Meridae'n

There is pressure within the UK to outlaw spanking. Do you think this a step to far? Why or why not?
Link...

In my opinion, the practice is about as archiac as hitting your wife to keep her in line, except women had a liberation movement. Children have not been so lucky.

Spanking teaches children that the way to deal with problems is to use violence, so for me, no, it is not going to far. Any parent that needs to resort to violence to discipline a child is not in control of their actions and is not raising their child well at all.

I just fear the ability of this law to be enforced fairly without government agencies meddling too far into parenting regulations...

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miked10270

Speaking as a father of 4 children I strongly disagree with Meridae'n's opinion.

It seems to be fashionable at the moment to insist that children are miniature adults. They are not. They simply do not understand the consequences of their actions or the effect that their actions may have on others. They have little sense of right and wrong and do not understand subtle punishments or attempts to reason with them.

As you may gather I have physically and verbally abused all of mychildren on occasion in the past. For example, one of my children, about 30 months old at the time would run out of the house, straight across the road to get to the playpark. Perhaps unsurprisinglyhe was a bit young for the whole Green-Cross-Code thing, and only leaving the house with his parents didn't interest him. All he would, could focus on was getting to the playpark.

Ultimately he did almost run out into the road in front of a car and I grabbed him, smacked him of his buttocks and screamed "DON'T" at him. I think that this was the point when he realised that Dad was serious about him not crossing roads alone.

ANother time, my 3 year old and my 4 year old were fighting over a toy (any parent will know how this works - the most desirable thing in the world to a child is the thing your sibling is playing with). I mean really fighting. I went through the telling them to stop fighting, shouting at them to STOP, and taking the toy away when telling them to stop had no effect. Of course, at that point both kids blamed the other for the loss of the toy and they started to exchange blows. I seperated them (physical abuse), smacked both of them (second count of physical abuse) dragged both of them to their rooms (third count) and "grounded" them in their bedrooms for an hour (add in a count of verbal abuse, imprisonment and mental torture).

Perhaps I should have just tried to reason with them while they were beating each other up?

ANother example was one of my daughters, then aged 6, in a VERY busy, crowded shopping mall who decided that she was going to run away from us. Again, this escalated from asking her to behave, to telling her to behave, to threatening her with the consequences of not behaving, to (on the fifth occasion she ran off and hid) to the preceding threat being carried out. I pulled her pants down in the mioddle of the mall, smacked her bare bottom twice, and pulled her pants up. I suppose that would be child assault, mental torture, verbal abuse and public humiliation.

My point is that there are times during a childhood that parents (or the adult with care) HAS TO GET PHYSICAL! There are times when it is in the larger interests of the child to link a transgression and the punishment directly in time and place. From a practical point of view the only effective punishment immediately to hand (no pun intended) is a smack.

I'm not proud of the times I have smacked my children, nor am I ashamed of doing it. I show them love and teach them social discipline. That's my job as a parent. To do that I must be consistent and never make empty threats or promises. Apart from the "road" incident, I had told my kids to "behave" or they'd be smacked. They didn't behave, and they were smacked. As a result of this, I'm proud to say that I'm frequently complimented on my kids' behaviour. I think that I'm doing it right, and i don't need the government or a bunch of bleeding-heart-liberals to tell me how to do my job.

My children are fully aware of the "Rights of the Child". I have explained to them that they "Have the absolute right to do as they are told"!

Mike.

Miekle

You can teach a dog quicker to stop pissing on your carpet by putting his nose in it and slapping it once saying no than you can by throwing him outside when ever you *think* he has to go and giving him a treat.

I was brought up on spankings and see nothing teribly wrong with it. I did something wrong I got a smack on the but I didn't want to do it again. I haven't grown up abusive hell I couldn't even kill the chipmunk in my house I had caught under my foot. (grandpa had to come and get it) So I don't think spankings should be outlawed. Soon little kids won't get thier way so they will start saying thier parents are hitting them or something.

bartgroks

I agree with the poster. Children can be reasoned with and taught by example. Children are not sub-human nor are they dogs. Does anyone potty train by rubbing their childrens noses in feces? I can see that it is appropriate to to use force to restrain a child that otherwise might harm himself but using force to punish the same child is not ethical.It is crucial that my child do the right thing because he knows what is right, not out of fear of retribution.

That said involving Child Protective Services or the eqiuvalent in a family affairs over a spanking is like treating a cold with a blowtorch. Even though spanking is wrong I can not abide making it illegal.

My 12 year old honor student is a well behaved and well adjusted young man. I have never found the need to strike him.

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boredjerk

My parents claim they spanked me but I don't remember ever actually getting spanked. I spank my 1-year-old very occasionally. It doesn't hurt, it's through a diaper. He doesn't understand enough to reason with him and yelling at him makes him giggle. He very quickly learned not to go near the woodstove after a couple very mild (but very quick) spankings.

Outlawing it is ludicrous.

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Meridae'n

I guess i don't agree with your opinions as my mother was very harsh and used to spank me with the kettle cord a lot.

My father never hit me once but i was 10 times more scared of him than mum.

I wouldn't say i'm dead against spanking. The fact that i have never had children does not afford me the right to be overly against the practice.

Miked: do you think that your 30 month old child reacted more to the spanking or the raising of your voice? Do you think the grounding of the 3 & 4 year olds had more effect on them than the spanking?

It's been widely acknowledged that humans do not take physical punishment into consideration when weighing up the decision to commit a crime (or in this case, disobey a parental command), and i am interested to know (as i really have no idea) if your spanking of them got your children to realise how their actions made you feel, or the resultant yelling/grounding...

For the record, when i reread the article i realised i would not want spanking to become totally illegal. The people that should be stopped would not care if it is illegal or not, and the responsible parents that use it as a means of effective minor punishment would become the victims...

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absorbentishe

I am a parent, and as I get older, and my children get older, the spankings have stopped. I haven't spanked my 10 year old in a very very long time, unless it was in play, which makes it not spanking. I don't agree with pulling the childs pants down and spanking them in public.. If any of my children were misbehaving in public, I would warn them twice and say if it continues, there will be a punishment. If I were in a public place (mall, store, etc...) I would take my child to the restroom.

The fear of being spanked worse than the spanking itself. As I was growing up, just the fear of my father or mother spanking me was enough deterent.

On the same note, how can one without children be forcing their views on those that have children.

Okay, that's enough from me on this subject.

Andric

I agree with this statement. My mom and dad both spanked me for wrongdoing, and I never felt abused, but rather, loved. I spank my kid when he needs it, and all is well. The only caveat that has to be remembered is that they must know WHY they got a spanking.

warrrreagl

Yet again, more evidence of the death of common sense. I believe the rationale behind this thinking is that if spanking is allowed, then somebody may get abused and injured. Therefore, society must legislate a removal of all potential threat to anyone, regardless of the idiocy.

In the "hands" of the right parents, spanking works. In the hands of an idiot parent, NOTHING will work. Society simply cannot legislate responsible parenting skills.

Someone told me a story once about a class exercise in a law school where the students were given an assignment to write instructions for the completely safe use of a hammer. Impossible. The thrust of that assignment was to bring the students back to reality and emphasize that perfect safety does not exist and functional living cannot be legislated.

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smarm

I have struggle with this one. I have 2 wonderful girls under 8 years old. One of the girls is very confident and a bit strong willed, which I consider very positive traits. The negative side effect of the willfullness is that sometimes she won't listen. I recently experienced something similar to what miked10270 posted, my girl walked away from a gathering we were attending (with me following right behind her telling her to stop). She turned a corner and I lost sight of her for a second and by the time I got around the corner she was gone. For 30 minutes I searched for her, I enlisted all the parents at the gathering, and eventually she was found in a restroom... I was absolutely terrified, ashamed, and embarrassed by the incident (and hugely relieved by the outcome). I spoke to her in no uncertain terms about that kind of behavior and told her there would be repercussions to her actions (we obviously immediately left the event). I discussed it with her mom and we made a decision that she REALLY needed to get the message on this one and I gave her a spanking.

This was easily the hardest thing I have ever done, and not something I ever want to do again, but I would in a similar situation. This was the first spanking I have ever given her, and I didn't do it when I was hot. I did not cause any lasting physical pain, but the sheer shock of the event seemed to get through to her. I guess that remains to be seen, however.

Our particular philosophy, which I don't think is necessarily right for anyone other than us, is that all other options need to be exhausted before physical punishment is used, except in situation where repeating the "bad" behavior could seriously endanger the child (or someone else). We would never... and I use that work with much trepidation... spank our child for a "table manners" offense, but actions like running across the road without looking, running away from her parents, or doing something that could endanger someone else are things that need to stop and stop immediately. Those are situation where I could imagine needing to resort to a spanking again. I also think the threat of a spanking will be much more effective if it is used infrequently (both the threat and the spanking.)

I also believe that as my children get older, reason and other non-physical forms of punishment will become much more effective. My kids are not older yet, however, so I have no experience to back up that statement. It just seems like there will be more "message sending" devices available as their world gets larger and spankings will be less necessary.

I may not be a great parent, and my methods could definetly be improved, but I don't think I have abused my child, and I certainly don't think that spanking should be considered criminal. Beating a child is different and inexcusable. I think the line is not that hard to find between beatings and spankings.

rat

As a young boy and young man, my father was on the receiving end of quite a few "whoopings" as my grandfather called them. Not with my grandfather's hand, but rather with a leather belt. The belt got used as my father increased in age and size. My father, being on the receiving end of those blows (only to the buttocks, never anywhere else), vowed to never strike his children.

When my sister was 18 months old, she spilled her cheerios and milk all over the floor of my mother and father's kitchen. My father screamed--once. My sister never got out of line in any significant way again while our parents were in sight. So yea, there are times when spanking is not needed with certain children.

Then I came along. I was hell on wheels for my parents, and never seemed to learn any of the lessons they taught me--especially concerning my behavior. My father used to give me whoopings with his hand, but as I got larger, the belt came out of the loops and was applied to my ass. And still I misbehaved. But far more than I ever got whooped, the sheer threat of one would still my bickering, cut short my protests and improve my behavior--even if I was only with my mother. I got my last whoopin when I was 14. Some people say that by that age, whoopings loose their instructive capability and the child is too old for them. I beg to differ, and do so wholeheartedly.

Sitting here, at the age of 20, I realize that compared to other children that cut up in school, in stores, threw shitfits wherever they went when they didn't get their way, my parents had me trained. I fucked up, they let me know about it, and then my dad let me know why I shouldn't again. As a six year old, I couldn't comprehend that combining lighter fluid and strike-anywhere-matches out back of my grandparents house could create a serious problem if I didn't watch it very closely. But I could sure as hell comprehend "Go cut your own switch" coming from my grandfather when it came time that I thought about doing it again.

As it stands, I've had the pleasure of teaching kids from the ages of 3 to 12. I taught swimming to these kids, and I brooked no insolence from them. I told them in plain terms, in exactly the manner my father had, what they would and would not do, and what would happen if they did not do as they should. I sat more children on the side of my lessons than any other instructor. Kids that came into my classes causing problems for their parents in our pool area left my class behaving better than they had before. I had the most tightly controlled classes but the most freedom to do with my kids what I wanted than any other instructor. When they found out that I followed through on my word (even when it came to them being in trouble), they came to trust me when I said something. My kids didn't run, they didn't talk back, and they didn't fight--and I had more returning students than any other teacher for the 9 months or so I taught.

Spanking works, as long as it's done consistently and fairly (kid crosses the line too far, he gets a whoopin), just like any form of discipline.

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suviko

We have a law like that in Finland. Talk to someone working in the wellfare who deals with difficult cases and like with warrrreagl's hammer example, that person will tell you it is impossible to make a law that would work in all counts. But the law is made to protect the children and as it's been said, they don't understand to make noise for their rights and legally they are not fully able untill they are 18 so the law has to give the state and other people some amount of power to prevent domestic violence.

The police won't come knocking on your door if you have slapped your kid once. Also cruelty to animals is forbidden but you gotta do something more than give your puppy a flick on the snout.

The idea of the law is that the public attitudes will change and less people will hit their children. It is only referred to if there is really NEED to. Nobody will act like you are a criminal if you admit you have slapped your kid.

My dad was an alcoholic, but he was also an executive level manager in a big corp. He beat up the whole family. I will skip a lot of stuff, but once I ran to the nearest neighbour and asked the father of the family who I knew really well to go help my mother out of the house. I was not kidding. My dad once hit my mom in the wrist with axe that had the sheath on and I called the cops. The neighbour said he won't go to another man's house. WTF??! It's also *MY* house when I am 10 years old kid living in that house. I have never forgiven to that neighbour. This is why the law is required!

ninety09

I will never ever spank my children. It's something I can't even consider doing. My parents never spanked me, there are other ways to punish children. Violence is just plain wrong in my opinion, and I totally agree with making spanking illegal.

gov135

I think there should already be laws in England dealing with child abuse.

Spanking, by a parent, is not abuse. If it becomes abusive, then the laws should apply.

Otherwise, leave it alone.

shalafi

exactly. spanking a child and beating it are 2 completely different things. My parents spanked me when they thought it was warrented but never once beat me. Outlawing spanking because some people abuse thier children is like outlawing matches because some people commit arson. Its just stupid.

ratbastid

That's just not true, and perpetuates the myth that negative reinforcement is "better" than positive reinforcement.

Dogs and people (and all other animals) learn best through positive reinforcement, and they're ennobled in the process. Learning through fear, abasement and demeaning methods work, but not as quickly or effectively, and they feel bad to everyone involved. That's why spanking is such a contested issue.

I have no opinion on spanking children. I was spanked, and I love my parents and appreciate that they were willing to go to that length to see that I did what they saw as right. Would I spank my children, if I had any? I don't know.

suviko

Actually psychologically punishing shows what NOT to do. It doesn't still automatically teach what to do instead. That's not even the biggest problem which is learning motivation. Learning is always more effective when it's motivated and some people can argue you get motivation from being slapped, but that gives you "outside motivation". Trying to do the right thing to feel good about yourself is an inner motivation source and they are always better.

raeanna74

I have worked with Children for 17 years. I day care, teaching, tutoring etc. I have seen extreme cases in all respects including a child without lower legs and feet because of his mom's "punishment". That bothers me most is that they are bothering to make this law while still allowing abusive parents to have custody of their children at times. I think their powers should be excercised elseware first.
I have a 3yr old daughter (will be 3 in one month) who I have spanked on occaision. I have NEVER left a welt let alone a bruise. I have found that at times depending on the disbedience that sending her to her room for even 2 or 3 minutes is sufficient to get her attention. I have reserved spankings for times when her well being is in danger (ie. running across the road) and when I have no time to send her to her room or am not near her room. With a child that young, promising to send them to their room when you get home is not effective and only causes them to be confused. Immediate punishment is most effective.
Spanking must be done within guidlines. Those are:
1. Only spank when you are calm. If you spank in anger the child can confuse the spanking with your anger instead of realizing it was a consequence of THEIR actins. Also if you spank in anger you are not in control of yourself and could inadvertantly harm the child.
2. Only use your hand on their bottom or another item that is easy broken and not heavy. No whip like objects. My mother used paint stir sticks. They made a loud sound, did not cause a lot of pain, and would break if she used them too hard. A frying pan even if used lightly can cause damage. The paint stir sticks would not. A ping pong paddle works well too as it mostly makes noise and would break if used to hard.
3. Before and after give a brief explanation of the reason for spanking.
4. Afterwards show affection, give a hug, snuggle, etc.

As children my brother and I were at times given the option to chose our punishment, for example we would be grounded for our rooms for the evening or given a spanking. We'd often choose the spanking because even though it stung some it was brief and we could go on playing. Spankings were a consequence for disobedience and never an outlet for our parents anger. When handled right spankings can be one of many tools that a parent can use.

In my experience, the children who's parents did spank when necessary only were better behaved than those who reasoned with them and never spanked. I have seen children who hit their parents and then parents tried to reason with them about it. They didn't learn that violence from their parents example but they learned they could get away with it and only have to listen to "reasoning". Kids know what they can get away with. The consequence has to be harsh enough to be effective depending on the child.

Sorry so long. I feel strongly about this. Spanking should never be outlawed. Leaving bruises is already outlawed and that is sufficient.

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YELLOW450

Too many examples to list but if you think there will be problems down the road with repurcussions of children being spanked,,, just make it illegal and THEN you will see problems.

suviko

It is illegal in Finland and we don't have any problems (I can only imagine what you might mean, like childern trying to sue their parents or parents being fined for slapping a child in public). The law is only used in serious (=repeated or severe) cases.

toppimi

What a load of horsehsh*t. Every person I know who got spanked as a kid turned out to be a REAL person, not some mama's boy "daddy don't touch me or I'll call the cops" buttholes.

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forecheck

A single smack on the butt to get a child's attention is acceptable. It helps to ensure that the child paying attention.

This is not a violent action done in anger. It is not a sneak attack from behind to surprise the child. It is done during the discipline stage after the child has done something inappropriate.

Usually after the child has done this inappropriate thing too many times.

It is always followed by an apology explaining why you gave the child a smack.

My daughter is 9 years old. I probably gave her a smack on her butt about 10 times. Most of those smacks were no where near hard enough to actually hurt her. But they were effective in getting her attention.

Will this be effective for all. Probably not . But any violence done in anger is way inappropriate.

Fallon

I don't agree with this proposed law at all. I've only been spanked once in my life, and I believe it was because I was either stealing stuff, or swearing. I think my mother felt worse about it then I did. But anyway, my fiancees little brothers, and I believe she'll agree with this, should get a spanking. They are little terrors who don't get the hint. They have plenty of toys in their rooms so that's not really a punishment for them. One of their harsher punishments is taking away their gameboys, but then they have the computer, nintendo or N64. I don't know if they'll learn any other way on how to act, but my fiancee's mom is to kind to her children.

hrdwareguy

I have a 2 year old son. Yes, I have spanked him. Now when he is doing something he is not supposed to do (and he knows he is not supposed to be doing it), all I have to do is say, "Do I need to spank you" and the behavior stops. He knows what he is doing is wrong and if he continues what the consequenses will be. By the way, spaning = one or two firm quick smacks on his butt.

If we are in public and he is misbehaving, we have done different things. If it is a place he wants to be, we leave. Otherwise he gets in trouble right there, and if that means being spanked in front of god and everybody in the middle of Wal-Mart, so be it. This crap of, "When we get home your going to be in trouble" is insane. Kids have almost no attention span and by the time you get home they have forgotton what they are getting in trouble for.

Also, can someone explain to me how to sit down and reason with a 6 month old??

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Tirian

I must be an abnormal human. As a child I certainly took thoughts about physical punishment into consideration before commiting acts of misbehaviour. Of course I was a child in an age where schools were allowed to use a strap. I got one smack once, and would consider that fact every day I went to school for the rest of my grade school career.

Also quoted from above....

" Sorry so long. I feel strongly about this. Spanking should never be outlawed. Leaving bruises is already outlawed and that is sufficient."

The last sentence here is where I stand on this thread. Leaving bruises is already outlawed and that is sufficient.

I'd like to see it back in schools, but maybe only with parental consent with a suspension alternative or some clear guidlines. Parents gotta help more in school discipline. (But this is sounding a bit like a whole other thread.)

Charlatan

I have an 8 year old son that I have never had to spank and don't plan on doing so. There are ways to teach discipline other than resorting to hitting children.

In my opinion, hitting is the lazy approach to teaching your kids.

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miked10270

Hi there,

This fascinating post has raised some fundamental points about childcare...

Hi Bartgroks - no-one is suggesting that children are in some way sub-human, but under about 6 - 7 years old, children are completely self-centred. In freudian terms, Id develops by about 18 months, Ego by about 3 years, but Superego doesn't develope until about 6 years.

Hi Ratbastid, My own opinion is that neither negative or positive conditioning works in isolation. Both the carrot AND the stick must be used as appropriate. As you say, negative conditioning only tells the child what not to do - like running out into the road, pushing a sibling down stairs... While positive conditioning tells a child what to do, like saying please & thank you for a treat.

Just as an aside - One of my big things is courtesy. From about 18 months, if my kids want something then "Please" goes at the end of the sentence or they don't get the thing they want. Having got what they've asked for politely, I then expect "thank you" or the item gets taken off them & to get it back it's "please" again (and to keep it it's "thank you"). It sounds draconian but the pay off is when they approach someone outwith the family...

Hi Absorbentishe, I concur, as my kids get older then reasoning does replace corporeal punishment as they become able to understand reasoning. That said, the threat of a smack and the childs belief that I am willing to do so seems to act almost like the nuclear deterrent.

Many of you have talked of being hit using some instrument! Personally that is something I could not countenance. For me it is my flesh versus my child's so I feel it too. The use of a cord, belt or paddle implies that the parent is willing to inflict pain but does not want to experience the sting against their own hand in consequence. For me it implies a willingness to inflict more pain than they can stand themselves. It also implies some preperation and delay in the punishment wheras I believe that for young children the punishment should be immediate so that the transgression and the punishment is fixed together in their mind.

Hi Gov135, There are lws in england to deal with child abuse, Offences of "Assaulting, Ill-Treating, Neglecting, Abandoning, or Exposing a child in a manner likely to cause unneccessary suffering or injury to health". Speaking as a servong cop of 17 years, I would report somebody using an electrical cord or a belt or similar against their child and let the courts decide if this is "excessive force". I would not report somebody for using their bare hand to smack unless serious injury is caused.

Hi Raeanna74, I think you hit the nail right on the head when you offered your guidelines. As a parent control and consistency in discipline is everything, & reassuring the child that despite the smack they are still loved is vital.

Regards,

Mike.

sierra2774

I never spank my kids...I have two, ages 8 and 4.

I use the "time out" method or I ground them for a day or so, depending on what they do. They are the most well behaved children I know. I am not saying this because they are mine, because they can be bad for me, but I don't spank...I see no point in showing them that hitting them for doing something wrong, is right.

My Best Friend spanks her children constantly, almost to the point of abuse and they are the worst behaved kids I have ever been around....No matter how many times they get beat, they still come right back and are bad again, just so they can get beat again.

I have seen this first hand, that spanking does not work at all...I am sure people will disagree with this, but talking rationally and reasoning with your children will make them respect you better as a parent...When you beat them all the time, they will just be afraid of you and hate you for it.
I don't want my kids to be afraid of me.

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Sparhawk

I was given the belt once as a child. From there on out, if I misbehaved severely, my dad would take his belt, hand it to me, and have me go upstairs to his room to wait for him 10-30 minutes with the belt.

He never needed to give me the belt again.

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Paper Clip

I have a 2 year old and another child on the way. I have not spanked my child, but I would not rule it out, either. Like everything, in moderation, can be useful as a disciplinary tool. Spanking would be a last resort for me, but I'm sure it woul dmake an impression on my child.

Charlatan

Exactly my experience Sierra...

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MacGnG

i agree with sierra.

bartgroks

hi miked10270I -Stating that another class of persons is unable to learn without beatings and subject to force at the discretion of another class of beings is to treat the former class of beings as sub-human. I don't know much about freud, my initial forays in to his works led me to beleive he wrote a bunch of nonsense. I do know something about AI and current child development theory and children are capable of learning prior to birth even. My son (the one who has never been struck) was a phonetic reader shortly after his third birthday.

Im sure your a good parent Mike and I would never tell another parent how to raise their kids. (Its on my list of ways to piss people off, its near the top even . You mentioning that your not proud of smacking your kids shows your heart is in the right place.

And on to general comments:

I was spanked as a child. All it ever did was make me think "One Day motherfucker your not going to be able to do that to me!"
Spanking does not work. As sierra2774 stated spanked children are often the worst behaved children. You cannot use force to inflict PAIN on your children and expect them not to learn from the example. If spanked children grow up well-adjusted it is in spite of the spankings not because of them. If you cant find some level you can reason with your child on thats your fault. Also the talk of "punishing" children disturbs me. No matter what means you use the focus should be on correcting the behavior not punishment.

I have changed my mind. Spanking should be illegal and driven underground. People must be forced to look at this modern day barbarism they have faith in and reconsider. I worry that my son is in the company of children that have been taught by example that smacking other people when you disagee with their actions is acceptable behavior.

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cdwonderful

I agree with you too, sierra.
(besides those kids are too fast for you to catch anyway)

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Meridae'n

If you read my posts carefully I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone, i'm putting my opinion out there and asking for discussion.

I can have an opinion on this as i was hit ALOT when i was young, which i strongly disagree with. I see alot of people giving us the old 'I was hit when i was young, and i turned out alright' line... Do you not think you would've turned out the same had your parents used a different form of punishment?

@Tirian: corporal punishment will not, and shouldn't be reintroduced into schools. A good reason: it's a sexist form of punishment. Do you want a grown man spanking your 10 year old daughter? There are so many reasons why your answer is no...

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Derwood

I just can't reconcile teaching two kids not to hit each other by hitting them....what does this teach them? If the argument is that you can't reason with them, they certainly aren't going to be able to differentiate you hitting them from them hitting their brother.

I don't believe that kids should fear their parents. To me, that is an unhealthy relationship that can be long lasting and far reaching into the kid's future. There are many other deterrants (sp?) that can "sting" just as much. Here is an example:

When I was in 1st grade, I stole a pudding from the cafeteria line. I got caught. My parents were called. Now many parents would spank their kid for stealing. My parents chose instead to not let me watch "The Wizard of Oz", which at the time (1981) was on TV just once a year around Easter. I had been looking forward to watching it for months, and they made me go to bed that night early.

THe biggest problem a lot of parents have is that they give their kid too many chances. I think you simply say "Do that one more time and no Nintendo for a week," and when they do it again, the Nintendo gets locked up. And no backing down either. If you say the Nintendo is gone for a week but then let them use it two days later for "good behavior", then the kid has won.

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Tirian

In my youth in school it was done across the palm of the hand with a flat rubber belt type thing. It stung, but did no permanent damage, and was dished out by male and female teachers.

The only thing sexist about it was the fact that girls seemes to rarely act badly enough to deserve it.

rat

Some of you seem to misunderstand where we who support spanking come from, and have used deliberately misleading and blatantly biased terms such as "brutality, violence and beating" to refer to a swat on the ass. You say that force and threat of force don't work properly as training methods, and you disagree with the application of those tools in training children.

So I have a few questions. Do you go speeding in your car past the police station? Do you drive more carefully with a police car directly behind you? Do you look at the gun on a policeman's belt and decide to behave yourself around him without him ever having drawn it? Would you let some things slide in front of a police officer that would normally start a fistfight?

Simply put, the answers to those questions are the exact same for me, even if you were to replace "police officer" with "parent" and "police station" with "parent's house." I'm 20 years old, haven't had a spanking in roughly six years, but my parents taught me there were consequences for my actions, just as there are consequences for breaking the law. Yea, there are things that are only worth a slap on the wrist or a speeding ticket. But there are other things that warrant a whoopin or jail time. If you put a 5 year old in a jail cell for three days at county, he wouldn't comprehend exactly why he was there, he'd just know that this wasn't home and he missed his parents.

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Destrox

With out going into huge depth upon this subect, since most everyone's opinions here are going to be set in stone as it is.

I'll just give the facts of what I believe.

Spanking is a perfectly good, and classic method of punishment.

I've seen more decent people (I'm not talking 20+ years up, from there people can make thier own choices) that were spanked.

More often then not kids of parents that do not belive in any physical punishment FAR to often push the limits with what they can and cannot do. They often turn into little *asshole punks* as I like to look at it. Everyone usually will grow out of this, but not all.

Verbal punishment is just to weak, and to easily dismissed.

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Charlatan

Derwood... you make a good point. Consequences are important and parents who can't teach their children that there are consequences to their actions (other than violence) are lazy.

Stick to your guns. If you say you will take away their privileges (ie Nintendo or TV) do it. Don't make idle threats and don't make threats you can't possible follow though with (if you do that again you will never watch TV again! Kind of hard to enforce).

I also agree that a week is a week. There is no time off for good behaviour.

Of course for many parents Nintendo and TV are very good babysitting tools. Once the kid is ensconced the parent is free to do what they want.

Parents need to spend more time with their kids.

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