fish_oinc

I found this posted els ware I though it was worthy of passing along

funydjane

This is worthy of very little.

MexicanOnABike

not really funny but: I agree. I'm sick of the african deal. to me, it's black people. and black is VERY understandable. what would you call someone who imigrates from SOUTH africa into america. he's white so is he still an african american? it's retarded.

if you were to go to europe, what would you call the black people there? african european? bleh...

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Jenny_Lyte

While I do not particularly like the term African-American, I find that whole post insulting and ignorant. It suggests that Black Americans should not embrace their African ancestry. Imagine the sad state of this nation if no one brought their ways and ideals of the old world across the sea with them. No St. Patrick's Day celebrations. No foreign cuisine. No education on the way other people live. No understanding, and ultimately, no tolerance.

The post singles out Blacks and Mexican-Americans. Apparently it is still okay for all the German-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Franco-Americans, etc. to wear their nationality on their sleeves--but people of color? F**k 'em.

Yeah, sorry. All this thread has done is piss me off.

Charlatan

I completely agree with this sentiment.

There is a decidedly racist element to the OP.

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allaboutmusic

Really?

Jenny_Lyte

Um...no.

Jinn

This is not humor, its a pre-pubescent rant turned xenophobic.

Heaven forbid we should celebrate diversity.

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genuinegirly

Just because people live in the united states doesn't mean they should deny their heritage.

This wasn't funny.

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Punk.of.Ages

Ha. There ain't no idiots here. Not in America.

/end my missing of the point.

This sounds like something I would have written when I was 13 (had I been an ignorant racist.)

It'd make a nice Myspace bulletin. Ha

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Shauk

well truth be told, the only way racism will stop is when people stop trying to differentiate themselves from eachother by thier heritage.

I work with a black male and he's american as anyone I know. but if for a second he stepped off on playing the race card for any excuse or argument, he'd lose his validity in my eyes.

I think thats all it is, my eyes glaze over anymore when I hear people use race as a platform for any sort of staging point to express ideas.

Punk.of.Ages

I completely agree, but the argument presented by the article in the OP is very immaturely put together. It sounds like an angry teenager who doesn't quite know what he's angry about.

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Jenny_Lyte

While there is some truth to that, it's also what makes the United States a great country. I think it's unfair to say that the only way to stop racism is to stop diferentiating ourselves from other people when it would make much more sense to end racism by stopping the refusal to embrace the cultures of our neighbors.

Baraka_Guru

Isn't this like saying you're either Caucasian or American?

"If you want to be Caucasian, then you need to go back to Europe....or whatevs...."

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ratbastid

The Caucasus Mountains, actually, on the border of Georgia and Russia.

Seriously, this is one of the most offensive things I've ever read on TFP. Pray God the majority of America doesn't feel this way.

Nice tie-in to a slam on Obama, by the way. Did the Hillary campaign write this?

The_Jazz

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Jenny_Lyte

But the original post was not written by the guy posted it, right? So, the perpetrators are not even on this board, so I don't think their should be any name calling.

Tully Mars

Alright! It's St. Patrick's Day lets all have a parade and celebrate the Irish portion of our collective history.

Umm, now it's what? Kwanzaa! Screw that! That's for them people what don't look like me. (Do I hear Cletus?)

Yeah the OP smacks of Xenophobia.

I do find irony in:

it's time you BLACK AMERICANS GOT OVER IT! Now go fight the illegal immigrants

Yes, descendants of people brought to this country completely against your will, get off your collective asses and stop people willingly trying to come here.

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JumpinJesus

Don't we typically post the link in these threads so we can check out the site for ourselves?

From what site did this come?

And could I ask you to clarify what you mean by worthy?

Worthy of discussion, worthy of attention, worthy of our time to read?

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Fotzlid

from now on, i would like to be refered to as a Polish-Portuguese-Scottish-French Canadian-Yugoslavian-Native American-American.
and if the GF and I ever have kids, you can insert Philippino into that for them.

why do people find the need to hypenate their ancestry like that?
i don't get it.
maybe its because i'm a mutt and dont relate to one cultual sub-group.
the way i see it, everyone born in this country is an American. period. regardless of their ancestry.

Willravel

African (the homeland of ancestors) American (current home). I'm German-American. I used to date a gorgeous woman who was Filipino-American. One of my best friends is Indian-American (not Native-American).

It's a perfectly reasonable way to identify someone's lineage and current status.

BTW, most of my friends who are "African-American" feel that "black" is perfectly fine so far is separating people by skin pigmentation.

Tully Mars

Well the Clark County WA GOP had a lot of the misinformation mentioned (ya know, lies) regarding Obama posted on their web page recently, so it could have come from them. Or it could have come from the Hillary camp.

My guess is whomever it came from would prefer it not lead back to them. Unless it's just some moron parroting the noise that comes out of his radio when tuned to the AM dial.

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Baraka_Guru

For anyone who's interested, the most correct setting of the term is "African American" (no hyphen). It is argued that this group would prefer not to have a "hyphenated identity." They identify themselves with their Africanness and with their Americanness, but they do not see it as a "blended" or "bound" identity as though it had some kind of haunting relevance to their ancestors' bondship in slavery. There are many, for example, who still strongly support the idea of the Black Diaspora, yet identify strongly with their American culture because that is their world from birth. Perhaps they view this as an essential dualism. Many, I'm sure, are indifferent to the hyphen, but there are cultural theorists and critics who are concerned about something that might seem so little. (-)

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Fotzlid

i just find the whole hyphenated thing completely rediculous. if one is a naturalized citizen, then yeah, throw the hyphen in there. otherwise i see it as either an attempt to create a sub-grouping for special consideration or as a statement that a particular culture is superior to the one someone grew up in.

granted, this may very well be because i am a tad bit older than you and i didnt grow up with these sub-groupings.

edit: Baraka_Guru - thanks for the clairification.

Willravel

I was between 9 and 17 during the Clinton Administration, so yes I suspect that had something to do with it.

The "African-American" label has been around for a while (remember "Afro-American in the 70s and 80s?), but was only used as a term that was intended to be the least offensive in the early to mid 90s. Unfortunately, according to my learned black friends, this was taken by the black community as coddling. Many black people find the idea of such a term overkill and offensive because of that.

This is why I mention that generally the most correct term for 2008 is simply "black".

Baraka_Guru

I think this is the general consensus in Canada, too. In my previous post, I was speaking exclusively about the term "African American." But in the discourse on the issues we speak of, I think the most common expression would be that this is about "being Black."

Note the capitalization. This is another little detail. Some use "black," others use "Black."

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

I wonder if there's any rule to the capitalization. Normally capitalization is used for beginnings of sentences, proper nouns, a pronoun used to describe self (I), and titles (such as Mr.). I don't see the label of "black" fitting any of those. Unless it's an exception, like "God", that is made by members of the group that uses the term?

Fotzlid

i thought you were older than that. guess "tad" was a bit short. more like "a lot".

Baraka_Guru

Capitalization can be used for distinction too. For example, "black" is also a colour (skin tone aside), while "Black" refers to a culture or people of African descent.

EDIT: Oh, it is also capitalized like a proper noun, along the same lines as Caucasian or Asian. So, if we were to list these terms, it would look like this:

• Caucasian
• Asian
• Latin American
• Middle Eastern
• Black

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

If by "a lot" you mean that you were almost old enough to drink when I was born, then yup.

Ah, then the cultural name, which would be a pronoun.

Sion

I'm still trying to understand why we need to celebrate diversity. Is diversity, in and of itself, a quality that needs to be celebrated or encouraged? Does a high level of diversity in a population guarantee anything other than the fact that not everyone will look the same?

Understand that I'm not against diversity, just that I don't see it as a quality that needs to be celebrated or encouraged. I don't give a shit what color/race/ethnicity a person is, nor do I care what religion or sexual orientation a person is. You are either good people or you are not.

Why celebrate and encourage diversity? Why not celebrate and encourage things that truly matter, like good citizenship and ethics and morality?

Given the choice between A) a town in which everyone is the same race/color/whatever, but they are all good, upstanding citizens; and B) a town with a high level of diversity and low level of morality, I'll take the former every time. Diversity for the sake of diversity is pointless.

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MexicanOnABike

Refering to my previous post: I said Negro was as acceptable as Black, well someone said no and now i see why. In my town and as far as I can see, it's still a correct word to use

"racial term referring to people who have skin that has high melanin content, referring to persons of African ethnic origin. Prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s, the appellation was accepted as a normal neutral formal term both by those of African descent as well as non-African blacks. Now it is considered by many an ethnic slur."

Where as the other N word is not for obvious reasons. Resume discussion.

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Baraka_Guru

I agree with you, but I don't think many would argue against us.

But I don't think we celebrate diversity for its own sake; instead, we celebrate the freedom of our own identities. There was a long and dark period in American history where being Black meant being less than human. Things have come a long way, but there is still a way to go. Blacks should celebrate their identity because they have overcome much and still have a lot of work overcoming the struggles they face on the basis of their inescapable being.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Fotzlid

almost. lol. drinking age was 18 back then. i was already in the bars and clubs for 4 years before you were born.

all this talk of capitalization and proper phrasing...i think i'll just make up a term and lump everyone into it whether they like it or not.

since fotzlid is a meaningless term, maybe i'll use that instead.

you're all fotzlids.

Sion

I have a problem with the work Black as a descriptive of people who are dark skinned. Why, you ask?

because I've never met or seen, in my 40+ years on this planet, a single black person. I have met, on the other hand, some VERY, VERY dark brown people.

I think we should use the more accurate term: Brown.

And for "whites" we should use the term Beige.

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Plan9

This thread makes me sad.

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Baraka_Guru

All good points, but I don't think Brown would work because some Asian people refer to themselves this way.

And if you want to get that specific, then "Americans" will need to stop referring to themselves as such, given the differences between North, South, and Central America. So.... "Americans" should have to start referring to themselves as "United-State Americans" or "Mid-North Americans" or "Lower North Americans" or something..... any other suggestions?

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Jenny_Lyte

The term Black does not bother me. No, I am not Black, but White people aren't exactly White. I mean, African American screams my country of ancestral origin and my country of my origin. And I fail to see how that is relevant. Besides, you can be Black and not be African American and you can be African American and not be black.

Sun Tzu

Am i missing something or was there something interesting "found-on-the-net" related to thread?

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JumpinJesus

I wonder if black people sit around and have long, drawn-out discussions regarding what to call white people and try to sound enlightened while doing it.

"Caucasian"
"Well, now, I wouldn't go so far as to say Caucasian per se, seeing as how Caucasian refers strictly to those indigenous to the Caucus Mountains of Eastern Europe. My white friends say it's okay to call them white. But Euro-American is too ethno-centric for me."
"What's wrong with cracker? That's what we call them in my town."
"Well, crackers are white, but I think that is considered derogatory to them. I wouldn't want to go into an all-white neighborhood and call some Honky 'cracker'. Might go postal on you, y'know?"
"But where else are white people from?"
"I don't think that's an appropriate question to ask."
"So, what are we supposed to call them, then?"
"I think 'white' is what they prefer."

How silly.

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