On being "killed for being different" - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Strange Famous · 03-28-2008, 11:44 AM

Everytime I read something as awful and squalid as this, it seems like this kind of violence, this kind of pointlessness, must somehow be a new horror. But maybe the banality of evil, to steal a phrase, really is as old as us.

You read about people microwaving babies, an act of sadism which is startling and disgusting... you read about a young women stomped to death by a bunch of bored and bad kids, because she was different, because once they started they couldnt stop, because of nothing.

I think we like to think that these people are mad, and they must be: and that they are evil, and their actions certainly are, and the reflection back onto them probably never can be scrubbed away... but this happens too often and too much. We read about it the West, but in land's where the law is less strong it happens more.... how far DIFFERENT to the human condition are these acts of destruction and aggression and harm?

Maybe we are all violent, cruel, feral animals - and good is merely an artificial restraint placed on us by society.

Quote:

Goth clothes 'prompted killing'

A 15-year-old boy kicked and stamped to death a woman because she was dressed as a Goth, a court heard.

The drunk teenager was among a gang of five who "savagely and mercilessly" attacked Sophie Lancaster, 20, and her boyfriend, Preston Crown Court heard.

Miss Lancaster was begging the gang to stop beating Robert Maltby, 21, when they turned on her in Stubbylee Park in Bacup, Lancashire, the jury was told.

The 15-year-old, who cannot be named because of his age, denies murder.

At an earlier hearing a 16-year-old boy, who was aged 15 at the time of the attack, admitted Miss Lancaster's murder and admitted attacking Mr Maltby.

The accused, and four other youths, two aged 17 and one 16, have already pleaded guilty to grievous bodily harm to Mr Maltby.

The court heard Miss Lancaster's facial injuries were so severe, paramedics did not know what sex she was.

Tests indicated she had been kicked and stamped to death, with the pattern of some footwear still on her head.

Miss Lancaster, a gap-year student, died two weeks after the attack.

Prosecuting, Michael Shorrock QC told the court the young couple, from Bacup, were walking home from a friend's house when they "fell into conversation" with a group of teenagers.

The talk was friendly and good-natured, the court heard, but five of a group of youths "turned" on Mr Maltby.

The accused had started the violence, with a flying kick to the head of Mr Maltby, the jury was told.

The gang, "encouraging each other and laughing" punched, stamped and jumped on his head until he was unconscious, Mr Shorrock said.

As Miss Lancaster kneeled down, cradling her boyfriend's head on her lap and calling for help, the accused and the then 15-year-old youth who has already pleaded guilty to murder, turned on her.

The second boy kicked her in the head, with the accused joining in, the court heard.

Paramedics found the couple lying side by side, covered in blood and unconscious.

Mr Shorrock said the gang had turned on the young couple simply because they were Goths or "moshers" and dressed differently to them.

Mr Maltby survived the attack in August last year but has not made a full recovery. He has no memory of the incident.

Mr Shorrock said the five, none of whom can be named, were "acting like a pack of wild animals".

"It would appear that Mr Maltby and Miss Lancaster were singled out, not for anything they had said or done, but because they dressed differently to the defendant and his friend," he said.

The case continues.

RetroGunslinger · 03-28-2008, 12:37 PM

It's sort of difficult to reply to something like this, simply because while I do understand why this sort of thing happens, I can't put myself in the shoes of the "accused". People don't like change, that's why anything that goes against the norm gets shot down, and that's just something we have to deal with.

On the matter of "good is merely an artificial restraint placed on us by society," yes and no. Yes, it is something we have constructed in order to bring order to everyday life (which I agree with), and no in that it is constructed from feelings we already have. Nothing about this is artificial. When you hurt somebody, you tend to have feelings of regret even when you don't like that person, so there is something there, it is simply molded to fit society.
Now, I live in the South and therefore regularly hear or participate in arguments about homosexuality. The logic behind the argument against gay marriage is "I don't want to live around that." So, it all boils down to the same selfish idea that just because one person or a group of persons don't like something, that's the way it should be. I personally hate this logic, because even though I don't like gay sex, I like the idea that people can do it if they so please. Likewise, I think goths look stupid, but I'm cool with them being who they are, because it doesn't have an effect on my life.

However, even I can be guilty of smaller versions of this kind of almost narcissistic thought, the kind you use to describe us as "feral animals." For example, I have a Mormon friend who is actually very intelligent, but has been brainwashed by her family into believing their way is the right way. I've been on two dates with her, and on both I ended up arguing with her about her religion. This of course makes me intolerant, which is the same word you could easily use to describe the boys in this case.

So, I agree with you. I believe we all have a certain animosity that makes us hateful of others who are different. Some have it worse than others, but we all have some amount of intolerance that is distinctly hurtful in some way.

dksuddeth · 03-28-2008, 01:54 PM

some people have control, some don't
some people care about others, some don't
some people like hurting other people, some don't

there are people in this world that don't care enough about life in general, therefore they have no problem taking that of others.

03-28-2008, 12:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
RetroGunslinger eats puppies and shits rainbows Location: An Area of Space Occupied by a Population, SC, USA	It's sort of difficult to reply to something like this, simply because while I do understand why this sort of thing happens, I can't put myself in the shoes of the "accused". People don't like change, that's why anything that goes against the norm gets shot down, and that's just something we have to deal with. On the matter of "good is merely an artificial restraint placed on us by society," yes and no. Yes, it is something we have constructed in order to bring order to everyday life (which I agree with), and no in that it is constructed from feelings we already have. Nothing about this is artificial. When you hurt somebody, you tend to have feelings of regret even when you don't like that person, so there is something there, it is simply molded to fit society. Now, I live in the South and therefore regularly hear or participate in arguments about homosexuality. The logic behind the argument against gay marriage is "I don't want to live around that." So, it all boils down to the same selfish idea that just because one person or a group of persons don't like something, that's the way it should be. I personally hate this logic, because even though I don't like gay sex, I like the idea that people can do it if they so please. Likewise, I think goths look stupid, but I'm cool with them being who they are, because it doesn't have an effect on my life. However, even I can be guilty of smaller versions of this kind of almost narcissistic thought, the kind you use to describe us as "feral animals." For example, I have a Mormon friend who is actually very intelligent, but has been brainwashed by her family into believing their way is the right way. I've been on two dates with her, and on both I ended up arguing with her about her religion. This of course makes me intolerant, which is the same word you could easily use to describe the boys in this case. So, I agree with you. I believe we all have a certain animosity that makes us hateful of others who are different. Some have it worse than others, but we all have some amount of intolerance that is distinctly hurtful in some way. __________________ It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay. M.B. Keene

03-28-2008, 01:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	some people have control, some don't some people care about others, some don't some people like hurting other people, some don't there are people in this world that don't care enough about life in general, therefore they have no problem taking that of others. __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."