13yo girl kills self over cruel MySpace prank done by adult neighbor. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Borla · 11-17-2007, 07:46 AM

This is just incredible. You have to read all the details to realize just how cruel and twisted some people can be. Granted, I'm sure the woman didn't expect or want THIS result from it, but nonetheless what she did was horrible. Imagine being in the place of Megan's parents. They tried to do everything "right" by monitoring their daughter's internet and MySpace access, and still end up with a dead child.

Quote:

POKIN AROUND: A real person, a real death

Roy Sykes photos Tina and Ron Meier look up at the mausoleum gravesite of their daughter Megan, who would have been 15 on Nov. 6.

By Steve Pokin
Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:55 PM CST

His name was Josh Evans. He was 16 years old. And he was hot.

"Mom! Mom! Mom! Look at him!" Tina Meier recalls her daughter saying.

Josh had contacted Megan Meier through her MySpace page and wanted to be added as a friend.Yes, he's cute, Tina Meier told her daughter. "Do you know who he is?"

"No, but look at him! He's hot! Please, please, can I add him?"

Mom said yes. And for six weeks Megan and Josh - under Tina's watchful eye - became acquainted in the virtual world of MySpace.

Josh said he was born in Florida and recently had moved to O'Fallon. He was homeschooled. He played the guitar and drums.

He was from a broken home: "when i was 7 my dad left me and my mom and my older brother and my newborn brother 3 boys god i know poor mom yeah she had such a hard time when we were younger finding work to pay for us after he loeft."

As for 13-year-old Megan, of Dardenne Prairie, this is how she expressed who she was:

M is for Modern

E is for Enthusiastic

G is for Goofy

A is for Alluring

N is for Neglected.

She loved swimming, boating, fishing, dogs, rap music and boys. But her life had not always been easy, her mother says.

She was heavy and for years had tried to lose weight. She had attention deficit disorder and battled depression. Back in third grade she had talked about suicide, Tina says, and ever since had seen a therapist.

But things were going exceptionally well. She had shed 20 pounds, getting down to 175. She was 5 foot 5½ inches tall.

She had just started eighth grade at a new school, Immaculate Conception, in Dardenne Prairie, where she was on the volleyball team. She had attended Fort Zumwalt public schools before that.

Amid all these positives, Tina says, her daughter decided to end a friendship with a girlfriend who lived down the street from them. The girls had spent much of seventh grade alternating between being friends and, the next day, not being friends, Tina says.

Part of the reason for Megan's rosy outlook was Josh, Tina says. After school, Megan would rush to the computer.

"Megan had a lifelong struggle with weight and self-esteem," Tina says. "And now she finally had a boy who she thought really thought she was pretty."

It did seem odd, Tina says, that Josh never asked for Megan's phone number. And when Megan asked for his, she says, Josh said he didn't have a cell and his mother did not yet have a landline.

And then on Sunday, Oct. 15, 2006, Megan received a puzzling and disturbing message from Josh. Tina recalls that it said: "I don't know if I want to be friends with you anymore because I've heard that you are not very nice to your friends."

Frantic, Megan shot back: "What are you talking about?"

SHADOWY CYBERSPACE

Tina Meier was wary of the cyber-world of MySpace and its 70 million users. People are not always who they say they are.

Tina knew firsthand. Megan and the girl down the block, the former friend, once had created a fake MySpace account, using the photo of a good-looking girl as a way to talk to boys online, Tina says. When Tina found out, she ended Megan's access.

MySpace has rules. A lot of them. There are nine pages of terms and conditions. The long list of prohibited content includes sexual material. And users must be at least 14.

"Are you joking?" Tina asks. "There are fifth-grade girls who have MySpace accounts."

As for sexual content, Tina says, most parents have no clue how much there is. And Megan wasn't 14 when she opened her account. To join, you are asked your age but there is no check. The accounts are free.

As Megan's 14th birthday approached, she pleaded for her mom to give her another chance on MySpace, and Tina relented.

She told Megan she would be all over this account, monitoring it. Megan didn't always make good choices because of her ADD, Tina says. And this time, Megan's page would be set to private and only Mom and Dad would have the password.

'GOD-AWFUL FEELING'

Monday, Oct. 16, 2006, was a rainy, bleak day. At school, Megan had handed out invitations to her upcoming birthday party and when she got home she asked her mother to log on to MySpace to see if Josh had responded.

Why did he suddenly think she was mean? Who had he been talking to?

Tina signed on. But she was in a hurry. She had to take her younger daughter, Allison, to the orthodontist.

Before Tina could get out the door it was clear Megan was upset. Josh still was sending troubling messages. And he apparently had shared some of Megan's messages with others.

Tina recalled telling Megan to sign off.

"I will Mom," Megan said. "Let me finish up."

Tina was pressed for time. She had to go. But once at the orthodontist's office she called Megan: Did you sign off?

"No, Mom. They are all being so mean to me."

"You are not listening to me, Megan! Sign off, now!"

Fifteen minutes later, Megan called her mother. By now Megan was in tears.

"They are posting bulletins about me." A bulletin is like a survey. "Megan Meier is a slut. Megan Meier is fat."

Megan was sobbing hysterically. Tina was furious that she had not signed off.

Once Tina returned home she rushed into the basement where the computer was. Tina was shocked at the vulgar language her daughter was firing back at people.

"I am so aggravated at you for doing this!" she told Megan.

Megan ran from the computer and left, but not without first telling Tina, "You're supposed to be my mom! You're supposed to be on my side!"

On the stairway leading to her second-story bedroom, Megan ran into her father, Ron.

"I grabbed her as she tried to go by," Ron says. "She told me that some kids were saying horrible stuff about her and she didn't understand why. I told her it's OK. I told her that they obviously don't know her. And that it would be fine."

Megan went to her room and Ron went downstairs to the kitchen, where he and Tina talked about what had happened, the MySpace account, and made dinner.

Twenty minutes later, Tina suddenly froze in mid-sentence.

"I had this God-awful feeling and I ran up into her room and she had hung herself in the closet."

Megan Taylor Meier died the next day, three weeks before her 14th birthday.

Later that day, Ron opened his daughter's MySpace account and viewed what he believes to be the final message Megan saw - one the FBI would be unable to retrieve from the hard drive.

It was from Josh and, according to Ron's best recollection, it said, "Everybody in O'Fallon knows how you are. You are a bad person and everybody hates you. Have a shitty rest of your life. The world would be a better place without you."

BEYOND GRIEF INTO FURY

Tina and Ron saw a grief counselor. Tina went to a couple of Parents After Loss of Suicide meetings, as well.

They tried to message Josh Evans, to let him know the deadly power of mean words. But his MySpace account had been deleted.

The day after Megan's death, they went down the street to comfort the family of the girl who had once been Megan's friend. They let the girl and her family know that although she and Megan had their ups and down, Megan valued her friendship.

They also attended the girl's birthday party, although Ron had to leave when it came time to sing "Happy Birthday." The Meiers went to the father's 50th birthday celebration. In addition, the Meiers stored a foosball table, a Christmas gift, for that family.

Six weeks after Megan died, on a Saturday morning, a neighbor down the street, a different neighbor, one they didn't know well, called and insisted that they meet that morning at a counselor's office in northern O'Fallon.

The woman would not provide details. Ron and Tina went. Their grief counselor was there. As well as a counselor from Fort Zumwalt West Middle School.

The neighbor from down the street, a single mom with a daughter the same age as Megan, informed the Meiers that Josh Evans never existed.

She told the Meiers that Josh Evans was created by adults, a family on their block. These adults, she told the Meiers, were the parents of Megan's former girlfriend, the one with whom she had a falling out. These were the people who'd asked the Meiers to store their foosball table.

The single mother, for this story, requested that her name not be used. She said her daughter, who had carpooled with the family that was involved in creating the phony MySpace account, had the password to the Josh Evans account and had sent one message - the one Megan received (and later retrieved off the hard drive) the night before she took her life.

"She had been encouraged to join in the joke," the single mother said.

The single mother said her daughter feels the guilt of not saying something sooner and for writing that message. Her daughter didn't speak out sooner because she'd known the other family for years and thought that what they were doing must be OK because, after all, they were trusted adults.

On the night the ambulance came for Megan, the single mother said, before it left the Meiers' house her daughter received a call. It was the woman behind the creation of the Josh Evans account. She had called to tell the girl that something had happened to Megan and advised the girl not to mention the MySpace account.

AX AND SLEDGEHAMMER

The Meiers went home and tore into the foosball table.

Tina used an ax and Ron a sledgehammer. They put the pieces in Ron's pickup and dumped them in their neighbor's driveway. Tina spray painted "Merry Christmas" on the box.

According to Tina, Megan had gone on vacations with this family. They knew how she struggled with depression, that she took medication.

"I know that they did not physically come up to our house and tie a belt around her neck," Tina says. "But when adults are involved and continue to screw with a 13-year-old - with or without mental problems - it is absolutely vile.

"She wanted to get Megan to feel like she was liked by a boy and let everyone know this was a false MySpace and have everyone laugh at her.

"I don't feel their intentions were for her to kill herself. But that's how it ended."

'GAINING MEGAN'S CONFIDENCE'

That same day, the family down the street tried to talk to the Meiers. Ron asked friends to convince them to leave before he physically harmed them.

In a letter dated Nov. 30, 2006, the family tells Ron and Tina, "We are sorry for the extreme pain you are going through and can only imagine how difficult it must be. We have every compassion for you and your family."

The Suburban Journals have decided not to name the family out of consideration for their teenage daughter.

The mother declined comment.

"I have been advised not to give out any information and I apologize for that," she says. "I would love to sit here and talk to you about it but I can't."

She was informed that without her direct comment the newspaper would rely heavily on the police report she filed with the St. Charles County Sheriff's Department regarding the destroyed foosball table.

"I will tell you that the police report is totally wrong," the mother said. "We have worked on getting that changed. I would just be very careful about what you write."

Lt. Craig McGuire, spokesman for the sheriff's department, said he is unaware of anyone contacting the department to alter the report.

"We stand behind the report as written," McGuire says. "There was no supplement to it. What is in the report is what we believe she told us."

The police report - without using the mother's name - states:

"(She) stated in the months leading up Meier's daughter's suicide, she instigated and monitored a 'my space' account which was created for the sole purpose of communicating with Meier's daughter.

"(She) said she, with the help of temporary employee named ------ constructed a profile of 'good looking' male on 'my space' in order to 'find out what Megan (Meier's daughter) was saying on-line' about her daughter. (She) explained the communication between the fake male profile and Megan was aimed at gaining Megan's confidence and finding out what Megan felt about her daughter and other people.

"(She) stated she, her daughter and (the temporary employee) all typed, read and monitored the communication between the fake male profile and Megan …..

"According to (her) 'somehow' other 'my space' users were able to access the fake male profile and Megan found out she had been duped. (She) stated she knew 'arguments' had broken out between Megan and others on 'my space.' (She) felt this incident contributed to Megan's suicide, but she did not feel 'as guilty' because at the funeral she found out 'Megan had tried to commit suicide before.'"

Tina says her daughter died thinking Josh was real and that she never before attempted suicide.

"She was the happiest she had ever been in her life," Ron says.

After years of wearing braces, Megan was scheduled to have them removed the day she died. And she was looking forward to her birthday party.

"She and her mom went shopping and bought a new dress," Ron says. "She wanted to make this grand entrance with me carrying her down the stairs. I never got to see her in that dress until the funeral."

NO CRIMINAL CHARGES

It does not appear that there will be criminal charges filed in connection with Megan's death.

"We did not have a charge to fit it," McGuire says. "I don't know that anybody can sit down and say, 'This is why this young girl took her life.'"

The Meiers say the matter also was investigated by the FBI, which analyzed the family computer and conducted interviews. Ron said a stumbling block is that the FBI was unable to retrieve the electronic messages from Megan's final day, including that final message that only Ron saw.

The Meiers do not plan to file a civil lawsuit. Here's what they want: They want the law changed, state or federal, so that what happened to Megan - at the hands of an adult - is a crime.

THE AFTERMATH IS PAIN

The Meiers are divorcing. Ron says Tina was as vigilant as a parent could be in monitoring Megan on MySpace. Yet she blames herself.

"I have this awful, horrible guilt and this I can never change," she said. "Ever."

Ron struggles daily with the loss of a daughter who, no matter how low she felt, tried to make others laugh and feel a little bit better.

He has difficulty maintaining focus and has kept his job as a tool and die maker through the grace and understanding of his employer, he says. His emotions remain jagged, on edge.

Christine Buckles lives in the same Waterford Crossing subdivision. In her view, everyone in the subdivision knows of Megan's death, but few know of the other family's involvement.

Tina says she and Ron have dissuaded angry friends and family members from vandalizing the other home for one, and only one, reason.

"The police will think we did it," Tina says.

Ron faces a misdemeanor charge of property damage. He is accused of driving his truck across the lawn of the family down the street, doing $1,000 in damage, in March. A security camera the neighbors installed on their home allegedly caught him.

It was Tina, a real estate agent, who helped the other family purchase their home on the same block 2½ years ago.

"I just wish they would go away, move," Ron says.

Vicki Dunn, Tina's aunt, last month placed signs in and near the neighborhood on the anniversary of Megan's death.

They read: "Justice for Megan Meier," "Call the St. Charles County Prosecuting Attorney," and "MySpace Impersonator in Your Neighborhood."

On the window outside Megan's room is an ornamental angel that Ron turns on almost every night. Inside are pictures of boys, posters of Usher, Beyonce and on the dresser a tube of instant bronzer.

"She was all about getting a tan," Ron says.

He has placed the doors back on the closet. Megan had them off.

If only she had waited, talked to someone, or just made it to dinner, then through the evening, and then on to the beginning of a new day in what could have been a remarkable life.

If she had, he says, there is no doubt she would have chosen to live. Instead, there is so much pain.

"She never would have wanted to see her parents divorce," Ron says.

Ultimately, it was Megan's choice to do what she did, he says. "But it was like someone handed her a loaded gun."

http://stcharlesjournal.stltoday.com...okin_1.ii1.txt

Chiyachan · 11-17-2007, 07:54 AM

Some people are really screwed up in the head. It's sickening.

Jenna · 11-17-2007, 08:04 AM

Wow... I can't believe that a grown adult would do something like that.

Esoteric · 11-17-2007, 08:15 AM

That's pretty fucked up. I can't believe there aren't going to be any criminal charges against the people that ultimately caused this girl to commit suicide.

Plan9 · 11-17-2007, 08:21 AM

Modern parenting friggin' rocks!

*goes into a Billy Idol fist pump session*

zipper · 11-17-2007, 08:29 AM

What are the rules for MYSPACE....you must be 14 to create an account. Her mother KNEW she was using MYSPACE...let's point more than one finger here. I see the PARENT just as responsible!

Strange Famous · 11-17-2007, 08:50 AM

So someone who doesnt prevent their 13 year old child signing up to a website which has an age limit of 14, is equally responsible for her death as the person who targeted a young girl that was known to be mentally and emotionally vulnerable and who taunted and goaded her into suicide?

I wouldnt like to live in a world where many people shared your values zipper.

Frosstbyte · 11-17-2007, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esoteric

That's pretty fucked up. I can't believe there aren't going to be any criminal charges against the people that ultimately caused this girl to commit suicide.

What would you call it, though? Involuntary manslaughter? Would you call it some sort of criminal mischief or harassment, even though those crimes typically carry fairly minor penalties? I mean, while being an unmistakably cruel manipulation of a young girl's feelings, it's not any sort of specific crime to fuck with someone's emotions. Even if you knew someone had a history of depression, it's not as if they pursued this course of action with the intent to get her to kill herself, though they certainly weren't trying to make her feel good. The girl definitely had to take a few extra steps beyond their prank to get to killing herself. How upset was she about her parent's "lack of support" and perceived apathy towards her feelings? What, exactly, did the ultimate e-mail say that the FBI mysteriously cannot recover from any hard drive? That particular detail is a major red flag to me that all may not be exactly as it appears in this story.

I feel like the family is doing a surprisingly decent thing by trying to turn this into a positive legal change instead of just suing the pants off of everyone involved, but it's a sticky area that the law has traditionally stayed away from. Emotional injury is not one that we're as quick to recognize as physical injury, and absent some pretty clear evidence that they induced or convinced her to kill herself specifically, I'd be hard pressed to believe that charging them with her death is anything but revenge. Their misdeed was manipulating her emotions, albeit in a bizarre and sadistic way, not killing her, regardless of her predisposition towards suicide or depression, which they may not may not have been aware of.

Give all that, the method of recovery that'd be most direct and appropriate is probably a tort action for intentional infliction of emotional distress. While I see their point, I'm not sure I can come up with a good reason to punish them for more than that. Anything else would be a punishment commensurate with the anger their actions caused as opposed to one commensurate with what their actions actually were, which undermines the whole purpose of a judicial system of crime and punishment.

I almost threadjacked this into a post about suicide, but I think I'll save that for a later, more appropriate venue.

laconic1 · 11-17-2007, 08:54 AM

That's terrible. We have all heard the saying "kids can be so cruel" but an adult playing head games with a kid? Unbelievable. Although there is some responsibility on Megan's parents for allowing her to have a Myspace account in violation of Myspace rules. But whats to say a month later when she would have been in compliance with the rules to have an account that the same thing wouldn't have happened. Messing with kids heads is wrong no matter what age you are and a grown up certainly should know better.

Esoteric · 11-17-2007, 08:59 AM

No clue what you could call it honestly. I just don't think they should be able to get away with what they caused is all. I know they had no intention of getting this girl to kill herself, but damn.

Frosstbyte · 11-17-2007, 09:00 AM

With the massive power of "T3H INTRAWEBS" I found an article describing the measure that they got passed in their home town in response to all this. Turns out that they felt harassment was the proper class of crime and have specifically added electronic harassment to the books and are encouraging other jurisdictions to do the same:

http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com...7940817680.txt

Quote:

FOLLOW UP: Dardenne Prairie officials plan to make cyberspace harassment a crime

By Steve Pokin
Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:15 AM CST

Dardenne Prairie officials Wednesday night told a couple who lost a daughter to suicide last year that they will pass a law to make cyberspace harassment a crime in this city of 7,000 and will also pass a resolution next week to encourage the state Legislature to address the problem.

"I cannot sit here and do nothing," said Mayor Pam Fogarty. "It is not in my nature."

Fogarty and the city's six aldermen were responding to a Sunday story in the Suburban Journal about Megan Meier, a 13-year-old girl who killed herself Oct. 17, 2006. Megan took her life after a boy named Josh Evans had befriended her on MySpace, an on-line social network, and suddenly was mean to her.

The story has received national attention. The Meiers are scheduled to be interviewed by CNN Thursday afternoon.

Six weeks after Megan's death, parents Ron and Tina Meier, who live in Dardenne Prairie, discovered that Josh Evans never existed and, instead, was created by a woman who lives down the street. The neighbor's daughter had been a friend of Megan's but the girls had a falling out.

The Meiers were at Wednesday night's meeting, with Ron holding a photo of Megan.

"We want the laws updated," he told city officials.

Fogarty instructed City Attorney John Young to draft an ordinance that would make it a Class B misdemeanor - punishable by 90 days in jail and/or a $500 fine - to harass someone over the Internet.

That is the maximum penalty for a fourth-class city such as Dardenne Prairie.

Young said that at the state level harassment is a Class A misdemeanor. Such crimes are punishable by up to a year in jail and/or a $1,000 fine.

Young said the state charge has not been updated since 1974. David Hamilton, who also represents the city, added that the language in the state law is so dated that it does not specifically address harassment via the Internet.

That's why city officials plan to pass a resolution at the Nov. 21 Board of Aldermen meeting urging the state to take action.

State Rep. Cynthia Davis, R-19th District, of O'Fallon, was in attendance.

Davis spoke publicly and cautioned that the dangers of cyberspace extend far beyond the boundaries of Dardenne Prairie, as well as Missouri and even the nation.

"I would love to file a bill for you," Davis said. "But I don't want to say, 'Don't worry, I'll take care of it.' And then I give you something that does not address the entire problem."

Davis said later she is "committed to exploring the options" of filing a bill and as quickly as Thursday would ask House staff researchers to look into the matter.

Ward 3 Alderman Mike Coyne responded to Davis. "You can't wait for the federal government to do something," he said. "It starts at the local level and the state level."

OK then, Fogarty said, might as well add a second resolution for next week: one urging the federal government to address cyberspace harassment.

Any new legislation would not apply to the circumstances of Megan's death.

The woman who created the fake MySpace page called police and filed a report Nov. 25, 2006, after the Meiers destroyed a foosball table they had been storing in their garage for the family down the street. The Meiers destroyed it on the day they learned the neighbor had created the phony Josh Evans account.

In that police report, the woman down the street told a sheriff's deputy she created the MySpace page to see what Megan was saying about her daughter. She also said the account was monitored by her, her daughter and an 18-year-old part-time employee.

The neighbor, when contacted by the Journal last week, disputed the accuracy of that police report. She has not been charged and is not being sued.

Megan had gone on vacations with this other family and they knew Megan battled depression, according to Tina Meier.

The Meiers, who are divorcing in large part due to Megan's suicide, were pleased by the steps taken by the city Wednesday night.

"It's a step," Ron said.

"I truly feel it's a start in the right direction," Tina said.

Nationally, politicians in several states are pushing legislation aimed at protecting children by requiring MySpace, which has 70 million users, and Facebook, which has 47 million users, to verify ages and to require parental permission for those under 18, according to the New York Times.

Missouri is not one of those states, said state Sen.-elect Tom Dempsey, R-23rd District, of St. Charles.

Facebook last month agreed to immediately post sterner warnings about the dangers to children and to respond quicker to complaints about inappropriate sexual messages.

Edit: I always forget the proper html code to hide articles so they have to be clicked to open, so if someone could remind me, I'll throw that in...

Willravel · 11-17-2007, 09:01 AM

Boy that's sad. Megan was a ticking time bomb. If it wasn't some asshole on myspace, it would have been someone or something else.

Plan9 · 11-17-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

stuff

Sticks and stones, brother. The reality of it is that every woman has been a slut, every man a dickhead, and every person an asshole... to somebody at some point early in their life regardless of relation or even contact. What is it that guy says on British / Australian TV? "Harden the fuck up."

Just because we currently live in a fad emo drama-queen culture (kids/teens in the first world bloc) doesn't mean we have to give in to it like pop culture jellyfish.

...

What parent is letting their kid on a website like MySpace unsupervised at that age? Kids have much better things to do at 13. Like be kids.

There may be "no harm" for most kids that age being online in social networking sites... but what is the real good of it?

====================================================

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosstbyte

Online harassment is now a crime

Huh. Okay, I got it.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

opinion, opinion, opinion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

opinion, dickhead, opinion, asshole, opinion poopoodoodyface!

*Crompsin goes to jail*

Borla · 11-17-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

What parent is letting their kid on a website like MySpace unsupervised at that age? Kids have much better things to do at 13. Like be kids.

There may be "no harm" for most kids that age being online in social networking sites... but what is the real good of it?

Actually, the parents didn't even let her have the password, so she could only log in when they were around. It was just one time when the mom left while she was online (and told her to log off, and even called later to confirm that she logged off) that the worst of it went down.

Compared to 99% of parents out there with teenagers, I'd say that's fairly strict/responsible parenting.

Plan9 · 11-17-2007, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borla

Actually, the parents didn't even let her have the password, so she could only log in when they were around. It was just one time when the mom left while she was online (and told her to log off, and even called later to confirm that she logged off) that the worst of it went down.

Compared to 99% of parents out there with teenagers, I'd say that's fairly strict/responsible parenting.

Right, right... she sure "controlled" the password and then called down the hall to make sure her daughter was logging off. That's monitoring for ya. I wonder how much of the content her mother was actually checking on.

That's like telling little hormonal Billy he can take the keys to the car on Saturday between 10 and 2 and then letting him go wherever he wants.

Is he safer because you know he took the car with your permission?

Borla · 11-17-2007, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Right, right... she sure "controlled" the password and then called down the hall to make sure her daughter was logging off. That's monitoring for ya. I wonder how much of the content her mother was actually checking on.

That's like telling little hormonal Billy he can take the keys to the car on Saturday between 10 and 2 and then letting him go wherever he wants.

Is he safer because you know he took the car with your permission?

If you read the article carefully, you see that she even had to have her mom's permission to add someone as a friend.

That's more like having your parents in the backseat of the car at all times.

Strange Famous · 11-17-2007, 09:26 AM

I think the point I was trying to make, C. is that it is not morally acceptable for a grown adult to torment a mentally unstable 13 year old to the point that she is driven to take her own life.

Yes, we all get called names, most people get betrayed sometime in their lives... some people can't handle it, most of us do some way or another.

She was a just a kid, with a lot of problems... and they poured fuel on the fire for their own entertainment. This isnt a falling out of friends, this isnt standard HS bullshit. This an adult tormenting a child, and the child is dead.

I personally cant see how it could be legally actionable, but their is blood on their hands to some extent.

Anxst · 11-17-2007, 09:34 AM

I don't think the parenting was too bad, based on what I read. You can't monitor every word that enters the kid's airspace at all times.

I also think the article sounds pretty biased against Myspace. The adults who did this could have just as easily done it with notes in the 80's, or false gossip in the 1600's, or whatever. Information disseminates, it's the nature of the beast.

The fault, here, lies with the adults who chose to belittle a depressed little girl to the point that she killed herself because their daughter didn't like her anymore. What bastards.

dksuddeth · 11-17-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Boy that's sad. Megan was a ticking time bomb. If it wasn't some asshole on myspace, it would have been someone or something else.

how saddening that you could think this. I thought better of you.

though the mother holds some responsibility for not ensuring total access control, the real responsibility lies with the fucked up adults at the other end of this tragedy. While criminal charges may not be possible, i'd be all over a civil suit with these lowlifes for millions for being responsible for the death of this child.

Willravel · 11-17-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

how saddening that you could think this. I thought better of you.

So she wasn't a time bomb? You're suggesting someone who killed herself because she was badmouthed on myspace is a normal and healthy teen? I'd beg to differ with that.

This is simply a terrible crossing of bad decisions and unfortunate circumstances. People do this kind of crap on myspace every day with no fatalities. Yes, some people are massive dicks, but being responsible for someone's suicide? Give me a break. Don't let emotional content skew your perspective.

ring · 11-17-2007, 10:01 AM

She was close to the edge from what we know.

A coward and bully pushed her over from what we know.

The whole business makes me want to sign up for the "Human Beings for Voluntary Extinction Group"

Blechh.

Infinite_Loser · 11-17-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

People do this kind of crap on myspace every day with no fatalities. Yes, some people are massive dicks, but being responsible for someone's suicide? Give me a break. Don't let emotional content skew your perspective.

QFT.

Frosstbyte · 11-17-2007, 10:32 AM

To IL and WR, I think the pertinent point you're both ignoring is one that SF made so very clearly:

Quote:

She was a just a kid, with a lot of problems... and they poured fuel on the fire for their own entertainment. This isnt a falling out of friends, this isnt standard HS bullshit. This an adult tormenting a child, and the child is dead.

I personally cant see how it could be legally actionable, but their is blood on their hands to some extent.

We fully expect that kids will sling insults at each other, and, in fact, we expect that it's an important part of getting thicker skin as one grows up. We do not expect adults to cruelly manipulate children for revenge or entertainment.

Psycho Dad · 11-17-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

This is simply a terrible crossing of bad decisions and unfortunate circumstances. People do this kind of crap on myspace every day with no fatalities. Yes, some people are massive dicks, but being responsible for someone's suicide? Give me a break. Don't let emotional content skew your perspective.

Agreed. This event while sad has more to it than the article posted and has a certain " but think of the children appeal" to it.

The girl was certainly troubled, the parents knew that. And I bet they believed that they were helping her in some way by having this "friend". Yet they let her add this person that appeared to be a prince charming who came from out of the blue without themselves questioning why this too good to be true young man was interested in a girl he never met.

Willravel · 11-17-2007, 10:40 AM

Blame is really tricky in this situation. Obviously some of the blame lies with the tricksters, but it's difficult for me to lay the blame on the parents. What kind of parent actually monitors their child's use of myspace? What kind of parent takes therir daughter to a councelor when they're concerned? That's insanely good parenting. Most parents don't make time to keep an eye on their myspace kids, to the detriment of the children.

This really just strikes me as a case of "that's really sad" or "those were really unfortunate circumstances".

dksuddeth · 11-17-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

So she wasn't a time bomb? You're suggesting someone who killed herself because she was badmouthed on myspace is a normal and healthy teen? I'd beg to differ with that.

so would I, simply because NOBODY is a normal and healthy teen. she may or may not have been a timebomb, but the problem is you're talking about a 13 year old, someone who, despite what appear to be best efforts at parenting, was PURPOSEFULLY led in to an emotionally upsetting and imbalanced state by human scum masquerading as adults. You are being extrememly hypocritical blaming this girl for her death, yet at the same time purporting to blame inanimate objects for the deaths of thousands. (you know what i'm talking about.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

QFT.

Quoted for ridiculous insantity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Blame is really tricky in this situation. Obviously some of the blame lies with the tricksters, but it's difficult for me to lay the blame on the parents. What kind of parent actually monitors their child's use of myspace? What kind of parent takes their daughter to a councelor when they're concerned? That's insanely good parenting. Most parents don't make time to keep an eye on their myspace kids, to the detriment of the children.

98% of the blame is placed squarely on the shoulders of the 3 adults on the opposite end of this assinine scheme. This SHOULD be the culmination of ruinous events that adults have continued to inflict on their childrens lives that started with suing school districts over a teacher giving their beloved innocent child a failing grade. It won't fucking happen though because we've got too many adults in this country who have no fricking idea how to act as adults.

analog · 11-17-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Boy that's sad. Megan was a ticking time bomb. If it wasn't some asshole on myspace, it would have been someone or something else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

how saddening that you could think this. I thought better of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

So she wasn't a time bomb? You're suggesting someone who killed herself because she was badmouthed on myspace is a normal and healthy teen? I'd beg to differ with that.

[...] Yes, some people are massive dicks, but being responsible for someone's suicide? Give me a break. Don't let emotional content skew your perspective.

Bingo.

I find it kind of crass that they're going to such great lengths to get a "harassment" law passed... either they believe their daughter's death is worth a penalty of one whole year in jail (only if the state passes it, and no one would ever serve more than 5 or 6 months of that anyway), or they're really just pushing the issue because they're being emotional.

If the state law already existed, the outcry would then be that 1 year is hardly a fitting punishment for the loss of a child. Getting that charge to stick is, at best, retaliatory. Laws are not supposed to serve emotional baggage, or to retaliate against someone in whatever small way is feasible. Laws are created to protect, or provide punishment (not retaliation) for a crime. This harassment "law" they've concocted is a joke.

Suicide is a personal decision. The kid was mentally unstable. Yes, it's fucked up that people would harass a 13 year old for jollies. No, you can't blame them for the kid's suicide. No one can be blamed for a suicide but the person themselves- that's why there is no law to help assuage the emotionally distraught parents.

They aren't looking for justice, they're looking for revenge- in whatever form they can find. I can't blame them, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Ustwo · 11-17-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borla

If you read the article carefully, you see that she even had to have her mom's permission to add someone as a friend.

That's more like having your parents in the backseat of the car at all times.

I don't believe it.

I think Mom is in a bit of CYA mode.

Oh I MONITORED my daughter, I'm not at fault at all, she couldn't do ANYTHING on line without me, it just happened the ONE time I wasn't there this happened and I even called to make sure she was off.

Remember, one side of the story here.

ring · 11-17-2007, 11:26 AM

Punishment..Retaliation.

Revenge.. Justice.

The laws are made by humans and humans are emotional creatures.

Tell me you have never seen a judge pass down judgement without any emotion or revenge in his eyes.

Laws are rife with emotional baggage.

Strange Famous · 11-17-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

, or they're really just pushing the issue because they're being emotional.

.....

They aren't looking for justice, they're looking for revenge- in whatever form they can find. I can't blame them, but that doesn't mean it's right.

I think you are entirely wrong. They may want revenge, and it would be unusual if thet did not - but that is hardly the motivation for their campaign.

They are doing it because they want to DO SOMETHING... to somehow deal with the fact that there is nothing they can do to save their daughter.

For once, I agree with you on the main point though. The grief that the parents feel must be terrible, and it is not helpful for the media to lay them vulnerable with public campaigns and laminations like that. They should protected and allowed to cope with this in private. Yes - it is a silly law that they propose, on the whole; and yes I completely understand why they want to propose it, but this wont help them heal, it will tie them evermore to the tragedy in a way that is damaging.

Lastly, the adults responsible for taunting this poor girl are amongst the lowest scum of humanity. People vandalising their house should be the least of their concerns.

(edit - I of course meant lamentations, not laminations)

Borla · 11-17-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I don't believe it.

I think Mom is in a bit of CYA mode.

Oh I MONITORED my daughter, I'm not at fault at all, she couldn't do ANYTHING on line without me, it just happened the ONE time I wasn't there this happened and I even called to make sure she was off.

Remember, one side of the story here.

Phone calls = records to investigate.

The FBI investigated this case. It'd be horrible investigative skills not to task someone to cross check facts like whether a phone call made on a specific day at a specific time, hours before someone killed themself. It is simple to substantiate, and common sense that the FBI would do that before believing it as fact.

dksuddeth · 11-17-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

Suicide is a personal decision. The kid was mentally unstable. Yes, it's fucked up that people would harass a 13 year old for jollies. No, you can't blame them for the kid's suicide. No one can be blamed for a suicide but the person themselves- that's why there is no law to help assuage the emotionally distraught parents.

Tell everyone that if ever YOUR 13 year old takes their life because of the actions of another adult.

you people amaze me, so ready to hold a 13 year old girls actions as something she should be personally responsible for, yet decry the notion that we should hold a 17 year old to be tried as an adult for murder. idiocy. no wonder we're so fucked up as a nation.

Willravel · 11-17-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

so would I, simply because NOBODY is a normal and healthy teen.

O RLY? And what accredited university did you get your degree in psychology in? It's fun to throw around 'the world isn't normal' statements, but the reality is that .01% really isn't everybody. While suicide isn't really rare, it's far from the norm even for teens. Just because you nor I were normal teens doesn't mean everyone wasn't, and I don't think I ever considered suicide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

she may or may not have been a timebomb, but the problem is you're talking about a 13 year old, someone who, despite what appear to be best efforts at parenting, was PURPOSEFULLY led in to an emotionally upsetting and imbalanced state by human scum masquerading as adults. You are being extrememly hypocritical blaming this girl for her death, yet at the same time purporting to blame inanimate objects for the deaths of thousands. (you know what i'm talking about.)

You're incorrect. I'm not blaming anyone, lest of all the poor girl. The circumstances— potentially suicidal teen meets idiot pranksters—are really all that you can blame. It was an unfortunate situation. That's all.

BTW, I'm going to start reporting you every time you try to threadjack with guns from now on. You're mature and intelligent enough to compartmentalize that particular argument into the 400 threads you've started on the subject. This thread has nothing at all to do with guns.
/threadjack

*Nikki* · 11-17-2007, 11:41 AM

I'm not seeing them as bad parents. Teenagers are emotional, angst ridden individuals. They act out in all kinds of ways. This particular child had even more issues then the normal teen, and perhaps her parents thought she was overcoming a lot of them. I think 70% of the blame lies with the parent who was posting the crap on myspace and the other 30% goes to the child and the child's parents.

Maybe some of us have forgotten how confusing it is to be a teen?

mixedmedia · 11-17-2007, 11:50 AM

I'm not at all surprised at this. I've met some parents who are pretty alarmingly immature.

Actually, now that I think about it, we had an incident with the mother of one of my daughter's friends who decided she didn't like my daughter. I can't remember why now...but the woman had a MySpace page with pictures of herself at anime conventions dressed up like a 14-year-old. It was really pathetic. She was like - 35 years old.

She said some things about my daughter on MySpace. We just blew it off. But the one time I met her face to face after that she wouldn't look me in the eye.

It's fucking scary, but we have a lot of people who just never grow up.

And that said, I tend to agree with will and analog.

It's a fucked up situation, but not much that can (or should) be done about it.

roachboy · 11-17-2007, 11:53 AM

jesus, what a fucked up situation.
this seems redundant. i dont know.

1.
particular:
i detest myspace.
maybe its the genuinely ugly interface design. maybe its the importance that such a shallow space has assumed. maybe it's rupert murdoch. maybe it's the fact that it is SO fucking stupid. such spaces seem to encourage more stupidity. it also encourages lying, which we call "manipulation of identity or persona"...

nothing seems to me more tedious that stupid people lying to each other.

2.

general:

one question it raises--apart from the particulars of the story, about which i am having some trouble making a judgment simply because we really dont know enough about megan to be able to ascribe blame or explain much--one question this raises concerns the nature of internet communication, the curious way in which a 2-d persona gets filled in by others with projections, the way in which these projections replace the actual 3-d person behind the persona, the extent to which these projections enable irresponsibility, the extent to which they make responsibility impossible nearly.
you dont really know who you are interacting with.
you dont have any cues that'd indicate when you might have gone too far.

internet communication is in many ways the pure expression of capitalist social relations: we make ourselves into things and treat others as things.
within this general repetition of capitalist social relations, we pretend that we dissent.
there is something structurally fucked up about all of it.

so for example you can abstract yourself from the possibility that what you write inflicts pain: you can turn it into a parlor game because the target of your unspooling of whatever sadistic impulse you allow to unspool is an abstraction, not a person.
you can enjoy what in 3-d would be sadism: the replacement of a human being with an abstraction based on your own fantasies enables the erasure of
any ethical consideration that would get in the way of such in 3-d.

think about it: you see parallel activity here: think about the way in which the community deals or does not deal with those who might have deep psychological issues who turn up. collectively, we cant even tell if these issues are real or if they follow from a process of persona construction, whether what gets written is mimetic or if it is fiction. this because despite what you might prefer to pretend obtains about what people write, there is no agreement AT ALL about that relation.
so how is anyone supposed to make a judgment about how to communicate if you cant even figure out the status of what you are reading?
self-limitation.
but the abstraction that shapes all communication over the net militates against that.
so when you let go and allow your inner asshole to come out to play, you can pretend that nothing is at stake.

from the above, it should be obvious that i find netcommunication to be quite alienating, frankly.
i write stuff here, but in general am acutely aware that you dont really know me on the basis of it.
you write stuff here and no-one knows you on that basis. they know fragments of you. they fill in the rest with projections. so do you with reference to everyone else.
but there is a community because of the degree to which the parameters (the rules and assumptions) that shape tfp reinforce our inclinations to want to see in it a community.
because we share at one level or another the desire to see a community, we act as though there is one.
so there is one.

nothing like that obtains on myspace.
that is why myspace is a cesspool.

analog · 11-17-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

Tell everyone that if ever YOUR 13 year old takes their life because of the actions of another adult.

You didn't quote or didn't read the most important bit- the isolated, very last thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

They aren't looking for justice, they're looking for revenge- in whatever form they can find. I can't blame them, but that doesn't mean it's right.

I can't blame them for wanting revenge. At all. If it were my kid, there'd be a house full of bodies down the street and I'd be going to jail for the multiple murder of my daughter's harassers, more than likely. That doesn't mean I condone revenge, or would support it with law.

Quote:

you people amaze me, so ready to hold a 13 year old girls actions as something she should be personally responsible for, yet decry the notion that we should hold a 17 year old to be tried as an adult for murder. idiocy. no wonder we're so fucked up as a nation.

Who the hell is arguing that a 17 year old shouldn't be tried for murder as an adult? Where the hell did you get that suggestion? Certainly not from me, and I don't think from any of the other "suicide is her choice" people in this thread. In fact, in the last thread about prosecuting minors as adults, I remember being very vocal about prosecuting minors as adults for adult crimes- so I have no clue what you're talking about. You're comparing the opinions of some people not even in this discussion, to the opinions of some other people, who are in this discussion, on two completely unrelated topics.

Why not just post, "it's amazing that some of you want to blame the daughter, considering so many of you prefer strawberry, over grape, on your peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches."

dksuddeth · 11-17-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

O RLY? And what accredited university did you get your degree in psychology in?

Yes, really. I grew up, that's my university.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

You're incorrect. I'm not blaming anyone, lest of all the poor girl. The circumstances— potentially suicidal teen meets idiot pranksters—are really all that you can blame. It was an unfortunate situation. That's all.

so what you're really saying is that 30 year old adults aren't any more responsible than 13 year olds, because your so called 'idiot pranksters' were PARENTS and supposedly ADULTS. If you can seriously sit there and say that the 13 year old and the 'pranksters' have equal responsibility, then your judgement, intelligence, and opinions are of serious questionability. You'll certainly think different IF your own daughter were the one that committed suicide because of the 'circumstances'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

BTW, I'm going to start reporting you every time you try to threadjack with guns from now on.

then fucking report me moron. I made a reference, not a threadjack. One would THINK you were more intelligent than that, given some of the threads you've made on here, but that was obviously a facade because you've demonstrated a complete and total LACK of intelligence from this topic alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

You didn't quote or didn't read the most important bit- the isolated, very last thought.
Originally Posted by analog
They aren't looking for justice, they're looking for revenge- in whatever form they can find. I can't blame them, but that doesn't mean it's right.

You are very correct and I apologize to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

Who the hell is arguing that a 17 year old shouldn't be tried for murder as an adult? Where the hell did you get that suggestion? Certainly not from me, and I don't think from any of the other "suicide is her choice" people in this thread. In fact, in the last thread about prosecuting minors as adults, I remember being very vocal about prosecuting minors as adults for adult crimes- so I have no clue what you're talking about. You're comparing the opinions of some people not even in this discussion, to the opinions of some other people, who are in this discussion, on two completely unrelated topics.

Again, you are completely correct. I wholeheartedly apologize for the generalization.

ring · 11-17-2007, 12:19 PM

Thank you roachboy person for the profound statements that I believe cut to the heart of this matter.

analog · 11-17-2007, 12:23 PM

Oh, and just to add:

Hypothetically, if the "harassment" law had already existed, she'd still be dead, and I don't think it would even apply here.

The point is, she wasn't harassed over time. She wasn't slowly and methodically mentally beaten into submission and self-loathing. They didn't stalk her and feed her negativity and mentally torture her over a period of time. She wasn't "broken down".

The messages that seemingly lead to her ending her own life came all at once, on one day, read in one online session. You'd have a difficult time of proving "harassment" in court when it's based off of what is essentially one relatively short conversation (the back and forth messages).

11-17-2007, 08:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Modern parenting friggin' rocks! *goes into a Billy Idol fist pump session* __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

11-17-2007, 08:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
zipper Crazy Location: Georgia, USA	What are the rules for MYSPACE....you must be 14 to create an account. Her mother KNEW she was using MYSPACE...let's point more than one finger here. I see the PARENT just as responsible! __________________ "If you wait 'til the last minute, it will only take you a minute!" Visit my home page http://zhphotography.zenfolio.com/

11-17-2007, 08:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	So someone who doesnt prevent their 13 year old child signing up to a website which has an age limit of 14, is equally responsible for her death as the person who targeted a young girl that was known to be mentally and emotionally vulnerable and who taunted and goaded her into suicide? I wouldnt like to live in a world where many people shared your values zipper. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

11-17-2007, 09:26 AM	#17 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I think the point I was trying to make, C. is that it is not morally acceptable for a grown adult to torment a mentally unstable 13 year old to the point that she is driven to take her own life. Yes, we all get called names, most people get betrayed sometime in their lives... some people can't handle it, most of us do some way or another. She was a just a kid, with a lot of problems... and they poured fuel on the fire for their own entertainment. This isnt a falling out of friends, this isnt standard HS bullshit. This an adult tormenting a child, and the child is dead. I personally cant see how it could be legally actionable, but their is blood on their hands to some extent. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

11-17-2007, 09:34 AM	#18 (permalink)
Anxst Condensing fact from the vapor of nuance. Location: Madison, WI	I don't think the parenting was too bad, based on what I read. You can't monitor every word that enters the kid's airspace at all times. I also think the article sounds pretty biased against Myspace. The adults who did this could have just as easily done it with notes in the 80's, or false gossip in the 1600's, or whatever. Information disseminates, it's the nature of the beast. The fault, here, lies with the adults who chose to belittle a depressed little girl to the point that she killed herself because their daughter didn't like her anymore. What bastards. __________________ Don't mind me. I'm just releasing the insanity pressure from my headvalves.

11-17-2007, 07:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Chiyachan Tilted Location: Swindon	Some people are really screwed up in the head. It's sickening.

11-17-2007, 08:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jenna Psycho Location: Wisconsin	Wow... I can't believe that a grown adult would do something like that.

11-17-2007, 08:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	That's pretty fucked up. I can't believe there aren't going to be any criminal charges against the people that ultimately caused this girl to commit suicide.

11-17-2007, 08:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	That's terrible. We have all heard the saying "kids can be so cruel" but an adult playing head games with a kid? Unbelievable. Although there is some responsibility on Megan's parents for allowing her to have a Myspace account in violation of Myspace rules. But whats to say a month later when she would have been in compliance with the rules to have an account that the same thing wouldn't have happened. Messing with kids heads is wrong no matter what age you are and a grown up certainly should know better.

11-17-2007, 08:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	No clue what you could call it honestly. I just don't think they should be able to get away with what they caused is all. I know they had no intention of getting this girl to kill herself, but damn.

11-17-2007, 09:01 AM	#12 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Boy that's sad. Megan was a ticking time bomb. If it wasn't some asshole on myspace, it would have been someone or something else.

11-17-2007, 10:01 AM	#21 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	She was close to the edge from what we know. A coward and bully pushed her over from what we know. The whole business makes me want to sign up for the "Human Beings for Voluntary Extinction Group" Blechh.

11-17-2007, 10:40 AM	#25 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Blame is really tricky in this situation. Obviously some of the blame lies with the tricksters, but it's difficult for me to lay the blame on the parents. What kind of parent actually monitors their child's use of myspace? What kind of parent takes therir daughter to a councelor when they're concerned? That's insanely good parenting. Most parents don't make time to keep an eye on their myspace kids, to the detriment of the children. This really just strikes me as a case of "that's really sad" or "those were really unfortunate circumstances".

11-17-2007, 11:26 AM	#29 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	Punishment..Retaliation. Revenge.. Justice. The laws are made by humans and humans are emotional creatures. Tell me you have never seen a judge pass down judgement without any emotion or revenge in his eyes. Laws are rife with emotional baggage.

11-17-2007, 11:41 AM	#34 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	I'm not seeing them as bad parents. Teenagers are emotional, angst ridden individuals. They act out in all kinds of ways. This particular child had even more issues then the normal teen, and perhaps her parents thought she was overcoming a lot of them. I think 70% of the blame lies with the parent who was posting the crap on myspace and the other 30% goes to the child and the child's parents. Maybe some of us have forgotten how confusing it is to be a teen?

11-17-2007, 11:50 AM	#35 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I'm not at all surprised at this. I've met some parents who are pretty alarmingly immature. Actually, now that I think about it, we had an incident with the mother of one of my daughter's friends who decided she didn't like my daughter. I can't remember why now...but the woman had a MySpace page with pictures of herself at anime conventions dressed up like a 14-year-old. It was really pathetic. She was like - 35 years old. She said some things about my daughter on MySpace. We just blew it off. But the one time I met her face to face after that she wouldn't look me in the eye. It's fucking scary, but we have a lot of people who just never grow up. And that said, I tend to agree with will and analog. It's a fucked up situation, but not much that can (or should) be done about it. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce Last edited by mixedmedia; 11-17-2007 at 11:51 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

11-17-2007, 11:53 AM	#36 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	jesus, what a fucked up situation. this seems redundant. i dont know. 1. particular: i detest myspace. maybe its the genuinely ugly interface design. maybe its the importance that such a shallow space has assumed. maybe it's rupert murdoch. maybe it's the fact that it is SO fucking stupid. such spaces seem to encourage more stupidity. it also encourages lying, which we call "manipulation of identity or persona"... nothing seems to me more tedious that stupid people lying to each other. 2. general: one question it raises--apart from the particulars of the story, about which i am having some trouble making a judgment simply because we really dont know enough about megan to be able to ascribe blame or explain much--one question this raises concerns the nature of internet communication, the curious way in which a 2-d persona gets filled in by others with projections, the way in which these projections replace the actual 3-d person behind the persona, the extent to which these projections enable irresponsibility, the extent to which they make responsibility impossible nearly. you dont really know who you are interacting with. you dont have any cues that'd indicate when you might have gone too far. internet communication is in many ways the pure expression of capitalist social relations: we make ourselves into things and treat others as things. within this general repetition of capitalist social relations, we pretend that we dissent. there is something structurally fucked up about all of it. so for example you can abstract yourself from the possibility that what you write inflicts pain: you can turn it into a parlor game because the target of your unspooling of whatever sadistic impulse you allow to unspool is an abstraction, not a person. you can enjoy what in 3-d would be sadism: the replacement of a human being with an abstraction based on your own fantasies enables the erasure of any ethical consideration that would get in the way of such in 3-d. think about it: you see parallel activity here: think about the way in which the community deals or does not deal with those who might have deep psychological issues who turn up. collectively, we cant even tell if these issues are real or if they follow from a process of persona construction, whether what gets written is mimetic or if it is fiction. this because despite what you might prefer to pretend obtains about what people write, there is no agreement AT ALL about that relation. so how is anyone supposed to make a judgment about how to communicate if you cant even figure out the status of what you are reading? self-limitation. but the abstraction that shapes all communication over the net militates against that. so when you let go and allow your inner asshole to come out to play, you can pretend that nothing is at stake. from the above, it should be obvious that i find netcommunication to be quite alienating, frankly. i write stuff here, but in general am acutely aware that you dont really know me on the basis of it. you write stuff here and no-one knows you on that basis. they know fragments of you. they fill in the rest with projections. so do you with reference to everyone else. but there is a community because of the degree to which the parameters (the rules and assumptions) that shape tfp reinforce our inclinations to want to see in it a community. because we share at one level or another the desire to see a community, we act as though there is one. so there is one. nothing like that obtains on myspace. that is why myspace is a cesspool. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

11-17-2007, 12:19 PM	#39 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	Thank you roachboy person for the profound statements that I believe cut to the heart of this matter.

11-17-2007, 12:23 PM	#40 (permalink)
analog Banned	Oh, and just to add: Hypothetically, if the "harassment" law had already existed, she'd still be dead, and I don't think it would even apply here. The point is, she wasn't harassed over time. She wasn't slowly and methodically mentally beaten into submission and self-loathing. They didn't stalk her and feed her negativity and mentally torture her over a period of time. She wasn't "broken down". The messages that seemingly lead to her ending her own life came all at once, on one day, read in one online session. You'd have a difficult time of proving "harassment" in court when it's based off of what is essentially one relatively short conversation (the back and forth messages).