Free Range Kids: Go out and play! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 09-16-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

View: Remember 'go outside and play?'
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Remember 'go outside and play?'
Remember 'go outside and play?'
Overbearing parents have taken the fun out of childhood and turned it into a grind.
Rosa Brooks

May 15, 2008

Can you forgive her?

In March, Lenore Skenazy, a New York City mother, gave her 9-year-old son, Izzy, a MetroCard, a subway map, a $20 bill and some quarters for pay phones. Then she let him make his own way home from Bloomingdale's department store -- by subway and bus.

Izzy survived unscathed. He wasn't abducted by a perverted stranger or pushed under an oncoming train by a homicidal maniac. He didn't even get lost. According to Skenazy, who wrote about it in a New York Sun column, he arrived home "ecstatic with independence."

His mother wasn't so lucky. Her column generated as much outrage as if she'd suggested that mothers make extra cash by hiring their kids out as child prostitutes.

But it also reinvigorated an important debate about children, safety and independence.

Reader, if you're much over 30, you probably remember what it used to be like for the typical American kid. Remember how there used to be this thing called "going out to play"?

For younger readers, I'll explain this archaic concept. It worked like this: The child or children in the house -- as long as they were over age 4 or so -- went to the door, opened it, and ... went outside. They braved the neighborhood pedophile just waiting to pounce, the rusty nails just waiting to be stepped on, the trees just waiting to be fallen out of, and they "played."

"Play," incidentally, is a mysterious activity children engage in when not compelled to spend every hour under adult supervision, taking soccer or piano lessons or practicing vocabulary words with computerized flashcards.

All in all, "going out to play" worked out well for kids. As the American Academy of Pediatrics' Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg testified to Congress in 2006, "Play allows children to create and explore a world they can master, conquering their fears while practicing adult roles. ... Play helps children develop new competencies ... and the resiliency they will need to face future challenges." But here's the catch: Those benefits aren't realized when some helpful adult is hovering over kids the whole time.

Thirty years ago, the "going out to play" culture coexisted with other culturally sanctioned forms of independence for even very young children: Kids as young as 6 used to walk to school on their own, for instance, or take public buses or -- gulp -- subways. And if they lived on a school bus route, their mommies did not consider it necessary to escort them to the bus stop every morning and wait there with them.

But today, for most middle-class American children, "going out to play" has gone the way of the dodo, the typewriter and the eight-track tape. From 1981 to 1997, for instance, University of Michigan time-use studies show that 3- to 5-year-olds lost an average of 501 minutes of unstructured playtime each week; 6- to 8-year-olds lost an average of 228 minutes. (On the other hand, kids now do more organized activities and have more homework, the lucky devils!) And forget about walking to school alone. Today's kids don't walk much at all (adding to the childhood obesity problem).

Increasingly, American children are in a lose-lose situation. They're forced, prematurely, to do all the un-fun kinds of things adults do (Be over-scheduled! Have no downtime! Study! Work!). But they don't get any of the privileges of adult life: autonomy, the ability to make their own choices, use their own judgment, maybe even get interestingly lost now and then.

Somehow, we've managed to turn childhood into a long, hard slog. Is it any wonder our kids take their pleasures where they can find them, by escaping to "Grand Theft Auto IV" or the alluring, parent-free world of MySpace?

But, but, but, you say, all the same, Skenazy should never have let her 9-year-old son take the subway! In New York, for God's sake! A cesspit of crack addicts, muggers and pedophiles!

Well, no. We parents have sold ourselves a bill of goods when it comes to child safety. Forget the television fear-mongering: Your child stands about the same chance of being struck by lightning as of being the victim of what the Department of Justice calls a "stereotypical kidnapping." And unless you live in Baghdad, your child stands a much, much greater chance of being killed in a car accident than of being seriously harmed while wandering unsupervised around your neighborhood.

Skenazy responded to the firestorm generated by her column by starting a new website -- freerangekids.wordpress.com -- dedicated to giving "our kids the freedom we had." She explains: "We believe in safe kids. ... We do NOT believe that every time school-age children go outside, they need a security detail."

Next time I take my kids to New York, I'm asking Skenazy to baby-sit.

I read this article and it made me increasingly interested in the idea of Freerange kids. So I looked up the blog and found it quite interesting.

Why FreeRange? FreeRangeKids

Now would you allow your child to do something along these lines? NYC is a rough and tumble town in some parts, but in others it's rather easy and simple.

I won't have kids but I'd let my nephews do so to the dismay of my sister I'm sure.

World's King · 09-16-2008, 10:21 AM

I prefer free range turkey or chicken... Little kid tends to be too stringy...

Halx · 09-16-2008, 10:28 AM

I can't forgive her for naming her kid Izzy.

But this is how I was raised and I didn't turn out so bad. I logged a lot of hours by myself, unsupervised, getting into trouble, getting hurt, wandering around. I wouldn't have had it any other way. I get sorta mad when I hear about over-protective adults. I actually never considered that organized sports might contribute to this, but I guess I can understand that. I played 8 years of soccer and I hated every minute of it.

snowy · 09-16-2008, 10:36 AM

Yes.

When I babysit I often tell the kids to "go outside and play." I usually read somewhere within line of sight and earshot while they whoop it up; sometimes that place is in the backyard with them and sometimes it is not. Sometimes we go to the park and I sit and read on a bench while they run around like crazy people. Sometimes I play too. Free play, indoors or out, allows kids to use their creativity and imaginations. Outdoor play allows them to be as crazy as they want to be without fear of ruining the furniture or breaking something--and it's great exercise.

I wouldn't let a child in my care go off to the store without supervision; that's a decision for a parent to make. When I have children, I'm pretty sure I'll let them walk and go to certain places without my supervision--my parents let us walk all over our neighborhood without supervision as kids, and when we were 8 and 10 it was common for us to walk to the little market a mile from our house. It teaches kids valuable safety skills, and I will have to trust that I did a good job of teaching them those skills. If you keep your child in a bubble all of the time, they never learn those things, and they never get to put them to the test.

And my goodness, I love sitting within earshot and overhearing what the kids come up with when they play. They create some of the most interesting games. It saddens me to think that there are kids that miss out on the creative opportunity free play provides.

BadNick · 09-16-2008, 10:43 AM

I'm lucky since where I live I have no qualms about allowing my kids to roam around the neighborhood to play and socialize. Usually they head to the playground, but even when they're playing one of their street games and hiding and hunting each other, I'm generally happy with it. And they have plenty of buddies who are also allowed to do this so I'm not the only parent who believes in our neighborhood. Talk about potential danger!!!...we still have a merry-go-round in our playground and it was recently adjusted by borough maintenance so it can go real fast again since it was slowing down. I've been known to spin that fast enough that kids fly off so I knew it was in need of adjustment when I'm pushing it as hard as I can and kids are still yelling "faster, faster".

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

I prefer free range turkey or chicken... Little kid tends to be too stringy...

Sady for baby cows, I really like the taste of veal...though the local farms raising them in a free range manner alleviated some of my guilt.

Eweser · 09-16-2008, 11:57 AM

My brother and I grew up in the country, so sometimes we'd end up more than a mile from home when we'd get to playing. I can't remember one time that my mom or dad came looking for us. They trusted that they had taught us to take care of ourselves out there and to be able to find our way home. Those were the absolute, hands-down best times of my life; even when we were fighting the whole time. I'm not sure that it's all that much more dangerous nowadays. I just think with 24 hour media and the world getting smaller through advanced technology that we hear about more bad things that happen.

This:

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

And my goodness, I love sitting within earshot and overhearing what the kids come up with when they play. They create some of the most interesting games. It saddens me to think that there are kids that miss out on the creative opportunity free play provides.

A bit off topic, but if you'll leave kids alone, they will handicap themselves to make sports/etc more even. I remember how we used to "give points" if one team was more dominant than the other. If an adult ever got involved, it would just get messy and no one ended up happy.

Grasshopper Green · 09-16-2008, 05:33 PM

My son goes outside to play. There are several kids from neighboring condos that congregate on the lawns between the units and do god knows what. My son loves it. We live on a busy street but because the condo complex has a driveway of sorts, as well as a fence, I feel he is fine playing outside unsupervised. Not only does he love hanging out with his friends, but I get much needed time to myself. It's a win-win situation for both of us.

I don't know if I'd give him a bus schedule and some money, but I think there are too many "helicopter parents" and I'm doing my damndest not to be one of them.

Charlatan · 09-16-2008, 05:56 PM

When in Toronto, I used to encourage my son (at the time he was 9 or so) to walk home from school, go to the store and take public transit to meet me at my office downtown on a regular basis. Now the he is 13, he takes public transit around by himself all the time.

I also encourage my 6 year old to go our and play in the playground by herself all the time. Granted, I can see the playground from my window. As she gets older I will be encouraging her to take public transit and explore the city by herself as well.

Yes, I will be nervous BUT I think it is important to develop her independence at a young age.

ratbastid · 09-16-2008, 06:09 PM

I lived at the end of a cul-de-sac in suburban Utah. Hard to imagine a safer environment to allow kids to roam.

Summer evenings, we'd have massive, sprawling, multi-team capture the flag games. Imagine a whole little neighborhood with forty kids on five or six teams running around it, each with their own base. We played that when a team's flag got captured by another team, that team's members became members of the capturing team. So you couldn't really harbor grudges, since your new team just beat your old team--it sucked, but now you were on the winning team.

Man, I haven't thought about that in years. GOOD times.

genuinegirly · 09-16-2008, 06:10 PM

I only was told "Go out and play in the backyard."
Our backyard was a half acre, contained an orchard of semi-dwarf fruit trees, a large playhouse, a man-made waterfall, a grassy area, a sandbox, and a small hill smack in the middle. It was entirely a realm for kids, my parents never interfered with our play. We ran to them when we injured ourselves, or sent a sibling/friend to fetch them. We were independent. We were also safe.

Honestly, it troubles me when I see a young child riding public transit without an adult.

ngdawg · 09-16-2008, 06:25 PM

I always walked to school-it took a half hour so it was probably a half-mile or more.
When my sister was 7, some perv tried to take her while she was walking home (this was in 1964) by saying "Your mother told me to give you a ride home." She yelled back, "Oh no she didn't!!" and ran the half mile home...and mom still didn't give us rides, just told us to walk together. But on any given day there were kids marching to and from school like mini-battalions. Safety in numbers, perhaps.

I saw Izzy on Penn and Teller's Bullshit!, where they were discussing the "dangers" kids face. Something like 115 kids a year are abducted by strangers, they said. That's incredible odds.

My cousins all grew up in Brooklyn. We'd head out, walk around, play in the streets and local parks while the adults visited upstairs and didn't come back until we got tired or bored. Goodness, we even went into elevators alone!!! In the projects!!

I admit I might be a bit overprotective. It's hard letting go. I didn't let my kids walk to school until the 5th grade and, since I was actually dropping them off at friends' before I headed to work, they may have gotten rides instead of walking. They were in 6th or 7th grade before I stopped picking them up. And no sooner do I stop getting them that my son gets jumped and beaten in the park on his way home.

Here I didn't care for them crossing a main highway and some punk kids became the danger.....
But they were always allowed to leave the house and go play with friends in the neighborhood-I encouraged it. Hell, it gave ME some peace and quiet. And now that they're 16, they, especially my daughter, just take off, walk to the malls or down the highway to meet friends. I worry a little, but try to remember I raised them, they should be ok....

This time of instant news has put fear in us. We hear of a child in Texas disappearing and think it will happen in our own town. We have access, thanks to the internet, to the locations of every criminal and seek them out (btdt). We have been inundated with "experts" telling us how we should protect our kids from those horrible monsters. They exist, no doubt, but instead or arming our kids with smarts(like my little sister in 1964), we shroud them in 2008.

ShaniFaye · 09-16-2008, 06:40 PM

WE (my sister and I) went out to play, our only rule was to come home when the street lights came on lol

CinnamonGirl · 09-17-2008, 09:24 AM

Well, maybe it's because I'm not a city kid... but I just don't think that's a good idea at nine! Maybe twelve or so... but not nine.

We used to go play outside all the time, and it drives me crazy that my younger cousins are more into video games than outside games. I'm all for sending kids outside... but I'd also be supervising them until they got a little older.

Jozrael · 09-17-2008, 10:01 AM

I fully support this notion. I was overprotected in a sense as a kid, but I grew up in a nice safe neighborhood, so I could go outside and play as much as I wanted to. I'll give my kids the same freedom. Even to use public transit if they want to, but they'll just need to know safety rules/tactics. Always keep their eyes open in every direction, and what to do if they're touched in any way (Immediately scream :P).

kurty[B] · 09-17-2008, 10:49 AM

How was I raised? Go out and play definitely. As long as I was back by nightfall I was fine. I was not supposed to cross the highway, and since the train tracks and the river were on the other side of the highway I was DEFINITELY not supposed to be near the trains or the river. I did break the rules and played on the trains once, and it did start moving down the tracks while I was playing on a traincar filled with large steel pips. Thanks to being forewarned, and NOT learning physics from movies, I knew better than to jump from the train once it started moving. I stayed on board until it stopped in a town 30 miles away (for a 9 year old I was about as scared as you get). I knew I broke the rules, my parents would be livid if they found out, and found a phone to call my friend down the street, and his parents came and picked me up. To this day I still don't believe my parents have found out about this adventure.

The only difference I want for my son, is for him to know it is OK to call me when he gets in trouble.

Even when I got older, and drove the family car off a cliff, I had it towed out, went to a junkyard and got all the parts I needed to replace the front end of the car all before my parents got back home. Even though the front end of the car was now a darker shade of red I still tried to get away with not telling them about my "mishap" because I knew what trouble I was in for.

I think people don't give kids credit for being as capable as they actually are.

Jozrael · 09-17-2008, 10:51 AM

Those are two quite amazing stories.

Reese · 09-17-2008, 11:40 AM

Well, The chance of getting struck by lightning goes way up when you play outside in a thunderstorm. If everyone just let their pre-teens runs free miles, or in this case blocks away from home, "stereotypical kidnappings" would go up. I'm all for sending the kids outside and I spent almost all of my days outside playing. I also remember my mother outside watering her plants, washing her car, picking up crap in the yard, or reading a book on the porch. To us, she wasn't watching us, but now I'm pretty sure she was listening and watching when we were in sight. I don't worry so much when they're together with a few other kids a few blocks away but there's no way I could trust a 9 year old alone in a city. It's not a question of what if something horrible happens, It's a question of how does a kid deal with the situations that aren't so rare. He gets on the wrong train/bus and gets off his route. He'll try to get back himself and get even farther off course. Does he know what to do if his bus is late or he misses it? Can he handle a homeless person begging for change, or he falls into an open manhole!(I heard that happens alot...) It's not the threats you prepare them for, It's the threats you don't know to warn him about because you don't see it as a threat.

girldetective · 09-17-2008, 02:46 PM

I was raised with small town opportunities and play. Bicycling, swimming, walking to school on freeze ass snowy days. I loved it and ran all over. When I was a teen I would go into Chicago, albeit without my parents permission. There was excitement in those urban environs that I still feel today, and that I live in.

I raised the children in a small city and they had a lot of freedom at a young age. My oldest would often walk 2 blocks downtown by herself when she was 5-6. They were the same 2 blocks and she new them by heart, as well as all the rules. She did it frequently enough that she became well known along the route and people sort of watched out for her. I would call ahead to ensure that the person would be at her destination, and I would watch her walk there. I thought it was instilling confidence in her, but now she tells me that it was awful of me and that she felt neglected. Who knew?!

My youngest walked to school on her first day of kindergarten with her friend who was in first grade. They were so happy and excited, and well versed in the rules. I walked behind at a polite distance and took photos of them all smiley and good. They walked through the neighborhood 3-4 blocks and had to cross a quite busy street, especially during school hours, and by a large public park. When feeling brave they would sometimes walk the other way down a busy thoroughfare after walking through the park and past the high school. They usually walked home and to school together and sometimes picked up other kids along the way. I thought I was instilling freedom and confidence in her, and now she says that I have always been the best mother, her favorite mother, and she loves me very much.

See, you never know.

Ayashe · 09-17-2008, 02:47 PM

When I read these articles and view these responses I have to admit that a part of me wonders. Will those supporting kids running off independently also be those who are saying, The Jones' kids are always running on the streets at all hours, the Smith kids are everywhere.. I bet the Johnson's parents don't have half a clue where their kids are most of the time or I can't believe Johnny is out so late.

I feel I am a responsible parent. I know where my child is, I have met her friends, I know who is going to be home to supervise etc. I see tossed up frequently the notion that it is all about a unrealistic fear of child abduction or molestation. It isn't at all, at least not for myself. There are many, many things that unattended children, or simply absentee parentism can cause. Is it so wrong that I call to parents ahead and check? I don't think so. I don't allow my daughter to walk to school. I don't live in the most urban environment, but I do know the traffic in those areas and it is horrible for a pedestrian. I also know of at least 2 fatalities of children crossing in those areas. Does it make me overprotective or mean I have common sense to take advantage of a perfectly good bus system?

When I and my child were both prepared for her to expand her territory beyond where my voice would carry she gained a cell phone. She carries it with her at all times. Go out and play is just fine, I have no issue with the walks to the park, the hanging out with the friends. I do want to know where she is going, if she is going somewhere else from there, and an absolute must is when she is to come home and if it is further away than usual, a call when she gets there. Does this make me overprotective or does this make me a parent?

I feel that there is excellent dialog in my home. We have discussed drugs, alcohol, boys etc all at great length. I actually come from a belief that exposing those topics in film, television etc(no, not porn) so discussion can take place is a positive thing rather than a thing to be avoided. Those are protections yes, but for some kids it is not enough. Some kids definitely need to see an arm out to slow them down as situations can fall quickly out of control when there is peer pressure involved. Live free, learn and grow can easily turn into a parents worst nightmare.

Another thing to ponder, is when you have to start a sentence with.. When I am a parent... it isn't advice or wisdom you are sharing, it is an idea or concept. No matter how many babysitting hours you have logged, no matter how many hours you have spent with the little siblings or nieces and nephews.. you haven't been a parent until you have had a child. It is easy to look back at childhood and resent the times you felt that you were ready to take certain steps that weren't allowed. Once you hold that seed in your arms and are watching it grow, your mind changes a little. You start to recall the things you would have done should you have been given the chance and recognize the consequences. It makes you hold on a little bit tighter, it changes your view dramatically.

lotsofmagnets · 09-17-2008, 03:36 PM

i saw 5 year old children using the bus alone late at night in austria. i saw children playing at a park at 1am on a weeknight here in iceland in the middle of summer. my parents gave me a lot of freedom as a child as did they with my brother and i seem to recall my friends having the same treatment. yes, things are a little more restricted these days, but on the whole and in most places children still have their freedom. i guess there would be some issues in a plce like central new york but then i wonder what parent would raise their child there anway?

MSD · 09-18-2008, 05:06 AM

I was allowed to go out in the backyard and play if I told my mom I would be outside so she could look out and check on me. The worst I managed to do was "paint" the inside wall of my play house (a little wooden shack that would fit three or four kids) with a bucket of water, pokeweed berries, and mud. That was pretty much the extent of my freedom. I was allowed to ride my bike up and down the street, but God forbid I decided to go around the block or even onto another street.

My mom was very overprotective in general, and because of that, I now have a near complete disregard for personal safety, common sense, and conventional wisdom.

Terrell · 09-19-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

I can't forgive her for naming her kid Izzy.

I agree with you on this, especially considering that Izzy is a girl's name (Diminutive form of Isabel), and the child in question is a boy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

But this is how I was raised and I didn't turn out so bad. I logged a lot of hours by myself, unsupervised, getting into trouble, getting hurt, wandering around. I wouldn't have had it any other way. I get sorta mad when I hear about over-protective adults. I actually never considered that organized sports might contribute to this, but I guess I can understand that. I played 8 years of soccer and I hated every minute of it.

I agree, I had plenty of freedom as a kid to play in the neighborhood. I managed to stay out of trouble, and never was a victim of child abuse. I really don't have a problem with him riding the subway alone. If a criminal were to victimize him, the blame should lie at the feet of the criminal, not his mother.

snowy · 09-19-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrell

I agree with you on this, especially considering that Izzy is a girl's name (Diminutive form of Isabel), and the child in question is a boy.

Izzy can also be short for Isadore/Isidore, which is a boy's name

Isadore - Origin and Meaning of the name Isadore at BabyNames.com

Cynthetiq · 09-19-2008, 10:15 AM

or short for Israel... also a boy's name.

Izzy Stradlin of GnR fame....

agreed, why does the blame lay anywhere else but the attacker?

new man · 09-19-2008, 09:29 PM

I remember playing in the creek behind my house and down the street when I was 6 or 7. We caught crayfish and even drank that nasty creek water. Once I put my hand down on a rock with a piece of broken glass on it. I was running home drinking the blood because I thought it would all run out. You can still see small scar 29 years later. I was given a pocketknife when I was in the cub scouts. When I was ten or 11 we used to ride our bikes all over the neighborhood and into the woods and so forth.

When I have kids I will probably be more comfortable because they will have cell phones and instant contact.

biznatch · 09-25-2008, 07:39 PM

From age 2 to 7, I lived in a tiny "town". My house had a neighboring house on one side, the yards weren't separated, and a cornfield on the other, and an area where the fence could be crossed. We used to play "Cowboys and Indians" in the cornfields, sled down the slopes in our front-yards, me and my dad would build wood shelters, and I had a tree I claimed for my own.
The yard was full of them, big, huge trees, and I don't remember clearly, but I don't remember there being a "limit" to our backyard... Maybe woods or something.
My tree was one my favorite places to be, according to my parents. I'd sit there, stare at the sky, play with branches, look for bugs...it was a beautiful place to grow up in.

Then we moved to Mexico City. I loved it too, but I wasn't able to really "go out and play" on my own. You see, in the DF (Distrito Federal, the capital), you don't really see houses from the street, you see walls. Or wall high gates that you can see through, but mostly walls, sometimes with barbed wire or shards of glass on top of them to protect the house.
You often heard of kidnappings, and being a white kid younger than 12, I was probably even more a choice target.
We did have a driver/everyjob kind of guy, which most expats in Mexico have. They know the city (which is a tough place to know or even drive in), and sometimes we'd take walks together to the local park, and then yeah, I'd be free to play around (and trust me, the park near my house was like a kingdom for me...I wish I had pictures...there was empty fountains, playground areas, just an awesome place).
But still, not the same as being alone, discovering new things on your own.

I'm taking this decision now, my kid will go out and play. If I feel safer with him/her having a cell phone, fine, but I think it's one of the most important things a child can do. And they'll have great memories like I do. Thanks, mom and dad.

ryfo · 09-25-2008, 07:49 PM

When I was a kid, I wasnt expected to be inside until it got dark, you just stayed outside and played till called for dinner. I have a friend who used to walk her kids 9 and 10 to school and they lived two houses away from the school grounds. This seems way too protective, but I dont have kids of my own.

09-16-2008, 10:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I prefer free range turkey or chicken... Little kid tends to be too stringy... __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

09-16-2008, 10:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I can't forgive her for naming her kid Izzy. But this is how I was raised and I didn't turn out so bad. I logged a lot of hours by myself, unsupervised, getting into trouble, getting hurt, wandering around. I wouldn't have had it any other way. I get sorta mad when I hear about over-protective adults. I actually never considered that organized sports might contribute to this, but I guess I can understand that. I played 8 years of soccer and I hated every minute of it. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

09-16-2008, 10:36 AM	#4 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Yes. When I babysit I often tell the kids to "go outside and play." I usually read somewhere within line of sight and earshot while they whoop it up; sometimes that place is in the backyard with them and sometimes it is not. Sometimes we go to the park and I sit and read on a bench while they run around like crazy people. Sometimes I play too. Free play, indoors or out, allows kids to use their creativity and imaginations. Outdoor play allows them to be as crazy as they want to be without fear of ruining the furniture or breaking something--and it's great exercise. I wouldn't let a child in my care go off to the store without supervision; that's a decision for a parent to make. When I have children, I'm pretty sure I'll let them walk and go to certain places without my supervision--my parents let us walk all over our neighborhood without supervision as kids, and when we were 8 and 10 it was common for us to walk to the little market a mile from our house. It teaches kids valuable safety skills, and I will have to trust that I did a good job of teaching them those skills. If you keep your child in a bubble all of the time, they never learn those things, and they never get to put them to the test. And my goodness, I love sitting within earshot and overhearing what the kids come up with when they play. They create some of the most interesting games. It saddens me to think that there are kids that miss out on the creative opportunity free play provides. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

09-16-2008, 05:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	My son goes outside to play. There are several kids from neighboring condos that congregate on the lawns between the units and do god knows what. My son loves it. We live on a busy street but because the condo complex has a driveway of sorts, as well as a fence, I feel he is fine playing outside unsupervised. Not only does he love hanging out with his friends, but I get much needed time to myself. It's a win-win situation for both of us. I don't know if I'd give him a bus schedule and some money, but I think there are too many "helicopter parents" and I'm doing my damndest not to be one of them. __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

09-16-2008, 05:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	When in Toronto, I used to encourage my son (at the time he was 9 or so) to walk home from school, go to the store and take public transit to meet me at my office downtown on a regular basis. Now the he is 13, he takes public transit around by himself all the time. I also encourage my 6 year old to go our and play in the playground by herself all the time. Granted, I can see the playground from my window. As she gets older I will be encouraging her to take public transit and explore the city by herself as well. Yes, I will be nervous BUT I think it is important to develop her independence at a young age. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

09-16-2008, 06:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I lived at the end of a cul-de-sac in suburban Utah. Hard to imagine a safer environment to allow kids to roam. Summer evenings, we'd have massive, sprawling, multi-team capture the flag games. Imagine a whole little neighborhood with forty kids on five or six teams running around it, each with their own base. We played that when a team's flag got captured by another team, that team's members became members of the capturing team. So you couldn't really harbor grudges, since your new team just beat your old team--it sucked, but now you were on the winning team. Man, I haven't thought about that in years. GOOD times.

09-16-2008, 06:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	I only was told "Go out and play in the backyard." Our backyard was a half acre, contained an orchard of semi-dwarf fruit trees, a large playhouse, a man-made waterfall, a grassy area, a sandbox, and a small hill smack in the middle. It was entirely a realm for kids, my parents never interfered with our play. We ran to them when we injured ourselves, or sent a sibling/friend to fetch them. We were independent. We were also safe. Honestly, it troubles me when I see a young child riding public transit without an adult. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

09-16-2008, 06:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I always walked to school-it took a half hour so it was probably a half-mile or more. When my sister was 7, some perv tried to take her while she was walking home (this was in 1964) by saying "Your mother told me to give you a ride home." She yelled back, "Oh no she didn't!!" and ran the half mile home...and mom still didn't give us rides, just told us to walk together. But on any given day there were kids marching to and from school like mini-battalions. Safety in numbers, perhaps. I saw Izzy on Penn and Teller's Bullshit!, where they were discussing the "dangers" kids face. Something like 115 kids a year are abducted by strangers, they said. That's incredible odds. My cousins all grew up in Brooklyn. We'd head out, walk around, play in the streets and local parks while the adults visited upstairs and didn't come back until we got tired or bored. Goodness, we even went into elevators alone!!! In the projects!! I admit I might be a bit overprotective. It's hard letting go. I didn't let my kids walk to school until the 5th grade and, since I was actually dropping them off at friends' before I headed to work, they may have gotten rides instead of walking. They were in 6th or 7th grade before I stopped picking them up. And no sooner do I stop getting them that my son gets jumped and beaten in the park on his way home. Here I didn't care for them crossing a main highway and some punk kids became the danger..... But they were always allowed to leave the house and go play with friends in the neighborhood-I encouraged it. Hell, it gave ME some peace and quiet. And now that they're 16, they, especially my daughter, just take off, walk to the malls or down the highway to meet friends. I worry a little, but try to remember I raised them, they should be ok.... This time of instant news has put fear in us. We hear of a child in Texas disappearing and think it will happen in our own town. We have access, thanks to the internet, to the locations of every criminal and seek them out (btdt). We have been inundated with "experts" telling us how we should protect our kids from those horrible monsters. They exist, no doubt, but instead or arming our kids with smarts(like my little sister in 1964), we shroud them in 2008.

09-16-2008, 06:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	WE (my sister and I) went out to play, our only rule was to come home when the street lights came on lol __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

09-17-2008, 09:24 AM	#13 (permalink)
CinnamonGirl She's Actual Size Location: Central Republic of Where-in-the-Hell	Well, maybe it's because I'm not a city kid... but I just don't think that's a good idea at nine! Maybe twelve or so... but not nine. We used to go play outside all the time, and it drives me crazy that my younger cousins are more into video games than outside games. I'm all for sending kids outside... but I'd also be supervising them until they got a little older. __________________ "...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world." "Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

09-17-2008, 10:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
Jozrael Junkie	I fully support this notion. I was overprotected in a sense as a kid, but I grew up in a nice safe neighborhood, so I could go outside and play as much as I wanted to. I'll give my kids the same freedom. Even to use public transit if they want to, but they'll just need to know safety rules/tactics. Always keep their eyes open in every direction, and what to do if they're touched in any way (Immediately scream :P).

09-17-2008, 10:49 AM	#15 (permalink)
kurty[B] Sauce Puppet	How was I raised? Go out and play definitely. As long as I was back by nightfall I was fine. I was not supposed to cross the highway, and since the train tracks and the river were on the other side of the highway I was DEFINITELY not supposed to be near the trains or the river. I did break the rules and played on the trains once, and it did start moving down the tracks while I was playing on a traincar filled with large steel pips. Thanks to being forewarned, and NOT learning physics from movies, I knew better than to jump from the train once it started moving. I stayed on board until it stopped in a town 30 miles away (for a 9 year old I was about as scared as you get). I knew I broke the rules, my parents would be livid if they found out, and found a phone to call my friend down the street, and his parents came and picked me up. To this day I still don't believe my parents have found out about this adventure. The only difference I want for my son, is for him to know it is OK to call me when he gets in trouble. Even when I got older, and drove the family car off a cliff, I had it towed out, went to a junkyard and got all the parts I needed to replace the front end of the car all before my parents got back home. Even though the front end of the car was now a darker shade of red I still tried to get away with not telling them about my "mishap" because I knew what trouble I was in for. I think people don't give kids credit for being as capable as they actually are. __________________ In the Absence of Information People Make Things Up.

09-17-2008, 10:51 AM	#16 (permalink)
Jozrael Junkie	Those are two quite amazing stories.

09-17-2008, 11:40 AM	#17 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	Well, The chance of getting struck by lightning goes way up when you play outside in a thunderstorm. If everyone just let their pre-teens runs free miles, or in this case blocks away from home, "stereotypical kidnappings" would go up. I'm all for sending the kids outside and I spent almost all of my days outside playing. I also remember my mother outside watering her plants, washing her car, picking up crap in the yard, or reading a book on the porch. To us, she wasn't watching us, but now I'm pretty sure she was listening and watching when we were in sight. I don't worry so much when they're together with a few other kids a few blocks away but there's no way I could trust a 9 year old alone in a city. It's not a question of what if something horrible happens, It's a question of how does a kid deal with the situations that aren't so rare. He gets on the wrong train/bus and gets off his route. He'll try to get back himself and get even farther off course. Does he know what to do if his bus is late or he misses it? Can he handle a homeless person begging for change, or he falls into an open manhole!(I heard that happens alot...) It's not the threats you prepare them for, It's the threats you don't know to warn him about because you don't see it as a threat. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

09-17-2008, 02:46 PM	#18 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	I was raised with small town opportunities and play. Bicycling, swimming, walking to school on freeze ass snowy days. I loved it and ran all over. When I was a teen I would go into Chicago, albeit without my parents permission. There was excitement in those urban environs that I still feel today, and that I live in. I raised the children in a small city and they had a lot of freedom at a young age. My oldest would often walk 2 blocks downtown by herself when she was 5-6. They were the same 2 blocks and she new them by heart, as well as all the rules. She did it frequently enough that she became well known along the route and people sort of watched out for her. I would call ahead to ensure that the person would be at her destination, and I would watch her walk there. I thought it was instilling confidence in her, but now she tells me that it was awful of me and that she felt neglected. Who knew?! My youngest walked to school on her first day of kindergarten with her friend who was in first grade. They were so happy and excited, and well versed in the rules. I walked behind at a polite distance and took photos of them all smiley and good. They walked through the neighborhood 3-4 blocks and had to cross a quite busy street, especially during school hours, and by a large public park. When feeling brave they would sometimes walk the other way down a busy thoroughfare after walking through the park and past the high school. They usually walked home and to school together and sometimes picked up other kids along the way. I thought I was instilling freedom and confidence in her, and now she says that I have always been the best mother, her favorite mother, and she loves me very much. See, you never know. __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata Last edited by girldetective; 09-17-2008 at 04:09 PM.. Reason: the to a small

09-19-2008, 10:15 AM	#24 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	or short for Israel... also a boy's name. Izzy Stradlin of GnR fame.... agreed, why does the blame lay anywhere else but the attacker? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

09-17-2008, 02:47 PM	#19 (permalink)
Ayashe Psycho	When I read these articles and view these responses I have to admit that a part of me wonders. Will those supporting kids running off independently also be those who are saying, The Jones' kids are always running on the streets at all hours, the Smith kids are everywhere.. I bet the Johnson's parents don't have half a clue where their kids are most of the time or I can't believe Johnny is out so late. I feel I am a responsible parent. I know where my child is, I have met her friends, I know who is going to be home to supervise etc. I see tossed up frequently the notion that it is all about a unrealistic fear of child abduction or molestation. It isn't at all, at least not for myself. There are many, many things that unattended children, or simply absentee parentism can cause. Is it so wrong that I call to parents ahead and check? I don't think so. I don't allow my daughter to walk to school. I don't live in the most urban environment, but I do know the traffic in those areas and it is horrible for a pedestrian. I also know of at least 2 fatalities of children crossing in those areas. Does it make me overprotective or mean I have common sense to take advantage of a perfectly good bus system? When I and my child were both prepared for her to expand her territory beyond where my voice would carry she gained a cell phone. She carries it with her at all times. Go out and play is just fine, I have no issue with the walks to the park, the hanging out with the friends. I do want to know where she is going, if she is going somewhere else from there, and an absolute must is when she is to come home and if it is further away than usual, a call when she gets there. Does this make me overprotective or does this make me a parent? I feel that there is excellent dialog in my home. We have discussed drugs, alcohol, boys etc all at great length. I actually come from a belief that exposing those topics in film, television etc(no, not porn) so discussion can take place is a positive thing rather than a thing to be avoided. Those are protections yes, but for some kids it is not enough. Some kids definitely need to see an arm out to slow them down as situations can fall quickly out of control when there is peer pressure involved. Live free, learn and grow can easily turn into a parents worst nightmare. Another thing to ponder, is when you have to start a sentence with.. When I am a parent... it isn't advice or wisdom you are sharing, it is an idea or concept. No matter how many babysitting hours you have logged, no matter how many hours you have spent with the little siblings or nieces and nephews.. you haven't been a parent until you have had a child. It is easy to look back at childhood and resent the times you felt that you were ready to take certain steps that weren't allowed. Once you hold that seed in your arms and are watching it grow, your mind changes a little. You start to recall the things you would have done should you have been given the chance and recognize the consequences. It makes you hold on a little bit tighter, it changes your view dramatically.

09-17-2008, 03:36 PM	#20 (permalink)
lotsofmagnets Upright Location: reykjavík, iceland	i saw 5 year old children using the bus alone late at night in austria. i saw children playing at a park at 1am on a weeknight here in iceland in the middle of summer. my parents gave me a lot of freedom as a child as did they with my brother and i seem to recall my friends having the same treatment. yes, things are a little more restricted these days, but on the whole and in most places children still have their freedom. i guess there would be some issues in a plce like central new york but then i wonder what parent would raise their child there anway? __________________ mother nature made the aeroplane, and the submarine sandwich, with the steady hands and dead eye of a remarkable sculptor. she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron. physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?

09-18-2008, 05:06 AM	#21 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I was allowed to go out in the backyard and play if I told my mom I would be outside so she could look out and check on me. The worst I managed to do was "paint" the inside wall of my play house (a little wooden shack that would fit three or four kids) with a bucket of water, pokeweed berries, and mud. That was pretty much the extent of my freedom. I was allowed to ride my bike up and down the street, but God forbid I decided to go around the block or even onto another street. My mom was very overprotective in general, and because of that, I now have a near complete disregard for personal safety, common sense, and conventional wisdom.

09-19-2008, 09:29 PM	#25 (permalink)
new man Banned	I remember playing in the creek behind my house and down the street when I was 6 or 7. We caught crayfish and even drank that nasty creek water. Once I put my hand down on a rock with a piece of broken glass on it. I was running home drinking the blood because I thought it would all run out. You can still see small scar 29 years later. I was given a pocketknife when I was in the cub scouts. When I was ten or 11 we used to ride our bikes all over the neighborhood and into the woods and so forth. When I have kids I will probably be more comfortable because they will have cell phones and instant contact.

09-25-2008, 07:39 PM	#26 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	From age 2 to 7, I lived in a tiny "town". My house had a neighboring house on one side, the yards weren't separated, and a cornfield on the other, and an area where the fence could be crossed. We used to play "Cowboys and Indians" in the cornfields, sled down the slopes in our front-yards, me and my dad would build wood shelters, and I had a tree I claimed for my own. The yard was full of them, big, huge trees, and I don't remember clearly, but I don't remember there being a "limit" to our backyard... Maybe woods or something. My tree was one my favorite places to be, according to my parents. I'd sit there, stare at the sky, play with branches, look for bugs...it was a beautiful place to grow up in. Then we moved to Mexico City. I loved it too, but I wasn't able to really "go out and play" on my own. You see, in the DF (Distrito Federal, the capital), you don't really see houses from the street, you see walls. Or wall high gates that you can see through, but mostly walls, sometimes with barbed wire or shards of glass on top of them to protect the house. You often heard of kidnappings, and being a white kid younger than 12, I was probably even more a choice target. We did have a driver/everyjob kind of guy, which most expats in Mexico have. They know the city (which is a tough place to know or even drive in), and sometimes we'd take walks together to the local park, and then yeah, I'd be free to play around (and trust me, the park near my house was like a kingdom for me...I wish I had pictures...there was empty fountains, playground areas, just an awesome place). But still, not the same as being alone, discovering new things on your own. I'm taking this decision now, my kid will go out and play. If I feel safer with him/her having a cell phone, fine, but I think it's one of the most important things a child can do. And they'll have great memories like I do. Thanks, mom and dad. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

09-25-2008, 07:49 PM	#27 (permalink)
ryfo Psycho Location: melbourne australia	When I was a kid, I wasnt expected to be inside until it got dark, you just stayed outside and played till called for dinner. I have a friend who used to walk her kids 9 and 10 to school and they lived two houses away from the school grounds. This seems way too protective, but I dont have kids of my own.