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Old 11-17-2008, 11:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Myspace hoax/suicide trial: what are your thoughts?

Many of you are probably already aware of the Lori Drew trial. She's the mother who created a fake identity on Myspace which became the catalyst for 13 year-old Megan Meier's suicide. If you're not familiar, or want to read an update on the case, here is a CNN article:

MySpace hoax case about big issues, petty feud - CNN.com

MySpace hoax case about big issues, petty feud   click to show 

I'm kind of torn when it comes to this case. I think it sets a terrible precedent to prosecute someone for creating a false identity on the internet. That said, I do think someone should be held criminally liable in the suicide of Megan Meier. I originally thought that person should be Lori Drew, but in the article I quoted above it states that her assistant, Ashley Grills, is the person who actually sent the message that apparently led to her suicide. Unlike Lori Drew, Ashley Grills was not made aware of Megan's fragile mental condition. That said, considering Lori was told by Megan's mother about concerns for Megan's mental health, she should have known that Megan may not be able to handle such a misleading relationship on MySpace in the first place.

I don't know if there are any civil suits pending, though I do hope a wrongful death suit is in the works for all involved parties. I'm more interested in the criminal side of this, seeing as how the only way they've found to try and bring justice is by unreasonably manipulating a law intended to be used against hackers.

What are your thoughts on this? Is it reasonable to charge Lori Drew with conspiracy and accessing computers without authorization (for breaking MySpace's Terms of Service)? What are your suggestions to find balance between reasonable digital rights and justice regarding the real life consequences?
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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My opinion is fairly simple:

Why should somebody be held criminally liable for the *suicide* of Megan Meier?

"Instead, he said he would instruct the jurors that the case is about whether Drew violated the terms of service of the MySpace social networking site, not about whether she caused the suicide of Megan Meier."

The defense lawyer says, and I agree, that this case will never be understood as break of user agreement, but about the ensueing suicide...

This can only go wrong as far as I can see.



You give her a standard penalty somewhere around perjury/signing leases/signing bad cheques ---> The public's reaction will be outraged because a "murderer" got off so lightly.

You give her a severe punishment, and you're creating a weird precedent for further "Internet Law" trials.



Maybe invent a modern version of the pillory for these adults. Adults that really should have known better?

(hurray, I learned a new word today - pillory )
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Last edited by Nisses; 11-18-2008 at 04:42 AM..
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Unfortunatly this is a perfect example of how our current laws are not up to date at all with dealing with these new types of debacles.

I agree completly she should be punished with a hefty jail sentance, there is no excuse for causing this type of suffering on a person with explicit understanding of what the consiquences may be.

Hopefully they nail her to a wall, then draft some new legislation on the other side. Like you said, interesting legal hoohah that could emerge here.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm torn--while I think what this woman did is heinous, I'm not sure how I feel about the precedent this sets. The law is ill-equipped to handle "cyber crimes", and I'm not really comfortable with bending the laws to make them fit the crime. If we as a society feel the need to punish this sort of behavior, we need laws designed to prosecute it, ones that set out a clear actus reas and mens rea. Not everything that is "wrong" is a crime. (just as I don't believe everything that is a crime is wrong) So I feel until we have laws, we cannot hold people accountable for breaking them.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Suicide is terrible and regrettable, but she killed herself. The woman who harassed her is an ass, and probably should be ostracised for what she did do, but she is not responsible for the girl's predisposition to commit suicide. She probably would have been upset by something else, and done the same thing at a later date. There may have been nothing that could have been done to stop this.........

Her parents, knowing how fragile she was, probably should have been monitoring the situation more closely, but then again, maybe they were also clueless.

We can have more and more laws created to stop all bad behaviour, and we'll just get more and more sensitive to anything slightly negative, and we'll all be suicidal before too long. Quit molly-coddling kids, let them get cut and scraped, both physically and emotionally and they will grow up stronger.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Nisses: For the most part, I don't disagree. Using this law to prosecute Lori Drew sets an awful precedent on many levels.

It's true that Megan committed suicide, but there are a number of factors involved here:[*]Lori Drew was aware of Megan's fragile mental state (not to mention that young teenagers already have a fragile mental state due to the hormones raging in their bodies)[*]As an adult, it is reasonable to expect that Lori Drew should understand the possible consequences of her actions[*]It is clear that the suicide flowed directly from the MySpace charade.

To be honest, I'm still not quite sure why Lori Drew doesn't qualify for involuntary manslaughter charges. I suspect it's because Ashley Grills is the person who sent the final message.

Iliftrocks: Again, generally speaking I don't disagree. The point of diversion is where you say she's not responsible for Megan's predisposition to commit suicide. If she weren't already made aware of her fragile mental state, then that would be true, but Lori Drew was explicitly made aware of concerns for Megan's mental health, and as an adult it is reasonable to expect her to understand the potential consequences of her actions. Maybe Megan would have committed suicide at some other point anyway, but we don't know. All we know is that her suicide was directly encouraged by the actions of Lori Drew and Ashley Grills.

SabrinaFair: Yeah, I'm generally against the way this particular situation is shaping up, because using the law this way sets a very bad precedent. I do think involuntary manslaughter is an accurate charge, but the fact Ashley Grills sent the final message complicates the matter. I'm not sure if she was 18 at the time she sent it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'd say it's fairly well known that there are cases where a student has committed suicide in response to bullying, in the schoolground, yet their detractors were never attempted prosecution in such a fashion.

Last edited by Sensei Crap; 11-18-2008 at 03:23 PM..
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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In most cases, the bully is a minor who cannot be reasonably expected to understand the consequences of their actions. Moreover, in most cases, the bully has not been previously made aware that the victim is of a particularly fragile mental state.
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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That is true in some respects, having said that, bullies pick on the weaker whether physically or mentally inferior, to absolve them on that point is stupid. I will agree that Lori Drew et al, should have known better. That is not to say that "minors" necessarily don't, either they don't know of the implications and consequences, or just don't care.
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