kramus

I read Sex, Time and Power: How Women's Sexuality Shaped Human Evolution by Leonard Shlain a little while back. He has some interesting speculations on the value of male pattern baldness, left-handedness, homosexuality . . .
These may be forms of meta- patterns in evolution. Secondary patterns or even tertiary patterns, developing because we have had just so damned much time to evolve socially, biologically, you name it. He is the fellow that gave me the idea posted earlier that the impact of homosexuality in the original small groups that humanity developed in for lo these 180,000 years or so (not to mention our forbears who go back millions of years before that) had a positive value in the survival of the group. When enough groups survive because they happen to have lefties, baldies, or gay people - well - those groups are the ones we are now decended from.
An interesting read.

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new man

You know, everyone has been talking about the possibility of turning off this potential gene. but let's look at the possibilities. If this technology was developed, maybe I could use it to finally convince my wife to have a threesome with another girl.

I believe that most gays come to it through a nature component as opposed to a nurture component. I don't have an issue with it, and part of my understanding came originally from accepting that for most it was probably out of their control. But I don't believe that it is the norm, from an evolutionary standpoint. People give their dwarf children growth hormone to bring them into the norm. I am pretty confident that most deaf people would choose to have normal hearing even though there is a strong deaf culture and more acceptance. Many down's syndrome people seem profoundly happy, but how many parents would prefer to change their future child? I know I would.

For the record, if I found out that one of my future children was going to be born gay, I would have that gene shut off.

Coolyo

what I meant was, If you found out that you had a homosexual gene, but you did not want to be gay, then you don't have to. I don't believe it's like Brokeback, where the guy eventually gives in to his homosexuality.

Me too.

Nimetic

Well there is two other alternatives that I can think of.

3. Homosexuality is due to environment
(social surroundings, occurrences etc)

4. There is no single cause

I personally think that the last is the most likely. Although it seems irrelevant really. Doesn't matter what causes it.

little_tippler

I think there is probably no one single cause. To me, each person is different and has their own set of circumstances and characteristics.

I think it's quite odd to want to exclude the opinions of the gay community because they would be the most affected by such an event/possibility. They are the people I'd be most interested in hearing on this topic.

I think I have little or no place in deciding over the choices of another, particularly essential, structural ones like this is.

I could say "if I was gay, I'd do x". But I'm not so I can't be pretending I know what someone in those shoes would do. I imagine even among the gay community, some would be in favour of getting "cured", while others would abhor it.

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Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Baraka_Guru

Maybe it would be easier to find out what causes heterosexuality and whether that can be fixed.

Larger sample size and all that.

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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roachboy

i still think the mutation that endangers most of all, the eradication of which should be the objective of a eugenics programs, is the disposition to see in eugenics programs a way to "fix" things.

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spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

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Poppinjay

My research says boobies.

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The Faba

Yes, incredibly so, but that's not going to stop congessionaly hired shrinks from testifying otherwise. I was just bringing up a viewpoint that would arise should this whole she-bang happen.

-----Added 9/10/2008 at 02 : 06 : 19-----
My thoughts were that if a person who was completely not attracted in the slightest to the opposite sex and did not want to reproduce biologically could be artificially inseminated (through science), allow was used in the 'make it possible' sense, not the 'give permission to' sense. That was all.

-----Added 9/10/2008 at 02 : 07 : 38-----
Very interesting, I had not heard this logic before.

-----Added 9/10/2008 at 02 : 18 : 41-----
I'm unclear to whether you believe that I use the term 'fix' because I think there is something wrong with gay people. I used quotes because I don't believe there's anything wrong or needing to be fixed with being gay - but that's off point.

I'm fueling this discussion because if there is some gene discovered then we'll all be hearing these very arguments being made in the political world. Psychiatrists will be brought in to testify that the homosexuals aren't unbiased enough to make a decision, other Psych's will be brought in to say the opposite, people will scream "Eugenics, Eugenics!", and all kinds of hell would break loose.

So if you were directing sarcasm at me, you (probably) misunderstod my intentions, and if you were directing it at the argument, I misunderstood yours.

lostgirl

Nothing needs to be fixed. I wouldn't want to live in a world without gays.

Jozrael

Alright, I'm going to wipe my feet on the door of this particular discussion for one reason: it's not discussing the topic I meant to be discussing. I'm not trying to convince you that homosexuality is genetically caused (in fact, I don't believe it to be so!), but someone asked a question that if this was the case and we could stop any more non-heterosexual people from being born, would I support this, and I still answer yes. Also (@Supple Cow and others), he was not implying that gay people could revert to heterosexuality. Only that unborn fetuses could be rendered straight. And I still support this (despite my disbelief that it could happen). I'm sorry if this seems a terrible thing to some of you, and I certainly respect your opinions on this matter.

As to spinelust about me personally: I am totally content with my bisexuality. I do not feel flawed, discriminated against (though I know there are those who are), etc. If I could choose to become heterosexual, I would. This is solely to reduce temptations, though. I am with my girlfriend, and while I will never cheat, I have been most strongly tempted by men. This is why I would revert myself to heterosexuality if such a treatment was possible (Keep in mind this is not the treatment discussed by the OP of this thread...he was not referring to the possibility of changing an existing human), simply to make it -easier- for me.

I hope that answered your questions satisfactorily.

Dammitall

Jozrael, I appreciate your response and apologize if my questions imposed on you in any way.

Thank you.

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Jozrael

No imposition whatsoever! ^^. You're welcome, feel free to ask any other questions on that matter, too.

Sensei Crap

Homosexuality occurs in nature, FACT.

Secondly, whether or not I am comfortable with homosexuality in Homo sapiens is a non-issue. Ethically speaking it's WRONG to attempt any sort of change in a pre-existing culture.

Thirdly, gays don't try and steal your girlfriends (which in my experience is a plus)

Fourthly, gays are awesome and make good friends.

- of course, unless you're homophobic

ASU2003

I thought that I heard it before, so I looked up some stuff on-line. It pretty much says that in rats and birds, adding the opposite hormone causes them to display characteristics of the opposite gender.

Homosexuality and Biology - The Atlantic (June 1997)

Then in this overview, they say:

www.mygenes.co.nz/Ch7.pdf


I don't know, it's one of those things that needs to have a large medical study that has enough power and honesty to figure out what is going on. If there is anything to be found.