Baraka_Guru

I think you misunderstand what is meant by "social liberal." To generalize (at my peril), it should mean to protect the liberties of others (ie, the rights of visible minorities and gays, etc.). What do you think it means?

Oh, I assure you we are friends. What is so shocking about my post? I don't understand your reaction.

And if I've been "ignoring" your posts, it's likely because I've been really busy lately, and quite tired. I apologize. Please point me to anything you with me to address. I've recently stopped being so busy (and tired).

I think maybe you misread my post. I'm not suggesting this wiki represents the mindset of the traditional conservative; I'm saying I think of them when I see things like this...as a way of figuring out how conservatism is balanced within itself. Anyway, I won't speculate further on what upset you; perhaps you can just come out and tell me and we can figure this out.

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Jozrael

It is quite possible to respect individuals while condemning the general group, jorge. I feel the same way about conservatives, especially the religious right. I do respect your views here because you present them intelligently and respectfully. If you browse through Conservapedia, you will note that not only are most of the views logically flawed but they certainly are presented with nothing but a thin veneer of respect.

Halx

jorgelito, you may be highlighting a semantic logjam in communication.

Liberal, socially, typically means someone who is open and free, unrestricted. It is logically uncharacteristic of this mentality to classify or convert others to its side. All this side asks for is the freedom to do what it wants.

Conservative, socially, typically means someone who is strictly conforming to a standard with boundaries. Boundaries do not work if nobody adheres to them, so this side typically seeks to enforce the same boundaries on others around them.

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CinnamonGirl

Sigh. I live in the midst of Conservative America, so I hear stuff like this all the time. It makes me sad.

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Tully Mars

Feel for you, been there done that. Back in 2004 when I openly supported Kerry I had friends, long time friends, who called me everything but American.

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jorgelito

Mea culpa, I most certainly misread this entire thread apparently. It isn't the first time I misunderstood a few posts and it won't be the last. I am human. Thank you for your patience and understanding folks. Baraka, it is I who must apologize to you. Sorry for the outburst. And thank you for your post.

Yes, you are correct, I jumped the gun a bit and went a bit.."nuts".

Yes, I think you may be correct. My intent was to point out a flaw in the play on words and also, to highlight the fact that this does happen sometimes. My liberal friends are constantly trying to "convert" me. In other words, this is not just a conservative thing or a liberal thing. Everyone does it to some extent.

Yeah, I live in liberal California where being conservative is pretty much being the devil. I get so much hate from the liberals out here it's very saddening.

Yeah, I feel you bro. Happened to me too. I have a friend who has threatened to end our friendship if I vote for McCain. I was shocked. This truly hurt me. I don't think there is any excuse or justification for this type of extortion.

My conservative friends aren't exactly happy that I am leaning Obama but they respect me enough not to give me shit for it. It's just my liberal friends who are so fanatical.


P.S. - Never surf TFP while drunk.

The more you know...

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CinnamonGirl

Aw, I'm sorry, man. It's very frustrating to live among people whose ideas are so radically different from yours, but especially if they look down on you because you think differently. My family likes to tell me, on a fairly regular basis, that I'm a moron because of my political views. At least my friends are a little more accepting of different viewpoints.




That made me giggle.

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"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

cadre

+1 I don't think I would know what to do if someone with these views confronted me. I'd probably run for the hills.

It's important to point out that Liberal and Conservative mean different things in different contexts, social and political. People tend to get the two contexts confused.

As far as I'm concerned, the website is a joke and I hope that anyone with a rational mind thinks the same way. I actually kind of want to meet someone like this...I think telling them about myself would cause them to have a breakdown or at the very least, they'd be as weirded out by me as I am by them. Things like this make me happy I live in a very socially liberal town.


The only real problem I have with conservapedia (other than they're complete disregard for facts or rationality) is that I know that some kids are growing up in homes with this biased environment and they probably view websites like that as fact. Those kids must grow up into some messed up adults.

I'd like to point out also, that I think that wikipedia tends to be more liberal because it's the internet age group that's logging on and adding to it the most and we seem to be more liberal.

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Jozrael

Ironically, jorgelito, it's the exact opposite situation with me.

Except that my present company includes very few conservatives, but those it does include :x.

I agree with your statement that -both- sides do it.

Charlatan

I think the discussions in this thread are a clear indication that, thanks to spin, there has been a lot of misunderstanding around the definition of political positions. The conservative spin on the word liberal has been such that the definition of liberal has been completely reversed.

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jorgelito

Oh for sure, nor do I think we are unique in this. That was sort of the point I suppose, that people of all persuasions do this sometimes, not just people from one group.

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KnifeMissile

Actually, I'm surprised that no one has challenged the claim that Wikipedia has a "liberal bias." It has strict guidelines against bias, at least in the sense that I think people mean it. I can probably expand on this more if anyone can give me a specific example of said "bias..."

After all, if there is a bias, you are free to change it...

Jozrael

@Knife: Not necessarily. Hot topics like abortion and such are pretty well locked down. You can apply to add your FACTS/ETC. to the debate, but they won't allow people to edit it at all if they're just going to blank the page and say ABORTIONZ RONG!

Thus, the possibility for bias emerges because the administrators decide whether something is worthy of inclusion to their page, and they can have a liberal bias (not too pronounced or it would be noticed/the more moderates would object).

I read the Conservapedia article on their riot list against Wikipedia, and they do have a very, very minor point with a lot of the things. Certainly not enough to reject the colossal amount of information Wikipedia has, however.

KnifeMissile

The abortion page doesn't appear to be locked down at the moment so, yes, you can simply change it; no application necessary. Of course, if you change it to say "ABORTIONZ RONG!" it will be labeled "vandalism" and get reverted since, if nothing else, such an edit will violate the standards for Wikipedia (including, ironically, the NPOV policy against bias). However, if you were to change the wording to be more neutral, it's unlikely to get reverted. Undue reverts are frowned upon while spontaneous changes are not...

It's more like the administrators decide whether something is worthy of exclusion to the page after the fact (it's not their page). This may seem like a minor point but all changes are preserved in the page history and nothing is excluded from the talk pages so all grievances are seen.

We can even put this to the test. As I suggested earlier, find a specific point of bias. We can change it and see how long it takes for that change to be reverted. If your change is sufficiently neutral, I'm pretty sure it won't get reverted...

I think it's about time we bring these out into the open. Specifically, with which points, however minor, does anyone agree?
-----Added 29/9/2008 at 06 : 04 : 42-----
Hey, I'm interested in such a thread! I think that Willravel (and many others) overstate things but to say he answered nothing is a bold statement and I'm keen to see how you would support it. Start the thread and I'll meet you there!