Zeraph

Anyone in it? Anyone going to Highlands next month, or Estrella next year?I just started 6 weeks or so ago. Learning how to make armor, sew period clothing, and fight is pretty fun.

For those who don't know, it's a society all over the world that recreates history with a focus on fighting. Several times a year we get together and have big wars with like 200 fighters for the smaller, and 1000+ fighters for the bigger.

Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. Is their main website if you're curious or ask and I'll try to answer.

GSRIDER

A friend and I were talking about going to a newbie meeting. It's something I've always secretly wanted to get involved in.

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Halx

How fitting that their website looks ancient.

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Daniel_

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telekinetic

SCA used to be somehow involved with Boy Scout campouts, so we would get to put armor on and beat on eachother with rattan 'swords'.

The_Jazz

Umm, I was an Eagle Scout and in the OA. I think you had one of those "funny" scoutmasters.

I'm sorry, but I can't think of the SCA in any context that does not involve a woman that I went to school with that wanted to be a tree and would stand for hours out in the grass, swaying back and forth. She was huge into SCA and used to hang SCA posters around campus in inappropriate places - like in urinals. Then again, she was the one who locked herself out of her room when her boyfriend was tied to a bed and had to get Buildings & Grounds to let her in.

However, before my opinion of SCA was sullied by that individual, it was fun to watch them beat the hell out of each other in the park when I was in high school. There was even a guy who worked full-time as a blacksmith that would make armor on the side and sell it. When you're 12, there's not much cooler than armor for sale, especially if you're scrawny and kind of geeky.

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snowy

I live with not one but three Eagle scouts, and like Jazz, they were in OA as well. The closest thing I've ever heard to SCA related to Boy Scouts was that one of my roommates used to work in the black powder area at camp, and had to wear an authentic "mountain man" outfit to do so. He made all of it himself, including his various knives. I know that at camp one of the counselors got fired for encouraging campers to engage in mock swordfights--there's just too much liability there.

As to the OP, we have a chapter of the SCA at my university. They do displays at various events.

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Zeraph

As far as I know we aren't related to boy scouts at all. And there's a few bad apples that give us a bad name but by and large the majority of us are friendly and fairly good people. There's also a lot more women in it than you'd think.

The armor is actually functional, without it we'd get beat up pretty bad. Even with it people have gotten broken bones. I'd put it something between hockey and football. There's also other types of fighting like fencing and archery.

I'm surprised the TFP isn't into it more, I thought I'd get a lot of replies either saying "cool" or "ya, I'm in it".

The_Jazz

SCA has no official relationship with the BSA that I've ever heard of. I'm sure there's been demonstrations and the like, but theyr'e two independent organizations.

You do not do fencing. Fencing is a sport with very specific rules and equipment. You may do fencing-like competitions, but you do not do fencing. No offense, but SCA folks calling what they do fencing kind of pisses off real fencers, especially the folks that go to the Olympics and whatnot. Hopefully you'll take that as friendly advice, which is how I mean it.

And if you give your thread more than 24 hours to percolate, you might see more responses. I know of at least 3 members off the top of my head that are into SCA or SCA-like groups.

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"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Zeraph

Oh please, don't give me that holy than thou attitude. To almost everyone it's fencing. If I said anything else they wouldn't know what I meant.
Plus they (basically) wear the same type of armor, same type of weapons. People don't get as good in it because there's no prestige/money in it on the Olympic level and it tends to be older men with back problems doing it. If anything though it requires more strategy and skill, seeing as how there's less rules, occasionally offhand weapons, and mass melees.

Also, the dictionary would agree with me.

As for the 2nd, I wasn't commenting on a lack of replies, but more on the nature of them.

pig

I can't say anything about fencing, or the correctness of the term. I can say that there was an SCA group at the school where I did my graduate work, and it never really translated to me, but I say each to their own. They'd have huge melees on the Quad, and I'm sure they probably had a grand time with it. I wouldn't be surprised for many TFP'ers to be into SCA type activities, but I can't imagine doing it myself. Too many other things I'd rather do than recreationally sort of pretend to fight ancient battles, while really beating the junk out of each other with kind of pretend weapons that can really hurt. It reminds me of Civil War re-enactment, and I know we have some of those around here too. But good luck with your new hobby What's the allure of it, for those of you that are into it?

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Jenna

I SO want to do this! I actually work with a guy who is really involved in it, and I think I'm going to come watch some sword and archery practice sometime soon.

Being that I'm a D&D player, I'm totally into the medieval, battle shit.

telekinetic

It was at a district level. We had several SCA sponsored Camp-o-ree's or whatever they were called. I am also an Eagle Scout (not was ) and distinctly remember getting a real steel battle demonstration, doing rattan sword dueling demos, and winning the hatchet throwing competition segment in the SPL Challenge.

I didn't mean the organizations were ever functionally linked, just that they had collaborated, and that that was the extent of my knowledge of them.

The_Jazz

Actually, the dictionary won't agree with you. The equipment's nothing alike, especially considering that all three fencing blades are electrified, and two of them require electrified masks and clothing. I compete in a sport - you do not.

I've got nothing against SCA doing what they do and doing creative things with parts of the sport, but let's be perfectly clear that you are NOT fencers and are NOT athletes. You're having a good time, and I'm all for that, but telling me that what you do as play requires more skill and strategy than what I do as an athlete and competitor is insulting. And to say that there's no money or prestige in fencing at the Olympic level is just ignorant. I ran a fencing sal for 4 years with two partners, and we grossed about $500k in the last year and sold the business for a nice profit. About 90% of our students were under 18, including 2 national champions. And we got 8 kids into schools on fencing scholarships that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to attend.

I know that this is your thread and all, but if you're going to act like an ass, I'm going to stop being respectful, which I think I've been up to this point. Let's just agree that folks in SCA have fun at what they do, it's a great hobby but that referring to one portion of that fun as "fencing" isn't a really accurate description, especially when dealing with someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about.

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"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Zeraph

Ok Jazz, first take the chip off your shoulder and calm down.

"And to say that there's no money or prestige in fencing at the Olympic level " I didn't say that.
I said:
"People don't get as good in it" "it" meaning SCA fencing. It was in response to your comment about SCA people not getting as good. And my point was that's because there's no money in it for them. They all have jobs and don't have time to compete that seriously. Re-read what I said in context.

And please, what we do, if anything, is more fencing than what you do with electrified equipment. Do you think they had electrified swords in the 1800s?

And dictionary.com does agree with me, "the art, practice, or sport in which an épée, foil, or saber is used for defense and attack." Last I checked we use all those. It also defines it as an art, practice *OR* sport.

So I do know what the fuck I'm talking about. You had some chip on your shoulder from something else and decided to come into my thread and rant about it, while attacking me before you even checked your facts. You're the only one acting like an ass, and you need to GTFO.

The_Jazz

You play swordfight with your friends while playing dressup.

I compete in a sport with rules using equipment specifically designed for the sport.

You think there's no difference. You're wrong.

If you mean something in a certain context, you should make sure that it actually means that. What you wrote apparently doesn't mean what you think it does.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

ShaniFaye

whoa...coming from someone who plays "dress up" Im really glad I didnt contribute anything to this thread

Jazz...that was just a tad harsh dont you think. Do you consider all period reenactors to be "playing dress up"?

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Cynthetiq

comparing it to a sport? yes.

As an activity, maybe not.

I know that civil war reenactors don't take kindly to being called guys who dress up in army clothes, but unfortunately that is what they are doing.

Fencing is a sport, with specified rules and guidelines to equipment and gameplay. Electrification is something that is more of a necessity because one cannot necessarily tell if someone has been struck based on speed of the foil.

SCA I'd say is not at this time.

My friends who used to be in SCA didn't have any criteria to winning or fighting. It was based on one boot or two boot kills. Best was two boots since you made your opponent fly backwards with both feet off the ground.

If it was setup like boxing wherein someone counted the strikes... maybe I'd think it a bit more of a sport.

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The_Jazz

No, I don't think you play dress up, Shani. I think you participate in historical reinactments that are as accurate as possible. That means that you don't mistake swordplay for fencing or equate a reinactment with an athletic competition. You're much too smart to do something that moronic.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Zeraph

Why is everyone acting like there's no rules? Your information is either old or your getting it from one of those bad apples I mentioned. There are obvious kill shots, and there are marshals watching to referee when needed. Ya though, a lot of it is based on the honor system...cause guess what? it works for us, we aren't cheaters. Are motto is honor before victory.

And dress up? Puh-lease, I'm not even going to go there, except to say everyone does it in some venue. Whether it be a suit for a funeral, or a cap for a baseball game. Get over yourself. Have some fun.
-----Added 30/7/2008 at 02 : 50 : 20-----
ok im done. I can't believe an admin is acting this mean. This site is going to shit if this is how admins act these days.

ring

ummm.I'm sorry Jazz..but I agree.
Your tone is not helping to further discussion one bit.

It's downright mean.

The_Jazz

You're the one who took it there, chief. I tried to be as respectful as I could and give us room to agree to disagree, but then you told me I was acting like and ass and to GTFO.

Things don't happen in a vacuum and regardless of how blameless you initially think you are for a situation, you're often surprised.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

jewels

Am I correct in assuming the SCA runs the Renaissance Festivals we enjoy throughout the US?

Although I've never been a part of those who provide the fun, I once worked with a couple who spent all year preparing for the next Festival. I go to them whenever I can. They're an absolute blast and I envy those who have the patience to duplicate the beautiful costumes, learn how to joust, juggle and fence. The entertainment they provide is awesome. If you haven't been, you should make it a point.

Football's a sport with rules. But if I played in the street with my brother's friends when I was a kid, I still played football.

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Cynthetiq

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-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- There's a difference of having an opinion, his opinion differs than yours. And he doesn't agree with your definition of what you think that it is. Harsh maybe, mean? far from it. Seriously, let's think about it for a moment. If we're all supposed to stroke each other's egos here, then why not just all go to Disneyland? This place is to challenge your mind and opinion. If it is just to sit around the campfire singing Kumbaya to each other, well I don't have time for neutral or negative growth. You should find it within yourself to see why it bothers you so much that someone has a different point of view and attitude. Why is it that the definition in such need of defense from your point of view? Jazz has stated why he feels slighted toward a comparison to fencing, what about you? The point is to be able to discuss something have different points of view and still be able to further a discussion.

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Redlemon

No. SCA aims for historical accuracy, Rennies allow for magic.

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Glory's Sun

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-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- OK .. get back to the OP. If you want to discuss the differences between the "sports" then make it civil. There's no point in being asses. Just discuss whatever the hell this SCA thing is, and if you're going to compare it against something else then do it the right way.

jewels

Thanks, RL. I'd never heard of the SCA. *crawling back under my rock*

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Redlemon

Come back out, it's dark under there.

I only know that because I have a bunch of SCA friends, and some of them look down on Rennies (now that I think of it, "Rennies" may be a derogatory term, if so, I apologize) because of that difference. I've never been to an SCA event, I can't subsume myself into character for that long, but I have fun attending the Ren Faire each year, dressed mundane ("mundane" = "not part of the SCA", not necessarily derogatory).

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ShaniFaye

Jewels, back in the day...in Georgia at least, the SCA put on the precursor to Renn Fairs. Only they were a weekend event, not a 6 week event like they are now (in Georgia). From the time I was about 8 til I was about 13 we went to all the SCA stuff...then came the RENN FAIRES and the SCA bowed out because it wasnt "accurate" enough and they went off to do their own thing kind of like they had before.

I know some SCA people that still go to faires and still make their craft for it...not everyone is a zealot about it thank god (there is a very good reason Im not a member anymore). But you do get the ones that think their way is the only way and everyone else is just wrong...again one reason I quit.

Its kind of like the difference between civil war reenactors and whats called the "hardcores". You always have the people that will argue and belittle, which is sad for the organization, its keeping a lot of people away, like me, that enjoyed it at one time.

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Cynthetiq

are the hardcores the guys that sleep in tents and eat tack for breakfast lunch and dinner during the summer tourist season?

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ShaniFaye

No, even as a non hardcore I did that. Hardcores are the ones that starve themselves into anorexia so they look authentic lol among other things

Redlemon...Rennies are more fun and Im MUCH happier being associated with them than the SCA (and yes in the group I was in Rennie was a derogatory term)

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Cynthetiq

yeah that's pretty hardcore

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pig

Hmm...this thread sort of turned into a pile of shit. Interesting. So, I guess I'm back to earlier question - I can't really see the allure of such a society, or the things they do. For those of you that are involved in this sort of thing, what is it that makes it worth your time? From what I could glean when I would watch those guys, it didn't really seem like the sort of thing you could really do casually...is it just escapism? What's the level of technology acceptance among such groups? Do they typically want to revert back to an earlier time without light bulbs and running water kind of fantasy trip? I hate to see zeraph's search for likeminded TFP members be completely derailed by the apparent controversy over the nature of their "fencing" competitions.

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The_Dunedan

Nevermind. I let my prejudices get away with me, and I apologize. To all, good night.

Redlemon

Again, I am not a member, I only have friends in SCA, but......my friends have plenty of technology, both in their personal lives and at work. They aren't Amish, they aren't Luddites.

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Zeraph

It's not really escapism any more than other sports/martial arts, we rarely talk from our persona. It's the same reason anyone likes football or hockey. Combine that with a like for history and camaraderie and you have your average SCAer. Most people are married and bring their kids to the daytime events so we're not at all like the actors from the renfaire.

We hardly scorn technology, people talk on cellphones, wear sun glasses, etc. We talk about normal modern stuff in between fights, and have a lot of normal parties as well as themed (dressing period) parties.

The last party I went to we got drunk and played rockband/guitar hero.

mixedmedia

Everything we do is escapism, folks. Whether it be an Olympic sport or running around in a costume in some field in Pennsylvania...or even sitting here typing words on the internet.

When we all realize we are all in the same boat, then we'll be getting somewhere.

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