Omaha Shootings - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

genuinegirly · 12-06-2007, 08:52 AM

Just saw the news story on CNBC this morning, and thought I'd check CNN to get the details. Here's the word:

Quote:

Chief: Shooter cased store, came back with AK-47
Story Highlights
NEW: Police chief: Shooter entered store twice, second time with AK-47

NEW: Six victims were store employees, two were customers

Gunman showed rifle to landlord night before mall rampage

Panicked holiday shoppers flee for cover; "I was scared to death," witness says

OMAHA, Nebraska (CNN) -- The man who killed eight people and then himself at a Nebraska mall Wednesday came into the store and looked around before leaving and returning with an assault rifle, Omaha's police chief said Thursday.

Mall security officers noticed Robert A. Hawkins, 19, of Bellevue, Nebraska, briefly enter the Von Maur department store at Omaha's Westroads Mall, Chief Thomas Warren said.

Hawkins left the store and returned six minutes later concealing something -- presumably the AK-47 assault rifle used in the rampage -- under a hooded sweatshirt, Warren said.

Hawkins turned right, took an elevator to the third floor and immediately started shooting in the store's customer service area, Warren said.

Six store employees and two customers were fatally wounded before Hawkins turned the gun on himself, the chief said. The five women and three men who died ranged in age from 24 to 66, he said.

Five other people were injured, and two of them were in critical condition, hospital officials said.

Nebraska Gov. Dave Heineman ordered that flags throughout the state be lowered to half-staff through Sunday.

Warren said Hawkins apparently chose his victims randomly and spoke little or not at all while firing about 30 rounds.

The shootings sent panicked holiday shoppers fleeing for cover.

"It was just so loud, and then it was silence," said witness Jennifer Kramer, who hid behind a clothing rack. "I was scared to death he'd be walking around looking for someone else."

Debora Maruca Kovac, Hawkins' landlord, said she found a suicide note after getting a phone call from Hawkins about 1 p.m., just minutes before the shootings.

"He basically said how sorry he was for everything," Maruca Kovac said of the note. "He didn't want to be a burden to people and that he was a piece of s--- all of his life and that now he'd be famous."

She said Hawkins was a friend of her sons and "reminded me of a pound puppy that nobody wanted." He came to live with her family about a year and a half ago, telling her he could not stay with his own family because of "some issues with his stepmother."

She described Hawkins as well-behaved, although "he had a lot of emotional problems, obviously."

Maruca Kovac told the Omaha World-Herald that Hawkins showed her an assault rifle the night before the rampage, but she wasn't alarmed.

The shootings began about 1:42 p.m. (2:42 p.m. ET).

Seven people were found dead at the scene by officers who arrived six minutes later; two others, a male and a female, died after being transported to Creighton University Medical Center, said Fire Chief Robert Dahlquist.

Warren said Hawkins' body and the AK-47 with SKS 7.66 mm ammunition were found on the store's third floor.

Maruca Kovac told CNN that Hawkins left the house Wednesday about 11 a.m., and called the house about two hours later, sounding upset.

"He just said he wanted to thank me for everything I'd done for him ... and he was sorry," Maruca Kovac said. He told her he had gotten fired from his job at a McDonald's restaurant, she said.

"I said, 'Come home and we'll talk about it,' " she recounted. "He said, 'It's too late.' He said he'd left a note explaining everything."

Kramer told CNN she heard at least 25 shots.

"I looked at my mom and said, 'We need to get out of here. Those are gunshots,' " Kramer said. "I just grabbed my mom and we ran to the back of the men's department and hid in some pants racks."

Mall employee Charissa Tatoon said a man by an escalator near her was heard saying he was calling 911. See a map of where the shooting took place »

"Immediately after that, the shooter shot down from the third floor and shot him on the second floor," she said.

Maruca Kovac said Hawkins had been through a rough patch recently.

"When he first came to live with us, he was in the fetal position and chewed his fingernails all the time," she said. But she said she thought he was improving, as he had gotten a job, a haircut and a girlfriend.

However, she said Hawkins and his girlfriend had broken up in the last couple of weeks, and he had taken it hard. Then he got fired from McDonald's on Wednesday.

A friend of Hawkins' said he hadn't thought Hawkins was capable of such violence.

"No. No way," Shawn Saunders, who had known Hawkins for about two-and-a-half years, told CNN. "... The Robbie I knew was a lot like me, and I just never thought he'd do something like that.

"He was the one guy, you know, if people would be getting in a fight he'd be trying to break it up," Saunders said. "If there were arguments amongst our friends or groups, he was kind of like the calm, cool and collected one." Watch how Saunders learned Hawkins was the shooter »

President Bush had visited Omaha on Wednesday before the shooting.

"The president is deeply saddened by the shootings in Omaha," White House press secretary Dana Perino said. "His thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families."

CNN's Kevin Bohn contributed to this report.

I'm horrified that this could happen with someone who was described as the "calm, cool and collected one" of a group of friends. Were there even warning signs? Doesn't look like it - other than showing his guardian a gun the night before. What did she think then? Did she assume it was fake?

Do you see shootings like this one and those at Columbine and Virginia Tech as a trend among disgruntled young men, or just a singular instance to be thrown in with all the rest of the horrible things of this world?

I definitely see a trend. I can't assume conspiracy theory or underground movement... but more a terrible behavioral trend of mistreated young people trying to be heard. What can we do to improve things? Were shootings this run-of-the-mill in the past, or is this a recent trend?

squeeeb · 12-06-2007, 10:12 AM

i don't' see it as a trend. it's horrible, yes, but it's not new.

do you remember the song "i don't like mondays" by the boomtown rats? that song was about a 16 year old girl in 1979 who opened fire at a school ,when asked why she did it, she replied "i don't like mondays." in 1975, ottawa canada, some dude shot up his school.

as awful as it is, kids have been violently "acting out" for quite some time. maybe not all school shootings, but murders.

i saw a video of an interrogation of a kid who killed another kid (they were both under 15 years old) and i also remember a story (don't know if this is true, but we all talked about it) about a kid who killed another kid "because he was fat and i didn't think anyone would miss him." kids have been fucked up for years.

there has probably been a good number of similar acts by youths in the past, we just didn't hear about them because there was no internet and immediate cell phone picture coverage of the event.

Infinite_Loser · 12-06-2007, 10:16 AM

Can't say I really care. Just more of white folk being white folk (Yeah yeah... Save me the grief that I will undoubtedly get when someone decides to quote me).

Fotzlid · 12-06-2007, 11:16 AM

the only trend i see with these types of shootings is the increasing power of the weapon of choice. no more .38s or 9mm. they all seem to be using AK's and TEC's.

Plan9 · 12-06-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fotzlid

the only trend i see with these types of shootings is the increasing power of the weapon of choice. no more .38s or 9mm. they all seem to be using AK's and TEC's.

The guy used an SKS.

...

No, seriously... the weapon issue? It doesn't really matter. The body count from a handgun vs. an "assault rifle" vs. whatever you pick isn't going to fluctuate all that much considering the total amateurs who wield them and the bovine-like reaction of those who are getting slaughtered.

Columbine? VT? This crap? Way different weapons. Same effect.

I'd suggest letting more lawful citizens legally carry firearms. It would have taken any average joe two shots to end that... could have saved a lot of lives.

...

TEC? I assume you are referring to the Intratec TEC-9 series 9mm semi-automatic pistol. The thing is a big piece of junk at best and to top it all off? You'd really have to dig to find one local these days. They're rare thanks to all sorts of legislation that picked on the manufacturer specifically.

Statistically? The only criminals that use the Tec-9 are the ones you see on the idiot-box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Can't say I really care. Just more of white folk being white folk (Yeah yeah... Save me the grief that I will undoubtedly get when someone decides to quote me).

Hahaha... *cranks some 50 Cent*

The race card isn't even funny, dude.

dksuddeth · 12-06-2007, 11:51 AM

again, another mass murder/shooting occurring in an area where guns are not allowed. what's the world coming to when criminals and psychopaths won't obey the rules?

sapiens · 12-06-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fotzlid

the only trend i see with these types of shootings is the increasing power of the weapon of choice. no more .38s or 9mm. they all seem to be using AK's and TEC's.

I see more and more people not keeping track of their emotionally unstable family members.

Fotzlid · 12-06-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

The body count from a handgun vs. an "assault rifle" vs. whatever you pick isn't going to fluctuate all that much considering the total amateurs who wield them and the bovine-like reaction of those who are getting slaughtered.

this guy was shooting from the third floor according to one report i read. a handgun wouldnt have done as much damage from that distance. i'm not a big gun person but i do believe the muzzle velocity of an assault rifle is a bit higher than a handgun. not to mention the ammo design.

what are you referring to as a bovine-like reaction?

Quote:

I'd suggest letting more lawful citizens legally carry firearms. It would have taken any average joe two shots to end that... could have saved a lot of lives.

thats making the assumption that the "average joe" is a better shot.

analog · 12-06-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

I'm horrified that this could happen with someone who was described as the "calm, cool and collected one" of a group of friends.

People who are angry/disgruntled/upset, and yell, have an outlet for their hostility to blow off their negative energy...

It's the quiet ones you really have to worry about.

cj2112 · 12-06-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fotzlid

this guy was shooting from the third floor according to one report i read. a handgun wouldnt have done as much damage from that distance. i'm not a big gun person but i do believe the muzzle velocity of an assault rifle is a bit higher than a handgun. not to mention the ammo design.

The third floor is only 20-25 ft up, I'm pretty sure that most hand gun ammo (we'll say a 9mm) has an effective range of around 150 ft.

dksuddeth · 12-06-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fotzlid

this guy was shooting from the third floor according to one report i read. a handgun wouldnt have done as much damage from that distance. i'm not a big gun person but i do believe the muzzle velocity of an assault rifle is a bit higher than a handgun. not to mention the ammo design.

I can hit expert marksmanship at 25 yards with a 9mm or .45. 25 feet to 45 feet is not very far at all.

Plan9 · 12-06-2007, 01:32 PM

Did I read that the guy's girlfriend left him and he was fired from his job at McDonalds? Wow. Talk about hitting bottom.

Why didn't he just turn to drugs and alcohol like all his peers?

Fotzlid · 12-06-2007, 01:41 PM

good shooting.
still doubt the average joe is that good.

cj2112 · 12-06-2007, 01:57 PM

I doubt the average joe walks into a mall and starts shooting.

dksuddeth · 12-06-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Did I read that the guy's girlfriend left him and he was fired from his job at McDonalds? Wow. Talk about hitting bottom.

Why didn't he just turn to drugs and alcohol like all his peers?

he'd already done that with a few misdemeanor drug convictions, one felony, and a charge of minor in possession of alcohol, where he was due in court in 2 weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj2112

I doubt the average joe walks into a mall and starts shooting.

what happened here then?

Charlatan · 12-06-2007, 02:19 PM

I haven't seen Bill O around. I hope he's ok.

Ustwo · 12-06-2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fotzlid

good shooting.
still doubt the average joe is that good.

I'm not military trained, nor do I shoot for sport, and I can't imagine I'd have much trouble at that range. Hell I can do it with paintballs and those are a hell of a lot less accurate.

cj2112 · 12-06-2007, 03:51 PM

I wouldn't call this kid an "average joe".

Baraka_Guru · 12-06-2007, 03:52 PM

I'm sure it'd be the same if you've played enough first-person shooters. It can't be that difficult to shoot a gun.

World's King · 12-06-2007, 04:20 PM

They're talking on the news about needing to install metal detectors at the doors in all malls.

I find that to be the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

Infinite_Loser · 12-06-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fotzlid

good shooting.
still doubt the average joe is that good.

I got a chuckle out of this comment.

Plan9 · 12-06-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

I'm sure it'd be the same if you've played enough first-person shooters. It can't be that difficult to shoot a gun.

Brother, brother, brother! Whoooo! You'd be surprised. Oh, the things I've seen on the training ranges... and the toes I've nearly lost to dumb privates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

They're talking on the news about needing to install metal detectors at the doors in all malls.

The metal plate in my head would ban me from reaching Hot Topic and J Crew?!

OH NO!

...

Metal detectors are stupid. Kinda like gun exile laws.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I'm not military trained, nor do I shoot for sport, and I can't imagine I'd have much trouble at that range. Hell I can do it with paintballs and those are a hell of a lot less accurate.

Hmmm... there has to be a joke in there somewhere about your expertise with the Desert Eagle chambered in .50 AE.

superposition · 12-06-2007, 07:18 PM

People have been homicidal since the beginning of time. We have had teen killers in this country since its inception - like Lizzie Borden.

ratbastid · 12-06-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

They're talking on the news about needing to install metal detectors at the doors in all malls.

I find that to be the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

Pretty soon you'll have to take your shoes off and throw out your water bottles.... Americans will put up with anything (and anyone *koff George Bush*) if it makes us feel safer.

Fact is, random shit like this happens. It's huge news--as it should be. But the odds of being part of this is even smaller than the odds of being a victim of terrorists. Which is to say, vanishingly, ridiculously small.

icevrething · 12-06-2007, 07:31 PM

My school is relatively close to the mall. We were held in our classroom after school as our school was in lockdown. Within 5 minutes we knew that there had been a shooting(cell phones).

Baraka_Guru · 12-06-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Brother, brother, brother! Whoooo! You'd be surprised. Oh, the things I've seen on the training ranges... and the toes I've nearly lost to dumb privates.

They put warning labels on electronics in regards to water. I think my point still stands.

jorgelito · 12-06-2007, 08:08 PM

Does anyone know if the gun used was a legally registered, lawful gun or an illegal gun?

Swimming pools and drunk drivers are waaaaayyy more dangerous than guns.

Baraka_Guru · 12-06-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Swimming pools and drunk drivers are waaaaayyy more dangerous than guns.

So is walking. And cancer. What's your point?

Plan9 · 12-06-2007, 08:13 PM

Probably a legally registered SKS. They're very lawful in normal states... boring, even. Back in the day (1995) you could buy a crate of 10 Yugoslavian for $1500.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

So is walking. And cancer. What's your point?

Walking isn't dangerous! Hah, I do it all the time! *knees pop*

Ustwo · 12-06-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Hmmm... there has to be a joke in there somewhere about your expertise with the Desert Eagle chambered in .50 AE.

I'm a good shot, and grew up with a bow in my hands, guns are like cheating

Plan9 · 12-06-2007, 08:43 PM

*imagines UsTwo as the Nicholas Cage in The Weatherman*

Dude, that could be your life. Bow and all.

...

Maybe we should ban guns and force citizens to learn archery.

snowy · 12-06-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

*imagines UsTwo as the Nicholas Cage in The Weatherman*

Dude, that could be your life. Bow and all.

...

Maybe we should ban guns and force citizens to learn archery.

Let's do it.

Crompsin, I love you.

Plan9 · 12-06-2007, 08:50 PM

You don't love me, you just love my Crompy style.

*watches for Pig*

I kick ass with the archery stuff. Only problem? Can't hide a bow in your pants.

*waits for predictable cock jokes*

I wonder if McDonald's people had to do any CYA press releases for this guy... since he was fired from their fine establishment.

jorgelito · 12-06-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

So is walking. And cancer. What's your point?

That's exactly it!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Walking isn't dangerous! Hah, I do it all the time! *knees pop*

Actually, I can beat that. I once hurt myself falling down while on a payphone (for those of you old enough to remember payphones).

Plan9 · 12-06-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

That's exactly it!!

I got a hotel hairdryer for you and I took the warning tag off.

WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO NOW?! HUH?! HUH?!

...

Guns have similar labels engraved into the receivers / slides.

"Don't stick this in your ear and pull the trigger. It may harm you."

jorgelito · 12-06-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

I got a hotel hairdryer for you and I took the warning tag off.

WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO NOW?! HUH?! HUH?!

Hmm....toss you a hairdryer and we'll have a duel. I hear you're a good shot onthe range, but how fast can you draw?

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Guns have similar labels engraved into the receivers / slides.

"Don't stick this in your ear and pull the trigger. It may harm you."

I have the same label on my penis.

*sigh* This is why I'm still single

genuinegirly · 12-06-2007, 10:00 PM

Wow, you guys are making me laugh. So glad you can infuse such a depressing topic with some silly humor. I don't know about you guys, but I had an entire quarter of mandatory archery lessons in 8th grade PE class.

Plan9 · 12-07-2007, 03:38 AM

They actually banned archery at my high school because the parents protested it and said it was too violent.

The next month we had a student abducted from a classroom and killed by gang members.

Not related but ironic.

...

Man, I feel all bad that nobody got my sarcasm regarding the drugs and alcohol thing. Oh well. Lemme give a shoutout to all six teenagers in the country who, like me, somehow managed to be nerdy enough to never engage in said recreational inebriation. Ya know, those substances are merely gateways to heavier things... like purchasing old 7.62x39mm Russian semi-automatic rifles and engaging in sad, pointless mall shootings.

Instead of yelling fire in a theater... all you have to yell these days is: "Angry white teenager!"

You don't even have to get deployed to get shot at by these weapons anymore... you can do it outside The Gap!

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

Wow, you guys are making me laugh. So glad you can infuse such a depressing topic with some silly humor.

We all jest, but I would have taken a bullet to keep that dumbass from killing all those people. I wish somebody had done something. I wish mall cops had guns.

Reddogg · 12-07-2007, 04:58 AM

Like rats in a cage... the more rats you got the more crazy they become
I guess we all have become a tad desensitized to violence......

Crack · 12-07-2007, 06:54 AM

Will all the gangsters like I_L have to fire their bows sideways?

12-06-2007, 10:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
squeeeb part of the problem Location: hic et ubique	i don't' see it as a trend. it's horrible, yes, but it's not new. do you remember the song "i don't like mondays" by the boomtown rats? that song was about a 16 year old girl in 1979 who opened fire at a school ,when asked why she did it, she replied "i don't like mondays." in 1975, ottawa canada, some dude shot up his school. as awful as it is, kids have been violently "acting out" for quite some time. maybe not all school shootings, but murders. i saw a video of an interrogation of a kid who killed another kid (they were both under 15 years old) and i also remember a story (don't know if this is true, but we all talked about it) about a kid who killed another kid "because he was fat and i didn't think anyone would miss him." kids have been fucked up for years. there has probably been a good number of similar acts by youths in the past, we just didn't hear about them because there was no internet and immediate cell phone picture coverage of the event. __________________ onward to mayhem!

12-06-2007, 10:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
Infinite_Loser Junkie Location: Lake Mary, FL	Can't say I really care. Just more of white folk being white folk (Yeah yeah... Save me the grief that I will undoubtedly get when someone decides to quote me). __________________ I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

12-06-2007, 11:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	again, another mass murder/shooting occurring in an area where guns are not allowed. what's the world coming to when criminals and psychopaths won't obey the rules? __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

12-06-2007, 01:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Did I read that the guy's girlfriend left him and he was fired from his job at McDonalds? Wow. Talk about hitting bottom. Why didn't he just turn to drugs and alcohol like all his peers? __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

12-06-2007, 02:19 PM	#16 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I haven't seen Bill O around. I hope he's ok. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

12-06-2007, 11:16 AM	#4 (permalink)
Fotzlid Junkie Location: Greater Boston area	the only trend i see with these types of shootings is the increasing power of the weapon of choice. no more .38s or 9mm. they all seem to be using AK's and TEC's.

12-06-2007, 01:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
Fotzlid Junkie Location: Greater Boston area	good shooting. still doubt the average joe is that good.

12-06-2007, 01:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	I doubt the average joe walks into a mall and starts shooting.

12-06-2007, 03:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	I wouldn't call this kid an "average joe".

12-06-2007, 03:52 PM	#19 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	I'm sure it'd be the same if you've played enough first-person shooters. It can't be that difficult to shoot a gun. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

12-06-2007, 04:20 PM	#20 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	They're talking on the news about needing to install metal detectors at the doors in all malls. I find that to be the most absurd thing I have ever heard. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

12-06-2007, 07:18 PM	#23 (permalink)
superposition Upright	People have been homicidal since the beginning of time. We have had teen killers in this country since its inception - like Lizzie Borden.

12-06-2007, 07:31 PM	#25 (permalink)
icevrething Upright Location: Lincoln, NE	My school is relatively close to the mall. We were held in our classroom after school as our school was in lockdown. Within 5 minutes we knew that there had been a shooting(cell phones). __________________

12-06-2007, 08:08 PM	#27 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Does anyone know if the gun used was a legally registered, lawful gun or an illegal gun? Swimming pools and drunk drivers are waaaaayyy more dangerous than guns. Last edited by jorgelito; 12-06-2007 at 08:09 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

12-06-2007, 08:43 PM	#31 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	**imagines UsTwo as the Nicholas Cage in The Weatherman** Dude, that could be your life. Bow and all. ... Maybe we should ban guns and force citizens to learn archery. __________________ Whatever you can carry.** "You should not drink... and bake."

12-06-2007, 08:50 PM	#33 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	You don't love me, you just love my Crompy style. *watches for Pig* I kick ass with the archery stuff. Only problem? Can't hide a bow in your pants. *waits for predictable cock jokes* I wonder if McDonald's people had to do any CYA press releases for this guy... since he was fired from their fine establishment. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

12-06-2007, 10:00 PM	#37 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Wow, you guys are making me laugh. So glad you can infuse such a depressing topic with some silly humor. I don't know about you guys, but I had an entire quarter of mandatory archery lessons in 8th grade PE class. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

12-07-2007, 04:58 AM	#39 (permalink)
Reddogg Upright	Like rats in a cage... the more rats you got the more crazy they become I guess we all have become a tad desensitized to violence......

12-07-2007, 06:54 AM	#40 (permalink)
Crack Misanthropic Location: Ohio! yay!	Will all the gangsters like I_L have to fire their bows sideways? __________________ Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex. ~Halx