Predetermining the hero - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

The_Jazz · 07-28-2008, 06:53 AM

As some of you know, I grew up in Knoxville, TN. As probably none of you know, I attended the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church as an early teen. My parents still have many friends there. A friend of mine who lived on my street and her mother (who still lives on the street) were apparently at the play and witnessed the shooting according to my brother, who's close friends with her brother still.

Despite my inability to clearly process how something like this could have happened in the Sequoia Woods neighborhood (read: old money), what I keep coming back to is how the incident ended. Apparently the shooter paused to reload and two guys tackled him. One of those men is John Bohstedt and is someone I've known for more than 25 years.

John is an English History professor at the University of Tennessee. He has a daughter and son who are the same ages as my brother and I. I have fond memories of playing board games at their house and traveling to the South Carolina beach with them. He was one of the first adults to talk to me like I was an adult and to take my opinions seriously.

That said, I never once envisioned him the kind of hero that tackles a gunman. From what I've pieced together from news accounts and third-hand stories, it was a chaotic scene, and John was up at the front of the church as a part of the cast for the play that was going on. When the shooting started, he worked his way close to the gunman and then tackled him when there was a pause in the shooting. John is probably in his mid-60's to early 70's. He is the quintessential college professor and looks the part.

I know lots of heroes. This is the first Hero I've ever had the good fortune to know. Of all the people I've known over the years, he was never on my list as being capable of this kind of act.

So I pose to you, who do you know that did something so heroic that you're incapable of explaining the action with what you know of the person? There are obviously paid heroes in our midst - firefighters, police, paramedics - who routinely risk their lives for the greater good, but I'm talking about run of the mill citizens. Did you see it coming (if such a thing is possible)? How does it change your perception of the individual?

dlish · 07-28-2008, 07:52 AM

cant say ive known any heros. nothing like that.. but i can say ive seen andy garcia in accidental hero. great movie

ohh.. my dad did save my life when i was a yougen. i drowned at a river we were having a bbq at, and he run for what seemed like a lifetime for me - i could see him from, when he started his run on the shore. he dived into the water and pulled me out as i had gone under for the last time.

my dads my Hero.

Jinn · 07-28-2008, 08:57 AM

For those of you who don't know what Jazz is talking about:

BBC NEWS | Americas | US church killer 'hated liberals'

Quote:

US church killer 'hated liberals'

Jim Adkisson is accused of opening fire with a 12-gauge shotgun

A man accused of shooting dead two people in a Tennessee church was motivated by hatred of liberals and anger at being jobless, US police say.

Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen said they had found a letter in Jim Adkisson's car in which he described his feelings.

There were about 200 people in the church, which is known for its liberal stance, at the time of Sunday's attack. Mr Adkisson, 58, has been charged with first-degree murder.

Children were putting on a play at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church when a gunman entered with a 12-gauge shotgun and opened fire on the congregation.

People dived for cover under pews but several adults were hit, two of them fatally, before a group managed to overpower Mr Adkisson.

Police Chief Owen said Mr Adkisson had brought the gun into the church in a guitar case.

Police guard the entrance to the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church (27 July 2008)
The church's congregation had been watching a performance by 25 children

Officers also found a four-page letter in the suspect's car.

"It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that, and his stated hatred for the liberal movement," Chief Owen said.

"It appears that the church had received some publicity in the recent past regarding its liberal stance on things and that is at least one of the issues we believe caused that church to be selected."

The Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church describes itself on its website as working for social change since the 1950s, including desegregation, racial harmony, fair wages, women's rights and gay rights.

Police say it appears Mr Adkisson was acting alone.

The two people who were killed were Greg McKendry, a 60-year-old usher at the church, and Linda Kreager, who died of her injuries at a nearby hospital a few hours after the shooting.

Church member Barbara Kemper said that Mr McKendry had "stood in front of the gunman and took the blast to protect the rest of us".

I didn't until I read the news this morning, and came back because his post made sense.

dlish · 07-28-2008, 09:35 AM

i heard this news yesterday jinn.. or am i just 1 day ahead of u guys?

The_Jazz · 07-28-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish

i heard this news yesterday jinn.. or am i just 1 day ahead of u guys?

It happened yesterday, dlish. And thanks, Jinn. In my rush to get my ideas out, I forgot to provide the proper context.

dlish - did your father saving you change your relationship? Did you view him differently afterwards?

dlish · 07-28-2008, 11:00 AM

Jazz,

When he pulled me out i started throwing up all the muddy water i had swallowed. i was in waist high water. After i was through with throwing up i was crying as a 5 or 6 year old would, and we still walking back into shore.

i was lagging right behind dad and he told me in a stern voice in no uncertain way that was a man and men dont cry and gave me a stern look which made me stop crying abruptly. ill never forget that look. deep down inside i was like."ive just drowned and dads got the shits with me????"

He was always the strong stern type that never cried type of person. that moment reinforced that to me as a child. though i always did have love an admiration for him even though he was the tough type.

Although in later years i would come to know dad as a softer more humble person than the stern facade he showed in my younger years. maybe he was trying to build character at that moment. im still unsure of his wisdom behind it, but i hold no malice. but he was always was and will be the 'man of the house'. i hope i can be half the father he was to me.

07-28-2008, 06:53 AM	#1 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Predetermining the hero As some of you know, I grew up in Knoxville, TN. As probably none of you know, I attended the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church as an early teen. My parents still have many friends there. A friend of mine who lived on my street and her mother (who still lives on the street) were apparently at the play and witnessed the shooting according to my brother, who's close friends with her brother still. Despite my inability to clearly process how something like this could have happened in the Sequoia Woods neighborhood (read: old money), what I keep coming back to is how the incident ended. Apparently the shooter paused to reload and two guys tackled him. One of those men is John Bohstedt and is someone I've known for more than 25 years. John is an English History professor at the University of Tennessee. He has a daughter and son who are the same ages as my brother and I. I have fond memories of playing board games at their house and traveling to the South Carolina beach with them. He was one of the first adults to talk to me like I was an adult and to take my opinions seriously. That said, I never once envisioned him the kind of hero that tackles a gunman. From what I've pieced together from news accounts and third-hand stories, it was a chaotic scene, and John was up at the front of the church as a part of the cast for the play that was going on. When the shooting started, he worked his way close to the gunman and then tackled him when there was a pause in the shooting. John is probably in his mid-60's to early 70's. He is the quintessential college professor and looks the part. I know lots of heroes. This is the first Hero I've ever had the good fortune to know. Of all the people I've known over the years, he was never on my list as being capable of this kind of act. So I pose to you, who do you know that did something so heroic that you're incapable of explaining the action with what you know of the person? There are obviously paid heroes in our midst - firefighters, police, paramedics - who routinely risk their lives for the greater good, but I'm talking about run of the mill citizens. Did you see it coming (if such a thing is possible)? How does it change your perception of the individual? __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

07-28-2008, 07:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	cant say ive known any heros. nothing like that.. but i can say ive seen andy garcia in accidental hero. great movie ohh.. my dad did save my life when i was a yougen. i drowned at a river we were having a bbq at, and he run for what seemed like a lifetime for me - i could see him from, when he started his run on the shore. he dived into the water and pulled me out as i had gone under for the last time. my dads my Hero. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

07-28-2008, 09:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	i heard this news yesterday jinn.. or am i just 1 day ahead of u guys? __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

07-28-2008, 11:00 AM	#6 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	Jazz, When he pulled me out i started throwing up all the muddy water i had swallowed. i was in waist high water. After i was through with throwing up i was crying as a 5 or 6 year old would, and we still walking back into shore. i was lagging right behind dad and he told me in a stern voice in no uncertain way that was a man and men dont cry and gave me a stern look which made me stop crying abruptly. ill never forget that look. deep down inside i was like."ive just drowned and dads got the shits with me????" He was always the strong stern type that never cried type of person. that moment reinforced that to me as a child. though i always did have love an admiration for him even though he was the tough type. Although in later years i would come to know dad as a softer more humble person than the stern facade he showed in my younger years. maybe he was trying to build character at that moment. im still unsure of his wisdom behind it, but i hold no malice. but he was always was and will be the 'man of the house'. i hope i can be half the father he was to me. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy