Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community (https://thetfp.com/tfp/)
-   General Discussion (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/)
-   -   Requirements for a P.O. to take out his weapon (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/130858-requirements-p-o-take-out-his-weapon.html)

Painted 01-27-2008 08:15 PM

Requirements for a P.O. to take out his weapon
 
I was staying over at a friend's house overnight with him in his bedroom and me in the living room. In the morning, around 11 AM, three police officers entered the house with their pistols drawn and pointed at me. They woke me up and ordered me to put my hands on my head. They asked me if I was the only one in the house, I said no. Then two of them searched the house and got my friend and put him in the living room with me. They then searched us and found nothing. And then they put their weapons down.

It turns out a neighbor called the police on us because they thought we were burglaring the place (?). We did show up around 1 AM in my car but it was Saturday night, and the police did not come until 10 hours later. We were forced to wait half an hour before they left, after confirming that my friend owned the house.

My question is, is it legal for a police officer to point his weapon at you if you are laying on a couch sleeping? I know they thought they were dealing with burglars, but they probably scoped the house out before entering it and clearly saw just me and my friend sleeping in separate rooms. They also entered the house without my friends' permission. My car was in the driveway and by 11 AM it was fogged up and cold, obviously we had been there a long time, what kind of burglar would do that? It was basically a normal sleepover. I also have to say that waking up to three guns pointed at me and three very strict persons holding them was one of the scariest moments of my life. /rant

Fotzlid 01-27-2008 08:25 PM

as a guess, i imagine they will draw their weapons whenever they enter a building with a possible felony in progress. you may have been sleeping, but they have no way of knowing if there is a weapon near you.
as far as entering the house, they had probable cause based on the call alone.
i'm sure they figured it out pretty quick, but they have their procedures to follow. they can't leave anything to chance in those situations either.

Painted 01-27-2008 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fotzlid
as a guess, i imagine they will draw their weapons whenever they enter a building with a possible felony in progress. you may have been sleeping, but they have no way of knowing if there is a weapon near you.
as far as entering the house, they had probable cause based on the call alone.
i'm sure they figured it out pretty quick, but they have their procedures to follow. they can't leave anything to chance in those situations either.

could they really have probable cause to point a gun at someone just based on a half-assed call at 10 AM?

BogeyDope 01-27-2008 09:05 PM

They can point a gun at whomever they want. For all they know, you're awake and about to charge at them with a knife.

SSJTWIZTA 01-27-2008 10:28 PM

Yeah, they can do it. Ive been thrown to the ground and had a knee put in my back at gunpoint before, tasters and pistols drawn, and all i was doing was walking through a neighborhood. Mind you, it was a horrible, trashy trailer park, and i did have my hawk spiked and trashy clothes on.

The only thing that gets me about your story is the response time. If they scoped the area like you believed then there should clearly be no sign of breaking and entering and plus, like you said, what thief sleeps for hours on end at a place he just burgled.

surferlove007 01-27-2008 10:52 PM

What about that thing called a warrant? Or does probable cause override that? I think a phone-call isn't a reason to bust into someones house. Perhaps get brinks...they'll call you when someone goes into your house, that or when the alarm goes off.

And 10 hours later? Reminds of me of that story of the guy's house who got burgled and the guy was on the phone with the 911 Operator and said never mind, I got it. Apparently he shot the guy in the leg so he couldn't get away. Brinks...we always had cops out there in less than 10 minutes if the alarm went off. (It happened a few times with cat incidents...not cat bunglers.)

Sorry that happened to you...but it does kind of suck about P.Os that they can pretty much do what they please.

ObieX 01-27-2008 11:12 PM

If i were you i would go over to the neighbor and tell them the crap they put you through.. but thats just me. I'm sure they had good intentions but sometimes people need to mind their own fucking business. Their business should end where your property line begins.

I once had something similar happen to me because i parked my car facing the wrong way on the side of the road once for maybe a few hours. (my mother needed me to move the car out of the way so she could get out and i just backed it into the open spot right in front of my house) The police then entered and searched my house (why?). After the police left i asked the neighbor (who was watching the spectacle with other neighbors on their front lawns) why he did it and he said "well how do i know the car isn't stolen!?" My response being "Because you see it parked in my fucking driveway every day asshole!" That was a fun day.

The very next day i saw my neighbor park his car across the sidewalk in front of his house.. i could have been a dick and called the cops on him. I just gave him a smile and continued on into my house.

One good thing did come out of the event. As i was pulling my car into my driveway after about 2 hours of the cops rummaging through my house they yelled at *me* because someone was speeding up the hill near my house and had to slow down as i was pulling the car in. I immediately informed them that the hill has the word "SLOW" in giant letters painted on it with accompanying signage for a reason and that people speed up the hill constantly. Within about two days there was a radar sign posted on the hill with the speed limit clearly marked and a dial that registered cars' speed as they approached. It was gone after a few days but at least it was something.

blahblah454 01-27-2008 11:46 PM

I am pretty sure they drew the weapons only after they saw you sleeping. You know, some guy gets tired half way through the burglary and decides to take a nap....

/sarcasm

Plan9 01-28-2008 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethal Weapon
Roger Murtaugh: Okay, clown, no bullshit! You wanna kill yourself?
Martin Riggs: Oh, for Chriss-...
Roger Murtaugh: Shut up! Yes or no - you wanna die?
Martin Riggs: Oh, I got the job done! What the hell do you want?
Roger Murtaugh: JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION!
Martin Riggs: Well, what do you wanna hear, man? Do you wanna hear that sometimes I think about eatin' a bullet? Huh? Well, I do! I even got a special bullet for the occasion with a hollow point, look! Make sure it blows the back of my goddamned head out and do the job right! Every single day I wake up and I think of a reason not to do it! Every single day! You know why I don't do it? This is gonna make you laugh! You know why I don't do it? The job! Doin' the job! Now that's the reason!

...

Seriously? Police officers use restraints like handcuffs to neutralize arrest and potential custody situations. It keeps them safe (you're less of a threat) and it keeps you safe (you're less of a target). This case? I don't think they shouldn't have used that kind of escalation of force (handgun in your face) unless you presented a threat or they had other information. A calm voice usually does wonders. Once cuffed... everybody is a lot less nervous.

The only viable excuse to draw a weapon and point it at someone is threat of imminent danger. Weapons are not passive defensive implements like body armor or vests. Plus, you don't shoot fleeing suspects (legally) and only use violence against violence in an escalation-of-force matrix they brainwash into ya. Most departments don't want your piece leaving the leather unless you're going to use it. Militant cops pointing big scary handguns at people is really, really bad PR.

Fotzlid 01-28-2008 06:34 AM

Quote:

This case? I don't think they shouldn't have used that kind of escalation of force (handgun in your face) unless you presented a threat or they had other information.
wasn't an escalation. it was a show of force. based on the call, the people in the house were potential threats that had to be controlled quickly.
i'm not a cop (i've met and gotten to know quite a few at work) but it sounded like they went by the book on this case.

Push-Pull 01-28-2008 06:41 AM

Perhaps a call to the Chief of Police in your area asking him to please educate you on the policies and procedures in a case like this would be in order? I imagine that he would like to hear about it if officers went outside the P&P.

I can understand how you feel. Waking up with a gun in your face, regardless of who is brandishing it, can make for a VERY bad day.....

Slims 01-28-2008 10:38 AM

It was, IMHO, entirely appropriate for the officers to have weapons drawn, as they were in a high risk situation.

However, they had absolutely no business pointing their weapons at you.

There is a difference between having a weapon drawn and tucked up to the chest at the ready, and having a weapon extended and pointed at you. Are you sure that they were actually no shit drawing down on you? or did they possibly just have their weapons at the ready?

They should have had enough control over their weapons to not accidentally point them at you (or they had no business carrying any). So if they did I think it is safe to assume they did so deliberately, which was uncalled for.

I don't know wether they actually broke the law, but even if they did, remember that they were trying to keep your buddy from getting ripped off.

Punk.of.Ages 01-28-2008 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA
Yeah, they can do it. Ive been thrown to the ground and had a knee put in my back at gunpoint before, tasters and pistols drawn, and all i was doing was walking through a neighborhood. Mind you, it was a horrible, trashy trailer park, and i did have my hawk spiked and trashy clothes on.

I can't even count how many times my friends have been pulled over for the dumbest things because of the mohawked punk kid in their passenger seat (me).

Basically the cops can do whatever they want as long as they can say something was out of line. Waking somebody up with a pistol 10 hours after a burglary call makes no sense at all, but the call gives them the ability to justify it.

Lasereth 01-28-2008 11:52 AM

How do you know the call didn't come in when the police came?

The police were doing their job. Dispatch says a burglary is in progress from a witness so the cops come and check it out as if a burglary is in progress. Would a normal burglary in progress yield their weapons drawn? You better believe it. It's easy to say the cops overreacted and that you were mistreated, but look at it on the cops side: they've been told that a WITNESS has seen a burglary going down in that house and to check it out. They don't know you or your friend or who lives there. All they know is someone believes a burglary is going on and they have to take precautions or something can go majorly wrong.

They were not out of line in the least bit.

Painted 01-28-2008 01:53 PM

The neighbor called the police at about 10:30, but by then we had been sleeping for 8 hours and had nary a light on. If the neighbor or police had been watching the house, they'd only see two guys sleeping, one of them being the owner of the house!

It just pisses me off because we weren't doing ANYTHING wrong. We weren't having a party, drinking or making a lot of noise. We looked settled in, keys and mail on the kitchen counter, a few dishes on the coffee table, two cars in the driveway, etc. How could any of this possibly be seen as a "burglary in progress"?

Jinn 01-28-2008 02:47 PM

In this thread ONLY, I agree with dksuddeth when he arrives to reply.

Willravel 01-28-2008 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painted
My question is, is it legal for a police officer to point his weapon at you if you are laying on a couch sleeping?

It's hyperdefensive, yes, but assuming they announced themselves before entering (when you were asleep), it's not illegal. I'm sure there have been times when someone sleeping on a couch has become extremely dangerous to a police officer very quickly upon waking.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Painted
My car was in the driveway and by 11 AM it was fogged up and cold, obviously we had been there a long time, what kind of burglar would do that?

There used to be a show on Fox called America's Dumbest Criminals. The show was stupid, but so are a lot of criminals.

Toaster126 01-28-2008 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painted
It just pisses me off because we weren't doing ANYTHING wrong.

Welcome to life for a lot of people. Sometimes that just doesn't matter as much as it should.

Hektore 01-28-2008 04:38 PM

Well, at first I was going to say that they shouldn't have come into your house because a phone call by a neighbor shouldn't be enough to give probable cause and go barging in guns drawn. But, when I read your post a second time I took notice that it was 11 am when they got there, meaning in the middle of the afternoon with two cars there - nobody answered the door. Even without sign of forced entry that would lend some credibility to the call, I suppose enough to merit entry. All in all, I don't see how they did anything wrong.

As an aside: it has become somewhat common for homeless people around here to break into unoccupied houses/cars/sheds for a slightly warmer place to sleep. Thus, just because you aren't ransacking the place doesn't mean you are supposed to be there.

Plan9 01-28-2008 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai
In this thread ONLY, I agree with dksuddeth when he arrives to reply.

Man, I'd so take advantage of this blank check if I were him.

dksuddeth 01-29-2008 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai
In this thread ONLY, I agree with dksuddeth when he arrives to reply.

I hope I don't disapoint you then. :thumbsup:

when responding to a criminal complaint where the perpetrators are considered to still be in the vicinity, the police are authorized to draw weapons. This is policy for their safety on 'controlling' a scene.

I do say that the actions of the neighbor are extremely suspect in to why he would call the police for this if he knew who the car belonged to.

All in all, I have to side with the LEOs on this one. I would have done the same thing were it me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin
Man, I'd so take advantage of this blank check if I were him.

and I sure as hell wanted to. :p


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360