Teachers aren't allowed to wear political buttons in classrooms - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 10-18-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

View: Judge Says No to Teachers’ Campaign Buttons, but Yes to Certain Politicking
Source: Nytimes
posted with the TFP thread generator

Judge Says No to Teachers’ Campaign Buttons, but Yes to Certain Politicking
October 18, 2008
Judge Says No to Teachers’ Campaign Buttons, but Yes to Certain Politicking
By JAVIER C. HERNANDEZ
A federal judge on Friday upheld New York City’s policy prohibiting public school teachers from wearing political buttons in the classroom, but said the teachers could place campaign material into colleagues’ mailboxes and hang posters on bulletin boards maintained by their union, as long as they were in areas off-limits to students.

The split decision came after the union, the United Federation of Teachers, sued over a city rule that requires teachers to remain neutral about politics while on duty to avoid any sense of pressure among students to echo their views. The union, which has endorsed Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic nominee for president, argued that the longstanding regulation had never been enforced and that it curtailed teachers’ right of free speech.

Judge Lewis A. Kaplan of Federal District Court in Manhattan said that it should be up to individual school districts to determine whether buttons in the classroom interfered with learning. He cautioned, however, that “school officials may not take a sledgehammer to freedom of expression and then avoid all scrutiny by invoking alleged professional judgment.”

The judge said that while a majority of students would probably understand that a button represented a teacher’s personal view, there would be “inevitable misperceptions on the part of a minority.”

Ann Forte, a spokeswoman for the Department of Education, said, “We won on the issue that was most paramount to us,” and she called the mailbox and bulletin board rulings “secondary issues.”

Norman Siegel, the civil liberties lawyer representing the teachers’ union, said that the union was pleased about Judge Kaplan’s recognition of some First Amendment rights for teachers and that it would continue to push for the right to wear buttons.

There have been conflicting court rulings over how far the government can go in regulating what teachers say in the classroom ever since the Supreme Court’s Tinker case, four decades ago, which proclaimed that neither teachers nor students “shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.”

A New York court in 1972 sided with a teacher who was suspended for wearing an armband in protest against the Vietnam war, saying that the band did not interfere with educational interests. In California, a court upheld a ban on buttons in San Diego schools in 1996.

Schoolchildren have historically been recognized as a distinctly vulnerable group, and schools have enjoyed such paternalistic powers as requiring school uniforms. Courts generally see teachers as role models given extraordinary trust and holding a special influence over their students.

The government, like any business, has the authority to tell its employees what to do so that it can continue to operate effectively. A teacher cannot spend each English period talking about baseball, or each physics class teaching false scientific theories.

The city argued that when a teacher wears a political button in the classroom, it creates an environment of intimidation and hostility toward students who do not share that view. The union, by contrast, argued that students would be able to distinguish between personal and institutional views.

Samuel Issacharoff, a professor of law at New York University, said: “The line we seek to draw is that individuals who are public employees retain the rights of full citizenship in society and do not lose them as a result of being state employees. On the other hand, they can’t use their state employment to accentuate the power of their political views. That’s the tension.”

That tension has been the subject of court cases in several states. The University of Illinois recently came under fire for urging its employees to refrain from attending political rallies and from displaying campaign bumper stickers on campus. It has since reversed course.

Part of the trouble in arriving at clear legal conclusions is the inevitable gray area that emerges when considering teachers’ roles as instructor and individual. Should teachers be allowed to write letters to the editor and publicly back a candidate? Should they be able to wear buttons while walking from their classroom to the car?

Last week, the unresolved nuances were on display at Middle School 61 in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, where an oversize portrait of Mr. Obama that had been hanging near the entrance of the school was taken down under pressure from the Department of Education. The banner showed the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and other black luminaries looking down on the man who could become the nation’s first black president.

“It only gave images of hope,” said Asher Rison, a teacher at the school. “It wasn’t about politics.”

The Department of Education disagreed, saying that whatever the intent, the banner amounted to political favoritism prohibited under the department’s rules.

At schools across the city this week, the fuzzy free-speech questions were reflected in conversations with students, parents and teachers.

At Community School 134 in the Bronx, Ken Chanko, a teacher of writing who wore a small Obama button on his jacket as he left school on Thursday, said that such miniature adornments seemed acceptable, but that large posters should not be permitted. “I think there is a fine line,” he said. “I think you can overreact from either perspective.”

Keyshawn Baker, 11, who graduated from the school in June and now attends Bronx Latin School, said that a teacher’s views displayed on clothing would not affect him. “I have my personal opinion about who I should support,” he said.

At Middle School 61, where the Obama banner was hung, David Rampersad, a Verizon field technician whose 11-year-old daughter attends the school, said that students “should be exposed to politics” but that “they might feel pressure to swing a certain way.”

“They’re too young for this pressure,” he added. “They need to be focused on whatever they are learning in school.”

I have a very basic feeling about this, until the students are doing well in all subjects, everything else takes a back seat. So long as math, english, social studies, and the rest of the curriculum are falling behind, everything else is unimportant.

I do think that the judge was correct in barring teachers from wearing buttons. If the teachers are asked and engaged in conversation with students, I'm all for those kinds of teachable moments, but to have a button is no different than a student wearing some sort of slogan which I believe is disallowed in most schools.

What do you think?

Vigilante · 10-18-2008, 10:46 PM

I agree. Teachers are role models, and as such they could be seen as pushing a student/class into one form of view over another. If I had a kid, I wouldn't want him/her coming home and spouting Obama crap to me because their teacher said so. Likewise if I was voting Obama, I still wouldn't want that to happen. It's not just what I want to hear, but the whole concept. Stick to teaching. The exception might be gov't class, but then I think the teacher should keep the discussion unbiased. That doesn't happen until high school anyways, and by then I think touching on the subject of candidates and what to look for are good lessons to be learned.

mixedsubstance · 10-18-2008, 10:59 PM

I honestly think that they shouldn't wear the buttons (not to necessarily 'not influence children who don't care) but because if kids can't wear slogans on their apparel, then teacher's can't either.

It's more of the 'talking to kids' about it that bothers me. Sure, informing them of the TRUTH only- as in who the candidates are, discuss in easy-to-understand terms on how politics and voting works and why it matters, but in no way should teachers say why they are voting for a certain candidate or bash the other, etc. To me, it's a touchy subject.

Jetée · 10-18-2008, 11:08 PM

This doesn't seem like news at all; a previous law was upheld. So what? Is it because of the stipulations the judge added?

Yeah, politicking towards the younger generation is bad, so are our rights to opinions whilst in a learning environment. Not much seems to have changed at all.

Quote:

Last week, the unresolved nuances were on display at Middle School 61 in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, where an oversize portrait of Mr. Obama that had been hanging near the entrance of the school was taken down under pressure from the Department of Education. The banner showed the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and other black luminaries looking down on the man who could become the nation’s first black president.

“It only gave images of hope,” said Asher Rison, a teacher at the school. “It wasn’t about politics.”

The Department of Education disagreed, saying that whatever the intent, the banner amounted to political favoritism prohibited under the department’s rules.

This seems to be at the heart and spark of the debate to me, more so than the "button billings". The teacher was indeed mistaken and out of place to assume that his/her (I don't what gender the name 'Asher' is usually attributed to, sorry) views on the Obama campaign would offer in the future--and the idea that it offers hope to some can equally instill disdain and reactionary fears of losing our once-proud American identity in others. The school and its staff, even under government institution, are certainly not the place nor people to issue a rallying cry for certain ideals/parties. Teachers as a whole should merely be the catalyst for insightful and thought-provoking philosophies that are developed within the core of every individual student and their respective views on society; it shouldn't have to deal with educators rejecting free-form thinking in the student atmosphere by pushing established governmental idols. It doesn't make sense the term "teaching" in such a scenario.

sadistikdreams · 10-19-2008, 04:34 AM

Are you serious?

That's bullshit. I mean, wearing a button?

Think about it. A button is usually just an inch in diameter.

As long as the teacher isn't like "VOTE FOR THIS PERSON", I think wearing a fucking BUTTON would be okay.

Maybe not a teeshirt, but a button? Come on.

mcgeedo · 10-19-2008, 05:17 AM

sadistikdreams, would you mind very much if I asked you how old you are, approximately?

ratbastid · 10-19-2008, 05:55 AM

Seems wise to keep education and politics separate. I want the education system to train people to think, not to tell them what to think.

Destrox · 10-19-2008, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Seems wise to keep education and politics separate. I want the education system to train people to think, not to tell them what to think.

If that would only happen for another part or our counties Political system and Religion....

As for the topic, pretty much non-news as it should be common sense.

Rekna · 10-19-2008, 06:23 AM

I don't see a problem with this. This should be enforced on all public (non-political) offices. Can you imagine if the police put political paraphernalia on their car or a judge on his gavel?

sadistikdreams · 10-19-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgeedo

sadistikdreams, would you mind very much if I asked you how old you are, approximately?

Approximately? 21. I know, I'm sure most of the people opposed to BUTTONS are old enough to have kids in school. I guess I just don't see the problem.

snowy · 10-19-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I do think that the judge was correct in barring teachers from wearing buttons. If the teachers are asked and engaged in conversation with students, I'm all for those kinds of teachable moments, but to have a button is no different than a student wearing some sort of slogan which I believe is disallowed in most schools.

What do you think?

Students around these parts are allowed to wear political t-shirts. I had several that got heavy rotation during election season. The only rule is that if your school is a polling place, you cannot wear your t-shirt within x number of feet from the polling place, so it's best to just not wear it on Election Day. Otherwise, it's fair game. I also wore a couple of Planned Parenthood t-shirts in regards to abortion rights during my high school days.

But I believe that teachers should set politics aside when it comes to the classroom. Growing up, political signs were always my mom's signs--as an educator, Dad wouldn't advertise his politics. He believed it got in the way of doing what he was there to do--help kids learn.

Viking1064 · 10-19-2008, 05:38 PM

I'm a teacher. I am in my classroom to make sure the kids learn the curriculum, not know my political or any other personal views.

inBOIL · 10-19-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadistikdreams

Maybe not a teeshirt, but a button? Come on.

Why is one inappropriate but not the other?

Halx · 10-19-2008, 06:12 PM

I agree with this. In school, my teachers openly informed us that they were not allowed to reveal their political affiliations.

mcgeedo · 10-19-2008, 07:55 PM

"Why is one inappropriate but not the other?"

I was curious about the same thing, and why the size of the button is important.

Catdaddy33 · 10-20-2008, 03:48 AM

I agree as well, my wife is a middle school librarian/teacher and even if asked she states that how she votes is her business.

roachboy · 10-20-2008, 04:33 AM

when i teach, i am careful about this.

i don't think it helps anything to operate from an explicit political position--so while i make it clear in general where i'm coming from (because it puts the students in a position to be critical about the information that i am transmitting, to make their own readings of the material) i don't typically have direct discussions about stuff like presidential candidates unless the students decide that they want to have that discussion.

if that happens, i am clear about where i stand, but am more interested in questions than statements. i don't have any problem pushing students to articulate and defend where they're at.

but teaching seems to me more about getting students to think for themselves and helping them get the skills required to do that.
so i'm quite different in my approach than i am here.

that said, i don't believe in value-neutrality--i think the political predispositions folk bring to the table surface even if they're pretending they don't. and if that's not explicit, not something that students can go after as a problem, they you're telling them what to think, that they have to agree with you, even as you're pretending to yourself that you're doing the opposite.

so it's a balancing act the nature of which runs way beyond whether you do or don'twear a button.

mcgeedo · 10-20-2008, 05:10 AM

"I guess I just don't see the problem."

No problem as long as it's an Obama button? What about a Falwell button? Or an NRA button? Or a NAMBLA button?

Daniel_ · 10-20-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inBOIL

Why is one inappropriate but not the other?

Bingo. Give the man a toffee apple.

The point is not about DEGREE, but is about EXISTENCE of the political influence.

Teachers are there to educate students in facts and issues pursuant to completion of the syllabus, NOT to support a political agenda.

To say "it's only a small badge" is like saying "I only had one drink" or "I only said one swearword".

Whilst politics has its place in certain learning areas, campaigning never should.

FoolThemAll · 10-20-2008, 06:44 PM

Visible politics are pretty much banned in my (WA government) workplace. Unless you're the union, for which membership dues are mandatory - then you have free reign.

Either position wouldn't bother me, really. The mixed standard kinda irks me.

pinal · 03-14-2011, 12:59 AM

This is extremely interesting. Excellent posting. It could also be the way. I would hope to get more here.

jewels · 03-14-2011, 12:45 PM

This is a 3-year old thread, but I'll bite.

No buttons, no tee shirts for teachers.

The small Florida town I lived in last had more than one teacher that made their political affiliations known in the classroom setting to their students during the campaign phase of the last election. I knew what the politics were in the area, but didn't expect them to spout their opinions to my high schoolers, some even spouting "facts" to further their platforms.

No no no no.

boink · 03-17-2011, 08:08 PM

I think so long as politics are taught in an unbiased way, teachers should be allowed to display some personal interest and opinion in their civic role in society.

hopefully a teacher would be able to represent the truth and facts and encourage students learn and think for themselves.

my experience was, those particular high school teachers who would have thought these subjects were worthless communicators. I'll also admit that during high school, I could give a shit about politics, so it would hardly matter anyway.

I feel like it's a teachers job to get kids interested and thinking, if I had a kid come home wanting to debate me on stuff like politics, hey that's pretty cool, I mean it's better than not coming home and out there smoking his buddies grandparents crushed up pharmaceuticals and stealing cars, ya know ?

it's ok for a young person to have different views than their parents, even though they might not like it.

Willravel · 03-17-2011, 09:43 PM

Let's tackle creationism and blatant historical revisionism in public schools before we move on to buttons.

Priorities, folks.

bagatelle · 03-18-2011, 12:54 AM

I like Boink's view point.

What I think about politics, is that not any one political movement is completely right - even though I would give my support to one system. Politics is negotiating and compromising.

If the teacher is debating his views and lets the students stand behind their views, there's nothing wrong, when it's openly done and the teacher is not forcing his views on students.

Apathy is worse than politics.

LordEden · 03-18-2011, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Let's tackle creationism and blatant historical revisionism in public schools before we move on to buttons.

Priorities, folks.

This. Let's clean up the "eductation" we are spewing to kids now-a-days before we start sharing political views in the classroom.

If you are teaching my kid that a Christian god created the world in 7 days and all those guys/gals in white coats are wrong, they have no right to tell anyone who they are voting for in the next election.

jewels · 03-18-2011, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boink

my experience was, those particular high school teachers who would have thought these subjects were worthless communicators.

?

Quote:

I feel like it's a teachers job to get kids interested and thinking, if I had a kid come home wanting to debate me on stuff like politics, hey that's pretty cool, I mean it's better than not coming home and out there smoking his buddies grandparents crushed up pharmaceuticals and stealing cars, ya know ?

it's ok for a young person to have different views than their parents, even though they might not like it.

Yes, it is a teacher's job to get their students interested. If the button says, "X or Y, let's talk" that would be different. Campaigning on the job is not appropriate, nor is it the same as political debate.

I don't think any parent wants to control their child's political views. Parents of teens love to debate with their kids; I've done it with all three of mine.

flstf · 03-18-2011, 09:00 AM

I don't see a problem with the buttons. The kids wiil most likely take the opposite position of the teachers anyway. I guess they could use reverse psychology on them though.

roachboy · 03-18-2011, 09:15 AM

interesting. it's not ok for teachers to wear political buttons, but it is ok for conservative newspaper columnists to hound a university provost into resigning...

Flap Over 'Marxist' Views Leads an Appointed Provost to Withdraw - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education

Quote:

To prove that Mr. Chandler had "swallowed Marxist theory hook, line, and sinker," the columnists pointed to several excerpts, including this statement: "An asymmetric distribution of resources guarantees high levels of competition, greed, and violence. These three outcomes are important explicit goals of capitalism."

say: "capitalism is grand." say it! what's the problem if you're not a commie?

great stuff.

Baraka_Guru · 03-18-2011, 09:24 AM

The average American's aversion—if not outrage—towards anything left of centre-right would be funny if it weren't so dangerous.

They can elect a black man as president, but they can't elect a leftist.

Strange Famous · 03-18-2011, 11:23 AM

Its funny how the Political right can be so strongly Christian on the whole, and yet reject the social and political consequences of Christianity so thoroughly.

Should teachers be apolitical? I dont think they can be if they give a shit about what they are teaching. They just should admit their bias and give the kids access to other points of view.

Some of my best times at school were long arguments/debates with my Labour Party member sociology teacher (I was of course a communist and considered his position as no better than that of a capitalist bootlick and apologist of the master class...); refusing to complete my Mock A Level and instead writing an essay about the "fallacy of supply and demand"... from that I learned that while I might or might not have a point, it wouldnt hurt the capitalists much if I failed my Economics A Level when I had to take the real one (not that I would have done it in a real exam anyway... I think)

I find it incredibly depressing to hear some people here say school should be about learning facts only. That to me is a limited and limiting view. The social, political, and emotional development of the children is just as important. I have no issue with any teacher having any political bias as long as he or she is prepared to be challenged and challenge back.

StanT · 03-18-2011, 11:32 AM

Politics in a social studies class? Go for it, I'd go out of my way to have liberal minded students defend a conservative position and do the same for conservative students.

Politics in math class? Not a chance.

jewels · 03-18-2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

I find it incredibly depressing to hear some people here say school should be about learning facts only. That to me is a limited and limiting view. The social, political, and emotional development of the children is just as important. I have no issue with any teacher having any political bias as long as he or she is prepared to be challenged and challenge back.

I agree. School is for learning ideas and broadening concepts, too.

But the school or a teacher's viewpoints are often inflicted on these kids.

My daughter has a regular column on her high school's newspaper. We'd been waiting for the funding to come through so the first issue could finally be printed. Last month, my daughter brought me the periodical and told me that they weren't allowed to distribute it in the school. Apparently, one of the kids wrote about bullying and teen suicides, including information about the group F*ck H8. The Principal was backed by the School Board in his decision to withhold this from the students and their parents. I wrote a letter to the Principal, called the school, emailed the School Board and my daughter's Journalism class circulated a petition, all to deaf ears. It was supposedly about the use of a partial four-letter word. Really??

And no one wore a button.

Strange Famous · 03-18-2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanT

Politics in a social studies class? Go for it, I'd go out of my way to have liberal minded students defend a conservative position and do the same for conservative students.

Politics in math class? Not a chance.

Maths and science can certainly be political... look at Galileo. Look at the continued rejection of Darwinism by some political classes.

I myself think that Darwinism does not provide the telling answers to understanding human life, but to say that it should not be taught is to me ridiculuous. Just as much as to not teach people about the major religious/spiritual views of the world while in school.

I do not consider that Christian parents should have (for example) the right to prevent their children learning about Islam, or dinosaurs.

Nothing at all exists in vacuum. If a mathematics class is to be reduced purely to learning equations I find this limited and limiting still, when the context of these theories and their creation is ignored.

10-18-2008, 10:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
Vigilante Broken Arrow Location: US	I agree. Teachers are role models, and as such they could be seen as pushing a student/class into one form of view over another. If I had a kid, I wouldn't want him/her coming home and spouting Obama crap to me because their teacher said so. Likewise if I was voting Obama, I still wouldn't want that to happen. It's not just what I want to hear, but the whole concept. Stick to teaching. The exception might be gov't class, but then I think the teacher should keep the discussion unbiased. That doesn't happen until high school anyways, and by then I think touching on the subject of candidates and what to look for are good lessons to be learned. __________________ We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill

10-18-2008, 10:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
mixedsubstance Crazy Location: Where the wild things are.	I honestly think that they shouldn't wear the buttons (not to necessarily 'not influence children who don't care) but because if kids can't wear slogans on their apparel, then teacher's can't either. It's more of the 'talking to kids' about it that bothers me. Sure, informing them of the TRUTH only- as in who the candidates are, discuss in easy-to-understand terms on how politics and voting works and why it matters, but in no way should teachers say why they are voting for a certain candidate or bash the other, etc. To me, it's a touchy subject. __________________ Well, isn't that just kick-you-in-the-crotch, spit-on-your-neck fantastic?!? Without energy, there would be nothing.

10-19-2008, 04:34 AM	#5 (permalink)
sadistikdreams lonely rolling star Location: Seattle.	Are you serious? That's bullshit. I mean, wearing a button? Think about it. A button is usually just an inch in diameter. As long as the teacher isn't like "VOTE FOR THIS PERSON", I think wearing a fucking BUTTON would be okay. Maybe not a teeshirt, but a button? Come on. __________________ "Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." -Lin Yutang hearts, by d.a.

10-19-2008, 06:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I agree with this. In school, my teachers openly informed us that they were not allowed to reveal their political affiliations. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

10-20-2008, 04:33 AM	#17 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	when i teach, i am careful about this. i don't think it helps anything to operate from an explicit political position--so while i make it clear in general where i'm coming from (because it puts the students in a position to be critical about the information that i am transmitting, to make their own readings of the material) i don't typically have direct discussions about stuff like presidential candidates unless the students decide that they want to have that discussion. if that happens, i am clear about where i stand, but am more interested in questions than statements. i don't have any problem pushing students to articulate and defend where they're at. but teaching seems to me more about getting students to think for themselves and helping them get the skills required to do that. so i'm quite different in my approach than i am here. that said, i don't believe in value-neutrality--i think the political predispositions folk bring to the table surface even if they're pretending they don't. and if that's not explicit, not something that students can go after as a problem, they you're telling them what to think, that they have to agree with you, even as you're pretending to yourself that you're doing the opposite. so it's a balancing act the nature of which runs way beyond whether you do or don'twear a button. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-19-2008, 05:17 AM	#6 (permalink)
mcgeedo Crazy	sadistikdreams, would you mind very much if I asked you how old you are, approximately?

10-19-2008, 05:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	Seems wise to keep education and politics separate. I want the education system to train people to think, not to tell them what to think.

10-19-2008, 06:23 AM	#9 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I don't see a problem with this. This should be enforced on all public (non-political) offices. Can you imagine if the police put political paraphernalia on their car or a judge on his gavel?

10-19-2008, 05:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
Viking1064 Insane Location: New Jersey	I'm a teacher. I am in my classroom to make sure the kids learn the curriculum, not know my political or any other personal views.

10-19-2008, 07:55 PM	#15 (permalink)
mcgeedo Crazy	"Why is one inappropriate but not the other?" I was curious about the same thing, and why the size of the button is important.

10-20-2008, 03:48 AM	#16 (permalink)
Catdaddy33 Psycho Location: TN	I agree as well, my wife is a middle school librarian/teacher and even if asked she states that how she votes is her business.

10-20-2008, 05:10 AM	#18 (permalink)
mcgeedo Crazy	"I guess I just don't see the problem." No problem as long as it's an Obama button? What about a Falwell button? Or an NRA button? Or a NAMBLA button?

10-20-2008, 06:44 PM	#20 (permalink)
FoolThemAll Walking is Still Honest Location: Seattle, WA	Visible politics are pretty much banned in my (WA government) workplace. Unless you're the union, for which membership dues are mandatory - then you have free reign. Either position wouldn't bother me, really. The mixed standard kinda irks me. __________________ I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

03-14-2011, 12:59 AM	#21 (permalink)
pinal Banned	This is extremely interesting. Excellent posting. It could also be the way. I would hope to get more here.

03-14-2011, 12:45 PM	#22 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	This is a 3-year old thread, but I'll bite. No buttons, no tee shirts for teachers. The small Florida town I lived in last had more than one teacher that made their political affiliations known in the classroom setting to their students during the campaign phase of the last election. I knew what the politics were in the area, but didn't expect them to spout their opinions to my high schoolers, some even spouting "facts" to further their platforms. No no no no. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

03-17-2011, 08:08 PM	#23 (permalink)
boink Addict Location: Seattle	I think so long as politics are taught in an unbiased way, teachers should be allowed to display some personal interest and opinion in their civic role in society. hopefully a teacher would be able to represent the truth and facts and encourage students learn and think for themselves. my experience was, those particular high school teachers who would have thought these subjects were worthless communicators. I'll also admit that during high school, I could give a shit about politics, so it would hardly matter anyway. I feel like it's a teachers job to get kids interested and thinking, if I had a kid come home wanting to debate me on stuff like politics, hey that's pretty cool, I mean it's better than not coming home and out there smoking his buddies grandparents crushed up pharmaceuticals and stealing cars, ya know ? it's ok for a young person to have different views than their parents, even though they might not like it. __________________ when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

03-17-2011, 09:43 PM	#24 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Let's tackle creationism and blatant historical revisionism in public schools before we move on to buttons. Priorities, folks.

03-18-2011, 12:54 AM	#25 (permalink)
bagatelle Psycho Location: Europe	I like Boink's view point. What I think about politics, is that not any one political movement is completely right - even though I would give my support to one system. Politics is negotiating and compromising. If the teacher is debating his views and lets the students stand behind their views, there's nothing wrong, when it's openly done and the teacher is not forcing his views on students. Apathy is worse than politics. __________________ Life is...

03-18-2011, 09:00 AM	#28 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I don't see a problem with the buttons. The kids wiil most likely take the opposite position of the teachers anyway. I guess they could use reverse psychology on them though.

03-18-2011, 09:24 AM	#30 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	The average American's aversion—if not outrage—towards anything left of centre-right would be funny if it weren't so dangerous. They can elect a black man as president, but they can't elect a leftist. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

03-18-2011, 11:23 AM	#31 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Its funny how the Political right can be so strongly Christian on the whole, and yet reject the social and political consequences of Christianity so thoroughly. Should teachers be apolitical? I dont think they can be if they give a shit about what they are teaching. They just should admit their bias and give the kids access to other points of view. Some of my best times at school were long arguments/debates with my Labour Party member sociology teacher (I was of course a communist and considered his position as no better than that of a capitalist bootlick and apologist of the master class...); refusing to complete my Mock A Level and instead writing an essay about the "fallacy of supply and demand"... from that I learned that while I might or might not have a point, it wouldnt hurt the capitalists much if I failed my Economics A Level when I had to take the real one (not that I would have done it in a real exam anyway... I think) I find it incredibly depressing to hear some people here say school should be about learning facts only. That to me is a limited and limiting view. The social, political, and emotional development of the children is just as important. I have no issue with any teacher having any political bias as long as he or she is prepared to be challenged and challenge back. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

03-18-2011, 11:32 AM	#32 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	Politics in a social studies class? Go for it, I'd go out of my way to have liberal minded students defend a conservative position and do the same for conservative students. Politics in math class? Not a chance.