Are we really much different than other communities? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 05-02-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

View: Not on Our Blog You Won’t
Source: NYTimes
posted with the TFP thread generator

Not on Our Blog You Won’t
May 4, 2008
Not on Our Blog You Won’t
By LAUREN LIPTON
AT 12:04 P.M. on April 25, a skirmish broke out on Jezebel.com.

It began when the upstart Web site for women, whose slogan is “Celebrity, sex, fashion. Without airbrushing,” posted a photo of Angelina Jolie in a low-cut yellow dress. As part of a popular feature called Snap Judgment, readers offered biting comments on everything from Ms. Jolie’s eye-popping neckline to her possible state of mind.

Then a commenter with the screen name Calraigh wrote that, despite being pregnant, Ms. Jolie looked like “an Ethiopian famine victim.” Within minutes, a half-dozen angry readers had made their own snap judgments of Calraigh:

“You’re gross.”

“Are you serious?”

“That comment is inappropriate. I don’t know what website you think you are on, but that is not how we roll.”

The Jezebel blog was founded last spring by Gawker Media as a smart, feisty antidote to traditional women’s magazines (or “glossy insecurity factories,” as Jezebel describes them). It quickly developed a loyal following and has seen an influx of new visitors, after being name-checked on the official blog for “Gossip Girl,” the prime-time soap opera.

But as Jezebel’s first anniversary approaches on May 21, its readers and editors are learning a lesson right out of high school: popularity has its pitfalls, and mean-girl behavior is hard to quash.

Some readers, in comments on the site, have accused editors of political bias and misogyny. Readers have called one another, by turns, immature, boring and cliquish. This spring the editors responded by banishing certain commenters and putting others “on notice” for being nasty or, worse, not funny.

“I feel like Jezebel is a club more than a blog,” wrote Elizabeth Palin, 26, an accountant from Fayetteville, N.C., who comments under the screen name Muffyn.

All this over a Web site that set out to be — dare one say it? — nice.

When Anna Holmes, the managing editor of Jezebel, was hired to create what her new employers described to her as a “girly Gawker,” she thought long and hard about how much of its parent company’s infamous snarkiness to adopt.

“I wanted Jezebel to be welcoming,” Ms. Holmes said during a rare weekday foray out of her home office in Long Island City.

WRITTEN and edited by a staff of seven women, the blog mixes style commentary and gossip with no-holds-barred posts about politics, the economy, sexism and, certainly, sex.

Recent posts — they go up about every 15 minutes from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. on weekdays — include commentary on Texas polygamists, a discussion about fertility and a critique of Scarlett Johansson’s singing skills. There are regular features such as Pot Psychology, in which Tracie Egan, an editor, answers readers’ sex questions while under the influence of marijuana, and Cover Lies, a send-up of women’s magazines. (One, in April, bore the headline, “Well Isn’t the Cosmo ‘Sexy Issue’ Just a Sexy Breath of Fresh Sexual Sexy Sex Air!”)

Though the site is still plenty snarky, it steers clear of the vicious remarks about age and weight one finds elsewhere on gossip blogs. Readers of Jezebel find the kinder tone appealing.

“I actually was a commenter on Gawker,” says Jessica Young, 28, a Brooklyn graduate student. “When Jezebel came up, I almost immediately switched over.”

With fewer than 360,000 unique visitors most months, according to Nielsen Online, Jezebel doesn’t come close in scope to larger women’s sites such as iVillage. But in February, after the “Gossip Girl” blog mention, Jezebel saw a spike in traffic, garnering more than an estimated half-million unique visitors for the month, according to Nielsen.

To date, Jezebel’s best month for unique visitors remains July 2007. That month, it posted a photograph of the country music singer Faith Hill, without the significant Photoshop work the shot had received when it was published on the cover of Redbook.

Jezebel paid an undisclosed source $10,000 for the raw photo and concluded that the image had been doctored 11 different ways, the blog said: Ms. Hill’s hair had been digitally thickened, her arms slimmed and her clavicles softened. The post landed Ms. Holmes on NBC’s “Today” show and has garnered over a million page views to date, according to the site.

“It was not one of my favorite moments,” said Stacy Morrison, the editor-in-chief of Redbook.

“Encouraging people to steal proprietary information was a somewhat dubious beginning, but I get it,” she said. “Gossip is fun, which is probably why all the assistants look at Jezebel.” Ms. Morrison said the site is off the radar of most of her readers, many of whom live in “parts of the country that aren’t attached to fashion and flash.”

Like a digital-age upgrade of Sassy, the 1990s-era indie-feminist teenage magazine, Jezebel appeals to a young, urban demographic, with a roster of editors whose strong voices inspire loyal followings. Ms. Egan shares details of her intimate life that are not safe for work. Maureen Tkacik, the site’s features editor, who is known as Moe, gravitates toward politics and speaks out against what she calls the “idiocracy.” Dodai Stewart, the senior editor, pokes fun at magazines and catalogs; in a feature called LOLVogue, she writes satirical captions for fashion spreads.

Jezebel’s readers — they often call themselves “Jezzies” or “Jezebelles”— are permitted to post to the site after a first prospective comment is approved by a Gawker Media staffer, and must adhere to some basic rules: be witty and relevant, no whining and don’t attack people.

Still, such attacks — on one another, and on the editors — happen regularly. When Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton won the New Hampshire primary after getting teary-eyed at a campaign event, Ms. Tkacik fired off a furious rant, accusing women of voting with their emotions. One commenter, a 28-year-old Brooklyn medical biller who uses the screen name SinisterRouge, wrote back: “Seriously, Moe, I know you love Obama. But to say women just up and voted for her because she cries is retarded.”

(Ms. Tkacik, along with Ms. Holmes and Jessica Grose, an associate editor, have contributed freelance articles to Sunday Styles. This reporter has posted comments on Jezebel.com.)

In an interview, Ms. Tkacik said she has been called far worse names by Jezebel readers. “For a while,” she said, “I was like, ‘Where does this desire to really hate me on a personal level come from?’ ”

In March, Ms. Holmes publicly banned some commenters she believed had frequently crossed the line, and issued warnings to others, including SinisterRouge. Instead of showing support for Ms. Holmes’s decision, many readers declared loyalty to the warned Jezebelles, including a core group of longtime commenters who privately identify themselves as “cool kids.”

These core commenters have become friends online and in real life, spinning off their own blogs (such as ButtercupPunch, which has as its slogan “La clique, c’est chic!”) and creating Jezebel Facebook groups. In New York, Jezebelles meet regularly for drinks; in mid-April, almost two dozen old-guard Jezebelles from across the country rented a house in Tennessee for a weekend get-together. (Highlights of the weekend included a pilgrimage to Dollywood.)

Some longtime commenters say the site’s recent “Gossip Girl”-related influx of readers is ruining Jezebel.

“I miss the old days,” said Mary Brewer, one of the old guard who identified herself as an over-35 researcher from the South. “I think we grew really fast, and all of a sudden, it seems like people are just slipping through that shouldn’t be commenting.”

“We’re not there to talk about the prom,” she said. “I don’t want to hear ‘Totes cool’ or ‘She’s cute.’ I’m in it for the snark.”

Jezebel’s editors are continuing to work on these problems. They’ve hired a moderator to keep better tabs on commenters, and they reach out to their readers to a degree that might be astonishing to magazine editors. A few weeks ago, Ms. Tkacik went out for drinks with SinisterRouge, her sometime sparring partner, in the West Village. Despite their political differences, the two women bonded.

“We sat there and drank and joked. It was a really good time,” Ms. Tkacik said. “She’s just really funny, totally one of those girls who’ll say whatever.”

We have some of these characteristics. We have created social standards for what is and isn't acceptable here at TFP. We have regular outings for those that have become real life friends. Phone calls replace thread posts and PMs.

I do find some solace in seeing that the ills and growing pains we've had aren't isolated to our space, but show that we're not really all that different even in cyberspace.

Daniel_ · 05-03-2008, 12:56 AM

Interestig article.

The more I relate the web to things we've all done in real life the more I think "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose".

grumpyolddude · 05-03-2008, 10:35 AM

I think we're different than Jezebel. We recognize our pugnatious nature, and make space for that. We've evolved. Six-plus years into this experiment in human nature, while seeming sluggish at times, fresh input abounds, and new blood continues to invigorate, IMO.

TFP is much more than just a "blog-and-comment" sound-off board. Much, much more.

uncle phil · 05-03-2008, 11:02 AM

better than the average bear, booboo...

RetroGunslinger · 05-03-2008, 12:07 PM

I'd go so far as to say that while there are undoubtedly communities out there that are very similar, TFP manages to stand out as a joyfully politically incorrect community, while not straying into the uber-Libertarian nutbag territory some run into. Also, there is no focus, as we discuss everything from porn to genetics, and that keeps it all fresh while maintaining a strong community.

While I have only been here for a little less than two full months, it's easy to see that this board is not likely to ever die, like many great message boards around the net (Reel Horror comes to mind, I really love them, but the daily post average is so low there's almost no point).

lotsofmagnets · 05-03-2008, 01:24 PM

does jezebel have boobies in one place and another place where women get to discuss boobies without prejudice? i think not.þ

MSD · 05-03-2008, 04:46 PM

TFP is unique in ways, and not so unique in others. We pride ourselves on being open-minded, but sometimes I think we open our minds to the point that our brains fall out. We allow discussions that would get people banned from other forums like 9/11 conspiracy theories in paranoia/politics and ladder theory in sexuality, and I think sometimes we're tolerant to a fault.

On the other hand, memes, cliches, and catchphrases like lolcats and netspeak (especially the 4chan cornerstones like "win," "fail," describing everything good as "epic," etc.) are common here like they are on much of the Internet and I can't wait until they shrivel up and die.

lotsofmagnets · 05-03-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

On the other hand, memes, cliches, and catchphrases like lolcats and netspeak (especially the 4chan cornerstones like "win," "fail," describing everything good as "epic," etc.) are common here like they are on much of the Internet and I can't wait until they shrivel up and die.

win

genuinegirly · 05-03-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotsofmagnets

does jezebel have boobies in one place and another place where women get to discuss boobies without prejudice? i think not.þ

So true!

shesus · 05-03-2008, 06:32 PM

It's like everything else in life.

We're unique.
Just like everyone else.

Ustwo · 05-03-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

On the other hand, memes, cliches, and catchphrases like lolcats and netspeak (especially the 4chan cornerstones like "win," "fail," describing everything good as "epic," etc.) are common here like they are on much of the Internet and I can't wait until they shrivel up and die.

LoganSnake · 05-03-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

On the other hand, memes, cliches, and catchphrases like lolcats and netspeak (especially the 4chan cornerstones like "win," "fail," describing everything good as "epic," etc.) are common here like they are on much of the Internet and I can't wait until they shrivel up and die.

MSD · 05-04-2008, 04:41 PM

I think Something Awful is probably to blame, but I've had a good 5 or 6 years to get tired of the same old image macros and "motivational posters." I find it a lot more funny when people come up with their own original thought and leave the catchphrases and memes to the rare occasions where they'll be extra funny.

Sage · 05-04-2008, 11:13 PM

I jumped ship here to go to Something Awful, and wasted a helluva lot of time on it for almost a year before I got banned for something that, here at TFP, would have been overlooked and dismissed.

I'd say we're like a small town where everyone gathers at the corner drugstore soda fountain to share gossip and chat. Only we're a tourist town and have to put up with city folk once in a while.

MSD · 05-05-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

I jumped ship here to go to Something Awful, and wasted a helluva lot of time on it for almost a year before I got banned for something that, here at TFP, would have been overlooked and dismissed.

I'd say we're like a small town where everyone gathers at the corner drugstore soda fountain to share gossip and chat. Only we're a tourist town and have to put up with city folk once in a while.

Hahaha, what'd they get you for?

05-03-2008, 12:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	Interestig article. The more I relate the web to things we've all done in real life the more I think "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose". __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

05-03-2008, 10:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
grumpyolddude Deliberately unfocused Location: Amazon.com and CDBaby	I think we're different than Jezebel. We recognize our pugnatious nature, and make space for that. We've evolved. Six-plus years into this experiment in human nature, while seeming sluggish at times, fresh input abounds, and new blood continues to invigorate, IMO. TFP is much more than just a "blog-and-comment" sound-off board. Much, much more. __________________ "Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

05-03-2008, 11:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	better than the average bear, booboo... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

05-03-2008, 12:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
RetroGunslinger eats puppies and shits rainbows Location: An Area of Space Occupied by a Population, SC, USA	I'd go so far as to say that while there are undoubtedly communities out there that are very similar, TFP manages to stand out as a joyfully politically incorrect community, while not straying into the uber-Libertarian nutbag territory some run into. Also, there is no focus, as we discuss everything from porn to genetics, and that keeps it all fresh while maintaining a strong community. While I have only been here for a little less than two full months, it's easy to see that this board is not likely to ever die, like many great message boards around the net (Reel Horror comes to mind, I really love them, but the daily post average is so low there's almost no point). __________________ It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay. M.B. Keene

05-03-2008, 01:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
lotsofmagnets Upright Location: reykjavík, iceland	does jezebel have boobies in one place and another place where women get to discuss boobies without prejudice? i think not.þ __________________ mother nature made the aeroplane, and the submarine sandwich, with the steady hands and dead eye of a remarkable sculptor. she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron. physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?

05-03-2008, 04:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	TFP is unique in ways, and not so unique in others. We pride ourselves on being open-minded, but sometimes I think we open our minds to the point that our brains fall out. We allow discussions that would get people banned from other forums like 9/11 conspiracy theories in paranoia/politics and ladder theory in sexuality, and I think sometimes we're tolerant to a fault. On the other hand, memes, cliches, and catchphrases like lolcats and netspeak (especially the 4chan cornerstones like "win," "fail," describing everything good as "epic," etc.) are common here like they are on much of the Internet and I can't wait until they shrivel up and die.

05-03-2008, 06:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	It's like everything else in life. We're unique. Just like everyone else. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

05-04-2008, 04:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I think Something Awful is probably to blame, but I've had a good 5 or 6 years to get tired of the same old image macros and "motivational posters." I find it a lot more funny when people come up with their own original thought and leave the catchphrases and memes to the rare occasions where they'll be extra funny.

05-04-2008, 11:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	I jumped ship here to go to Something Awful, and wasted a helluva lot of time on it for almost a year before I got banned for something that, here at TFP, would have been overlooked and dismissed. I'd say we're like a small town where everyone gathers at the corner drugstore soda fountain to share gossip and chat. Only we're a tourist town and have to put up with city folk once in a while. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi