Green Noise: How being Green is missing the mark - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

jewels · 06-25-2008, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PegLeg

I guess the point I am making is that the general attitude toward sustainability needs to change before we worry about buying the right kind of lightbulbs and floors.

This is kinda fun to help you look at realistic things we can all do that will make a difference.

http://sustainability.publicradio.or...rconsequences/

ASU2003 · 06-25-2008, 05:16 PM

I think right now the 'green movement' isn't really about saving the environment as much as it is a reaction to a economic choice. The 'cheap' common & wasteful way of doing things is getting to be expensive enough, that the more efficient or different way of doing things is making economic sense.

Sadly, it will only be a fad as long as gas prices stay high I believe. But, it is nice to see people picking the better product over the cheapest Wal-Mart one. Or driving more fuel efficient cars and hybrids over SUVs and trucks.

serlindsipity · 06-30-2008, 08:25 PM

Green noise is a scary thought. It does make people confused, and it will lead to rebellion. The noise is brought on by know-it-alls and the people who dont know it all will label the environmentalists as pretensious and above the average non-green joe and they could very well just give up. That's the danger in going green, it requires A TON of research. and yes, things will contradict.

The nalgene thing is one of them. Yes reusable is ideal. But only if its safe. And that is yet ANOTHER thing people have to look into! and as such, additional info will continue to surface. The Bisphenol A just surfaced very very recently and no doubt they'll find other compounds that leech. But at the same time, we have known about the risk of leeching for a long time (Fast food banned Styrofoam a long time ago for a reason).

Green noise will also be a problem because, for all the good intentions many individuals have, it will be difficult to make the necessary improvements unless there is government intervention. If anything, we should be making the same noise at our governments demanding change! But again that will not happen becuase if it forces society as a whole to make drastic lifestyle changes, well yea, we're lazy....

Doing the things that make financial and economic sense are the only things that will stick. CFLs will work but only when they are disposed of properly (www.lightbulbrecycling.com..... but again, it increases the price of the bulbs considerably, so people wont tolerate that) <- However, if that cost is factored into the initial price (and a shipping container included) then people dont feel like its a double whammy.

As for a fad, I dont think this is just a fad. Words like "social responsibility" and "corporate responsibility" are leading to awareness. People are starting to feel guilt for the way we have been wasteful and the idea that the next generation will be faced with some ugly ugly issues if we dont start doing something. As such, people are showing this attitude with how they spend. I work in a green collar job (yes thats what its called....) and everyone wants to their part and free up some of that guilt. And there is economic benefits to it. I see many companies who buy our products and raise their prices 10% to cover teh addtional costs and when they explain it is to go green, people dont generally object. They like that a company's efforts is also their spending's efforts are in turn green.

.

xepherys · 06-30-2008, 09:32 PM

Really people?

First of all, before even getting into the green thing, Cyn... bamboo can be just as beautiful as any hardwood, and conversely I've seen really shitty oak, maple, walnut and pine. And it IS far more plentiful and replenishable.

As for green, there are a lot of green measures that makes sense right up front. Such as rechargeable batteries. Saves you $$$, prevents nasty batteries from going into the ground. How is there a loss there? Most newer NiMH don't have 'memory' issues, and Li-ion are great. Both can easily get 1800+ wH.

Saving water? If nothing else it's a good financial move. Assuming the restaurant pays a water bill, saving a few hundred gallons of undrunk water a month seems like a smart plan, plus it involves the washing of less glassware, which as mentioned above is horrid either way, right? Dishwashers suck, washing by hand sucks... so let's do less of either.

Sometimes being 'green' just means using common sense and being fiscally smart with your pocketbook. It's not hard to read underneath the noise.

Milkyway · 07-01-2008, 09:44 PM

I think it is interesting in the US that there are two huge trends
1. GO GREEN, buy special reusable things
2. BE CLEAN, buy special disposable things so that you and your house are cleaner.

I try to reuse as much stuff as possible, because frankly I prefer the reusable things, switched out disposable diapers for awesome washable cloth ones, switched out paper towels for microfiber towels and thin kitchen towels, switched out kitchen sponge for washable microfiber sponge, switched out disposable swiffer pads for washable microfiber pads. And a few other things like that, still use paper facial and toilet tissue-somethings I just have to throw away. (I do try to buy ones made of recycled paper though.)

Am I following a fad, am I saving the planet, or am I just discovering products I like better that will save me money in the long run and happen to be good for the planet, supposedly.

I think the last one.

genuinegirly · 07-06-2008, 04:47 PM

Re: water rationing at restaurants.

I have a couple of times requested water alongside a fountain drink. I am given the fountain drink, but not the water. Just bad service, but at times I think they've drilled the water rationing concept into the servers' minds a bit too much.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: op

I've definitely seen first-hand how "green noise" can be destructive.
Many of my friends consider environmentalism a sort of religious-like cult. They are bothered by the fact that people are telling them what to do. So they do the opposite whenever convenient.

Every dinner hosted by my husband's work for the past year has included a prominent scientist discussing global warming. At the last one I attended in December, nearly everyone shifted in their seats as the chemist began the same old discussion - after the speaker left the room, we didn't come across anyone who actually listened. They were burnt out. So were we. The problem? These scientists didn't gear their talks to their fellow-scientist audience. It sounded like the same mumbo jumbo crap they would present to politicians. That's not what would have reached these people in the first place, and to only be bombarded with it quarter after quarter is merely maddening.

Yes, there are conflicting messages. Yes, we are required to use our own judgment. No, we shouldn't allow others to make us feel guilty for our weighed decisions. Unfortunately some people who care about reducing energy use are insanely outspoken, persistent, and judgmental.

Dangit people - if you're overwhelmed say no. Treat them like you would a religious solicitor and slam the door in their face. You only become overloaded if you place yourself in that sphere. Watch CNBC instead of CNN. Read Smithsonian and Discover instead of National Geographic. Pull yourself away from the sources of frustration and encourage your burnt-out friends to do likewise.

serlindsipity · 07-07-2008, 06:13 PM

i'll agree with girly and throw in the statement "use common sense." If you think its environmentally friendly (which leans towards economically friendly) go with it.

As much as people want to be TRULY green, sometimes we forget that little steps do make a difference and should be appreciated as well.

06-30-2008, 08:25 PM	#43 (permalink)
serlindsipity Psycho Location: Boulder Baby!	Green noise is a scary thought. It does make people confused, and it will lead to rebellion. The noise is brought on by know-it-alls and the people who dont know it all will label the environmentalists as pretensious and above the average non-green joe and they could very well just give up. That's the danger in going green, it requires A TON of research. and yes, things will contradict. The nalgene thing is one of them. Yes reusable is ideal. But only if its safe. And that is yet ANOTHER thing people have to look into! and as such, additional info will continue to surface. The Bisphenol A just surfaced very very recently and no doubt they'll find other compounds that leech. But at the same time, we have known about the risk of leeching for a long time (Fast food banned Styrofoam a long time ago for a reason). Green noise will also be a problem because, for all the good intentions many individuals have, it will be difficult to make the necessary improvements unless there is government intervention. If anything, we should be making the same noise at our governments demanding change! But again that will not happen becuase if it forces society as a whole to make drastic lifestyle changes, well yea, we're lazy.... Doing the things that make financial and economic sense are the only things that will stick. CFLs will work but only when they are disposed of properly (www.lightbulbrecycling.com..... but again, it increases the price of the bulbs considerably, so people wont tolerate that) <- However, if that cost is factored into the initial price (and a shipping container included) then people dont feel like its a double whammy. As for a fad, I dont think this is just a fad. Words like "social responsibility" and "corporate responsibility" are leading to awareness. People are starting to feel guilt for the way we have been wasteful and the idea that the next generation will be faced with some ugly ugly issues if we dont start doing something. As such, people are showing this attitude with how they spend. I work in a green collar job (yes thats what its called....) and everyone wants to their part and free up some of that guilt. And there is economic benefits to it. I see many companies who buy our products and raise their prices 10% to cover teh addtional costs and when they explain it is to go green, people dont generally object. They like that a company's efforts is also their spending's efforts are in turn green. . __________________ My third eye is my camera's lens.

06-30-2008, 09:32 PM	#44 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	Really people? First of all, before even getting into the green thing, Cyn... bamboo can be just as beautiful as any hardwood, and conversely I've seen really shitty oak, maple, walnut and pine. And it IS far more plentiful and replenishable. As for green, there are a lot of green measures that makes sense right up front. Such as rechargeable batteries. Saves you $$$, prevents nasty batteries from going into the ground. How is there a loss there? Most newer NiMH don't have 'memory' issues, and Li-ion are great. Both can easily get 1800+ wH. Saving water? If nothing else it's a good financial move. Assuming the restaurant pays a water bill, saving a few hundred gallons of undrunk water a month seems like a smart plan, plus it involves the washing of less glassware, which as mentioned above is horrid either way, right? Dishwashers suck, washing by hand sucks... so let's do less of either. Sometimes being 'green' just means using common sense and being fiscally smart with your pocketbook. It's not hard to read underneath the noise. __________________ The prospect of achieving a peace agreement with the extremist group of MILF is almost impossible... -- Emmanuel Pinol, Governor of Cotobato My Homepage

07-01-2008, 09:44 PM	#45 (permalink)
Milkyway Tilted Location: Ohio	I think it is interesting in the US that there are two huge trends 1. GO GREEN, buy special reusable things 2. BE CLEAN, buy special disposable things so that you and your house are cleaner. I try to reuse as much stuff as possible, because frankly I prefer the reusable things, switched out disposable diapers for awesome washable cloth ones, switched out paper towels for microfiber towels and thin kitchen towels, switched out kitchen sponge for washable microfiber sponge, switched out disposable swiffer pads for washable microfiber pads. And a few other things like that, still use paper facial and toilet tissue-somethings I just have to throw away. (I do try to buy ones made of recycled paper though.) Am I following a fad, am I saving the planet, or am I just discovering products I like better that will save me money in the long run and happen to be good for the planet, supposedly. I think the last one. __________________ Yes you can get off on the same sexual experience for 24 full hours!!!!!

07-06-2008, 04:47 PM	#46 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Re: water rationing at restaurants. I have a couple of times requested water alongside a fountain drink. I am given the fountain drink, but not the water. Just bad service, but at times I think they've drilled the water rationing concept into the servers' minds a bit too much. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: op I've definitely seen first-hand how "green noise" can be destructive. Many of my friends consider environmentalism a sort of religious-like cult. They are bothered by the fact that people are telling them what to do. So they do the opposite whenever convenient. Every dinner hosted by my husband's work for the past year has included a prominent scientist discussing global warming. At the last one I attended in December, nearly everyone shifted in their seats as the chemist began the same old discussion - after the speaker left the room, we didn't come across anyone who actually listened. They were burnt out. So were we. The problem? These scientists didn't gear their talks to their fellow-scientist audience. It sounded like the same mumbo jumbo crap they would present to politicians. That's not what would have reached these people in the first place, and to only be bombarded with it quarter after quarter is merely maddening. Yes, there are conflicting messages. Yes, we are required to use our own judgment. No, we shouldn't allow others to make us feel guilty for our weighed decisions. Unfortunately some people who care about reducing energy use are insanely outspoken, persistent, and judgmental. Dangit people - if you're overwhelmed say no. Treat them like you would a religious solicitor and slam the door in their face. You only become overloaded if you place yourself in that sphere. Watch CNBC instead of CNN. Read Smithsonian and Discover instead of National Geographic. Pull yourself away from the sources of frustration and encourage your burnt-out friends to do likewise. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy Last edited by genuinegirly; 07-06-2008 at 04:48 PM.. Reason: clarity

07-07-2008, 06:13 PM	#47 (permalink)
serlindsipity Psycho Location: Boulder Baby!	i'll agree with girly and throw in the statement "use common sense." If you think its environmentally friendly (which leans towards economically friendly) go with it. As much as people want to be TRULY green, sometimes we forget that little steps do make a difference and should be appreciated as well. __________________ My third eye is my camera's lens.

06-25-2008, 05:16 PM	#42 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	I think right now the 'green movement' isn't really about saving the environment as much as it is a reaction to a economic choice. The 'cheap' common & wasteful way of doing things is getting to be expensive enough, that the more efficient or different way of doing things is making economic sense. Sadly, it will only be a fad as long as gas prices stay high I believe. But, it is nice to see people picking the better product over the cheapest Wal-Mart one. Or driving more fuel efficient cars and hybrids over SUVs and trucks.