Strange, you might want to be fondled by teenage girls while lying on your death bed, but I'd warrant that many if not most would not want to be.

What they did was illegal, morally wrong, and should be punished strongly, regardless of their gender.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

Borla

Almost all of these crimes were committed against patience who suffered from dementia and/or Alzhiemer's disease. They weren't in a position to complain to anyone, nor is it likely their complaints would be understood or given merit. If you've ever been around a close family member or friend and watched them suffer the agonizing breakdown that occurs mentally when one suffers from Alzhiemer's you might not be so quick to call this treatment victimless.

__________________
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde!!!!

CinnamonGirl

Would you say the same thing if they weren't pretty?

__________________
"...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world."


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

Willravel

That's not necessary, Smeth. Let's not get heated over nothing.

highthief

Better question, would he say the same thing if it were teenage BOYS assaulting the same patients?

Strange has a slightly skewed view of justice and the feminine gender.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

SabrinaFair

Proving an "injury" is only a necessary element in a civil case. In criminal law, one only has to prove that the statutory elements were committed. If the residents did not consent (or were unable to consent) to said contact, then a sex crime was committed. The law does not impute consent based on gender or age. Even if it is reasonably certain that the patients WOULD have consented to the contact, if they were unable to do so, then it is still a crime.

__________________
"With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
-Desiderata

Amaras

What those girls did was wrong, and in my uneducated opinion, illegal.
I hope that they are punished to the full extent of law. They obviously thought being young
and cute trumps old and ill.
Wrong, just plain wrong. Too often in our society our values are skewed in that manner.
Hence SF expression of his point of view. Sadly, he's not alone.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

mrklixx

The parts bolded by me make it seem like you have never actually been to a convalescent facility. A good majority of the residents of these facilities can do little or nothing for themselves. This includes dressing, bathing, and using the restroom. That's the reason why I equated this to child molestation, because many residents are the equivalent of infants. And because of several issues including incontinence, many of these people's sole piece of "clothing" is a hospital gown.

Now to the "nobody complained" argument. These people are in an altered state of consciousness. They have a hard time discerning what is reality.

Let me ask you a question. Do you believe that it is ok and legal to do anything to an unconscious person as long as they tell you to stop, and as long as they don't tell anyone afterward?

Also, if you read the police report, the girls state hat most of the things they did were to make the residents "mad". If these were pleasant and/or consensual activities, why would the residents be angry about them?

__________________
This post is content. If you don't like it then you are not content. Or perhaps just incontinent.

This is not a link - Do not click here

I hate animated avatars.