America should have mandatory travel
 

I have travelled extensively, been to most of the continents and I´m currently making my way through Central and South America. Everywhere I go I see a multitude of travelers from Europe and Asia and Canada, but comparitively few United Statesians. This depresses me greatly, for various reasons. Living in a foreign country opens your eyes to how the majority of the world lives and thinks, and gives you such a broader perspective on things, makes you well rounded, gives you the opportunity to network and make freinds around the world.

If I were king for a day, I would make travel to a foreign country (not Canada, it´s too close) mandatory between high school and college. You graduate highschool, then you MUST travel to a foreign country for three months prior to being allowed to start college or work. It is an education you can only get by doing it. No matter how many books you read about a place, a week in that place will teach you more.

I would fund this through some kind of trade agreement with other countries. Let the Americans live in your country for three months, they will spend thier money in your stores, they will learn about you and possibly take you into consideration when they do things like vote for people, etc. That and maybe 1% of all politician´s paychecks go to the Travel Fund. They supposedly work for "us," what better way to help the country?

I'm an American currently in the PRC and I too believe in the importance in travel. Though the of perceptions of other nations are shaped by the media, international perceptions depend on one-to-one exchange more than any type of government action of goodwill or insult. Thus, the importance of traveling and really getting to know and be known.

The chipping away of provincial mindsets and solipsism is a beautiful process. Have you been to Peru? I thought about going to Latin America to learn more Spanish, but decided that the future is here in the middle kingdom despite only knowing a phrase or two.

How am I paying for it? I worked my way through school and saved up my own money for travel. Now, I'm working while in Beijing.

Sadly, not everyone can afford travel and I don't mean in the monetary amount; they have entanglements at home like debts, jobs, obligations, and families. The cost of travel, for them, is just too high despite its benefits.

In summer there are a lot of USA people here (Amsterdam) for a little while.

I can think of a lot better ways, especially with us being $10,000,000,000,000 (that's trillion with a T) in debt, a crashed economy, and two wars going on, for government to spend money and time ;)

Pay for it and I'll travel.

Otherwise I have to keep to driving distances.

America may be great and all, but to go out of country cost too damn much. We (normal working class, not rich) just have too many expenses and I keep to the bare minimums.

Skizziks, I'm in complete agreement with you. For a long time now, I have thought that it should be an absolute requirement for American high school students to spend one year abroad, or doing some kind of Peace Corps thing (hell, even AmeriCorps would be good, if they had to spend it in a place in the US that was an utterly different culture and in need of service, etc). Problem is, yeah... how to pay for it? But in an ideal world, it would be incredible, and would utterly change the future policies/directions of our country (I think).

On a less expensive note, I think it is absolutely shameful that Americans are not required to learn a second language starting in elementary school. We should be fluent in at least Spanish, maybe French as well, LOOONG before we get to high school... NOT starting in 9th grade, when the brain has already frozen over for languages! If we can't afford to send every student abroad, then at least we can afford to require language instruction at an earlier age. For a nation of our standing, we are so woefully behind the rest of the world on this issue (well, and many others, but this one particularly)... it's reprehensible.

While I agree that traveling abroad is an enlightening experience, and will help people become more broad in their knowledge of the world outside the US, making it a requirement or "law" is stepping over a little too far. Not every child in the US can afford to travel for one, but my main point is that the government would be stepping well out of bounds. Kinda like the idea that some people have that every memeber of the US should serve a minimum of 2 years in the military. While I agree with that idea as well, it encroaches in an area that the government has no business....our personal choices....

A lot of people do this for 2-4 years. It's called the U.S. Armed Forces. Of course, in my own 8 years, in the United States Air Force, all I managed to see was Wyoming and Nebraska. Go figure.

So...the government should throw its' citizens out into the big big world? Kinda like a parent sending the kids out to play? "Why don't you kids go to Nepal, and climb a mountain, or something?"

i agree with Deltona, but i think its essential that people travel abroad. i can understand peoples commitments, but if you do it at least when you are young, the kids usually live at home and dont have many debts, so it would be an ideal time to travel.

ive said it a few times, that travel opens your eyes up to the world. its a great experience and no text book, google search or google earth would compare to being there.

as long as someone else pays for it, great! only reason I haven't traveled is because it's so expensive.

No, ideally something more like a Peace Corps experience, but doesn't have to be in a developing country. Or hell, just study abroad for a semester. Something with a goal, with structure... whatever it takes to get them out and open their eyes to the wide world.

Heck, I'd even be happy with teaching anthropology at the high school level, but they don't offer it. ANYthing that exposes kids, in a structured way, to a world outside of their own. ALL high schools should require volunteering in other communities, not just the Honor Societies and other ass-kissing organizations (I say that as someone who was president of my HS's honor society). People just get so damn locked down into their own little worlds, their own languages, their own classes and ethnicities and religions. I want to see that change.

Personaly, I find it reprehensible that American kids aren't even fluent in English. :no:
That's why Bill jr. goes to private school.

Well, sure. I agree with that... but that has more to do with the school system, teachers, parents reading at home/with the kids, etc etc. If we could sort that *minor* stuff out (haha) and get ourselves seriously organized, then adding another language would not be a problem for the kids themselves. It would in fact behoove them in every way that I can imagine.

It's not like our brains can't handle learning more than one language at the same time. The human brain (especially kids' brains) are capable of so much more than we give them credit for... America is truly one of the only nations of its standing that does not educate its children in another language. We have everything to gain from such a move.

I feel like I'm arguing with you when, in fact, I'm not. Although I do get the "minor" pun, I don't view it as a minor problem. It's a bigger problem than people want to admit. I agree that other languages should be taught early on. I mentioned that Bill jr. is going to private school this year. He is learning Spanish this year (first grade). Yay. But, he is also learning to speak, and to write, English. That, and a hell of a lot more, were sorely lacking in his public school last year.

Enough of the threadjack. I hope that by the time he graduates from high school, that he will be able to travel abroad. Somewhere other than Iraq, Afghanistan, or whatever hotspot that we have by then. When (if) he does, he will know proper English, Spanish and, hopefully, French or German. Definately French. His mother is (was) fluent in French. She'll see that he at least knows enough to get by.

Yes Bill, we agree. :) I just have a feisty tone sometimes, y'know.

It's a shame that your son did not get a satisfactory education in the public schools... I am sorry to hear that. I know that not all public schools are created equal--I am a strong believer in them, as I came up through their ranks with a great education--but it would not have been the case if I had lived just 30 miles north of my childhood home. Location determines too much. I'd like to believe that we won't send our kids to private schools, but I really have no idea.

Anyway, back to Americans traveling abroad.

Nowadays, most Americans – especially those with children – lack the money as well as the time off from work to travel abroad.

I hear Canada is moving 100 miles to the north, 375 miles to the east. It might even be worth a visit after that.

I know many people who live in the midwest, (and other places as well,)
who have never traveled outside of the state they live in,
or the county.

This country is large.
This country has many cultural differences,(flavors.) It has deserts, mountains,
wet places, salty water, fresh water, myriad combinations....all
within a few hundred miles of each other.

I was fortunate enough to have a mother who would pick up and move us kids
halfway/ the entire way across this place.

I wouldn't be who I am today if that had not happened.

Many languages are being spoken here.

I wish my fellow peoples,
would listen harder.

So you're willing to dole out for the millions on welfare to see south america etc, when some of the lower socioeconomic schools are full of kids that can't even speak normal english? Been to louisiana lately? LOL

I'd rather get them caught up, then they can afford their own travel when they have a decent job. Think about that.

Let's not forget that many people don't have the cash to buy trinkets and other tourist items all day, either. Gov't funded plane tickets, room and board, AND locally made gold necklaces? Sign me up...sheesh.

One more thing - you really think the ones that make the decisions will voluntarily decide to take a cut in pay so some ghetto kid can smoke weed in holland? Ha.

That's a tragedy of Shakespearian proportions.

Couldn't you just "borrow" a Hercules or something and take a trip to the Caribean for a weekend?

If I'm not mistaken I believe workers in the US have fewer vacation days than European workers. If I lived in Europe, traveling from country to country would be similar to traveling to neighboring states here in the US. I've been fortunate to visit Japan, Austria, the Czech Republic, Canada, Mexico and Aruba, and each was extremely enlightening. However, so was Monument Valley, New York City, San Francisco, Yellowstone, Volcano National Park in Hawaii, the Grand Canyon and seeing a Shuttle lift off.

There are hundreds of study abroad and exchange programs available for high school and college students. It is exceptionally popular (at least in California) for recent college grads to roam the world with a backpack and maybe a friend.

It is not uncommon for Americans to travel. They may not be traveling to the same places you choose, but my husband and I have run across a few too many young americans traveling in our travels. Honestly, it's kind of a pain to stay in a hostel with a bunch of other Americans. They're typically viewing their travel experience as a sort of Disneyland for adults. They party all night and come back to the hostel late and drunk and disorderly. They do not understand other languages, they don't attempt to be polite, they want everything for free. I endured nothing but constant complaining on multiple occasions when I attempted to carry on a conversation with other American young women.

I cannot encourage the concept of mandatory international travel. I'd much rather see Americans stay in America. Thanks.
Edit - for the record, my husband and I are American.

Travel in general is enlightening; I've seen more of the United States of America than most people will ever see (26 states and counting, most of it by train or car!) and have been to Europe, where I visited the Netherlands (I didn't just see Amsterdam, by the way), Paris, and London. I wish I'd seen more, but I turned 18 on the trip and it was my first time away from home. I have no doubt that someday I will go back. I also want to go to Japan, the South Pacific, and New Zealand, but really that's just the beginning of the list.

And Canada may seem like it's very similar to the United States, skizziks, but there are some interesting differences if you spend enough time there. It's one of my favorite places to travel to as it's similar enough that I'm not totally uncomfortable, but just different enough to be fun.

I don't think the government should require us to travel, but I do think there are ways they can encourage the populace of the United States to step outside of their comfort zone, via service programs like the Peace Corps or requirements in university in regards to study abroad, and promotion of the Rotary's programs to send high school students overseas.

And Bill, I have to say that studying foreign language extensively in high school and college improved my knowledge of the English language, particularly in regards to grammar, so I think that encouraging dual-immersion classes could result in an improvement in literacy skills in both languages, not just the foreign one. Besides, given what we know about the brain, it is best to start as early as possible when teaching children languages; post-adolescence it becomes more difficult. Certainly, they'll still learn, but why not take advantage of the time when they're like little sponges for it?

I agree completely, but I'd wager that Chinese will be more useful than French for today's elementary school students. But Spanish, definitely.

Yeah. You're probably right, there. But, 20 years ago, it would've been Japanese. :D

I would like to see mandatory travel, but there's no real way to pay for it.
What tangible benefits would allow politicians to fund such an idea?

At the very least, I wish the US had a cultural incentive to travel, like the Aussies (or the ones I've met traveling) feel about walkabout.

Travel is good, people can see that the rest of the world doesn't think:
"We're number two! Because America is number one!"

25 days a year minimum for every single worker in Iceland, here. And that's "low" for Europe. We traveled to six separate countries (all for at least a week or more) during our 18 months here so far.

I look forward to coming back to the US, but I'm not looking forward to this absolutely horrible concept of having 10-15 days off a year. Vacation time is a friggin' joke in the US.

The United States is still hung up on the idea of "live to work" versus the European idea of "work to live."

I'm still grateful for my two weeks after spending too many years being educated while working part time. It's a North American thing and one of the reasons why I don't travel much. That and affordability.

I agree there should be a program for travel. Even if it were within the country. As I've mentioned in the passport thread, I have yet to see my own country in any reasonable capacity. That's a shame, I know. I don't even know what most of my fellow Canadians are like, let alone the people of the rest of the world.

About the cost thing. I'm just curious, how much do you guys (who haven't traveled much) think that it costs to fly somewhere internationally? Say, for a week... and let's say you can do it cheaply, like by couch-surfing (free accommodation) or through crashing at someone's house from TFP, etc.

I just want to know how much you actually think it costs to travel abroad--because I do think that most people's estimates are a little too high, most of the time.

I don't know...$500 to $1,000?

With very few exceptions (the woman that recommended that crappy chinese restaraunt in Winnipeg) your fellow Canadians are, by and large, a pretty cool bunch of people.

I have a wife and infant. It's costing me $1000 to fly to Ohio for a week to stay with relatives, and that would be closer to $1500 if I had to stay in a motel 6 or something. I can't imagine doing a week in Europe for much less than two or three times that.

Not bad, though I would say it can often be on the lower end of that scale, at least in this season (not during summer). Flights to Iceland right now are about $400, which is amazing. And last I checked, flights to places like Mexico City were even cheaper than that. I know there are ups and downs in the industry, economy, timing, etc... but overall, if you really want to travel... put away $2-3 a day for a whole year and you've got enough for a decent trip some place outside the country. Not a fancy one by any means (no hotels, no huge meals), and not in the high season, but if done correctly, one can make a little bit of money go a long ways.

I guess, to me... travel is not that expensive, when compared to other things that one spends one's money on. We all have things that we choose to spend our money on--eating out, a new laptop, new clothes, car accessories, video games, even getting married!--but if one really, truly wants to make travel a priority (assuming one is not drowning in a massive pool of debt--in which case, I understand that paying it off is your utmost priority!), I think it's entirely possible to cut some corners on those other things and save up pretty quickly for a decent trip.

I asked the question because I know people who think that traveling internationally costs thousands upon thousands of dollars. It certainly CAN--but it doesn't have to. Similar to a wedding, actually. There's a certain minimum that it costs--and there's no upper limit on how much it's POSSIBLE to spend--but if the will is there, you can get by on a lot less than you thought, and still have an awesome time.
-----Added 4/11/2008 at 01 : 44 : 27-----
I just saw this post of yours--but basically I am talking about someone traveling just by themselves, not with family. Of course, every additional person jacks up the cost significantly (another reason that I am not having kids anytime soon, quite selfishly--because I am not done traveling yet).

travel is not about buying trinkets and crap. Its about seeing how other people live and realizing how much we as Americans really have. The poorest American has more than some regular everyday people in other countries. I´m not talking about Europe either. And no, I don´t expect politicians to voluntarily take a pay cut, for ANY reason.

I´m sorry you didn´t quite understand the point of the thread. You must have gone to school in Louisiana.

i think that a programme like that suggested in the op is a great idea.
i know---we can pay for it as one of the many beneficial outcomes of taking the military off its cold war standing, reducing the obscene amounts of money spent on weapons systems the only rationale for which was once the assumption that a soviet system was more or less symmetrical with the american.
that'd be a hell of a start.

you can't really tell how much good something like that would do---anything and everything that makes americans less parochial also makes them less insular and arrogant, often without realizing that they're often all 3. to understand what it means to be connected to the world, you have to experience something of it. to understand that there is a world and not just americans and everyone else, you need to get out.

there are any number of ways to implement this sort of thing.

i agree entirely with abaya on language training in something beyond english. this is a problem. for example, the only reason that the french healthcare system, which is FAR better than the english counterpart, is not part of the overall debate about alternative organizations of health care at the state level is, i think, because most of the documentation is in french.

the world is big and complicated and extraordinary. i've never understood why so many americans want to hide from it.

If you go back and read the original thread, I said between highschool and college. If you have a wife and infant before you graduate highschool, then perhaps traveling somewhere won´t help you.
-----Added 4/11/2008 at 02 : 11 : 12-----
Because we are more xenophobic than we like to admit.

Yeah, but it's easier to say that it's "too expensive."

I'm not saying that everyone here thinks that way--as I said, there are entirely valid reasons for it being too expensive (having a family is one, being in debt is another, etc)... and I understand that. But assuming someone who has a bit of savings, and is not yet tied down to too many things... there is really no reason to not travel. At least, as I see it. :)

I adore traveling. I don't get out of the country often, but when I do, I delve into local culture as much as I can.

I'd like to start doing international business, not just vacation. I think it would make me better at what it is that I do.

Sometimes it's just not in the cards. I was married by 1st semester of college (no kids) and we talked of travel, but then we got tied up in college and our pets. Now we have too many to pawn off on the parents and (for now) no cash because the job market isn't really looking for mildly-trained IT technicians. Everyone wants engineers here in houston, or someone they know by word of mouth. It's really weird. Paying our car notes is hard enough, so saving for a trip is not feasible.

If we could travel though, I would love to go to brazil and possibly europe. Definitely brazil though. I need to learn portuguese hehe.

[QUOTE=skizziks;2555166]travel is not about buying trinkets and crap. Its about seeing how other people live and realizing how much we as Americans really have. The poorest American has more than some regular everyday people in other countries. I´m not talking about Europe either. And no, I don´t expect politicians to voluntarily take a pay cut, for ANY reason. /QUOTE]

you sound a lot like me and why i travel so much.

I also forgot to mention the option of not going as a tourist, but as someone staying for an extended time and working. I know people who go teach English abroad for up to 1-2 years (e.g. in Japan, China), and everything gets paid for. It's a fantastic opportunity.

A friend of mine plans to go to France for a couple of months next year to work on an organic farm--she will actually get PAID to travel there, it's a pretty sweet deal. There are tons of similar opportunities for people who are in the right stage of life to take advantage of them.

Please don't forget about the peace corps. You're given room and board, food, and an opportunity to help a developing area become successful in a truly real way. My hope is that some day more people join the PC than join the military. They are agents of good will and cooperation.

Already mentioned twice, Will :) ... as well as AmeriCorps, which I think too few people seriously consider, as a domestic alternative to the PeaceCorps. Teach for America is also a fantastic program for getting out of our comfort zones (which is what we are really talking about here).

Oh man you're a dick sometimes. No, I didn't go to school in Louisiana, but I used to live close to it. Houston isn't that far away either. I agree that sometimes travel isn't about being a tourist, but if you got some kids that think red lobster is high-class dining, you think they'll be immersed in the culture when they go overseas? You think they'll go find a little hole in the wall diner to sample local cuisine, or will they go hit up a nightclub and get blitzed and not remember half the trip? What do you think? Knowing the people I grew up with, I know what they'd do, and it's not the ideological government-funded multicultural event you portray it to be.

I'm the stay-at-home kind of guy usually, don't go out much, don't care to. I prefer to examine the behavior of an insect running into a predator over taking in the bustling cityscape of humans I would see if I happened to look up. You have traveled alot, I have traveled little. In fact if I traveled, it would be more to observe the wildlife of the region than to experience the humans contained therein. I enjoy studying plant environments more than I do chatting with people that I barely know. Sometimes I even cut a conversation short so I can get some peace of mind. Fuck it, if you only live once, you might as well enjoy it. I spent most of my weekends in the freakin woods, so I could get away from the howling madness of the orphanage I spent my teenage years in. I got treed by a silent pack of dogs that thought of me as food, and literally covered in banana spiders a few times, but it was still more pleasant than dealing with a bunch of tards squirting God-knows-what out of improvised waterguns (shampoo bottles with a pinhole) and stabbing each other with scissors and pens. I mean that literally.

That said, just because you think something is best, doesn't mean I have to agree. I know some people live shitty lives, I can turn on the tube and see that, or I can drive downtown. Or I can think about sleeping on a bench myself in my younger years. I think of this as one of those classic examples of the privileged know everything. That is how I see you; privileged. That is no doubt how some see me as well. Maybe you aren't, who knows. Maybe you worked into the ability to travel the world, but it doesn't sound like it. Feel free to enlighten me on that. When you come in stating everyone is the US should be forced to travel, spend some cash, live a leisurely life for a few months and take in culture, you assume that is what everyone wants to do - take in culture, and what everyone can do - be at leisure. Personally, I could give a rat's ass about culture. I tolerate my own species because the women are hot and some guys are funny when you get them drunk....and I get paid to tolerate them in IT, but only barely.

But I suppose if I was forced to travel, I would go fishing in the amazon and collect some plants for my aquarium. I'd have to buy a few extra cornell drawers because I would FILL them with exotic insects. I'd probably have to devote a closet just to that. And I would ignore the culture going on several miles upstream. Gov't funded fishing trip. Sign me up.

It's good to remind people as often as possible. :thumbsup:

If I ever get out of here, I'm going to Kathmandu.

I missed out on an excellent trip to D.C. as a middle schooler precisely because my classmates were all D-bags who wouldn't have taken advantage of it properly and would have just used the situation as an opportunity to misbehave.

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.

come to iceland! not many people here! you might learn to like the world outside your front door! :D

I agree. And I think it should be mandatory for the government to give us an allowance or tax credit for taking a trip outside of the US every few years....I have only been to Canada a handful of times, never have had the time or money to get outside this continent and it's frustrating. I would love to travel.....someday.

Hehehehe, not enough bugs and tropical plants :D

you and bob seger
-----Added 4/11/2008 at 06 : 58 : 55-----
as far as being expensive -

1st class bus (with toilet, movies, air conditioning, stops along the way) from phoenix, az, to guadalajara - US$144

hostel - US$ 13 per night, less if you stay one month and less with a hostal membership card, so lets say about $350 for the month.

food - you can eat quite well for US 1.50 - US$5 per meal. $5 is eating an assload at a restaurant.

a flight to thailand is expensive, but food is about US$1.00 a meal (on the street, never ever got sick) and you can get an apartment for about US$300 a month.

in Bolivia, you can get a room for about 3 bucks a night, and food aint that much more expensive.

point is, travelling is NOT expensive at all, if you are a traveler and not a tourist. it is expensive if you want to "live like an american" while you are there, taking taxis instead of walking or taking the bus, eating at "nice" restaurants, staying at "nice" hotels. if you live like the people who actually live there do, it aint expensive. really. seeing as

Folks, let's be realistic.....
How about some good books (or maybe enforced practical literacy) and exposure to television
with shows like: National Geographic, Frontline, etcetera.....

I´m a dick quite often, but with a smile and no malicious intentions. This is what makes an interesting discussion.:)
-----Added 4/11/2008 at 07 : 02 : 27-----
I am realistic. One week in a foreign country will teach you more than one month of reading books and watching tv. Unless that was sarcasm, then yeah....

I'm with ya :thumbsup:

No sarcasm meant. I'm just thinking a lot of folks can't find Canada on a map.
So, show them a map. Then, if they read any # of different books, they will learn
about places and people outside of their immediate surroundings.
THEN maybe they can think about travelling. Nothing worse, in my experience,
than being in foreign city and seeing North Americans lined up in McDonald's,
loudly saying how different it is then back home. Before you ask, I see them
while passing by.....

THOSE folks need perhaps a little "edumecation" before they travel. Point is,
travel might be pointless for most as they are now constituted.

Fair enough?

Quite fair, and yeah, put that way, I´m with you. Some people will stubbornly go out of thier way to remain ignorant. I knew a guy who took his family to Guam, they ate at Mcdonalds, Denny´s, etc. No matter how hard he tried, his wife would NOT eat anything but "American" food. We didn´t like her all that much.

I'm always shocked when people tell me that they have never seen the ocean.

A friend once told me, "We do the things that we want to do." One the upside, getting a appreciation on your own country can be as inexpensive as visiting an ethnic foodstore/ neighborhood or talking with people from around the world on the Internet (TFP/ video chat/ forums). Americans are born into speaking the lingua franca of the world. We must take advantage of what you've got.

Great idea. Who's paying for my plane ticket?

I know people like that. They actually went to Italy and ate in American restaurants because the local restaurants didn't serve "real" Italian food.:no::no:

Imagine if those folks learned about the origins of "American" foods. Hamburgers come from Germany? :sad:

BULLSHIT!!! We invented the Hamburg-er. Next you will say Frankfurt-ers come from Germany as well.

Hamburgers, well, the name, originally comes from Hamburg steak. The word first appeared in English in 1884 and...
Hey are you fucking with me? I can't tell if you don't use emoticons:orly:.
I am Canadian, eh. I can't tell what you are aboot if you don't tell me. Heh.:lol:

Apple pie is English.

Americans should travel abroad to see where they truly come from. :)

Wow, 25 days minimum is alot more than we get here. Maybe more Americans would travel more if we had the time off work. I get 3 weeks, and that's high for here. Where I work it takes years to get a week, then another week, topping out at 3 weeks. My hubby gets no vacation where he works, and nobody else does, either. No matter how long they have worked there.

My three months between high school and college were spent working, saving money for college. As are the summer months between college years. Student loans/grants/scholarships didn't pay for it all; we were expected to make our own financial contributions as well. But that was back when you couldn't get a home loan without a sizeable down payment.

I think that most Americans don't even travel enough in our own country. My best friend from college has only been outside of his home state twice in the past 10 years!

The other thing that gets to me is the people who do travel and they spend all their time eating at fast food chains and drinking crappy beer in the hotel bar. I've found so many cool pubs and restaraunts just wandering around when I am in a place I've never been before. I've had great home cooked meals at corner cafes and I've seen plenty of unique things and met plenty of interesting people when I am traveling. You just need to get out of the hotel bar and explore.

The only touristy thing I do is collect shot glasses from all the places I go. Otherwise, I try to see it like a local.

yeah, I am totally joking. Sarcasm doesnt translate well without the voice inflection. Sorry bout that.

Not to threadjack, but...

What if we were required to to everything well intentioned people said we should be required do before finishing high school and college.....

The list is something like:

Mandatory volunteering during school. Some say full time during summer and part time during the school year.

Mandatory military service. What's a couple more years to an already 16 years of education?

Mandatory post college Peace Corps?

Mandatory travel.


Well, that's the short list. Questions are: Who is going to pay for all of this? How long is it going to be before a person can become a productive/producing member of our society?


In theory, I support the sentiments of most of the above, as far as churning out more well rounded people, but you're going to have to remove a lot of our freedom of choosing how we want to end up, and making other people pay for it, because I don't see a way to require people to pay for things that they are being forced to do. I'm sure others could come up with scads of reasons not to do any of them.

I know you weren't suggesting forcing people to do these things, but I'm a little wary of people saying things should be mandatory, because the politicians might try and make it so, you know, for our own good. Plus I can't afford travel, and I'm jealous

Oregon will require all high school students who wish to earn a diploma to complete a service learning component prior to graduation as of 2011; it's being phased in over the next several years. Two girls I work with at one of my jobs are student volunteers earning their service hours. The volunteer work allows them to get job experience but in a way that's more compatible with their school schedule than if they were working a regular job. They're fine with it; as they see it, if they volunteer a couple hours a week, every week, they'll have more than enough service hours by the time they graduate. So it's not only teaching kids the value of service, it's teaching them to plan ahead accordingly.

I was going to say, how does a volunteering requirement "cost" money, when in the end you are doing your community a service that it doesn't have to pay for? I mean sure, the program/administration will cost money, but in the long run it's actually very beneficial to society. It also helps get people into the habit of civil service, so that perhaps later in life they might come back to that and volunteer again... which continues to reap benefits for society.

Hmm, where do we get the money to conduct wars, btw? That $10bn a month sure is going to a good cause, isn't it. Bailing out banks is also pretty damn expensive. Wouldn't it be nice to spend that money on something more productive, like getting the next generation out and exposed to the world, bilingual or even trilingual, and therefore increasing their overally competitiveness in the job market (as well as just making them into more well-rounded people)? I'd much rather see my tax dollars spent on that instead of defense.

I agree that Americans need to actually learn and KNOW another language. How many have I met that took 4 years of Spanish, or French, and still can't string 4 words in that language together because all you needed to do to pass the course was show up. I find it sad, since I'm fairly sure that learning another language while you're growing up greatly develops your brain, and in the end I think you'll end up much more intelligent.
However, I'm French, and I don't think learning French should be one of the main choices. Spanish, definitely. But French? you can speak it in France, Quebec, and a few African countries, which, let's face it, most Americans will never go to (or care about).

That's why I think we need to get with the times, replace French as one of the main choices with Chinese languages, or something else more useful.

If High Schools provided an option for travel for a semester (half a school year), or even a 2 week trip, with a partnered international student exchange system (each kid goes to a family in a foreign country for two weeks, and then welcomes the other family's kid in their house for 2 weeks) , I think American high school graduates would end up way better and more aware of the world.
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I'm not sure of what exactly you mean by this, if you mean in terms of cost, or of culture difference. But if it's terms of culture, trust me, European countries vary much more from on to another than the US States do.
But I don't think you meant it that way, since you have travelled a good amount.




Sorry, I keep coming back to edit. I just wanted to add: if the gov't did indeed decide to make travel possible for say, two weeks, for high school students, how much would it really cost? Would it not be possible for schools to have fundraisers for this purpose? And if the government chartered planes for students, without going through companies, or used government planes, wouldn't that save money? Anyone with a better grasp on expenses and economy than me(so basically, anyone at all) could maybe do the math, and prove me either right or wrong, but I suspect if it was well planned, it wouldn't cost that much.

That would be me--I took 3 years of Spanish, was a very good student, and can string together a few sentences now (12 years later) when I'm in Spain, but otherwise all that investment went to waste because I *never* had to speak it out loud, except for when called on in class. If I had been obligated to spend even a couple of weeks or a month in Mexico, especially in a rural area (not Cabo or something else like that), it would have done a world of good for my language practice/retention.

The only time when I actually became fluent in other languages was when I had to live in the country for an extended period of time, in a total immersion situation (Icelandic), or at least studying it intensively in a structured course, hearing it at home, and then using it almost daily in my work (Thai). Those are the two best things to come out of my degree in anthropology so far--improving my heritage languages to the point where I am fairly comfortable conducting semi-complex conversations. I only wish that I had been forced to study these languages much, much earlier, so that I could be truly fluent.

I don't know, I still think French is quite useful (especially as a base language, for the other Romance languages)... it is the second language in Lebanon, my husband's country, and I wish I could speak it so that I could communicate better with my in-laws. It's also spoken in parts of SE Asia, which would be handy when traveling around there. But I see what you mean... maybe Chinese or Arabic would be a better choice.

I'm shooting to pick up French and Arabic next, as those are my husband's languages and it would make a world of difference when talking with his family. We both feel very strongly about raising our kids at least bilingually, trilingually if we can get away with it, or even more if we end up living abroad for periods in the future. The more languages the better, I say... the human brain can handle so much more than we'd like to think, if we just feed it properly. :)

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The PC and AC are not a given any more. I know- I tried. There's a couple university programs out there that you can "pay" to volunteer your time. Probably not a bad way for someone trying to build a resume, if they have the cash. Personally I'm not involved in building anything anymore and am not willing to pay to volunteer my time.

But travel doesn't have to be expensive. Especially not right now. Hotels, good hotels are discounting their rates almost daily. I just spent a total of 5 nights at the Hyatt in Cancun for $54 a night, two while waiting for a flight out and three doing some diving and decompressing after an emergency trip home. It's a very, very nice property. Nice pool, waterfall in the center, swim up bar etc... Stunning views from the rooms. Their "rack" rate was $250 a night last fall/winter. So, 5 nights at the Hyatt on the beach (what's left of it) in Cancun for less then $300. I could have easily found a place in town for $20 a night. The view wouldn't have been as nice but it would have been clean, friendly and safe. Most nights I took the bus (.65) downtown to a restaurant the locals eat at and had dinner for less then $4, beer or drinks were $1. One night, first night in town, I went to a popular night spot to watch the World Series. I left after ordering my second beer and finding out they were 9.95 a beer. It was a large beer- 22oz, and it was cold. But I like the ones down town for a buck much better.

From my home here in the northern Yucatan I can get a 1st class bus ticket from here to Costa Rica for roughly $90. Don't think Greyhound, think more like British Air with wheels. All of Latin American can be done like this, most of Asia too. I just spoke with an friend who recently spent two weeks very close to Bali for $8 a night. I think he said he spent less then $100 on food for the entire trip. I didn't ask about drinks, knowing him his bar tab was much closer to his airfare then his hotel. I've heard Eastern Europe is inexpensive as well. I've never been, just heard.

Bottom line if you want to travel you probably could travel. Likely for what it costs to stay home, or less. Do a little research, go a little native. I think one thing that stops many in the US from doing this is the attitude of fear. Regardless of what that talking box in/on your entertainment center is telling you the rest of the world is not out to steal your wallet, kill you and dump you in the nearest ditch. Again do some research, use your brain a little and you'll be fine. There's a lot places in Central America, Asia, Africa and Europe I go to in a heart beat. At the same time I wouldn't care to spend much time in parts of several inner, major US cities. I'd go. I'd go just about anywhere. I'd just honestly feel safer in downtown Bogotá, Columbia. My 72 yr. old lady friend just returned. She went by herself (goes almost everywhere by herself) came back with lovely photos and fantastic stories.