skizziks

I have travelled extensively, been to most of the continents and I´m currently making my way through Central and South America. Everywhere I go I see a multitude of travelers from Europe and Asia and Canada, but comparitively few United Statesians. This depresses me greatly, for various reasons. Living in a foreign country opens your eyes to how the majority of the world lives and thinks, and gives you such a broader perspective on things, makes you well rounded, gives you the opportunity to network and make freinds around the world.

If I were king for a day, I would make travel to a foreign country (not Canada, it´s too close) mandatory between high school and college. You graduate highschool, then you MUST travel to a foreign country for three months prior to being allowed to start college or work. It is an education you can only get by doing it. No matter how many books you read about a place, a week in that place will teach you more.

I would fund this through some kind of trade agreement with other countries. Let the Americans live in your country for three months, they will spend thier money in your stores, they will learn about you and possibly take you into consideration when they do things like vote for people, etc. That and maybe 1% of all politician´s paychecks go to the Travel Fund. They supposedly work for "us," what better way to help the country?

Randerolf

I'm an American currently in the PRC and I too believe in the importance in travel. Though the of perceptions of other nations are shaped by the media, international perceptions depend on one-to-one exchange more than any type of government action of goodwill or insult. Thus, the importance of traveling and really getting to know and be known.

The chipping away of provincial mindsets and solipsism is a beautiful process. Have you been to Peru? I thought about going to Latin America to learn more Spanish, but decided that the future is here in the middle kingdom despite only knowing a phrase or two.

How am I paying for it? I worked my way through school and saved up my own money for travel. Now, I'm working while in Beijing.

Sadly, not everyone can afford travel and I don't mean in the monetary amount; they have entanglements at home like debts, jobs, obligations, and families. The cost of travel, for them, is just too high despite its benefits.

flat5

In summer there are a lot of USA people here (Amsterdam) for a little while.

shakran

I can think of a lot better ways, especially with us being $10,000,000,000,000 (that's trillion with a T) in debt, a crashed economy, and two wars going on, for government to spend money and time

Destrox

Pay for it and I'll travel.

Otherwise I have to keep to driving distances.

America may be great and all, but to go out of country cost too damn much. We (normal working class, not rich) just have too many expenses and I keep to the bare minimums.

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abaya

Skizziks, I'm in complete agreement with you. For a long time now, I have thought that it should be an absolute requirement for American high school students to spend one year abroad, or doing some kind of Peace Corps thing (hell, even AmeriCorps would be good, if they had to spend it in a place in the US that was an utterly different culture and in need of service, etc). Problem is, yeah... how to pay for it? But in an ideal world, it would be incredible, and would utterly change the future policies/directions of our country (I think).

On a less expensive note, I think it is absolutely shameful that Americans are not required to learn a second language starting in elementary school. We should be fluent in at least Spanish, maybe French as well, LOOONG before we get to high school... NOT starting in 9th grade, when the brain has already frozen over for languages! If we can't afford to send every student abroad, then at least we can afford to require language instruction at an earlier age. For a nation of our standing, we are so woefully behind the rest of the world on this issue (well, and many others, but this one particularly)... it's reprehensible.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
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Deltona Couple

While I agree that traveling abroad is an enlightening experience, and will help people become more broad in their knowledge of the world outside the US, making it a requirement or "law" is stepping over a little too far. Not every child in the US can afford to travel for one, but my main point is that the government would be stepping well out of bounds. Kinda like the idea that some people have that every memeber of the US should serve a minimum of 2 years in the military. While I agree with that idea as well, it encroaches in an area that the government has no business....our personal choices....

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Bill O'Rights

A lot of people do this for 2-4 years. It's called the U.S. Armed Forces. Of course, in my own 8 years, in the United States Air Force, all I managed to see was Wyoming and Nebraska. Go figure.

So...the government should throw its' citizens out into the big big world? Kinda like a parent sending the kids out to play? "Why don't you kids go to Nepal, and climb a mountain, or something?"

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

dlish

i agree with Deltona, but i think its essential that people travel abroad. i can understand peoples commitments, but if you do it at least when you are young, the kids usually live at home and dont have many debts, so it would be an ideal time to travel.

ive said it a few times, that travel opens your eyes up to the world. its a great experience and no text book, google search or google earth would compare to being there.

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Redjake

as long as someone else pays for it, great! only reason I haven't traveled is because it's so expensive.

abaya

No, ideally something more like a Peace Corps experience, but doesn't have to be in a developing country. Or hell, just study abroad for a semester. Something with a goal, with structure... whatever it takes to get them out and open their eyes to the wide world.

Heck, I'd even be happy with teaching anthropology at the high school level, but they don't offer it. ANYthing that exposes kids, in a structured way, to a world outside of their own. ALL high schools should require volunteering in other communities, not just the Honor Societies and other ass-kissing organizations (I say that as someone who was president of my HS's honor society). People just get so damn locked down into their own little worlds, their own languages, their own classes and ethnicities and religions. I want to see that change.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Bill O'Rights

Personaly, I find it reprehensible that American kids aren't even fluent in English.
That's why Bill jr. goes to private school.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

abaya

Well, sure. I agree with that... but that has more to do with the school system, teachers, parents reading at home/with the kids, etc etc. If we could sort that *minor* stuff out (haha) and get ourselves seriously organized, then adding another language would not be a problem for the kids themselves. It would in fact behoove them in every way that I can imagine.

It's not like our brains can't handle learning more than one language at the same time. The human brain (especially kids' brains) are capable of so much more than we give them credit for... America is truly one of the only nations of its standing that does not educate its children in another language. We have everything to gain from such a move.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Bill O'Rights

I feel like I'm arguing with you when, in fact, I'm not. Although I do get the "minor" pun, I don't view it as a minor problem. It's a bigger problem than people want to admit. I agree that other languages should be taught early on. I mentioned that Bill jr. is going to private school this year. He is learning Spanish this year (first grade). Yay. But, he is also learning to speak, and to write, English. That, and a hell of a lot more, were sorely lacking in his public school last year.

Enough of the threadjack. I hope that by the time he graduates from high school, that he will be able to travel abroad. Somewhere other than Iraq, Afghanistan, or whatever hotspot that we have by then. When (if) he does, he will know proper English, Spanish and, hopefully, French or German. Definately French. His mother is (was) fluent in French. She'll see that he at least knows enough to get by.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

abaya

Yes Bill, we agree. I just have a feisty tone sometimes, y'know.

It's a shame that your son did not get a satisfactory education in the public schools... I am sorry to hear that. I know that not all public schools are created equal--I am a strong believer in them, as I came up through their ranks with a great education--but it would not have been the case if I had lived just 30 miles north of my childhood home. Location determines too much. I'd like to believe that we won't send our kids to private schools, but I really have no idea.

Anyway, back to Americans traveling abroad.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Cynosure

Nowadays, most Americans – especially those with children – lack the money as well as the time off from work to travel abroad.

powerclown

I hear Canada is moving 100 miles to the north, 375 miles to the east. It might even be worth a visit after that.

ring

I know many people who live in the midwest, (and other places as well,)
who have never traveled outside of the state they live in,
or the county.

This country is large.
This country has many cultural differences,(flavors.) It has deserts, mountains,
wet places, salty water, fresh water, myriad combinations....all
within a few hundred miles of each other.

I was fortunate enough to have a mother who would pick up and move us kids
halfway/ the entire way across this place.

I wouldn't be who I am today if that had not happened.

Many languages are being spoken here.

I wish my fellow peoples,
would listen harder.

Vigilante

So you're willing to dole out for the millions on welfare to see south america etc, when some of the lower socioeconomic schools are full of kids that can't even speak normal english? Been to louisiana lately? LOL

I'd rather get them caught up, then they can afford their own travel when they have a decent job. Think about that.

Let's not forget that many people don't have the cash to buy trinkets and other tourist items all day, either. Gov't funded plane tickets, room and board, AND locally made gold necklaces? Sign me up...sheesh.

One more thing - you really think the ones that make the decisions will voluntarily decide to take a cut in pay so some ghetto kid can smoke weed in holland? Ha.

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-Winston Churchill

highthief

That's a tragedy of Shakespearian proportions.

Couldn't you just "borrow" a Hercules or something and take a trip to the Caribean for a weekend?

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Craven Morehead

If I'm not mistaken I believe workers in the US have fewer vacation days than European workers. If I lived in Europe, traveling from country to country would be similar to traveling to neighboring states here in the US. I've been fortunate to visit Japan, Austria, the Czech Republic, Canada, Mexico and Aruba, and each was extremely enlightening. However, so was Monument Valley, New York City, San Francisco, Yellowstone, Volcano National Park in Hawaii, the Grand Canyon and seeing a Shuttle lift off.

genuinegirly

There are hundreds of study abroad and exchange programs available for high school and college students. It is exceptionally popular (at least in California) for recent college grads to roam the world with a backpack and maybe a friend.

It is not uncommon for Americans to travel. They may not be traveling to the same places you choose, but my husband and I have run across a few too many young americans traveling in our travels. Honestly, it's kind of a pain to stay in a hostel with a bunch of other Americans. They're typically viewing their travel experience as a sort of Disneyland for adults. They party all night and come back to the hostel late and drunk and disorderly. They do not understand other languages, they don't attempt to be polite, they want everything for free. I endured nothing but constant complaining on multiple occasions when I attempted to carry on a conversation with other American young women.

I cannot encourage the concept of mandatory international travel. I'd much rather see Americans stay in America. Thanks.
Edit - for the record, my husband and I are American.

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snowy

Travel in general is enlightening; I've seen more of the United States of America than most people will ever see (26 states and counting, most of it by train or car!) and have been to Europe, where I visited the Netherlands (I didn't just see Amsterdam, by the way), Paris, and London. I wish I'd seen more, but I turned 18 on the trip and it was my first time away from home. I have no doubt that someday I will go back. I also want to go to Japan, the South Pacific, and New Zealand, but really that's just the beginning of the list.

And Canada may seem like it's very similar to the United States, skizziks, but there are some interesting differences if you spend enough time there. It's one of my favorite places to travel to as it's similar enough that I'm not totally uncomfortable, but just different enough to be fun.

I don't think the government should require us to travel, but I do think there are ways they can encourage the populace of the United States to step outside of their comfort zone, via service programs like the Peace Corps or requirements in university in regards to study abroad, and promotion of the Rotary's programs to send high school students overseas.

And Bill, I have to say that studying foreign language extensively in high school and college improved my knowledge of the English language, particularly in regards to grammar, so I think that encouraging dual-immersion classes could result in an improvement in literacy skills in both languages, not just the foreign one. Besides, given what we know about the brain, it is best to start as early as possible when teaching children languages; post-adolescence it becomes more difficult. Certainly, they'll still learn, but why not take advantage of the time when they're like little sponges for it?

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

ratbastid

I agree completely, but I'd wager that Chinese will be more useful than French for today's elementary school students. But Spanish, definitely.

Bill O'Rights

Yeah. You're probably right, there. But, 20 years ago, it would've been Japanese.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

laudanum

I would like to see mandatory travel, but there's no real way to pay for it.
What tangible benefits would allow politicians to fund such an idea?

At the very least, I wish the US had a cultural incentive to travel, like the Aussies (or the ones I've met traveling) feel about walkabout.

Travel is good, people can see that the rest of the world doesn't think:
"We're number two! Because America is number one!"

abaya

25 days a year minimum for every single worker in Iceland, here. And that's "low" for Europe. We traveled to six separate countries (all for at least a week or more) during our 18 months here so far.

I look forward to coming back to the US, but I'm not looking forward to this absolutely horrible concept of having 10-15 days off a year. Vacation time is a friggin' joke in the US.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

snowy

The United States is still hung up on the idea of "live to work" versus the European idea of "work to live."

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Baraka_Guru

I'm still grateful for my two weeks after spending too many years being educated while working part time. It's a North American thing and one of the reasons why I don't travel much. That and affordability.

I agree there should be a program for travel. Even if it were within the country. As I've mentioned in the passport thread, I have yet to see my own country in any reasonable capacity. That's a shame, I know. I don't even know what most of my fellow Canadians are like, let alone the people of the rest of the world.

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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abaya

About the cost thing. I'm just curious, how much do you guys (who haven't traveled much) think that it costs to fly somewhere internationally? Say, for a week... and let's say you can do it cheaply, like by couch-surfing (free accommodation) or through crashing at someone's house from TFP, etc.

I just want to know how much you actually think it costs to travel abroad--because I do think that most people's estimates are a little too high, most of the time.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Baraka_Guru

I don't know...$500 to $1,000?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Bill O'Rights

With very few exceptions (the woman that recommended that crappy chinese restaraunt in Winnipeg) your fellow Canadians are, by and large, a pretty cool bunch of people.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

telekinetic

I have a wife and infant. It's costing me $1000 to fly to Ohio for a week to stay with relatives, and that would be closer to $1500 if I had to stay in a motel 6 or something. I can't imagine doing a week in Europe for much less than two or three times that.

abaya

Not bad, though I would say it can often be on the lower end of that scale, at least in this season (not during summer). Flights to Iceland right now are about $400, which is amazing. And last I checked, flights to places like Mexico City were even cheaper than that. I know there are ups and downs in the industry, economy, timing, etc... but overall, if you really want to travel... put away $2-3 a day for a whole year and you've got enough for a decent trip some place outside the country. Not a fancy one by any means (no hotels, no huge meals), and not in the high season, but if done correctly, one can make a little bit of money go a long ways.

I guess, to me... travel is not that expensive, when compared to other things that one spends one's money on. We all have things that we choose to spend our money on--eating out, a new laptop, new clothes, car accessories, video games, even getting married!--but if one really, truly wants to make travel a priority (assuming one is not drowning in a massive pool of debt--in which case, I understand that paying it off is your utmost priority!), I think it's entirely possible to cut some corners on those other things and save up pretty quickly for a decent trip.

I asked the question because I know people who think that traveling internationally costs thousands upon thousands of dollars. It certainly CAN--but it doesn't have to. Similar to a wedding, actually. There's a certain minimum that it costs--and there's no upper limit on how much it's POSSIBLE to spend--but if the will is there, you can get by on a lot less than you thought, and still have an awesome time.
-----Added 4/11/2008 at 01 : 44 : 27-----
I just saw this post of yours--but basically I am talking about someone traveling just by themselves, not with family. Of course, every additional person jacks up the cost significantly (another reason that I am not having kids anytime soon, quite selfishly--because I am not done traveling yet).

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

skizziks

travel is not about buying trinkets and crap. Its about seeing how other people live and realizing how much we as Americans really have. The poorest American has more than some regular everyday people in other countries. I´m not talking about Europe either. And no, I don´t expect politicians to voluntarily take a pay cut, for ANY reason.

I´m sorry you didn´t quite understand the point of the thread. You must have gone to school in Louisiana.

roachboy

i think that a programme like that suggested in the op is a great idea.
i know---we can pay for it as one of the many beneficial outcomes of taking the military off its cold war standing, reducing the obscene amounts of money spent on weapons systems the only rationale for which was once the assumption that a soviet system was more or less symmetrical with the american.
that'd be a hell of a start.

you can't really tell how much good something like that would do---anything and everything that makes americans less parochial also makes them less insular and arrogant, often without realizing that they're often all 3. to understand what it means to be connected to the world, you have to experience something of it. to understand that there is a world and not just americans and everyone else, you need to get out.

there are any number of ways to implement this sort of thing.

i agree entirely with abaya on language training in something beyond english. this is a problem. for example, the only reason that the french healthcare system, which is FAR better than the english counterpart, is not part of the overall debate about alternative organizations of health care at the state level is, i think, because most of the documentation is in french.

the world is big and complicated and extraordinary. i've never understood why so many americans want to hide from it.

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it make you sick.

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skizziks

If you go back and read the original thread, I said between highschool and college. If you have a wife and infant before you graduate highschool, then perhaps traveling somewhere won´t help you.
-----Added 4/11/2008 at 02 : 11 : 12-----
Because we are more xenophobic than we like to admit.

abaya

Yeah, but it's easier to say that it's "too expensive."

I'm not saying that everyone here thinks that way--as I said, there are entirely valid reasons for it being too expensive (having a family is one, being in debt is another, etc)... and I understand that. But assuming someone who has a bit of savings, and is not yet tied down to too many things... there is really no reason to not travel. At least, as I see it.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Willravel

I adore traveling. I don't get out of the country often, but when I do, I delve into local culture as much as I can.

I'd like to start doing international business, not just vacation. I think it would make me better at what it is that I do.

Vigilante

Sometimes it's just not in the cards. I was married by 1st semester of college (no kids) and we talked of travel, but then we got tied up in college and our pets. Now we have too many to pawn off on the parents and (for now) no cash because the job market isn't really looking for mildly-trained IT technicians. Everyone wants engineers here in houston, or someone they know by word of mouth. It's really weird. Paying our car notes is hard enough, so saving for a trip is not feasible.

If we could travel though, I would love to go to brazil and possibly europe. Definitely brazil though. I need to learn portuguese hehe.

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We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-Winston Churchill