Student Loans: Should you be able to default on them? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 08-24-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

View: That Student Loan, So Hard to Shake
Source: NYTimes
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That Student Loan, So Hard to Shake
August 24, 2008
By JONATHAN D. GLATER

Tacoma, Wash.

MOST people struggling to pay off their student loans keep quiet about it. They do not want to acknowledge that, perhaps in a fit of naïve, youthful optimism, they borrowed more than they could handle.

Then there is Alan Collinge, who for years has described his struggle with tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt to anyone who will listen. He has appeared on “60 Minutes” criticizing Sallie Mae, the nation’s largest student lender, and has been quoted in the pages of this and other newspapers attacking loan companies.

“I’m sort of the complaint box for the industry,” says Mr. Collinge, who runs a Web site called StudentLoanJustice.org out of his spartan apartment here.

Student lending is a big business, one that has been the subject of many complaints over the past two years after revelations of questionable ties between lenders and colleges’ financial aid officers. More recently, tight credit markets raised the possibility that some students might not be able to borrow to go to college in the fall.

But much less attention has been paid to what happens to students after they borrow. Lenders who make loans guaranteed by the federal government can more easily take steps against borrowers — like garnishing wages and benefits — than they can with other kinds of unsecured consumer debts. And all student loans, federally guaranteed or not, are extremely hard to get rid of in bankruptcy proceedings, more so than credit card or other debt.

More borrowers may begin to discover the harrowing consequences of reneging on student loans in the current economy. Numbers of borrowers behind on payments and in outright default are rising for some types of loans, and the tight job market makes it harder for graduates to find jobs that let them pay off debts. At the same time, investors are pressuring lenders to raise revenue by minimizing losses. Investors also expect more revenue from those lenders that operate collection agencies.

To many people, the special treatment of student loans sometimes seems appropriate, but at other times unduly harsh. Usually, people do not learn just how powerfully the law protects student loans until something goes unexpectedly wrong in their lives.

Donna Troestler, 47, who graduated from the University of Wisconsin, Oshkosh, in 1998 with a degree in biology and microbiology, was traveling to sell scientific instruments in 1999 when she suffered an injury that caused recurring problems. It took years for her to figure out what kind of work she could do, given her new health limitations; in the meantime, she deferred payments on about $23,000 in loans.

“I never thought in a million years that I was ever going to have a problem with working and making money,” Ms. Troestler said. In 2002, she defaulted on her loans, which then ballooned with fees and penalties to $63,000, she said. In 2003, she found a job at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, where she still works. But then she found that her wages had been garnished, taking about $500 a month from her $2,500 take-home pay, she said.

“All of this was terribly embarrassing to me,” Ms. Troestler said. Later, a man she was dating helped pay off her student debts, in 2006, but then the two split up because of tension over the loans, she said.

IT is hard to tell how widespread repayment problems are. The overall default rate calculated by the federal Education Department was under 5 percent in 2005, the most recent data available. But that figure includes only defaults within two years of beginning repayment.

A 2006 study by the department’s National Center for Education Statistics followed federal loan borrowers for 10 years, ending in 2003-4, and found that nearly 10 percent defaulted. (The average debt among the two-thirds of 2003-4 college graduates who use loans is about $20,000, according to the College Board.) And with more students borrowing, more students are potentially at risk.

Garrett Mockler filed for bankruptcy protection in December 2004, after months of struggling to make payments on credit cards as well as on $40,000 in student loans. He was working multiple jobs as a teacher, dancer and choreographer in Los Angeles after earning a Master of Fine Arts in 2003.

His lenders wanted more than $400 a month on top of credit card debt, Mr. Mockler said. “All my bills started piling up,” he said. “It was either pay one bill or pay another or not eat or not have a roof over my head.”

He had to scrimp to save $200 for the bankruptcy filing. Then he emerged from bankruptcy and found that all his student loans had stuck with him. While the federal government gave him more forgiving repayment terms on his guaranteed loans, he said, the company that had made him a private, or unguaranteed, loan had no incentive to negotiate a payment plan with him because he had no way to avoid the obligation.

While trying to learn more about student loans and his rights in dealing with lenders, Mr. Mockler said he came across StudentLoanJustice.org, Mr. Collinge’s site.

Mr. Collinge founded a political action committee in 2007 that was named after the site. His top goal is to have the bankruptcy law changed to put limits on how and for how long lenders can pursue debtors. His organization now has about 3,000 members, many of whom have shared debt woes on the site. Over the past year, he says, he has raised just over $12,000 — a sum that reflects his constituents’ financial constraints.

To raise awareness of student loans, he embarked last year on a trip that took him through 42 states in an effort to meet with staff members of every lawmaker on the Senate and House education committees. Money raised by his PAC has not yet covered his costs, and the R.V. he drove (and is now trying to sell) still bears scars of the trip.

Representatives of loan companies are not fond of Mr. Collinge’s tactics. He has called loan company executives at home to criticize their corporate policies, and sent the occasional profanity-laced e-mail message to lender advocates.

“He’s had a lot of problems paying his loans back, and he’s spent an awful lot of time out there talking about his problems rather than trying to pay his loans back,” said Tom Joyce, a spokesman for Sallie Mae.

Student loans raise serious issues, Mr. Joyce said, “but he’s just the wrong poster child.”

Mr. Collinge acknowledges that at least some of the e-mail messages and phone calls he has made were inappropriate, but he maintains that the sentiments expressed were genuine. His words may simply reflect the resentment of thousands of borrowers who are too embarrassed to talk about their debts publicly.

In conversation about anything other than student loans, Mr. Collinge, 38, comes across as laid-back and easygoing. He takes salsa and tango classes and goes bicycling in a park overlooking Puget Sound.

Mr. Collinge said he did not set out to be a student loan activist. But he backed himself into a corner in his research job at the California Institute of Technology in 2001 by asking for a raise. When he did not get one, he quit.

He said he found himself underemployed and gradually overwhelmed by about $38,000 in federal student loans; his lender wouldn’t grant a forbearance, he said. He had borrowed to study toward his two degrees and a certification, all in aerospace engineering, at the University of Southern California.

He went into default in 2001, and over the next three years his debt, with interest and fees, grew to $100,000. His best shot at a job, involving work for a military contractor, vanished when his debts kept him from passing a security check, he said.

The Education Department said in a statement Friday that it and others had tried to work with Mr. Collinge, and in February 2008 offered to waive accrued interest and fees.

Driven by frustrations like the security check, Mr. Collinge has devoted himself full time to learning about student loans and has supported himself with various jobs; this year he spent a few months working for a landscaping business, for example, and received an $8,000 advance for a book on student loans. He has found out what many a struggling former student found out before him: Short of paying them off, student loans are awfully hard to get rid of.

Without a court order, lenders — or, more likely, collection agents — can garnish up to 15 percent of wages of borrowers who have defaulted on federally guaranteed loans, said Deanne Loonin, a lawyer at the National Consumer Law Center in Boston. Lenders and collection agents can also intercept tax refunds, Social Security payments and even this year’s stimulus checks from the government.

“It’s really unbelievable,” Ms. Loonin said.

DEBTORS can shed credit card debt and other unsecured obligations through bankruptcy but can get out of student loans only if they can show “undue hardship.” That term is not defined by the bankruptcy code and, lawyers said, judges often take a narrow view of its meaning.

“The cases are so harsh in measuring what an undue hardship is that anybody who is working and maintaining any kind of home life has very little chance of discharging these things in bankruptcy,” said Cathleen Cooper Moran, a bankruptcy lawyer in Palo Alto, Calif.

There are some compelling reasons to make it difficult for student borrowers to get out of their debts. Lenders have no collateral, like a house or car, to seize. That makes them riskier.

In the case of federal loans, the government is effectively subsidizing students both by guaranteeing the amounts borrowed and by setting loan terms that are usually more favorable than those of private loans. Because the government’s guarantee puts taxpayer money at risk when a borrower defaults, one argument goes, bankruptcy law should hinder the cancellation of federal debts — and it does.

In 2005, Congress modified the bankruptcy code to make it as hard to get rid of private student loans as it is to eliminate federal loans. Private loans have been one of the fastest-growing ways for students and families to pay for college, rising to $17.1 billion in 2006-7 from $2 billion 10 years earlier, according to the nonprofit College Board. Students often use private loans to fill the gap between the cost of attendance and the funds available through federal loans and other aid.

The argument for the change on private loans is a bit different.

“At the time that people graduate from school, almost everybody is technically eligible for bankruptcy because they have debts that exceed their assets,” said Shelly Repp, general counsel at the National Council for Higher Education Loan Programs, whose members include lenders, collection agencies and guarantors. “Why would anyone lend you money if you had the option to walk away?”

But even Sallie Mae, a major source of private loans, is not opposed to modifying the bankruptcy code’s treatment of them, said Mr. Joyce, perhaps by making it possible for students to dump debts in bankruptcy after trying for a specified number of years to pay them off.

“What we’d like to see is that people who have made a good-faith effort to repay their student loans, but for whatever reasons have hit a hard patch or hit a difficult stretch, that there be some flexibility,” Mr. Joyce said. “It may be time to look at that.”

Perceptions of student lending have shifted sharply as tightness in credit markets has led some companies to stop making certain kinds of loans, forcing some students to switch lenders.

Last year, reports of questionable relationships between financial aid offices and lenders cast both in an unfavorable light. Lawmakers in Washington have approved legislation intended to ban such ties and have raised the amounts that students and their families can borrow through federal programs.

Mr. Collinge is not giving up. On a warm and sunny Thursday afternoon this month, a few members of Student Loan Justice joined him to hand out pamphlets in front of the government office building in Seattle where Senator Patty Murray, Democrat of Washington and a member of the Senate education committee, has an office.

“I’m fighting the system,” Mr. Collinge told one young passerby. The man declined to accept a pamphlet then, but when he passed by again a little later, he took one.

I never took out loans for college. In fact, I was fortunate that I didn't need to continue college and was able to secure work as an IT professional as the industry was just growing by leaps and bounds. I also didn't want to take out loans that I knew I had no choice to pay for.

My parents forecast wasn't as much as what was needed to put me through school. So I gave it up, and let them pay for my sister's schooling. I paid for my schooling, and then when my parents offered to pay me back, I just asked for electronic equipment.

Skogafoss on the other hand took out loans. She is a graduate from NYU with some degree in Radio/TV/Film. She doesn't really work in that industry any longer. We paid those loans off completely before we purchased our first property together.

Borrow money for Liberal Arts degree and then take a job doing something completely related didn't sound like a great idea to me, but I can see doing it. I also didn't see any reason to just take out loans for any reason, so I never have had high debts student loan or credit based.

I agree that student loans should not be forgiven under ANY circumstances. It is something that you will have with you for the rest of your life, just like the education that was given to you. If you didn't do much with that education while in school or even afterwards, that's not up for debate. It frankly isn't my concern for the "few" that have hardship. Life is hard, you make choices and then live with situations that come up after you make those choices. It is what makes life, life.

snowy · 08-24-2008, 11:43 AM

I think they need to more explicitly define what "undue hardship" is, just so that the law can do what it's supposed to do without leaving it completely in the hands of judges. The law is already on the books, it just needs to be clarified, and standards of what "undue hardship" is need to be established. Doing that isn't a free pass to default--or shouldn't be, at the very least.

And there is a surprising amount of ability to negotiate with private lenders--I have loans serviced through Sallie Mae, and while I feel some of their business practices aren't the best, they've done a fairly good job of being flexible with me in terms of repayment. But I have a safety net that other people do not have when times get tough.

But no, I don't believe you should be able to default on student loans unless you can demonstrate "undue hardship" as it is defined--the problem is that it isn't defined.

Seaver · 08-24-2008, 01:59 PM

Why should you be able to default? They have NOTHING to get from you other than the threat of ruining your credit. If you default on your house they take it, which is the teeth of the agreement. If you default on your car you lose it, again that is the teeth.

What can these companies do? Are they going to take your diploma away?

The truth is student loans have helped cause the largest explosion of education the world has ever known. This man (NOT a kid) couldn't control his expenses... I have little sympathy.

Quote:

Garrett Mockler filed for bankruptcy protection in December 2004, after months of struggling to make payments on credit cards as well as on $40,000 in student loans. He was working multiple jobs as a teacher, dancer and choreographer in Los Angeles after earning a Master of Fine Arts in 2003.

Easy life choice.. he stayed around college beyond getting his bachelors degree. I couldn't afford to stick around and immediately get my Masters, so I'm working. Hundreds of Thousands of graduates make this decision based on economic reality... he's too good for it and expects our sympathy? Get in the working world as a teacher and any school system will pay the majority of the money to get the masters.

jewels · 08-24-2008, 02:06 PM

No. No more coddling.

Welcome to the worlds of adulthood and credit.

Ayashe · 08-24-2008, 02:30 PM

If times are truly tough and you cannot make your payments contact your lender and ask for a forbearance. They are generally rather easy to get by making a simple phone call. This puts a halt on your payments for six months without any penalty to your credit. Six months to get yourself back on track, focus on paying your credit card or whatever other irresponsible money owed. Time to get your job, catch up on whatever. Personally I have never heard of any other type loans that are so forgiving. I don't see what the problem is. I agree with you jewels on your coddling comment. You make your bed, you can sleep in it too.

Redjake · 08-24-2008, 03:27 PM

I don't think you should be able to default on them, but I do think there needs to be a better system in place for students who are paying their way through college.

#1) Teachers, under any circumstance, should go to college for free. That would fix the "lack of teachers" problem, and make it so their horrible starting salary isn't so horrible. If my wife had student loans (luckily she doesn't), and wasn't married to me, she literally wouldn't be able to live by herself on her salary and make the payments. I am making almost twice of what she makes, and we started our jobs at the same time.

#2) There should be discounts for students paying their way through college, especially on supplies and books and stuff. It really annoyed me seeing other students complain that their credit card their parents "gave them" was maxed out because of alcohol and food and they had to wait 'til their parents paid the bill before getting anymore "liquor." While me and my brother were working 20+ hours per week along with 18 hours a week classes just to be able to afford food and supplies.

#3) There should be a tuition decrease for those with a good GPA in college. Let's say it's $10,000 a year for 4 years. If you have above a 3.0 GPA in college, it should decrease by $2000 per year or something.

All of this would help with the financial burden of student loans.

One positive note: financial lenders don't give a flying fuck about your student loans when getting approved for credit or loans!

xepherys · 08-24-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels

No. No more coddling.

Welcome to the worlds of adulthood and credit.

QFT! That's all that needs to be said.

ASU2003 · 08-24-2008, 04:16 PM

No, but I think interest and fees should be kept in check too.

I wish other loans were harder to get and have tough repayment terms as well. Sure, some unforeseen circumstances come up and should get a break. So instead of a 60 month loan, it becomes a 61 or 62 month loan if you need to pay off something else for one or two months.

uncle phil · 08-24-2008, 04:19 PM

you're playing with my freaking money!!!

Lasereth · 08-24-2008, 05:50 PM

No, you shouldn't be able to, but something needs to be done about student loans in general. I beg an answer: why in the fuck are my student loans and grants based on my parents' income if they're NOT PAYING FOR MY COLLEGE?

They gross over $100k easy and didn't pay for my college so I didn't get any grants or good loans or scholarships because they're all based on what my parents make even though they didn't help me one damn bit. Fix that shit and we can talk.

Cynthetiq · 08-24-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

No, you shouldn't be able to, but something needs to be done about student loans in general. I beg an answer: why in the fuck are my student loans and grants based on my parents' income if they're NOT PAYING FOR MY COLLEGE?

They gross over $100k easy and didn't pay for my college so I didn't get any grants or good loans or scholarships because they're all based on what my parents make even though they didn't help me one damn bit. Fix that shit and we can talk.

Your parents could have easily loaned you the money but chose not to.

Your parents could have easily paid for your college but chose not to.

Your parents probably still took the standard deductions for you until you were 23.

You could have planned for it in advance and took emancipation to make sure that you were financially on your own. Which would have allowed for you to get better loans, grants, and scholarships. Even without that, I believe you'd have to only suffer for 2 years until you could have reapplied for those same loans, grants, and scholarships.

Why should I bankroll your college if your parents could have afforded it? Your parents made a choice. Take it up with them.

filtherton · 08-24-2008, 07:46 PM

I think college should be free, so I guess I wouldn't have a problem if loans were forgiven.

I know that I'm glad I waited until I was 24 to start going to college, otherwise, I wouldn't have gotten any of Cynthetiq's or Uncle Phil's money to pay my rent.

Cynthetiq · 08-24-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

I think college should be free, so I guess I wouldn't have a problem if loans were forgiven.

I know that I'm glad I waited until I was 24 to start going to college, otherwise, I wouldn't have gotten any of Cynthetiq's or Uncle Phil's money to pay my rent.

I'm happy to pay for it since as a college graduate you're increased income will pay higher taxes than someone who isn't (yes, I know it's a generalization, but that's still.) It's a win win. I'm just not happy for someone who gets something for nothing.

Willravel · 08-24-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redjake

I don't think you should be able to default on them, but I do think there needs to be a better system in place for students who are paying their way through college.

#1) Teachers, under any circumstance, should go to college for free. That would fix the "lack of teachers" problem, and make it so their horrible starting salary isn't so horrible. If my wife had student loans (luckily she doesn't), and wasn't married to me, she literally wouldn't be able to live by herself on her salary and make the payments. I am making almost twice of what she makes, and we started our jobs at the same time.

#2) There should be discounts for students paying their way through college, especially on supplies and books and stuff. It really annoyed me seeing other students complain that their credit card their parents "gave them" was maxed out because of alcohol and food and they had to wait 'til their parents paid the bill before getting anymore "liquor." While me and my brother were working 20+ hours per week along with 18 hours a week classes just to be able to afford food and supplies.

#3) There should be a tuition decrease for those with a good GPA in college. Let's say it's $10,000 a year for 4 years. If you have above a 3.0 GPA in college, it should decrease by $2000 per year or something.

All of this would help with the financial burden of student loans.

HALLELUJAH! I couldn't agree more. I might have become a teacher if the tuition was free, despite the low payment teachers get.

filtherton · 08-24-2008, 07:58 PM

Fair enough. If I had gone earlier I probably would have gotten the kind of degree that doesn't pay for itself, so it is a win win for everybody.

inBOIL · 08-24-2008, 11:21 PM

I don't see why student loans should be treated any differently than any other loans. Only if you are permanently unable to do any kind of work and you still have debts after your assets are seized should you be allowed to default.

MSD · 08-25-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redjake

One positive note: financial lenders don't give a flying fuck about your student loans when getting approved for credit or loans!

AmEx does, but most others don't. I was declined for a student card from them because of excessive credit limit before I had any other cards.

new man · 08-25-2008, 06:55 AM

One other thing to consider is that student loans typically have a lower interest rate than other forms of debt.

My sister chose to go back and finish her bachelor's and then do a one year masters program at a fairly expensive private college in DC. Ten years later she still has 30 or 40k of debt on her teacher's salary. She could have gone back to UMD and had half the debt. For my master's, I took one or two online or night courses for about 4 years, and finished debt free.

guthmund · 08-25-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redjake

I don't think you should be able to default on them, but I do think there needs to be a better system in place for students who are paying their way through college.

#1) Teachers, under any circumstance, should go to college for free. That would fix the "lack of teachers" problem, and make it so their horrible starting salary isn't so horrible. If my wife had student loans (luckily she doesn't), and wasn't married to me, she literally wouldn't be able to live by herself on her salary and make the payments. I am making almost twice of what she makes, and we started our jobs at the same time.

#2) There should be discounts for students paying their way through college, especially on supplies and books and stuff. It really annoyed me seeing other students complain that their credit card their parents "gave them" was maxed out because of alcohol and food and they had to wait 'til their parents paid the bill before getting anymore "liquor." While me and my brother were working 20+ hours per week along with 18 hours a week classes just to be able to afford food and supplies.

#3) There should be a tuition decrease for those with a good GPA in college. Let's say it's $10,000 a year for 4 years. If you have above a 3.0 GPA in college, it should decrease by $2000 per year or something.

All of this would help with the financial burden of student loans.

One positive note: financial lenders don't give a flying fuck about your student loans when getting approved for credit or loans!

HALLELUJAH, INDEED!

There's certainly something wrong with the system as it stands today. I don't have any definitive ideas myself, but I'd say your 3 are a pretty damn good start.

Charlatan · 08-25-2008, 02:26 PM

No, you shouldn't be able to default on them but there should be allowances on interest rates and the length of time it takes to pay them back (based on the amount of income the person is making out of school).

I would say there should also be considerations for vocations such as teachers and doctors when there are shortages.

Seaver · 08-25-2008, 04:34 PM

Why should there be so much temperance for student loans? Education, believe it or not, is an investment. You put down $X and Y (time) in return for X (Job Status) and $Y.

If you claim education for the sake of education... stop fooling yourself. You could have had all of that for $10 at a public library.

View Poll Results: Should you be able to default on student loans without penalty?
Yes.	1	4.17%
No.	22	91.67%
Maybe, within reasons I'll explain below.	1	4.17%
I don't care.	0	0%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

08-24-2008, 11:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	I think they need to more explicitly define what "undue hardship" is, just so that the law can do what it's supposed to do without leaving it completely in the hands of judges. The law is already on the books, it just needs to be clarified, and standards of what "undue hardship" is need to be established. Doing that isn't a free pass to default--or shouldn't be, at the very least. And there is a surprising amount of ability to negotiate with private lenders--I have loans serviced through Sallie Mae, and while I feel some of their business practices aren't the best, they've done a fairly good job of being flexible with me in terms of repayment. But I have a safety net that other people do not have when times get tough. But no, I don't believe you should be able to default on student loans unless you can demonstrate "undue hardship" as it is defined--the problem is that it isn't defined. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

08-24-2008, 02:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	No. No more coddling. Welcome to the worlds of adulthood and credit. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

08-24-2008, 03:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
Redjake I'm a family man - I run a family business. Location: Wilson, NC	I don't think you should be able to default on them, but I do think there needs to be a better system in place for students who are paying their way through college. #1) Teachers, under any circumstance, should go to college for free. That would fix the "lack of teachers" problem, and make it so their horrible starting salary isn't so horrible. If my wife had student loans (luckily she doesn't), and wasn't married to me, she literally wouldn't be able to live by herself on her salary and make the payments. I am making almost twice of what she makes, and we started our jobs at the same time. #2) There should be discounts for students paying their way through college, especially on supplies and books and stuff. It really annoyed me seeing other students complain that their credit card their parents "gave them" was maxed out because of alcohol and food and they had to wait 'til their parents paid the bill before getting anymore "liquor." While me and my brother were working 20+ hours per week along with 18 hours a week classes just to be able to afford food and supplies. #3) There should be a tuition decrease for those with a good GPA in college. Let's say it's $10,000 a year for 4 years. If you have above a 3.0 GPA in college, it should decrease by $2000 per year or something. All of this would help with the financial burden of student loans. One positive note: financial lenders don't give a flying fuck about your student loans when getting approved for credit or loans! __________________ Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

08-24-2008, 04:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	you're playing with my freaking money!!! __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

08-24-2008, 02:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ayashe Psycho	If times are truly tough and you cannot make your payments contact your lender and ask for a forbearance. They are generally rather easy to get by making a simple phone call. This puts a halt on your payments for six months without any penalty to your credit. Six months to get yourself back on track, focus on paying your credit card or whatever other irresponsible money owed. Time to get your job, catch up on whatever. Personally I have never heard of any other type loans that are so forgiving. I don't see what the problem is. I agree with you jewels on your coddling comment. You make your bed, you can sleep in it too.

08-24-2008, 04:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	No, but I think interest and fees should be kept in check too. I wish other loans were harder to get and have tough repayment terms as well. Sure, some unforeseen circumstances come up and should get a break. So instead of a 60 month loan, it becomes a 61 or 62 month loan if you need to pay off something else for one or two months.

08-24-2008, 05:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	No, you shouldn't be able to, but something needs to be done about student loans in general. I beg an answer: why in the fuck are my student loans and grants based on my parents' income if they're NOT PAYING FOR MY COLLEGE? They gross over $100k easy and didn't pay for my college so I didn't get any grants or good loans or scholarships because they're all based on what my parents make even though they didn't help me one damn bit. Fix that shit and we can talk.

08-24-2008, 07:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think college should be free, so I guess I wouldn't have a problem if loans were forgiven. I know that I'm glad I waited until I was 24 to start going to college, otherwise, I wouldn't have gotten any of Cynthetiq's or Uncle Phil's money to pay my rent.

08-24-2008, 07:58 PM	#15 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Fair enough. If I had gone earlier I probably would have gotten the kind of degree that doesn't pay for itself, so it is a win win for everybody.

08-24-2008, 11:21 PM	#16 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	I don't see why student loans should be treated any differently than any other loans. Only if you are permanently unable to do any kind of work and you still have debts after your assets are seized should you be allowed to default. __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

08-25-2008, 06:55 AM	#18 (permalink)
new man Banned	One other thing to consider is that student loans typically have a lower interest rate than other forms of debt. My sister chose to go back and finish her bachelor's and then do a one year masters program at a fairly expensive private college in DC. Ten years later she still has 30 or 40k of debt on her teacher's salary. She could have gone back to UMD and had half the debt. For my master's, I took one or two online or night courses for about 4 years, and finished debt free.

08-25-2008, 02:26 PM	#20 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	No, you shouldn't be able to default on them but there should be allowances on interest rates and the length of time it takes to pay them back (based on the amount of income the person is making out of school). I would say there should also be considerations for vocations such as teachers and doctors when there are shortages. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-25-2008, 04:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	Why should there be so much temperance for student loans? Education, believe it or not, is an investment. You put down $X and Y (time) in return for X (Job Status) and $Y. If you claim education for the sake of education... stop fooling yourself. You could have had all of that for $10 at a public library. __________________ "Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas