pregnancy and drugs question..help - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Paq · 09-21-2008, 12:43 PM

Ok, so a friend of mine is a hardcore stoner. I have never smoked anything in my life, but she refuses to stop while she's pregnant...

so, i know some of the dangers of cig smoking while pregnant, but it is insanely hard for me to find things to show her about weed smoking while pregnant...any ideas or is it harmless, as she says...

snowy · 09-21-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paq

Ok, so a friend of mine is a hardcore stoner. I have never smoked anything in my life, but she refuses to stop while she's pregnant...

so, i know some of the dangers of cig smoking while pregnant, but it is insanely hard for me to find things to show her about weed smoking while pregnant...any ideas or is it harmless, as she says...

THC is presumed to be a teratogen; however, there is obviously not an enormous body of evidence to prove it is like there is with cigarette smoking. However, there are some studies demonstrating the effects of prenatal marijuana use; most have examined long-term growth and behavioral impacts.

For instance:

Quote:

Growth from Birth to Early Adolescence in Offspring Prenatally Exposed to Cigarettes and Marijuana click to show

and

Quote:

Effects of prenatal marijuana exposure on child behavior problems at age 10 click to show

Both of these articles are from the same journal, Neurotoxicology and Teratology.

There are more, but the general consensus is that smoking marijuana while pregnant is not good for the fetus. It's better to be safe than sorry, isn't it?

jewels · 09-21-2008, 02:06 PM

What snowy said ...

If there's even a slight chance, known or unknown, that there could be an impact on growth or development, what kind of risks will she be willing to take as a parent?

That might give her something to put in her pipe and smoke.

Paq · 09-21-2008, 02:09 PM

tha'ts pretty much what i keep saying....why risk it, ya know. proven or not, but i'm just surprised at how little info there really is out there about it.

uncle phil · 09-21-2008, 02:49 PM

is she going to listen to us?

she needs more than we have to offer...

Paq · 09-21-2008, 03:09 PM

i'm trying to get her to try a counseling/support group or something...i think it's crazy that she can't stop lighting up...

*Nikki* · 09-21-2008, 06:02 PM

How about the fact that she is depriving oxygen to the fetus?

Randy · 09-22-2008, 03:34 PM

The most important thing is that she be honest and fully open with her Obstetrician. If you promote nothing else about your friends and family's health, beg them to tell their doctors everything.

pig · 09-22-2008, 03:54 PM

from what I can see, low birthweight, possible premature birth (of course related) and later behavioral problems. if she's getting high, her fetus is exposed to the chemicals. let it turn into a human, and then let that human make choices.

MSD · 09-23-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nikki*

How about the fact that she is depriving oxygen to the fetus?

I was going to suggest you say this, but end it with "you fucking idiot."

I doubt someone that irresponsible is going to be much of a good parent, though.

Cynthetiq · 09-23-2008, 12:29 PM

pick up her stash and flush it down the toilet.

throw away her pipes, rolling papers, and other paraphenalia.

dont' throw it in the house, take it outside and throw it away elsewhere.

World's King · 09-23-2008, 12:34 PM

So... My ex (World's Queen) got knocked up by the dipshit she broke up with me for. She smokes weed every day. I hate drugs. All drugs. I asked her if she had quit since finding out she was knocked up. She said no and that her doctor was okay with it because it helps her eat without throwing it back up. She was lying to me. No doctor is gonna suggest you smoke weed when you're two months in...

It angers me so much.

Ayashe · 09-23-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle phil

is she going to listen to us?

she needs more than we have to offer...

That pretty much sums up my thoughts. Generally when people use drugs of any kind they aren't going to just quit after seeing an article, particularly if they have already gotten defensive about it. Makes you sort of sick seeing it happen, all you can do is give her some information and hope for the best.

genuinegirly · 09-23-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

pick up her stash and flush it down the toilet.

throw away her pipes, rolling papers, and other paraphenalia.

dont' throw it in the house, take it outside and throw it away elsewhere.

Yes, tough love may be the only decent option, if she isn't listening to advice. I wouldn't jump to this outright (unless she was underage and living in my home).
Do you have other friends who are willing to lay on the criticism? If she gets it from all angles and has a decent support group, she might be willing to give up pot for the duration of the pregnancy. Do you happen to know her physician? I'd probably throw him/her a little head's up if I were able.

MSD · 09-24-2008, 05:05 AM

I asked for resources on a forum dedicated to drug use, and got the following responses:
all bolding is mine for emphasis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Name Removed

NORML's Marijuana Health Mythology - NORML

It's probably not the best idea, but she isn't a total idiot. Possibly there are other studies out there that contradict this but THC isn't really toxic to anything. If she has to get off while she's pregnant marijuana is by far the safest choice.

Edit: Stress during pregnancy can cause birth defects, your friend should try to be more supportive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ""Name Removed

While the effect of THC on a fetus isn't as disastrous as that of alcohol, it's still a powerful drug and consequences should be expected. Cognitive characteristics such as intelligence (of any sort), short term memory capacity, spatial abilities, visual acuity, emotional reactivity, language abilities, motor skills, assimilation ability for new ideas, and hundreds more are all influenced by the environment a fetus grows in. Even if research didn't show an effect (and much of it does), there's a very good chance that there is some consequence of the child being exposed to THC even if it isn't immediately observable by a study. Our ability to tell if a child is affected is only as accurate as the test used to gauge a given parameter. If we can't accurately measure (or even define) intelligence, how can a study rule out an effect? Not to mention the thousands of cognitive properties that can't be or haven't been measured, or that are appear only under certain circumstances. Or maybe it affects the development of the immune system, or decreases the production of an enzyme that helps protect against Alzheimer's in the distant future. The point is that a fetus is much more vulnerable to environmental factors than the average adult whose brain has largely stopped developing, and a lack of toxicity in adults isn't evidence of safety for a fetus.

This is a freaking human being that is going to live 80 years with the consequences of the mother's behavior during pregnancy. Is being high during those nine months worth the risks, known or unknown?

Some evidence so I don't sound like a crackpot:

Quote:

Teratological investigations have demonstrated that agents that are relatively harmless to the mother may have significant negative consequences to the fetus. Among these agents, prenatal alcohol, nicotine or cannabis exposure have been related to adverse offspring outcomes. Although there is a relatively extensive body of literature that has focused upon birth and behavioral outcomes in newborns and infants after prenatal exposure to maternal smoking, drinking and, to a lesser extent, cannabis use, information on neurobehavioral and cognitive teratogenic findings beyond these early ages is still quite limited. Furthermore, most studies have focused on prenatal exposure to heavy levels of smoking, drinking or cannabis use. Few recent studies have paid attention to low or moderate levels of exposure to these substances. This review endeavors to provide an overview of such studies, and includes animal findings and potential mechanisms that may explain the mostly subtle effects found on neurobehavioral and cognitive outcomes. It is concluded that prenatal exposure to either maternal smoking, alcohol or cannabis use is related to some common neurobehavioral and cognitive outcomes, including symptoms of ADHD (inattention, impulsivity), increased externalizing behavior, decreased general cognitive functioning, and deficits in learning and memory tasks.

Full study
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Nimetic · 09-28-2008, 12:02 AM

The baby is likely to have to do a drug withdrawal in their first weeks of life.

My argument would be this. If that withdrawal is a major thing, then you should cut the drug. On the other hand if you (the mother) reckon that it's a minor thing, then similarly, you should cut the drug.

Is it fair to ask a baby to do what an adult will not do?

(Of course I'm ignoring a few complexities here such as how much of the drug goes to the baby. But lets assume that it all does - unless we have data to the contrary).

greytone · 09-28-2008, 05:03 PM

If you think about it, it really is not surprising that there is so little information in the medical and scientific literature.

Studies come in variety of types. The best are double blinded controlled experiments. Any studies that involve human subjects must be approved by a panel of ethicists and get funding. It is next to impossible to design a study that involves giving ANY substance to pregnant humans (for this to even be considered the hypothesis would have to be that the substance was beneficail). When these kind of studies are impossible, information is gathered in case control studies. In other words, woman who have used drugs during pregnancy are compared to those who have not. Accurate results would require that both groups of woman give accurate and honest histories regarding their drug use. Both groups would have to be large enough (hundreds or thousands) to show a difference in the rate of rare occurances betweent the two groups to satisfy the statisticians. One could easily argue that research dollars would be better used on just about anything else and that common sense should be enough to know that taking illicit drugs are likely to impare your ability to be a good parent before or after birth.

Paq · 09-28-2008, 05:19 PM

oh,i know about how hard it is to get funding for it, but obviously people do it and i can actually find more information on coke use in mothers, heroin, too...

at any rate, 4 of our mutual friends basically held her down and trashed her weed and her dealer..... she said she'd stop, but only after hours of 'tough love' so to speak.

sigh...

Amaras · 09-28-2008, 07:15 PM

Look, I just got out of rehab, so ignore me at will.
Here in Canada "harmless" weed is creating a whole class of people who, will not
committing crimes, are addicts. They smoke daily, multiple times.
It distances one from their emotions. Tell me that is not an effect on the brain.
It is well known to stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain. If one continually
stimulates the serotonin cycle, it diminishes the capacity of the brain to replenish
it's ability to do so naturally.
All of this is happening in the fetus' developing brain.
If she refuses to stop she may need some professional help.
Good luck.

thespian86 · 09-28-2008, 07:45 PM

This is a stupid question. Not on your part Paq, but that it needs to be asked is fucking stupid. Tell your friend to grow the hell up. In fact, do you want to be friends with someone that irresponsible?

/being an asshole

Fohur2 · 09-28-2008, 08:17 PM

Marijuana doesn't effect serotonin levels,psilocybin, DMT, mescaline, and LSD mimic the action of serotonin and Ecstasy releases it.

nomcat · 09-28-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimetic

The baby is likely to have to do a drug withdrawal in their first weeks of life.

Nah, not true... cannabis has no physically addictive properties, it's all psychological... although no less strong. Damage is still done to the fetus though.

I worked in a wine shop and refused to sell cigarettes to a pregnant girl (about 18) although there is no law against it... I just couldn't do it. She wasn't happy about it and argued it was her right, but I just pointed at the "Right to refuse sale" sign above the door.

mixedsubstance · 09-29-2008, 03:26 PM

People who are on drugs/alcohol won't listen to anyone- especially those the closest to them. All you can do is be their friend but let them know you care. You've done your part. What they will do is rebell and most likely do it more. Usually pot smokers aren't like those addicted to hard drugs or alcohol, but those few with the chemical imbalance in their brain tend to act irrational and highly addicted as any other drug-user. I know- my ex used to be that exact same way with weed.
Even though I don't know the extent of smoking weed while pregnant- it can do harm. I smoked VERY VERY rarely (maybe twice) while I was pregnant but would only take 1 hit because I was too scared to think of any consequences.
Maybe you can find some materials that talk about birth defects from drugs (including marijuana) and just lay it somewhere noticable for her.

09-21-2008, 12:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	pregnancy and drugs question..help Ok, so a friend of mine is a hardcore stoner. I have never smoked anything in my life, but she refuses to stop while she's pregnant... so, i know some of the dangers of cig smoking while pregnant, but it is insanely hard for me to find things to show her about weed smoking while pregnant...any ideas or is it harmless, as she says... __________________ Live. Chris

09-21-2008, 02:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	What snowy said ... If there's even a slight chance, known or unknown, that there could be an impact on growth or development, what kind of risks will she be willing to take as a parent? That might give her something to put in her pipe and smoke. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

09-21-2008, 02:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	tha'ts pretty much what i keep saying....why risk it, ya know. proven or not, but i'm just surprised at how little info there really is out there about it. __________________ Live. Chris

09-21-2008, 02:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	is she going to listen to us? she needs more than we have to offer... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

09-21-2008, 03:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	i'm trying to get her to try a counseling/support group or something...i think it's crazy that she can't stop lighting up... __________________ Live. Chris

09-21-2008, 06:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	How about the fact that she is depriving oxygen to the fetus?

09-22-2008, 03:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
Randy Upright Location: Central Texas	The most important thing The most important thing is that she be honest and fully open with her Obstetrician. If you promote nothing else about your friends and family's health, beg them to tell their doctors everything.

09-22-2008, 03:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	from what I can see, low birthweight, possible premature birth (of course related) and later behavioral problems. if she's getting high, her fetus is exposed to the chemicals. let it turn into a human, and then let that human make choices. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

09-23-2008, 12:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	pick up her stash and flush it down the toilet. throw away her pipes, rolling papers, and other paraphenalia. dont' throw it in the house, take it outside and throw it away elsewhere. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

09-23-2008, 12:34 PM	#12 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	So... My ex (World's Queen) got knocked up by the dipshit she broke up with me for. She smokes weed every day. I hate drugs. All drugs. I asked her if she had quit since finding out she was knocked up. She said no and that her doctor was okay with it because it helps her eat without throwing it back up. She was lying to me. No doctor is gonna suggest you smoke weed when you're two months in... It angers me so much. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

09-28-2008, 12:02 AM	#16 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	The baby is likely to have to do a drug withdrawal in their first weeks of life. My argument would be this. If that withdrawal is a major thing, then you should cut the drug. On the other hand if you (the mother) reckon that it's a minor thing, then similarly, you should cut the drug. Is it fair to ask a baby to do what an adult will not do? (Of course I'm ignoring a few complexities here such as how much of the drug goes to the baby. But lets assume that it all does - unless we have data to the contrary).

09-28-2008, 05:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
greytone Junkie	If you think about it, it really is not surprising that there is so little information in the medical and scientific literature. Studies come in variety of types. The best are double blinded controlled experiments. Any studies that involve human subjects must be approved by a panel of ethicists and get funding. It is next to impossible to design a study that involves giving ANY substance to pregnant humans (for this to even be considered the hypothesis would have to be that the substance was beneficail). When these kind of studies are impossible, information is gathered in case control studies. In other words, woman who have used drugs during pregnancy are compared to those who have not. Accurate results would require that both groups of woman give accurate and honest histories regarding their drug use. Both groups would have to be large enough (hundreds or thousands) to show a difference in the rate of rare occurances betweent the two groups to satisfy the statisticians. One could easily argue that research dollars would be better used on just about anything else and that common sense should be enough to know that taking illicit drugs are likely to impare your ability to be a good parent before or after birth. __________________ I was there to see beautiful naked women. So was everybody else. It's a common failing. Robert A Heinlein in "They Do It With Mirrors"

09-28-2008, 05:19 PM	#18 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	oh,i know about how hard it is to get funding for it, but obviously people do it and i can actually find more information on coke use in mothers, heroin, too... at any rate, 4 of our mutual friends basically held her down and trashed her weed and her dealer..... she said she'd stop, but only after hours of 'tough love' so to speak. sigh... __________________ Live. Chris

09-28-2008, 07:15 PM	#19 (permalink)
Amaras Junkie Location: At my daughter's beck and call.	Look, I just got out of rehab, so ignore me at will. Here in Canada "harmless" weed is creating a whole class of people who, will not committing crimes, are addicts. They smoke daily, multiple times. It distances one from their emotions. Tell me that is not an effect on the brain. It is well known to stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain. If one continually stimulates the serotonin cycle, it diminishes the capacity of the brain to replenish it's ability to do so naturally. All of this is happening in the fetus' developing brain. If she refuses to stop she may need some professional help. Good luck. __________________ Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state. -Noam Chomsky Love is a verb, not a noun. -My Mom The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later. -Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

09-28-2008, 07:45 PM	#20 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	This is a stupid question. Not on your part Paq, but that it needs to be asked is fucking stupid. Tell your friend to grow the hell up. In fact, do you want to be friends with someone that irresponsible? /being an asshole __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much.

09-28-2008, 08:17 PM	#21 (permalink)
Fohur2 Crazy	Marijuana doesn't effect serotonin levels,psilocybin, DMT, mescaline, and LSD mimic the action of serotonin and Ecstasy releases it.

09-29-2008, 03:26 PM	#23 (permalink)
mixedsubstance Crazy Location: Where the wild things are.	People who are on drugs/alcohol won't listen to anyone- especially those the closest to them. All you can do is be their friend but let them know you care. You've done your part. What they will do is rebell and most likely do it more. Usually pot smokers aren't like those addicted to hard drugs or alcohol, but those few with the chemical imbalance in their brain tend to act irrational and highly addicted as any other drug-user. I know- my ex used to be that exact same way with weed. Even though I don't know the extent of smoking weed while pregnant- it can do harm. I smoked VERY VERY rarely (maybe twice) while I was pregnant but would only take 1 hit because I was too scared to think of any consequences. Maybe you can find some materials that talk about birth defects from drugs (including marijuana) and just lay it somewhere noticable for her. __________________ Well, isn't that just kick-you-in-the-crotch, spit-on-your-neck fantastic?!? Without energy, there would be nothing.