UKking

Lack of sufficient money to thrive is a definate source of misrey. Up to a certain point, you need money in order to be relaxed enough to be happy.

If you can cover your bills, buy yourself something nice every once in a while, and maybe take a trip now and then, you'll be happier than if you can't.

Above that, there isn't a significant gain in happiness to be had by striving for more and more...

The_Jazz

One of the happiest guys I know, with 3 of the most normal, well adjusted kids I've ever met is a millionaire many times over.

Some of the most unhappy people I've ever met don't have 2 nickles to rub together.

Another one of the happiest guys I know is related to the latter clan and has no more money than they do.

Like you said, money can help. It guarantees nothing, though. I offer my last journal entry as proof.

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albania

We all have our own goals in life, and our own neurosis about it. So it's hard to say what if anything brings one happiness in general. For me it probably wouldn't be money, but I know that lack of it would likely make it impossible for me to pursue the life I want to live. I hope you're happy with a non answer to your question; all I can add is: maybe it does.

Jinn

It would definitely bring me happiness.

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SSJTWIZTA

Meh. ive always been poor, and i usually have a great big smile on my face.

But then again, if someone ploped a wad of cash in my hand my smile would probably expand.

ear to ear baby.

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girldetective

If you ask me money isn't necessarily inherent to happiness, but enhances it. And if one is comfortable enough there is always altruism.

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snowy

It would make it easier for me to be happy if I had more money; it would ease a lot of my anxieties to have a nice, healthy safety net. I would say money is often a worry for most people, and so taking that worry off the table allows people to be happier, and to more fully pursue their personal fulfillment.

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Lasereth

I think the wealth to happiness chart is a bell curve. There is a point when not having enough money makes you unhappy. Then happiness rises sharply as you gain wealth but eventually caps (not as high as you'd expect either). Then it starts going down. I read an essay in college about extremely wealthy people being absolutely dependent on society for protection. All of your wealth is constantly on the line and has to be protected by society so you're very dependent and stressed for the safety of your money.

I think the cap is when you can pay your bills every month, have zero debt (a mortgage may or may not count) and can pay for an emergency if it happens. Plus if you want to have a hobby you can spend something every month and be ok.

If you don't have enough money for something, you lust after it and desire it to an extreme degree. It is almost satisfying wanting something that you can't afford so when you finally get it you know you worked hard for it. On the opposite side, if you all of a sudden became a millionaire, you quite literally never want anything because you already have it. There is nothing to look forward to. You can't look forward to your next car because you already have it. Can't look forward to your next house because your current house is massive. You have everything in life and life's entertainment and satisfactory urge towards a goal are gone. I imagine it would be quite bland if you could never look forward to the day you got to have that big goal.

A coworker said that if his mortgage was paid off he would have $1,000 leftover at the end of each month and that would allow him to live like a millionaire. I believe him...and I also believe that is dangerously close to the wealth to happiness cap I mentioned.

So my concrete statement is rich enough to not have debt but not rich enough to have everything you wanted. That is happiness -- a worry free, but goal-based approach in life. How satisfying can life be if there is nothing to work towards?

Tully Mars

I agree with everything you just said.

At the times in my life when I've had the most money I also had the most responsibilities and the least amount of free time. Personally I've found that wanting less and living on less makes me more happy.

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Jinn

I think that happiness and wealth are directly proportional; a linear relationship. As my wealth increases, so too does my happiness. I don't anticipate a decrease in happiness relative to wealth. We're talking about money, not working, after all. If I were working more and having less free time for that wealth, then perhaps.

But I can't see being UNHAPPIER with more money, and I think that (disturbingly) this is a lie that the media tell us and we tells ourselves so we don't feel so bad about being poor.

But I know that most people believe the lie, so I will understand when you all disagree vehemently. I imagine I will hear a lot of "I'm not rich but I'm happy" comments of people feeling defensive, but I don't think any of you could in good faith pronounce that you'd be LESS happy with your bills paid off and more money than you could spend.

You're not supposed to say this sort of thing to people because it will make them sad if they realize that it is actually a lie, but this is the Internet and I can say whatever I want freely and openly.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Tully Mars

I believe you believe that. I also believe you might be right. Happiness is something each person has to define for them self. What makes you happy may in fact not make me happy. The likewise is also true.

I've read a few studies concerning lotteries winners and some point to very unhappy lives and some contradict that. I remember reading a study that concluded lottery winners were less happy then the general population and I thought "I'll volunteer to be in the winners group of that study."

I think you have a point about having money and having to work night and day to get it. Would I be more happy if a ton of cash befell me? Don't know but I'd be willing to find out. There's at least a couple boats and a plane I'd like to at least take out for a test drive. And if having money really created a bunch of problems I have a feeling I could find worthy causes to donate to and I'd be right back where I was before becoming wealthy.

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ratbastid

If there IS a relationship between money and happiness (and I'm not convinced there is), then for SURE it's not a linear relationship. There are people who have huge amounts of money in the bank, and it's never enough, and there are people with very little money in the bank, and life is wonderful for them.

I propose that it's our relationship with money that impacts our happiness, much more than our actual ownership of certain amounts of money. If I relate to money as something that's necessary but scarce, then my whole life is about being driven to make money and keep it--and I might end up with a fair amount of it, but that kind of life isn't generally conducive to a lot of happiness.

Jinn

You know what, I was being an ass when I made that generalization. I think you're right too. I know for me that it's linear, because I've (too) have read countless stories of millioniares who become intensely unhappy and/or end up in terrible debt, millions of dollars in the negative after being tens or hundreds of millions in the positive.

That said, I don't think I'd have an issue responsibly saving/investing/using millions of dollars, nor do I think that the things I'd buy (or sponsor) would bring me anything but additional unhappiness.

For example;

Being able to donate millions of dollars to the EFF in their fight for our fair-use rights and the broken patent system would make me VERY happy. Every day they won a case, settled a lawsuit or made the RIAA/MPAA pay, I'd get a burst of happiness. I can get a semblance of happiness donating $25 every year to that cause, but knowing that my MILLIONS was actually having a noticeable effect would make me happier in the traditional sense.

Likewise, if I were able to fund the TFP in such a way that it would never go away, no matter how many years from now everyone abandoned "this Internet", that would make me happy.

Or donating it to Feminst and egalitarian causes.

Most importantly, knowing that I could invest responsibily (even 5% of 2 million would be enough to meet my current quality of life, with INTEREST only) and provide an exceptional quality of life for myself and those I care for would bring a daily dose of happiness.

I'm not unhappy at all now, but I know that the additional bursts of joy could do nothing but increase my happiness, not decrease it.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Willravel

Money doesn't necessarily equal happiness, but it can.

Lubeboy

Money is a means, not an ends.

StanT

Money doesn't guarantee happiness, but it can make a lot of problems go away.

n0nsensical

Trust the folk wisdom. No it does not, because the primary purpose of money, beyond a basic level of sustenance, is to stimulate the short term reward circuits of the brain, which is only loosely connected to the idea of 'long-term happiness'. In fact, overstimulation of the reward circuits can make long-term happiness even harder to achieve because then your brain is always begging for the next, bigger, literal or figurative hit. You don't need to be rich to buy cocaine either, but no matter how much you can afford you have to stop some time, and the crash is proportional to the high. Thats just a result of the brain's negative feedback whether the stimulation is chemical or natural.

There is a lot that goes into being happy, and the results of money are only part of it. Money alone does not give you personal or spiritual fulfillment. Just ask the endless train of burned out celebrities. Life is still life, no matter how much fame or fortune you have, and having a lot of either leads to whole new sets of problems. There is a reason that those seeking enlightenment in the classical religions often take some type of poverty vow and eschew worldly pleasures. Happiness is being content with your life for what it is, not for what you own.

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QuasiMondo

Money doesn't buy hapiness, but it sure does help ease the pain.

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Tully Mars

I'd need a ton of cash to be a celebrity. Just the medication needed to go out in public might run in the thousands.

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Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Sion

someone once said "Money can't buy happiness, but it sure makes misery more bearable."

I agree with that. I can also see how having an excess of money (by which I mean millions) can cause problems a poor person will never know.

How happy do you suppose a rich person is when his/her child is kidnapped for ransom? Or the family of OJ Simpson's dead wife. If they ever get the millions he owes them, think they will be happy?

I don't think there's a causal relationship between money and happiness, but rather a correlation which may, or may not, have anything to do with causality.

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Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

miko

I think it can help make you happy but not by itself. I think making money is just one tool in your toolbox. And as we all know, when you don't have the right tool, you improvise. Some of us are better at improvising than others.

Fotzlid

I've been broke and scraping by from paycheck to paycheck.
I currently don't list money as a worry.
I much prefer the no worry.
Am I happier? Hell yes.

dd3953

This reminded me of a quote I once read (I wish I could remember who said it). It went something like "Maybe money can't buy me happiness, but I'd like the opportunity to try." I'd have to say I agree with that. I don't know about being rich, but I've been poor (yes, I lived in a house, but with no lights, gas, water, or food, it's poor). And I know it's a LOT easier to be happy when you can pay your bills, do something nice for yourself and have dinner.

So I'll have to agree with what most everyone else is saying: Money doesn't mean you will be happy, but it will ease some of the pain/troubles/worries/etc.

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[Technically, I'm not possible, I'm made of exceptions. ]

flat5

edit

Baraka_Guru

Money does not necessarily bring happiness, but it can certainly alleviate misery and prevent our being a burden on others.

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—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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levite

I gotta go with the notion that money does not equal happiness, but it's awfully challenging to have real happiness if every day is a struggle just to survive. Having some money is usually (but not inevitably and universally) necessary to maintain the inner resources to be happy, I think.

Personally, I like to be comfortable. I don't feel any real need to be rich. Just a decent apartment, pay the bills, and have some money left over to occasionally have some friends over for dinner, and be able to buy books.

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Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

Lebell

I'm finally to the "comfortable" point where my immediate needs are met along with some wants.

I don't see that having more would make me happier, but being under stress from having a lot less would make it harder.

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Atreides88

Money is definitely a source of happiness. The ability to do what you want and buy what you want comes with money. The ability to act on these impulses brings happiness.

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Tully Mars

In the short run, yes. In the long run, only maybe.

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Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Sion

there are aboriginal peoples all over this planet who haven't got two pennies to rub together, yet they are (or seem to be, when seen on Discovery or Nation Geographic, etc) very happy.

and, you don't need money to do what you want. unless, of course, what you want to do is spend money.

__________________
He's the best, of course, of all the worst.
Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

Baraka_Guru

Is acting on these impulses pleasure or happiness? How would you define each? I don't think they are synonymous, at least not philosophically. Pleasure, I think, is more based on sensual gratification, whereas happiness is more spiritual or deeply emotional.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Redjake

That's pretty much it - there is a threshold where your "profit margin" so to speak begins to drop off with increased wealth. I would be perfectly happy with making enough to have a nice house, a nice car, and enough to buy things every once in a while that I want.

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MSD

I'm broke, and I'm not happy because it limits my ability to do anything other than worrying about being broke. If I had enough money to cover bills, I'd have free time to spend being happy.

Halx

Money would allow me to chase after the things that make me happy without forcing me to do things that don't.

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Baraka_Guru

Money would buy me security, which would make me happy. Pursuing things that interest me and cost money would simply be the icing on the cake. I don't need things beyond basic necessities to make me happy, but if I'm constantly worried I won't have necessities if something goes wrong, it's a bit of a downer.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

biznatch

"Mo' money mo' problems"
I don't really think that's true. I do see wealthy families that are completely crazy and sad to observe, and I also see less wealthy people with a buttload of problems..child support, taking more than 2 hrs of commute to a shit paying job because that same job can't get them a car... Some people can have a little money, though, and still be happy.

I guess it also depends of what you want for your life. For me, growing up was easy. I was pretty fortunate compared to most kids. I received a good education, my parents were happy together, I had siblings...
Well all of this I still have. When I was a minor I always knew people a lot less wealthy who seemed very happy, so I thought I didn't need wealth as an adult. Now I am one with little to no money to my name, 50 bucks in the checking account, and I'm thinking.."when I have kids, do I want them to have the same opportunities as I did at their age (college, travelling to beautiful places, living in foreign countries..) or will I have to limit them to the basics? "
I don't know if money = happiness or not, all I know is that that question = unhappiness.. and if I did have more I would worry a bit less.

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robot_parade

Yes.

/end of thread

Dammitall

I think money can help facilitate happiness, as already stated above, by having enough to take care of day to day obligatory spending and limit the anxiety associated with it, as long as it does not feed an insatiable desire for more, whether "more" means more things to be bought with money, or more money to buy more things. Coupled with this is the expectation—often externally driven—that you always need more things, whether you have the money to afford them or not. I think that for some people having more money makes this expectation more difficult to ignore.

I'm currently reading "Affluenza" by John de Graaf, David Wann and Thomas H. Naylor. Published in 2001, its context still rides the wave of the dot com bubble and it mentions nothing of September 11th, let alone the Iraq and Afghanistan wars or the current housing market and mortgage lending crisis. But I found its theme of near-blind consumer attachment to, well, consuming, even more relevant given the current situation and wrote a journal entry—well, rant—about that this morning.

Fundamentally, I don't believe we need even a third of what we're told that we can't live without. For those that do believe this, more money can become fuel for that engine of consumption that, as stated in this book, will never let up to allow them to actually enjoy living their lives and feel happiness. If I remembered it correctly, I'd quote that adage about striving to be happy with what you already have and not what you want. Or however it goes.

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Hain

From what I have read here, to summarize, money just makes it easier to be happy.

percy

I think money is a means and also an ends. Especially if you have lots of it