UKking

In 1999, Mena Suvari, the quintessential American Beauty, captivated men and generated millions of box office dollars with this pose:




Nine years later, a provocative Brazilian ad campaign for Fit Light Yogurt uses that image to drive home a controversial point: The bigger you are, the less attractive you are:


The tagline for this ad reads: "Forget about it. Men's preference will never change. Fit Light Yogurt."

Two more:



And here's the Marilyn Monroe one:



The tagline for both ads reads: "Forget about it. Men's preference will never change. Fit Light Yogurt."



Man, those are some fucked up ads. The power of marketing and pop culture. Honestly, I doubt that the popular preference favouring slim women is innate; I think this is something that is taught and learned. But it's so deeply ingrained into our culture now that it might as well be written in stone.

What's even weirder to me, though: In the supposedly instinctive selection processes we go through in determining how sexually attractive a person is, we factor in their potential health. A healthier mate is more likely to raise a successfully reproducing offspring. And nowadays, if you imagine a slim woman in some spandex & running gear versus an overweight woman in the same outfit, which do you label as healthier? The slim woman. BUT, in reality, does the larger woman's weight affect her ability to raise successfully reproducing offspring? Not really. Not today anyways. Well, how about back in the stone age? I'm no expert, but I doubt it.

Anyways my point is that I doubt the slim preference is biological, or instinctive or anything like that. I think it's marketing. Very old marketing, too, whose funky origin has been lost in time, and now it's just some self-perpetuating reality of the unstoppable economy and media in a crazy Chicken-And-The-Egg relationship.

Imagining my preferences were flipped around is like imagining a colour that doesn't exist. Does not compute. So where does that leave me as a guy who blatantly prefers slim women, knowing that there's no good reason for it? Well, for one, the admission makes me feel guilty. It inflicts emotional turmoil on countless women. But the guilt is followed by resentment towards the resistance of the slim preference, since it is 'the source' of that annoying pang of guilt.
A lot of help that is, huh?

This topic reminds me of religion for some reason.

Lasereth

I can't really add much but my own experiences:

I've always preferred thicker girls, sorta like the first one you posted. Up until about a year ago I didn't even find thin girls attractive. That changed though and now I find girls of all sizes attractive. I think it might have to do with your own body. I'm a big guy and I've always found bigger girls as attractive (if not more attactive) than skinny girls in most cases.

But yes those ads are fucked up.

highthief

To hell with that - I like slim girls as well, and damned if I'll be made to feel guilty about it by Oprah.

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ShaniFaye

eh...everyone has their own preference....we are forever going to be blasted from the "media" outlets that all men want skinny women.....There are a million porn sites out there that say thats not the case....There is a man sitting on my couch that shows me everyday that is not the case.

Like what you like and dont feel guilty about it, just dont be one of those people thats puts people of a differing opinion down and you'll be fine

(for the record, I really cant get all that excited about slim men...with one or two exceptions)

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Willravel

Overweight people are generally considered to be less attractive in Western culture. Since when is this news? The origin is being healthy. If you're 5'5" and 330 lbs., you're likely to get diabetes and heart problems. If mommy dies when I'm 8 from a cardiac arrest, then natural selection has failed. Not only that, but the behavioral patterns get passed on an little Jimmy ends up being fat too... you can see how this makes sense.

If you've experienced or are experiencing emotional turmoil, then don't eat to make yourself feel better. Having lost 80 pounds myself, I can tell you that life really is better when you're thin. I can tie my shoes without having to come up for air, and yes I can get a phone number or two from nice young ladies. If I was 270 lbs., that wouldn't be the case.

The sexual preference thing is instinctive and intuitive. If there's famine, you pick the fat person. If there's an abundance of food and people are getting sick from excess, you pick the thin person.

ShaniFaye

how do you know that? Dave is not a small man and he has girls all over him anytime we go out....or anytime he's over seas working.....lol good thing Im not at all a jealous woman

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Manic_Skafe

Those ads most certainly are fucked up.

It's incredible how we can't quite feel comfortable enough buying something unless it shames and degrades us enough into wondering how the hell we ever got by without it. I wish this sort of advertising didn't work so well.

And I really do wish that I could tell every large woman I meet that she too is beautiful and only becomes that much more sexy when she owns who she is rather than being ashamed of it...but I'd sooner get arrested than boost anyone's self esteem.

...

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

snowy

My best friend LOVES big guys. I'll have to remember to show her some pictures of Dave in his kilt. She'll enjoy it She actually got excited when her boyfriend gained weight and got a belly. Now she's got him lifting weights to get him bigger in a healthier way.

And let me say, as someone who has been everywhere in between 145 and 190--I have had no problems getting guys at any point along that spectrum. People like what they like. Some guys like bigger girls. Popular media would have us believe otherwise, but I don't buy it.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

basspervert

I think the preference for thin is completely marketing. However, the overwhelming amount of 'big' people (me being one) is a historically recent event. Before the overabundance and availability of processed and sugar laden food, the human population was thinner. We had to work harder and eat better because that was the way of life. I believe that there is an instinct towards healthy mates, but the stark contrast between thick and thin has become greater in the last 100 years.

Willravel

I was 270 lbs. I had to actively seek out women with the charm up to 100%. Then I got numbers, but it took quite a bit. Not to toot my horn, but when you're 185 with low body fat and you exercise a lot, at least in my case, I get digits without effort. I've even got winks from a few of the magnificently lovely ladies right here on TFP (for which I'm deeply honored).

People like to judge books by their covers. It's easier, and often it's not entirely off about the inside of the book.

I'm not judging anyone, btw. You and Dave are wonderful people and I'd count myself lucky to be friends with you guys. I'm just describing what I've experienced.

Martian

This and what Shanifaye said are the two key points, I reckon. Every man (and woman, for that matter) has their preference. Blonde, brunette, fat, thin, light skin, dark skin.. whatever works for you is what works for you. I think butter is the ruination of a good ham and cheese sandwich, but most of my family won't eat one without.

Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder, and if you want to get noticed you have to stand up and be noticeable. Fuck any person or advert or anything else that says otherwise.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Willravel

Pssh... that's cause you're hot either way.

blahblah454

As stated above its pretty much all personal preference. For me I think if you are overweight that can still be sexy, but if you are overweight and every time I see you you are gorging on candy that is not attractive.

I don't find skinny people very attractive, I am not calling them ugly, they just need a little more meat on the bones for me.

I am skinny, I hate it, I hate looking at myself. I am 6" and only weight 150 at the moment (down from 170 before I started school). I hope to gain it back and until I do I am going to hate it every time I see myself.

ShaniFaye

not to get off topic....but I will....who puts butter on a ham and cheese? (unless of course you're making grilled ham/cheese) I've never heard of that lol

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Martian

Most of my family. I think it originated with my grandfather. Personally I think it's vile, but others like it and that's their call. Which was sort of my point.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

PonyPotato

I prefer athletic bodies. I've dated one guy who was overweight, but he was still damn athletic with the chub on top. I have family members who are pretty overweight (and suffer from related health conditions), but luckily none of them are in the "obese" category (yet, anyway). Super skinny is just as unattractive (evolutionarily) as an athletic body when it comes to health conditions.. women who do not have enough body fat are not as fertile as those with adequate body fat to support childbearing.

I have always been on the slimmer side, and I am happy with my body as is, even though I'd love to improve my strength, stamina, and muscle tone. I won't date a man who can't keep up with me, and I won't date a man who wants me to be bigger. I have my preferences, men can have theirs. It's always possible to find a match in preferences AND personality, though encouragement to take care of yourself should not be taken negatively (as long as it is positive, of course).

I do agree that those commercials are pretty screwed up.. women support the Dove commercials over here because they show realistic shapes and sizes of various women (from the very skinny to the very overweight) and the ads contain positive messages. Those Brazilian ads are totally elitist and negative, it's difficult to figure out how to respond to them.

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"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

snowy

See...I love guys who are that skinny. Rawr.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

PonyPotato

Bruises from their hip bones CAN be pretty exciting, huh?

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

snowy

Oh, someone else knows that pleasure, too?

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

PonyPotato

Yes.. and I like poking the bruises afterward to remind myself of where I got them. Yum!

/ends thread hijacking here..

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

Miss Mango

I do agree that big women still get labeled as sexually unappealing because of their size and I think it is true that overweight people at least in the U.S. are treated like 2nd class citizens.

Personally when I decided to lose some weight it was partly due to health reasons, but ultimately I didnt feel sexy to myself any longer. If you dont feel sexy to yourself then you dont have that confidence that attracts people. I wanted to have a better self-image of myself and I wanted to get laid. Pure and simple!

But, on the other hand I do find larger women attractive and I think theres quite a few men out there that would agree. Especially men of color. Ultimately I think its the media that is upholding this negative stereotype. Big women can be and are sexy.

All in all, this is a crappy campaign because I dont think it proves that larger women are unappealing if that is what they are trying to do.

If they had been effective in their image I think I would still detest the negative marketing campaign.

Ourcrazymodern?

Advertising doesn't make us.
Vice versa.

If we could believe (like children) we might perceive (like we can).

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

genuinegirly

I see nothing unattractive about the women in that advertising campaign. I don't understand it. And the first one with the rose petals - if you put the same proportion of rose petals on as you did for the teenager, it wouldn't look odd at all.

Being physically healthy is primarily important. I often wonder if my mother would have the same difficulties with her knees or my cousin with her ankle, if they were more fit. But their generation, their peer group, their eating habits... whatever it was, they weren't able to live fit.

I think fitness has do do with looking younger and more fertile, perhaps... and in that sense healthy people are more attractive.

Often, I think that if a person believes they're beautiful, they will become so. If nothing more than because they're driven by the desire.

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Plan9

I call BS on that last photo in the OP.

Marilyn Monroe was not an anorexic androg by any means.

She was a rather full-figured woman.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

roachboy

it doesn't matter what you are. it matters what you think you are.
i've been big and i've been less big and that's all i have figured out.
well that and there's almost no degree of flirtation or attraction that can't be erased by an adequately thick layer of obliviousness.
ok so there's two things.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Fotzlid

the current media obsession with skinny girls is temporary at best. each age and culture has had different ideas on what is beauty. the ancient chinese thought bound feet were sexy. women that are considered "chunky" today were very sexy in the middle ages as a fuller figure denoted wealth. hollywood stars of the 40's and 50's would be considered "full figured" today.
the pendulum started swinging the ultra-skinny way when Twiggy became a fashion model sensation in the 60's.
today, when i walk through the mall, i see girls that i would consider "heavy" wearing skin tight and revealing clothing that attracts the attention of teen boys. the pendulm is swinging the other way. it'll probably take the advertisers awhile to catch up, but they will.

Plan9

Turns out there isn't anything sexy about a woman that can't run up three flights of stairs without dying.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Fotzlid

...

oops...wrong thread...

ametc

I believe the majority or people prefer thin, fit looking mates, but ultimately looks don't matter as much as we act like it does. If a mate is supposed to be the one who completes us, then probably our preference of a mate has the qualities we wish we had ourselves. But, this is just my take on it.

From experience, being thick isn't as different as being thin when it comes to being able to get men. Being thin, I got more glances my way, but now I'm thicker and I've found that more men approach me-- probably I look more approachable? Being thinner felt better and I could be on top during sex a lot longer (but I still couldn't run a mile for shit). Being morbidly obese hinders one from doing all the things one could do if one were thinner and this is what we really find unattractive about being fat. If people could be fat and climb three flights of stairs without losing their breath, then I don't think being fat would ever be an issue.

These ads are dumb and if I saw them in a magazine, I wouldn't want to buy their product just from their ad alone. They should definitely change the focus of their ads.

Atreides88

Note that people did not live a sedentary lifestyle, nor were there as many fatasses during the stone age as there are now. If we all had to hunt for our food, we would be in better shape. What the woman jogging in spandex represents is healthy. I highly doubt that the plus-size model in those ads is at her healthy weight, nor do I believe that our sexual preferences are solely based on what society deems "right."

The caveat to the attraction of slim women is naturally bigger women. Women who's frame is larger usually have wider hips, and there's a reason they're called child-bearing hips. That should be naturally sexually attractive, as our minds and instincts naturally lean towards larger women, but that usually means women who are larger-framed, not fatter. I don't think I need to explain the health risks that excess fat stores pose.

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"There is no need to suppose that human beings differ very much one from another: but it is true that the ones who come out on top are the ones who have been trained in the hardest school." -- Thucydides

Reese

I don't have anything to add other than The American beauty chubby pic was kinda hot. The Basic instinct one was a little unflattering as that dress is about 5 sizes to small for her.

I know I'm a product of my enviroment, Hell, everything I like can probably be traced back to something someone I looked up to liked. There's no reason to feel guilty because you prefer slim women. People used to like fat women and men because it usually meant wealth, now they like skinny women because they think it means health. The aren't completely conscious choices, maybe just survival instincts.

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“It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

Slims

Fat women are not attractive (to most men). It is not a 'learned' bias, they just aren't attractive. Likewise, women who truly appear to be starving to death are not attractive either.

I will however add that there is certainly a learned bias against fat people. If you don't have enough self control to push yourself away from the table, how can I rely on you to show discipline in any aspect of life? If you neglect your single most important asset, how can an employer trust you to protect his?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

Plan9

Hey, now... don't get all Darwin. Dr. Phil says that hurts self-esteem... which is more important than physical fitness... which would lead to... self-esteem.

OH, did you see how that works!?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ustwo

With the current size 'deflation' her size 12 is estimated to be a todays size 6.

She wasn't stupid thin, but she wasn't in any way 'fat'.

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Plan9

"You're not doing it right!" Lemme put it this way: She was "normal" enough that she wouldn't have gotten a modeling job these days.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ustwo

Waist to hip ratio is very important, and belly fat screws that up.

Despite claims to the contrary based on works such as Rubins, (who painted all extremes in body form, from over muscled to obese to rail thin), 'fat' was never in in the western world. Look at the works of ancient Greece, or China, or India and see that there are universal proportions involved. They are generally a bit heavier than now but none of those women in the OP would qualify.

Of course just because 'in general' certain body types are more attractive, that doesn't mean you can't find subgroups that prefer much heavier or thinner or whatever.

As long as its healthy and the person involved is happy who cares.

I'm not so sure its attracting the attention of teen boys in 'that way'. A lot of girls do not 'dress' to make them look their best. Nothing like a bare midriff with a big old fat roll hanging out of on a 14+ year old (I've seen that several times unfortunately). That and the pseduogoth chicks in front of hot topic stuffed into clothes a few sizes to small for them. Just because some are doing it doesn't make it a real trend.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Plan9

"If you don't have the body... don't do the clothes."

I don't have 20"+ biceps... I avoid wear sleeveless shirts in public. I'd look silly.

Fat girls squeezing into too-tight clothes... usually a big case of denial.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ustwo

You sure about that?

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Plan9

Damnit, you're going to make me fire up Paint Shop Pro at this hour?

...

Think of 10 popular idealized "Barbie Doll" women on TeeVee. Compare.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

surferlove007

Damn straight, she was a size 10! (something hollywood would consider obese today) She was thick and oozing with sexuality according to my dad.

I think women need a happy medium.
I actually think that show How to Look Good Naked for women with that Carson guy is a great eye opener for women who are insecure about themselves. I think it's really nice they're putting something like that on TV for people to see and hopefully pull their eyes off how perfect so and sos body is. My moms really self conscious about how she looks and she's curvy. 42DDs I think...unfortunately not too good for her back but you see what I mean. Curves are good in different ways.

Being healthy is the goal for me. I worry about not being a size 0 at times but I realize it's stupid to try to adapt to something impossible. I'm taller so I need more meat anyway.