jewels

I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image.

- Stephen Hawking

I received this quote this morning and haven't been able to stop thinking about it.

It seems awfully depressing to look at it this way, but the only thing I can think of to compare it to would be cloning, which I'm not so sure is always a good thing. I can't seem to find anything at all positive in Hawking's statement as it, I'm ashamed to admit, would seem to be true.

What do you think? Can you find anything positive in his statement?

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Hain

Forgive my blunt, callous, impolite, unsympathetic, and darkly humorous comments that are to follow.

You have to admit: aside from being one of the top minds in theoretical physics of all the world, Stephen Hawking does not have much to look forward to when waking up in the morning. It is no wonder he doesn't write children's books for a living. But now look at the consequences of this destruction. Think of all the people that are now employed to prevent such despicable plans from endangering everyone else. Much like the sickness one overcomes to become stronger and pass on such traits to further generations. Here, the destruction is a challenge that pushes others to better a product, similar to ways we challenge each other to become better.

Maybe one day we can turn it around. I enjoy subjects like cloning, genetic engineering, and computer intelligence. Maybe one day we can get it right, or even our creations will take on better roles as stewards of the planet.

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lotsofmagnets

i was under the impression computer viruses were created these days soley to keep anti-virus software relevant and thus keep the market alive. i wonder how active virus creation with malicious intent still is these days...

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jewels

Wow. So you're saying it's a classic battle between good and evil. I'm thinking about this ...

I guess virus hackers are good for the economy, eh?

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
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blahblah454

Thats been my impression for quite some time. Kind of like vehicles having obvious problems that are "addressed" in the new model. Gotta make that money some how!

n0nsensical

I think it's still quite active. But nowadays the infected computers usually don't display any obvious symptoms: They're often used as part of much larger botnets. Virus writers have learned their lesson, that if you cause a big outbreak that screws with systems and pisses people off they will probably find you and send you to prison eventually. But modern computers are so complicated it's relatively easy to design one that flies under the radar especially to the vast majority of users as non-computer scientists. Unfortunately there is no one to punish for the evolution of new (natural) biological viruses. (God? ) (And most of the artificial ones are made by governments. )

These botnets can be used for various malicious purposes such as denial of service attacks and sniffing for financial information (there is serious money involved). Its very hard to tell if you're not actively monitoring your network connection and know what to look for. Hell, I could be infected with one right now and I know enough to make one myself (not that I would as I prefer to make constructive things), but I definitely watch my bank statements closely. I'm guessing this is similar to the reason that the most successful biological viruses don't cause serious harm to the host (ebola just wipes itself out whenever it enters a population), so considering computer viruses as a form of life is a very interesting concept, but I don't entirely buy it since they can't reproduce without major human assistance. Biological viruses inhabit the same sort of gray area as they can't reproduce themselves without a living host. But I suppose, DNA, machine code, at some level (like information theory) it's all the same shit, so if you count bio viruses why not computer viruses too. Cells are also physical machines, they have state, inputs and outputs.

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Ustwo

He should stick to astrophysics, hes said a lot of silly things lately outside of it. (And from what gather a lot of astrophysicists think he says a lot of silly things inside it as well)

First a lot of self replicating programs have been created which are not destructive, but as such they do not cause issues, being they were never designed too.

Secondly viruses lack what you could consider to be the most important aspect of life, the ability to evolve. I'm sure some people are working on this aspect, but even if successful what you have created is a simulation of life much like a MMO can simulate a world.

Evolution of sorts has been achieved in game theory type experiments but really that is not life as they have only been able to evolve as they were designed to under the conditions set out by the program.

Really Hawking seems quite depressed lately, and I can't really blame him, but I don't think he contains any great wisdom.

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sprocket

Cmon, havent you even seen Tron?!

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Herk

I had put some thought into this yesterday. It was my iGoogle quote. My wife and I actually had a discussion about it last night. I was reminiscing a story I had read several years back. I don't remember it clearly, but don't worry... I'll fill the missing details with my own vision.

Short form: There once was an intent to design a spacecraft that could be lifelike in this way. You would send out, say 10. If one were to make a successful landing somewhere where it was able to gather supplies for power and production, then it would begin production of itself until it ran out of one or the other, power or building materials. Each of the spacecraft that it built would be sent out blindly with the same instruction set as the last. These would maintain hop style communication with one another. People tend to like immediate answers to life's questions though. So, that fact that this would take a long time to produce many if any, coupled with the fact the just the communication would be slow and exponentially slower per generation keeps this from being feasible.

Off topic. Anyway, I think it is pretty fallacious, but I still love this guy, and I think that the quote has some merit. I think viruses are a bit embarrassing to mankind, but it is really just an addition the the laundry list of horrible things we've accomplished; not life.

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Fotzlid

I don't think he was shooting for wisdom or positive sentiments with that statement. He did, however, make a solid observation about human tendency to engage in self-destructive activities.

Ustwo

Its melodramatic gobbly gook.

Hawkins may be depressed but our possitive nature is why he is still alive and able to communicate with the outside world. It is our constructive nature which has us typing this sort of thing out, 1000's of miles apart discussing the words of a man who would have died 20 years ago if it weren't for modern science.

If I was good at photoshop I'd make a emo version of him.

This does come close.. http://hawkingemo.ytmnd.com/

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Fotzlid

Yeah, maybe it is melodramatic.
While humans do have a positive side, its the negative side that will be our downfall. Humans have a long history of killing each other over anything. Our current technology is just making it increasingly easier for a smaller number to do greater damage.

Seaver

If Viruses count as life than every computer program has to count as well.

Viruses only do what the designer tells it to... computer programs only do what the designer/operator tells it to do. Viruses can be transferred from computer to computer, so can programs. Viruses can be designed to talk to each other, programs have been doing that for generations.

In short... this statement is false regardless of who said it.

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Herk

Well, your almost right. Viruses do something that not all computer programs do. They self-replicate and spread from computer to computer. There are non malicious programs that do this as well. This is what makes them similar to life, in my opinion.

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