Montessori and school shootings (merged) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

lktknow · 02-20-2008, 12:36 PM

It seems as if all the threads on the shootings, end up being discussed as a gun control issue.
And , although it is a very valid point, and should be dealt with.
The problem with the shootings goes far beyond gun control.
I truly believe that Maria Montessori had the answer, to man's inhumanity to man in her theory concerning the child and how he is being raised .

in an excerpt from one of her lectures, it states:

Quote:

The education that can result “will lead the way to a new humanity” and that education—

—has one end alone: leading the individual and society to a higher stage of development. This concept involves many factors and may seem obscure, said Montessori, but it becomes clearer if we realize that mankind has to fulfill a collective mission on earth, a mission involving all of humanity and therefore each and every human being.

She talks about normalization:

Quote:

Normalization is a technical word borrowed from the field of anthropology. It means becoming a contributing member of society. Dr. Montessori used the term normalization to distinguish one of the processes that she saw in her work with the children at San Lorenzo in Rome. This process, the process of normalization, occurs when development is proceeding normally. She used the word normalization so that people would think that these qualities belonged to all children and were not something special just for a few.

and then she speaks of the concept of deviation:

Quote:

Introduction of the concept Deviations

At the same time that Montessori was distinguishing the process of normalization she distinguished another process which she called deviations. She saw that the process of normalization and deviations is going on all of the time. It is what children are engaged in.

If you do not like the word deviations in referring to human beings, one option is to think of deviations as defenses. We are all familiar with the idea of being defensive. Another option is to think of a deviation as a detour. In Italian as in Spanish the word desviaciones refers to a detour in the road. Deviations or detours in development result from road blocks in the developmental process.

I like to think that hormic energy, or life force energy, runs through us like a crystal clear river. If the energy runs smoothly without barriers and stays within its river banks, we see normalization. If this river, this force is repressed and not allowed to flow in its normal channel, it will seek other ways to move.

The hormic energy may be damned up for a while producing an artificial passivity. Every now and then the dam will let loose a big burst of energy. The emotion that comes with that burst of energy may cause turbulence in the person's life. If energy is held in, The life force energy cannot be expressed in ways appropriate to the situation.

On the other hand if the river banks are not well defined, the water can spread too thin over the countryside. Just so, the hormic energy without any boundaries can spread out too thin and over too large an area of life. If the child has insufficient order or limits in his life then there is not enough life force to carry out anything much. The horme is dissipated.

She goes on to say

Quote:

Present-day studies and brain research point out that the first two years of life are of exceptional importance in the formation and evolution of the human being. The child embodies “a nucleus of energies and capacities” that must develop “wholesomely.” Montessori understood that “in this period, man’s positive as well as his negative qualities come into being and that the sum total of these qualities will characterize the adult.”

Adults have not understood children or adolescents, and they are, as a consequence, in continual conflict with them," Montessori wrote. "The adult must find within himself the still unknown error that prevents him from seeing the child as he is."
That last sentence, in case you missed it, is the secret. Achieve that, Maria Montessori said, and all kinds of peace will follow in the world. From the peace between parent and child will follow the peace between child and child, and man and man, and nation and nation.

http://www.michaelolaf.net/lecture_secret.html

http://www.montessori-ami.org/congre...ey/paperah.htm

edited by cynthetiq to insert quotes

lktknow · 02-21-2008, 10:24 AM

I'm going to attempt to explain the other thread I started regarding this topic.
I had started writing the thread many different times, knowing in my head, exactly the point I wanted to make. However, it all turned into a jumbled mess, that was confusing to the reader, to say the least. Plus the fact of plagiarism coming into account where the thread was concerned. I know what plagiarism means, but was unaware of the fact, the lines in which someone was quoted, had to be in quotations. I never meant to imply the lines, were my original thoughts. I had thought by my saying "She said:", and then following it, by something the person said, was enough to make it known, that it was not "me" saying it. I apologize for my ignorance as far as that is concerned, and will remember the correct way of doing it in the future.

Having said that, the point I was trying to convey in the other post, was the fact of me thinking, that the school shootings, or the shooters, I should say, are a product of the way in which our society goes about raising their children.

And I wanted to reinforce my belief with the writings of Maria Montessori, in which she states some very convincing points of view, as far as what is being done to children in the early stages of their lives. As far as them being stifled, when it comes to acting out what should be a normal part of their learning process.
I have seen it with my own daughter, when it comes to my grandson, doing things for him, that he can, and very much wants to, do for himself. But she says it is much quicker if she does it herself. I believe most parents are guilty of this, because of time, or lack of it, being an issue in everyone's life.
What they do not realize, is a very important part of that child's psyche is being damaged by not letting them do it for themselves. And it is my belief, that this damage continues throughout their childhood, to the point of having the horrible effect of growing up and acting out these stifled , frustrated feelings by becoming one of the ones who does the shootings.
I am well aware that children have horrible living conditions, and do not resort to going out and shooting people. But, I also believe that this is a large part of it.
I have been a supporter of Maria Montessori, and her method for years now. And it is my belief she was far beyond her time in solving some of society's major problems when it comes to humanity itself.

allaboutmusic · 02-21-2008, 11:03 AM

Doing something for a child all the time is short-term thinking. Adults do it because it saves them time there and then, but of course guiding them through the process of doing things for themselves gives them long-term autonomy, giving them better self-esteem, helping them make better decisions and take more responsibility.

As a classroom teacher, I think we definitely need more of such empowerment.

Ustwo · 02-21-2008, 11:20 AM

So school shootings are due to helicopter parents?

While 'over' parenting is bad, I don't think thats a root cause of school shootings.

Shauk · 02-21-2008, 11:58 AM

No, school shootings were only an issue after the columbine incident really. All of a sudden it's in the news, it's part of our societal imprint, and then the copy cat syndrome begins.

I would put money on it that if the columbine shooters never got even a WORD of news coverage, there wouldn't have been any copy cats. at least, not on a national level.

The_Jazz · 02-21-2008, 12:08 PM

We've got a new OP and the two threads have been merged together so that you can see the whole chain of thought. Have at it.

Willravel · 02-21-2008, 12:27 PM

Montessori (children shouldn't be treated as adults and should be allowed to explore their youth) + Second Step (empathy and sympathy/conflict resolution training in k-6 schools) = vastly reduced crime. It's simply true. Could it prevent all school violence and shootings? Probably not, but you absolutely must admit that they would be drastically improved.

Ustwo · 02-21-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Montessori (children shouldn't be treated as adults and should be allowed to explore their youth) + Second Step (empathy and sympathy/conflict resolution training in k-6 schools) = vastly reduced crime.

I went to Montessori and look how I turned out?

I'd be willing to bet that parents sending their children to schools like Montessori are more involved parents, and therefore you will have reduced crime.

Its rather hard to correlate this sort of thing.

The_Jazz · 02-21-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I went to Montessori and look how I turned out?

I'd be willing to bet that parents sending their children to schools like Montessori are more involved parents, and therefore you will have reduced crime.

Its rather hard to correlate this sort of thing.

Note to self: the boys will NOT be going to Rogers Park Monessori now.

The craziest of my sisters-in-law sends their kids to a Waldorff school and drives them an hour each way to get there. As I understand it, it has a similar approach to Montessori but without any structure at all. Her older son, I think, is destined to be beaten up hourly once he gets to high school. His current school encourages the behavior that's going to cause the problems.

I'm all for individuality and allowing children to discover the world on their own terms, but there comes a point where they need to have enough in common with their peers to relate to them as fellow humans, not to mentions Americans.

Is my nephew going to shoot up his school - all signs point to "no" since his parents are both very involved, but if they weren't, I would certainly be worried.

Willravel · 02-21-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I went to Montessori and look how I turned out?

I'd be willing to bet that parents sending their children to schools like Montessori are more involved parents, and therefore you will have reduced crime.

Its rather hard to correlate this sort of thing.

Ever shoot up a school? Ever murder anyone in cold blood? Did you go to college? Do you make a good income? Are you married with children who are all pretty happy? Well adjusted? We may not always agree, but you've clearly become an active and contributing member of society.

While there may not be enough data for causation with Montessori, there is absolutely data to support a strong correlation between the method and success and social development. More is actually true of the Second Step Program. I've seen the raw data from when my mom used to employ the method at elementary schools. It absolutely works and has a near perfect success rate.

They are both methods of prevention, which is key to lowering crime.

Ustwo · 02-21-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Ever shoot up a school? Ever murder anyone in cold blood? Did you go to college? Do you make a good income? Are you married with children who are all pretty happy? Well adjusted? We may not always agree, but you've clearly become an active and contributing member of society.

While there may not be enough data for causation with Montessori, there is absolutely data to support a strong correlation between the method and success and social development. More is actually true of the Second Step Program. I've seen the raw data from when my mom used to employ the method at elementary schools. It absolutely works and has a near perfect success rate.

They are both methods of prevention, which is key to lowering crime.

Neither have my later siblings who didn't go to Montessori.

Since by default parents willing to send their children to such a program will be parents interested in the outcome of their children's education and development, I don't think you can make any major claims about it.

I really don't credit my time there with any major academic or emotional success, those came much later and the old fashioned way, yelling and making me work (Thanks Mrs. George, Mom, and Dad).

abaya · 02-21-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I went to Montessori and look how I turned out?

I also went to Montessori.

Cynthetiq · 02-21-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

I also went to Montessori.

for some reason when I read Montessori I hear, Monchichi

Ustwo · 02-21-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

for some reason when I read Montessori I hear, Monchichi

Now I got that damn slogan/song in my head.

DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plan9 · 02-21-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

for some reason when I read Montessori I hear, Monchichi

DAMNIT! YouTube caters to all my horrible whims. MAKE IT STOP.

silent_jay · 02-21-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Now I got that damn slogan/song in my head.

DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Moi aussi, haven't heard the song\slogan in years, yet in my head it is stuck.

The_Jazz · 02-21-2008, 02:59 PM

/off topic

Monchichi's catch fire when they've had their stuffing removed and replaced with ladyfinger firecrackers. Just in case you were wondering.

snowy · 02-21-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

While there may not be enough data for causation with Montessori, there is absolutely data to support a strong correlation between the method and success and social development. More is actually true of the Second Step Program. I've seen the raw data from when my mom used to employ the method at elementary schools. It absolutely works and has a near perfect success rate.

They are both methods of prevention, which is key to lowering crime.

That Second Step program looks interesting. Many of the topics they cover in the preschool/kindergarten section are topics I myself have had to cover in my work with kids. Looking at the list, they cover a lot of things that most grown-ups would never think their child would need to learn, yet do. For instance, teaching a child how to calm themselves in an upsetting situation--it is essential that a child have that in their "toolbox", but unless someone teaches them how to do it, they're never going to know how. As adults, we don't realize that someone taught us these things at one point in our lives. Emotional development is a collaborative cognitive process, and I'm glad to see programs like Second Step out there, giving kids the tools they need to become fully emotionally aware--and empathetic at the same time.

I'm a big fan of Montessori and her methods, and I use many of them in my work with children. I love the idea of the teacher as guide, and love that the classroom is truly seen as a collaborative learning environment. Montessori does not patronize children; rather, it allows them to figure out for themselves all that they are capable of, with or without adult interference. In my experience, children who come out of Montessori environments are more creative and more independent. The downside of Montessori is that some children have a hard time leaving a Montessori program for a public school--the transition can be very difficult for some children, because public school is so dramatically different. I say some children because I have seen others make the transition swimmingly--so it really is an individual thing.

It should be noted that many publicly funded charter schools have opened up that use the Montessori method. I fully support this. I think it is much more in tune with what we know about child development than our current system, which is outmoded.

girldetective · 02-21-2008, 08:03 PM

I'm glad to see this thread up again.

And Owl, I'm happy to have you living in my state.

Often when I was working in the pubic schools (grades 6-8) I would remind parents of Montessori's philosophy and urge them to bring it into the home, to develop a new attitude. Sometimes it was helpful to put it into context for them by using how it would be of value to them. It bothered me a little bit that I needed to remind them. On the other hand, I was happy to have been of service. I used Montessori's methods with my children and they could not be better citizens or individuals. I love them fiercely as people. Actually, I apply her philosophy to my own life everyday as an adult.

I agree with the OP, and I like seeing education and any solution discussed rather than the sensational.

Willravel · 02-21-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namako

And Owl, I'm happy to have you living in my state.

You can't imagine the pain and emptiness of living in a state without her.

snowy · 02-21-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

You can't imagine the pain and emptiness of living in a state without her.

How sweet!

02-21-2008, 10:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
lktknow Insane Location: here&there	School shootings I'm going to attempt to explain the other thread I started regarding this topic. I had started writing the thread many different times, knowing in my head, exactly the point I wanted to make. However, it all turned into a jumbled mess, that was confusing to the reader, to say the least. Plus the fact of plagiarism coming into account where the thread was concerned. I know what plagiarism means, but was unaware of the fact, the lines in which someone was quoted, had to be in quotations. I never meant to imply the lines, were my original thoughts. I had thought by my saying "She said:", and then following it, by something the person said, was enough to make it known, that it was not "me" saying it. I apologize for my ignorance as far as that is concerned, and will remember the correct way of doing it in the future. Having said that, the point I was trying to convey in the other post, was the fact of me thinking, that the school shootings, or the shooters, I should say, are a product of the way in which our society goes about raising their children. And I wanted to reinforce my belief with the writings of Maria Montessori, in which she states some very convincing points of view, as far as what is being done to children in the early stages of their lives. As far as them being stifled, when it comes to acting out what should be a normal part of their learning process. I have seen it with my own daughter, when it comes to my grandson, doing things for him, that he can, and very much wants to, do for himself. But she says it is much quicker if she does it herself. I believe most parents are guilty of this, because of time, or lack of it, being an issue in everyone's life. What they do not realize, is a very important part of that child's psyche is being damaged by not letting them do it for themselves. And it is my belief, that this damage continues throughout their childhood, to the point of having the horrible effect of growing up and acting out these stifled , frustrated feelings by becoming one of the ones who does the shootings. I am well aware that children have horrible living conditions, and do not resort to going out and shooting people. But, I also believe that this is a large part of it. I have been a supporter of Maria Montessori, and her method for years now. And it is my belief she was far beyond her time in solving some of society's major problems when it comes to humanity itself. __________________ Never give up on something that you can’t go a day without thinking about. ~

02-21-2008, 11:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	So school shootings are due to helicopter parents? While 'over' parenting is bad, I don't think thats a root cause of school shootings. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

02-21-2008, 11:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	No, school shootings were only an issue after the columbine incident really. All of a sudden it's in the news, it's part of our societal imprint, and then the copy cat syndrome begins. I would put money on it that if the columbine shooters never got even a WORD of news coverage, there wouldn't have been any copy cats. at least, not on a national level. Last edited by Shauk; 02-21-2008 at 12:01 PM..

02-21-2008, 12:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	We've got a new OP and the two threads have been merged together so that you can see the whole chain of thought. Have at it. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

02-21-2008, 02:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	/off topic Monchichi's catch fire when they've had their stuffing removed and replaced with ladyfinger firecrackers. Just in case you were wondering. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

02-21-2008, 11:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
allaboutmusic Aurally Fixated	Doing something for a child all the time is short-term thinking. Adults do it because it saves them time there and then, but of course guiding them through the process of doing things for themselves gives them long-term autonomy, giving them better self-esteem, helping them make better decisions and take more responsibility. As a classroom teacher, I think we definitely need more of such empowerment.

02-21-2008, 12:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Montessori (children shouldn't be treated as adults and should be allowed to explore their youth) + Second Step (empathy and sympathy/conflict resolution training in k-6 schools) = vastly reduced crime. It's simply true. Could it prevent all school violence and shootings? Probably not, but you absolutely must admit that they would be drastically improved.

02-21-2008, 08:03 PM	#19 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	I'm glad to see this thread up again. And Owl, I'm happy to have you living in my state. Often when I was working in the pubic schools (grades 6-8) I would remind parents of Montessori's philosophy and urge them to bring it into the home, to develop a new attitude. Sometimes it was helpful to put it into context for them by using how it would be of value to them. It bothered me a little bit that I needed to remind them. On the other hand, I was happy to have been of service. I used Montessori's methods with my children and they could not be better citizens or individuals. I love them fiercely as people. Actually, I apply her philosophy to my own life everyday as an adult. I agree with the OP, and I like seeing education and any solution discussed rather than the sensational. __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata