Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > General Discussion


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-03-2008, 07:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
The girl in the window

Quote:
View: The girl in the window
Source: Tampabay.com
posted with the TFP thread generator

The girl in the window
The girl in the window
By Lane DeGregory, Times Staff Writer

Published Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:35 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Part One: The Feral Child

PLANT CITY — The family had lived in the rundown rental house for almost three years when someone first saw a child's face in the window.

A little girl, pale, with dark eyes, lifted a dirty blanket above the broken glass and peered out, one neighbor remembered.

Everyone knew a woman lived in the house with her boyfriend and two adult sons. But they had never seen a child there, had never noticed anyone playing in the overgrown yard.

The girl looked young, 5 or 6, and thin. Too thin. Her cheeks seemed sunken; her eyes were lost.

The child stared into the square of sunlight, then slipped away.

Months went by. The face never reappeared.
more here   click to show 

This is a gut wrenching story and one article that has many topics that can come from it.

There's the development and importance of human interaction and what is required to be. From Maslow's hierarchy of needs there is Love & Belonging, it is an important need to be fulfilled. I recall people saying that they believe the worst feelings in the world #1 being hungry, and #2 being lonely.

Another way that this can be digested is just how much DHS/CPS fail and how often they succeed. When they fail, it seems like such a huge failure. This case and the Murder of Nixzmary Brown are great examples of how they fail to protect children.

I don't think that this makes it any easier for me to decide to want to have children. I just don't think that I want to bring a child into this world, let alone be responsible for raising it.

What are some of your thoughts after reading this article?
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:55 AM   #2 (permalink)
I'm a family man - I run a family business.
 
Redjake's Avatar
 
Location: Wilson, NC
with great power comes great responsibility. I am going to have kids because I know im in a situation good enough to do so. this in no way influences my decision!
Redjake is offline  
Old 08-04-2008, 05:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
You had me at hello
 
Poppinjay's Avatar
 
Location: DC/Coastal VA
Few, if any of her needs were met. Part of this that seems a canard on the part of the mother is the fact that she tested an IQ of 77, but had been a university student. I couldn't have gotten into my school with that IQ, and it's just your run of the mill university. I wonder if she screwed the test so as to garner better judgement conditions, or if years of drug abuse fucked her up? That's almost always the problem in cases where families are kept in squalor, or large numbers of pets are kept (as it sounds like the mother is currently doing).

There is always the odd case of somebody just being completely incompetent. That was the case here in DC recently with a sensational story about a borderline retarded woman who killed her daughters and stored the corpses because they had "demons". CPS failed big time in that case, as this woman had been reported multiple times. Case workers falsified documents about having visited her. While I sympathize with truly dedicated case workers, so many in DC get these positions as political favors in an entirely broken government welfare system.

As far as Dani and her hierarchy, children who survived the holocaust managed to rebound over years of perserverance, although most did not.

This story makes me re-think mandated sterilization.
__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet
Poppinjay is offline  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:24 AM   #4 (permalink)
Eat your vegetables
 
genuinegirly's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Arabidopsis-ville
I am pleased to read that Dani's adoptive parents have been able to provide a nurturing environment. I do hope that their son does not feel slighted, doesn't sound like he does. I am bothered by the situation with the birth mother. Was there no attempt to educate Michelle on acceptable cleanliness standards? I am saddened that no one has been able to explain to her exactly why her child was taken from her. I do not understand why her current residence seems habitable while the previous residence violated health standards.


I hope that Dani can be rehabilitated. I would like to hear an autobiography of her life experiences.
__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy
genuinegirly is offline  
Old 08-04-2008, 12:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
Eccentric insomniac
 
Slims's Avatar
 
Location: North Carolina
The mom should be locked up for the rest of her life. And the brothers as well for being accessories to that degree of abuse.
__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence
Slims is offline  
Old 08-04-2008, 05:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
Insane
 
speshul-k's Avatar
 
I am amazed that anyone could let another human being, let alone their own flesh and blood live in such squalor.
What the hell was this mother thinking?! And I use that term very loosely... as mother implies something with meaning!
speshul-k is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 07:43 AM   #7 (permalink)
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
 
Bill O'Rights's Avatar
 
Location: In the dust of the archives
Quote:
Danielle's birth mother did not want to give her up even though she had been charged with child abuse and faced 20 years in prison. So prosecutors offered a deal: If she waived her parental rights, they wouldn't send her to jail.
Why was she given that option?

While I understand that different people have different "standards", this goes far and above what a normal person would find even remotely "acceptable". But, it's easy to armchair quarterback this situation with 20/20 hindsight.

Is the DHHS at fault?
Perhaps. But then again, they're always in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Not to mention being overwhelmed under a staggering case load. What can be expected?

If the birth mother was telling the truth about attempting to enrole Danielle in school, and not finding one that would accept her, then perhaps that raises some more questions. While it is understandable, given Danielle's "condition", that she could not attend a mainstream school, why were no red flags raised? Or, were there? If it ever even happened.

How much government involvment are we willing to tolerate in order to insure that this doesn't happen again? I mean, upon birth a child could be placed into a centralized database that could monitor doctor visits, school enrolement, etc. It could make sure that no child simply falls off of the radar. But, it's invasive, for those of us that do do what we're supposed to. Not to mention expensive.

So what's the answer? I mean besides the kneejerk reactions of outrage? What can reasonably be done to ensure that the "Michelles" in this world are not allowed to let their "Danielles" fall through the cracks of our undeniably broken system?
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Last edited by Bill O'Rights; 08-05-2008 at 07:48 AM..
Bill O'Rights is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 07:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
abaya's Avatar
 
Location: Iceland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights View Post
But, it's invasive, for those of us that do do what we're supposed to. Not to mention expensive.
I wouldn't mind either of these things, if I knew that it ensured the well-being of children such as this one. But I am a big fan of paying tons more taxes and having the government (not the present administration, though) be a hell of a lot more responsible/involved than they are--so I guess we're on different sides there.
__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

--Khalil Gibran
abaya is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 08:21 AM   #9 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
We've had some really crazy threads here about DHS/CPS, which google brought us the fruit and nut basket prize.

Yes, I think that it isn't 100% effective, but at the same time it does help more people than zero. There were people who came only to post in that thread, and they didn't think much of DHS/CPS. When it fails, it fails massively.

But I'm not interested in government programs picking up the slack. There are many NGOs in my neighborhood that seem to keep our space humming right along.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 08:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
 
Bill O'Rights's Avatar
 
Location: In the dust of the archives
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaya View Post
I guess we're on different sides there.
Probably.

My experience with the government, and it goes well beyond this administration, is that things are black and white. It's this, or it's that. You're either for us, or you're ag'in us. There are no shades of gray. So, who decides what the levels of acceptability are?

Although...I might be persuaded to go along with something along the lines of my "database" idea. I mean, even the city of Omaha knows to send me a license renewal notice for my dog. Point there is...someone's paying attention. At least when it comes to revenue.
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.
Bill O'Rights is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 08:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaya View Post
I wouldn't mind either of these things, if I knew that it ensured the well-being of children such as this one. But I am a big fan of paying tons more taxes and having the government (not the present administration, though) be a hell of a lot more responsible/involved than they are--so I guess we're on different sides there.
I didn't see the "not the present administration though" comment.

but we don't know or can predict what future administrations are. So we pay into the system thinking that we're going to get something out or from the system at some point in time. this is why I temper my amount of money I'm willing to contribute to any program because there is always the chance of a bungling or disagreeable administration.

but, something interesting you've extended the DHS/CPS to the federal level, when in fact it isn't federalized, but differs from state to state, city to city.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 08:59 AM   #12 (permalink)
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
 
Bill O'Rights's Avatar
 
Location: In the dust of the archives
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq View Post
but, something interesting you've extended the DHS/CPS to the federal level, when in fact it isn't federalized, but differs from state to state, city to city.
Which is as it should be.

However, for something like my "database" to be effective, it would have to be federalized. Otherwise, "Michelle" could just skip from town to town, from state to state. Even the DOT came up with the CDL for commercial driver's. It's still issued by the state, but falls under a federal database to monitor driver's records. At one time, drivers could all to easily maintain several licenses from several states. Point one license out from too many infractions, whip out the next one. The CDL put an end to that. Plus penalties are stiffer for CDL holders. And, best of all, it's funded by the increased cost of actually carrying a CDL.

My original question stands. How involved are we willing to allow the government to be? Federal, state or local.
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Last edited by Bill O'Rights; 08-05-2008 at 09:02 AM..
Bill O'Rights is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 04:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
Upright
 
We have a huge problem nearby in Philly, Pa with the way children are not protected and caseworkers routinely forge paperwork to cover up non-enforcement.

Well, last year another child starved too death in much the same scenario as the very sad story that opens this thread. Last week a Grand Jury indicted eight individuals, including Ma and Pa AND a close friend who watched this little girl starve to death.

No doubt the defense will be a pre-occupation with 'cracking up' that distracted the three from their duty to care for a child. Knowing the Philly court system they will all be sentenced to rehab and given more welfare money.

The child services dropped the ball on so many levels and so many officials knew about this case and ignored it. When the kid died they all forged paperwork and or lied about their knowledge of the case.

With a eighteen open files you'd think the caseworker could maybe do her job?

Screw giving the government more money to fix a culture of iresponsibility. Lets put a few of them in jail to hammer home the point that you don't let kids starve to death under your care.

The city of Philadelphia is a case study of how badly government can fail when a population loses the will (and need) to provide for itself. Its a scandal a week down here. BTW, this has been a Democrat governed disaster for at least fifty years.
No Republicans down here to blame.
victrola is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 10:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
Tilted
 
TheNasty's Avatar
 
Sad yet amazing story. Random thoughts I had while reading it.

The state had to plead down the mothers sentence in order for her to give up her parenting rights? That ludicrous. She was not that child's mother. There really should be legal standards of parenthood that go slightly beyond giving birth.

Amazing that people are what make people, people. Without other people a human being doesn't develop into a human being. Thought provoking.

Social services are filled with people who genuinely care but have their hands tied with bureaucracy, and it's filled with people who really don't care about anything and are there for a paycheck. If the public pays for social services, we really should stand up and ensure that they are filled with the best amongst us. It's disheartening and seems that our social services are being filled with people who ignore the "social service" part of the job. I'm still young, what little contact I've had with the workers of our government hasn't been pleasant.

DHS isn't perfect but this is 2008, a girl seen by the system but ignored to this point is beyond the realm of comprehension.

This article really made me sad.
TheNasty is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 10:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
<3 TFP
 
xepherys's Avatar
 
Location: 17TLH2445607250
I don't even know what I think about this story yet. I constantly am reminded why I am disgusted with humanity these days. But then, there are bright spots, like the adoptive parents, that make it all worth while. There are decent people in this indecent time. Sadly just not many!
__________________
The prospect of achieving a peace agreement with the extremist group of MILF is almost impossible...
-- Emmanuel Pinol, Governor of Cotobato


My Homepage
xepherys is offline  
 

Tags
girl, window


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:41 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360