Cynthetiq

Really jobs closer to home? People go to where the jobs are, some will move closer, but not all. People balance it with what they consider "quality of life." Your quality of life is not going to be my quality of life, nor will it be anyone else's on this thread. They may be similar but they will not be the same.

You seriously want to live underground?

You've not every lived anywhere that has been a basement have you?

The government already does offer many tax incentives to the solar companies and to those that install solar panels and that the government should be subsidizing those businesses.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

People should take it seriously under consideration when applying for jobs, though. Even ignoring that commuting often adds a great deal of stress, and stress is linked to numerous health problems, it simply makes more sense. I used to work in Mountain View, which is a 30 minute drive from my home, but I now work downtown, which not only means I'm about 2 miles away, but it also means I can take the lightrail. These considerations mean I can sleep in longer, I avoid traffic, and I pollute very little.
Not being a refrigerator nor a water heater, I'm not sure where you're getting this.
Not only have I lived in a basement, but I liked it. Not only did I like it, but I'm actually seriously looking into earth sheltering as an option.
MORE! I WANT MORE! MUHAHAHA!! But seriously, the more solar panels are produced, the cheaper they will be. That's the ultimate goal: cheap solar panels for everyone.

girldetective

>> So...how have gas prices affected you? Has your standard of living changed? Have you made lifestyle changes because of it? <<

One place I notice it in the price of eggs, which has sometimes been triple what it was last year. I wondered about this for a moment and decided that it was not only the high price of getting the product to market, but also that corn has gone up in price too because of farmers selling for alternative fuel.

Edit: I still eat eggs most anytime I want in a high-spirited way, and will continue to do so.

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Willravel

What if the eggs are being sold as alternative fuel?!

girldetective

As well as turkey guts is what I read.

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As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Cynthetiq

People aren't you. There are some people who in your area travel 3-4 hours everyday to have a paying job. You should know that what you're proposing is next to impossible in most major metropolitan markets where housing is a huge expense. It's not as simple as waving your hand and decreeing it be so.

Grammar and punctuation. I read it as you wanted to live underground, and then you added:
There's a reason why basements aren't prevelant in California.

I don't want solar panels. Our buildings house 1657 units. There isn't enough area on top of the buildings to give enough electricity to make any real impact, except the cool hip factor of saying that your building is "solar". We also don't have enough sun days here in NYC to justify the costs. We do studies every couple of years to see if it is feasible.

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Willravel

It would be if I hadn't lost that lamp. But really, people should take it into consideration, though. What do you do again? Something with computers?
No, but having a refrigerator and water heater better insulated, like they would if they were in in the ground, would help to make them a lot more efficient.
That's a myth. There are plenty of basements in California, they're just required to meet a higher standard by the county they preside in. I have a basement and a bomb shelter myself. Both survived the 1987 earthquake without a scratch.
You don't need "sun days" to create electricity. Thick meto areas like those you live in could be compensated for by building solar arrays in desolate areas with plenty of sun (Arizona and New Mexico?). What I'd like to do is have people pay into one big fund and then build for everyone, but everyone hates how well socialism works, so build your own.

Ustwo

You know who else liked living underground?

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Willravel

But they were Neocons. That just raises a whole host of questions.

BadNick

I like the blonde one on the right. Plus I'm happy I just paid $0.25/gal less for racegas than I did last month, but I'm not sure why that is surprisingly holding price or going down but it probably has to do with different taxation on "non road use" fuels. Otherwise, my 25 mile commute each way to work which I've been doing for over 30 years ...now sucks even more than before. Not only the gas prices dig deeper into my pocket, but as will alluded to, I wish I had that time for myself as it would add at least 1-1/2 hrs to time I can spend with my family and friends. No way I can find a suitable job closer to home so I just factor this into my "when to retire" equation.

Plan9

Holy shit... it's David Bowie.

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Cynthetiq

They take it into consideration, they look at how much money they get paid and how much mortgage or rent they can afford. Now what? They realize they cannot live close to work. I can walk to work. These are MY sacrifices and quality of life. Again, my quality of life is not yours. Some people think I'm nuts to live in the city. I think they are nuts for having a 2 hour LIRR train ride.

so there we are. you wave your hand and now what? Just because you say it doesn't make so. Just because you considered it and it may be a possibility and choice for you doesn't mean it's an available choice for everyone.

Starting with a refrigerator, they are pretty efficient. They lose efficiency when people open them. I believe you are fishing for feelgoodness versus reality.

You shouldn't be driving your tuned mitsu I mean you can do so much more than the gas mileage that gets, why aren't you driving a Geo? Because you choose differently.

Funny how that's where you meant. I didn't mention earthquakes because they aren't the concern. Building a basement costs more money than not building a basement. Building a basement addes additional cost to an already strained housing price.

Oh right, desolate areas, so far away and we'll rely on cables to bring that electricity to our fair city. Well then, there's no reason why we aren't doing that already isn't there? Or maybe there really is a reason.

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Willravel

So you don't think that a refrigerator gains heat from it's environment when it's closed? That's interesting.
I own the Mitsu out of necessity. Have you ever driven on highway 17 between San Jose and Santa Cruz? It's a nightmare... that is unless you've got decent power and modified suspension. Like me! And I dare you to find another vehicle that has 320 hp and gets 28 mpg. I get better mileage than a Mazda Miata and I've got more power than most v6 engines. My car is a poster-child for efficiency.
Funny how you weren't clear.
Welcome to the "this has nothing to do with anything" hour. You brought up basements because you misread my posts and now you're trying to make a point that they're expensive? I never said that basements had anything to do with efficiency.
Of course there is, cost effectiveness. Aren't you reading my posts? We need cheaper solar so it becomes a more feasible solution.

thingstodo

I just am not buying 320 hp and 28 mpg. Ain't no way, no how! I wonder how the other poor souls drive your road that don't have big engines and modified suspension. Not sure I'd like to live like that but that's just me!

And by the way, a water heater in the ground wouldn't work as well as an insulated water heater above ground. My basement will stay a nice 60 F if I left it alone. I don't need to cool it in the summer. In fact, I have to heat it with a gas fireplace to take the edge off. Plus, I recirculate the cooler air throughout the house in the summer when we're not watching the big TV system or doing other activities in the basement.

Good luck with that option. No one is going to reduce. They aren't reducing with the SUVs and large pickups even now with $3.50 gas so what will change?

Government is owned by industry so don't look for those tax breaks any time soon - if ever. Thank you lobby industry.

And I'll have to refer to my nephew. There just ain't enough room for all the solar panels needed. Or wind turbines based on todays generating technology.

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Willravel

Forced induction is a beautiful thing, especially when you've got a good mechanic. He modified an AEM standalone fuel management system and I ordered a custom chip from a friend in AZ. 28 mpg highway, about 24-25 mpg city. So long a I don't drive it like a track car.
I'm not talking about a basement. I'm talking about a lot of high R value insulation surrounded by concrete. You have more space when you build below a house, room that would have to be sacrificed in order to make the water heater more efficient above ground.
How many people do you suppose have switched to compact fluorescent light bulbs in the past 5 years? How many do you think have purchased Energy Star appliances? How many Priuses have sold? These are all reducing use of energy by replacing with something more efficient.

Cynthetiq

Funny how it's "I need this..." and "other people need to change, not me..."

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

I have the most efficient car humanly possible for my situation. I even went so far as to spend a lot of time and money to make sure that was the case. How the fuck have I not changed?

Do you know the two most efficient two seaters available in the US? The Smart ForTwo, at 41 mpg, and the Mazda MX-5 at 27 MPG. Do you know what that means? I have the second most efficient two-seater right behind a vehicle that's backordered to kingdom come. Not only that, but I didn't buy a new car, when I could have, which saves even more oil.

If I can shave off some more weight, which is my plan, I can improve my MPG even more. My goal is 32 mpg.

Cynthetiq

well, then... shouldn't you be doing what you should? I mean why be #2, and not be #1?

oh right, again, other people should change.... and not consider their "necesities and needs"

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Willravel

I'm on the list to get a Smart ForTwo, actually.

Still, I've managed to get a hp to mpg ratio that's probably one of the best available. In the world. Why? Because I'm the only one who's unwilling to sacrifice gas for horsepower. The Eclipse turbo gets 28 mpg stock with 210 hp. I've added an additional 110 hp to that without losing a single mpg.

Cynthetiq

see again, you're allowing yourself to MAKE CHOICES but stating that other people should not have that same freedom.


again, everyone else should change.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

What choice am I making?

thingstodo

Cynthetiq - will obviously is driven to get in the last word in this conversation and pick apart each post line-by-line. And he's obviously done some incredible things with his "special" car so he can deal with a most troubling commute that we are fortunate not to have to face. Will has overcome insurmountable odds to make it to the top of the mountain and we should all heed his advice council. He doesn't need to change; we do.

A vast majority of Prius owners didn't have large SUVs. I do know one guy that traded a Ford F150 pick up for a Prius and traded it back a week later.

I was talking about change from people already moving in that direction. I was talking about the people solidly in the other direction. It's very easy to get someone to do something when they're already leaning in that direction, much like it is easy to manage a good employee. Not so easy when their beliefs havenm't changed because behavior follows belief.

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If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

biznatch

The gas prices don't affect me any more than me feeling bad for my driving friends and relatives. I walk and bike and commute(not out of choice, but because I don't own a car).

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thingstodo

You may not feel the price in terms of your own transportation but the prices actually do impact you in the form of price increases on everything that relies on fuel to be produced and transported. I think that pretty much covers everything we spend money on!

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If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

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thingstodo

I found this article and think it speaks to this thread. Will, perhaps yopu could give this a shot ;-))

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...590/1199/PRINT

OAKLAND COUNTY
Manure keeps recycler trotting
Horse owners send waste to power plant

Oakland County horse owners are taking advantage of a one-of-kind program that offers to cart away manure and convert it into electricity.
Mid-Michigan Recycling is picking up the waste free for farms within 35 miles of the Genesee Power Station or for a low cost for farms within 100 miles.
About 65 horse farmers, mostly in Milford, White Lake Township, Highland, Lake Orion and Oxford, have signed up. So far, Mid-Michigan has gathered more than 11,000 tons of waste and straw bedding.
Oakland has 6,900 horses -- more than any other county in the state, according to Michigan State University, which is promoting the program to farmers. The plant's permit allows it to burn up to 110,000 tons of material from horse farms per year, according to MSU.
"We love the service," said Sean Kelly, owner of Topline Dressage, a Clarkston farm that boards and trains 22 horses. Kelly used to spend $250 every three weeks for a company to haul his horses' bedding and manure to a landfill or composting center.
At the power station, the waste is mixed with dead ash trees and other wood waste to fire generators that make electricity. One 36-ton truckload of horse bedding and manure generates enough electricity to power 32 homes for a month, according to MSU.
The program, which began on a pilot basis about eight months ago, is the only one in the state, according to officials with the state Department of Environmental Quality, which regulates the plant.
Mid-Michigan's Donna Snyder, who arranges pickup of the horse bedding and manure, said the program helps offset the rising costs of hay and horse feed.
"The equine industry has really been hammered lately," she said. "This helps the farmers, it helps us, and it's good for the environment. It works."
Katie Callahan, barn manager Grosse Pointe Hunt Club in Grosse Pointe Woods, pays Mid-Michigan Recycling $800 a month to transport the manure and bedding left behind by the club's 40 horses. Callahan used to pay $2,000 a month to have the mess hauled to a landfill.
"It's a huge savings," she said. "And it's being used for something good."
The Genesee Power Station hasn't always been the subject of such positive commentary.
When the plant was built in the 1990s, the primarily poor, African Americans in the surrounding community sued to block its opening, concerned that the plant would release too much lead into the air when it burned wood from demolished homes covered with lead-based paint.
Local leaders contended the plant was located in their neighborhood partly because of racist attitudes that made it easier to pollute in areas populated by poor people or people of color.
The case eventually was settled with an agreement requiring a reduction in the amount of lead that the plant could release.
State air regulator Mike Masterson said the amount of pollution released into the air by burning the farm waste is the same as the amount released by the plant before it started burning the manure mixture.

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If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

blahblah454

Get one in Canada, Smartcars are sitting all over the place in dealerships here.

Tully Mars

They're right popular down here in Mexico as well. Was kind of taken abck the first time I saw how small they really are.

Personally I try to walk and or take the bus as much as possible. Even though gas here is still around 2.35 a gal. Diesel's just under $2.

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thingstodo

Say, Will - how will a Smart Car work on the rugged highway you travel to and from work?

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

blahblah454

It will look trendy, jeez

Charlatan

I don't even have a car anymore. I walk, take transit or take a taxi.

__________________
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surferlove007

Gas is frustrating...I'm already a broke college student and they're making me even more broke. I do drive a VW Beetle though so that eases my gas concerns more than the other idiots I see driving these huge trucks that guzzle gas. (If you drive a truck, then I'm sorry) James and I pretty much take my car everywhere since it gets about 35 to the gallon. I'm looking to get a motorcycle...75 MPG baby. Yea.

Ustwo

Keep your organ donor card up to date.

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Plan9

Huh... I just roll with the cute little cartoon heart on my M-class license.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

surferlove007

Thanks for the positive outlook, jerk.

JStrider

Being close enough to work to ride my bicycle was a big factor in me choosing what apartment I picked, and has been an equally big factor in the house I have chosen to purchase. It didn't have much to do with gas prices, I just enjoy riding my bike. And now that gas prices are higher its a nice perk.

My explorer gets 18-20 mpg on the highway, and 15-17 in the city. But I dont really drive all that much lately mostly just on the weekends or to the grocery store. once I get all the house stuff sorted out I will probably buy a bicycle trailer so I can haul groceries and other larger items with my bike.

http://bikesatwork.com/hauling-cargo-by-bike/

don't know if I'll go with that model its one of the more expensive ones.

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Willravel

... says the man who sticks his fingers between sharp teeth. Danger's a part of life.

vancityboi

here in canada its around $1.25 per liter

around 7-10 years ago. it was 30cents and when it rose to 45-50cents it was expensive

i take transit, so im good...get to sleep and/or read my book

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blahblah454

JStrider, I am actually thinking of moving somewhere that is really close to public transit and such, and I am seriously considering selling my vehicle and walking/biking or using public transit everywhere. Seeing that I could haul all my groceries, even large boxes, with my bike is awesome. I had no idea that they made cargo hauler like that for bikes.

Charlatan

There is a reason why motorcycles are called donorcycles by paramedics and emergency ward employees. I wouldn't say that's being negative, just realistic.

There is a greater risk in commuting via motorcycles.

And I say this as someone who rides.

__________________
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- Old Man Luedecke

Fly

yup....gas is kicking my ass lately.........$121.9 where i'm at,and that's the cheapest here that i've found.


brutal commute to work everyday and now it costs more too......



fuck sakes.

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