The Last Supper - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ngdawg · 10-28-2007, 09:53 AM

From the Assocated Press:

Quote:

MILAN, Italy (Oct. 28) - Can't get to Milan to see Leonardo Da Vinci's masterpiece "The Last Supper?" As of Saturday, all you need is an Internet connection. Officials put online an image of the "Last Supper" at 16 billion pixels - 1,600 times stronger than the images taken with the typical 10 million pixel digital camera.

The high resolution will allow experts to examine details of the 15th century wall painting that they otherwise could not - including traces of drawings Leonardo put down before painting.
The high-resolution allows viewers to look at details as though they were inches from the art work, in contrast to regular photographs, which become grainy as you zoom in, said curator Alberto Artioli.

"You can see how Leonardo made the cups transparent, something you can't ordinarily see," said Artioli. "You can also note the state of degradation the painting is in."

Besides allowing experts and art-lovers to study the masterpiece from home, Artioli said the project provides an historical document of how the painting appears in 2007, which will be valuable to future generations of art historians.

Although there appeared to be problems with the Web site late Saturday, it was accessible earlier in day.

The work, in Milan's Church of Santa Maria delle Grazie, was restored in a painstaking effort that wrapped up in 1999 — a project aimed at reversing half a millennium of damage to the famed artwork. Leonard painted the "Last Supper" dry, so the painting did not cleave to the surface in the fresco style, meaning it is more delicate and subject to wear.

"Over the years it has been subjected to bombardments; it was used as a stall by Napoleon," Artioli said. The restoration removed 500 years of dirt while also removing previous restoration works that masked Leonardo's own work.

Even those who get to Milan have a hard time gaining admission to see the "Last Supper." Visits have been made more difficult by measures to protect it. Twenty-five visitors are admitted every 15 minutes to see the painting for a total of about 320,000 visitors a year. Visitors must pass through a filtration system to help reduce the work's exposure to dust and pollutants.

"The demand is three or four times higher, but we can't accommodate it because of efforts to preserve the painting," Artioli said.

And the painting in detail:
DaVinci's Last Supper

I find the fascination with DaVinci to almost equal that of celebrities. I've been reading all kinds of theories behind his work, ie; The Mona Lisa was a 'self-portrait'. A technology expert from AT&T a few years back matched markers in DaVinci's self portrait and the Mona Lisa, declaring he had to have used his own face for the painting. "The Last Supper" has been scrutinized since before the restoration on it began.
Was the man a master? Probably, but no more so than Rembrandt, IMHO, whose work doesn't get this kind of research. Did the book, "The DaVinci Code" feed this fascination? I believe so.
One of the reasons I did not pursue art in earnest fresh out of high school was that Art History was a required subject the first two years. Learning about the art movements and styles is one thing, but delving into the artists themselves seems to me a waste still today. Preserve masterpieces, etc., but art, to me, is for art's sake, not science's.
Having said that, that mega-sized file is pretty cool to look at.

Ustwo · 10-28-2007, 10:16 AM

Da Vinci's is amazing not just from his art but his over all works. I'm far more impressed with his inventions than anything else.

If there was one person in history I could talk to, he would be on the short list for sure.

Pretty cool picture but the site is painfully slow.

Plan9 · 10-28-2007, 10:18 AM

Guy was truly touched by something not too many of us get these days.

ngdawg · 10-28-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Da Vinci's is amazing not just from his art but his over all works. I'm far more impressed with his inventions than anything else.

If there was one person in history I could talk to, he would be on the short list for sure.

Pretty cool picture but the site is painfully slow.

I would have to agree about his inventions-to illustrate a prototype for a helicopter centuries before it's realized is astounding. Perhaps all this research into his art is because of his inventions? *shrugs*

Ustwo · 10-28-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

I would have to agree about his inventions-to illustrate a prototype for a helicopter centuries before it's realized is astounding. Perhaps all this research into his art is because of his inventions? *shrugs*

Most likely. Da Vinci was a great mind, perhaps one of the greatest. His art I think just serves as a more visible reminder.

World's King · 10-28-2007, 03:44 PM

Everybody that wants there picture taken get on this side of the table...

Willravel · 10-28-2007, 04:12 PM

Who's the guy in the middle?

It's an interesting painting, and the quality is undeniable.

casual user · 10-28-2007, 05:09 PM

that song is freaking annoying

snowy · 10-28-2007, 05:38 PM

Given what other artists were producing at the time DaVinci produced his greatest works, DaVinci is a true master. No doubt about it. He is one of the greatest minds to have walked this earth.

There is a reason why my town is host to a DaVinci Days Festival, where art, science, and technology combine. It's fabulous fun in the middle of summer, especially the kinetic sculpture races. It's also a great honor to the mind that spawned so many great ideas and images for us to enjoy.

aberkok · 10-28-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

Preserve masterpieces, etc., but art, to me, is for art's sake, not science's.

There was a time when the arts and sciences weren't really looked at as opposing forces. I think a lot of artists are afraid of getting too intellectual and analytical about their work and this feeds the division.

I don't really know much about DaVinci, but I think it's important to apply technology to the understanding of the arts, and as many here will attest, to the creation of the arts. I listened to a really cool CBC show with a lecture about how visual artists back in the day used to know how to make their own paints or at least knew the composition. Today, we buy paints at a store, and while we have access to a great many colours, there can be something missing by not being so in tune with your materials.

As for thinking Rembrandt is more deserving of notoriety, dawg, I think anyone who knows anything about their field has strong opinions of who gets the short end of the popularity stick. And Hollywood is usually responsible for perpetuating the hierarchy of "genius."

ngdawg · 10-28-2007, 06:58 PM

In my dealings with artists across the country, most..probably all but one...are more into the aesthetics of their craft. The one exception is an artist friend in California who teaches college anatomy as it pertains to drawing the human body. Part of his courses involves 'escorche', where students must build a scaled down human from the skeleton outward.
I will say, though, that the artists I've met and befriended through the years are among the most intelligent people I've known, but, like any other profession or craft, there are flakes and there are geniuses.
DaVinci, inarguably, was a genius...I just somehow feel the scrutiny applied to his art is imbalanced against his innovations and notes and wonder if somehow the researchers feel they can figure out his mental process by scrutinizing his paintings or what they're trying to find.
I mention Rembrandt as a form of reference-his work is genius, but I don't know that he was an innovator or inventor outside of his artistry. Personally, I'm a Vermeer fan.

Menoman · 10-28-2007, 07:45 PM

It's also said that people like da vinci, beethoven, einstein, and many others who are now looked on today as geniuses/brilliant minds, had aspergers autism.

Just a little note for those who may not have heard but also enjoy da vinci as I do.

MSD · 10-28-2007, 07:59 PM

I haven't taken a good look at the painting in years, and I never realized how badly damaged it was. Imagine what it would have looked like before it was vandalized and underwent all those attempts at restoration.

Ustwo · 10-28-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menoman

It's also said that people like da vinci, beethoven, einstein, and many others who are now looked on today as geniuses/brilliant minds, had aspergers autism.

Just a little note for those who may not have heard but also enjoy da vinci as I do.

Based on the broad interests of Da Vinci and Einstein, I don't think either had asperger's syndrome.

Baraka_Guru · 10-28-2007, 08:19 PM

The painting aside, I'm astounded at the detail of the digital imagery. Especially since I don't know if I'll ever get to Milan. There is so much to Da Vinci that interests me, I really should read more about him.

Elphaba · 10-29-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Who's the guy in the middle?

It's an interesting painting, and the quality is undeniable.

The "guy" to the left of Jesus?

This is a great find, nwdawg.

flstf · 10-29-2007, 10:46 AM

My wife and I visited Milan years ago and saw the painting. It was/is in really bad shape. He tried something new, painting directly on wet plaster or something and it flakes off easily.

I remember when we visited, the little church it is in is out of the way and somewhat plain. We just walked in and went right up to the painting where they had a couple of restorers working on scaffolds. I thought they should have had it well guarded or something.

Ustwo · 10-29-2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

My wife and I visited Milan years ago and saw the painting. It was/is in really bad shape. He tried something new, painting directly on wet plaster or something and it flakes off easily.

I remember when we visited, the little church it is in is out of the way and somewhat plain. We just walked in and went right up to the painting where they had a couple of restorers working on scaffolds. I thought they should have had it well guarded or something.

From what I recall he invented his own paint to try to do it.

kutulu · 10-29-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

Did the book, "The DaVinci Code" feed this fascination? I believe so.

The book was published in 2003. Da Vinci died in 1519, I'm sure the book is the reason why people are interested in him.

ngdawg · 10-29-2007, 11:40 AM

I said 'feed it'...the fascination itself has always been there and I suspect always will. But things, other than the continuing restoration of The Last Supper, have been pretty quiet regarding DaVinci; the heightened interest in the past 4-5 years with both that work and the renewed speculations about the Mona Lisa, as well as a few other paintings of his, can probably be partially blamed on the book and all the hype that followed it.

WarMoney · 11-01-2007, 12:54 PM

Whoa. Jesus has TWO glasses of wine. Or he is about to take that chics.

10-28-2007, 10:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Da Vinci's is amazing not just from his art but his over all works. I'm far more impressed with his inventions than anything else. If there was one person in history I could talk to, he would be on the short list for sure. Pretty cool picture but the site is painfully slow. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-28-2007, 10:18 AM	#3 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Guy was truly touched by something not too many of us get these days. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-28-2007, 03:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	Everybody that wants there picture taken get on this side of the table... __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

10-28-2007, 05:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Given what other artists were producing at the time DaVinci produced his greatest works, DaVinci is a true master. No doubt about it. He is one of the greatest minds to have walked this earth. There is a reason why my town is host to a DaVinci Days Festival, where art, science, and technology combine. It's fabulous fun in the middle of summer, especially the kinetic sculpture races. It's also a great honor to the mind that spawned so many great ideas and images for us to enjoy. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

10-28-2007, 08:19 PM	#15 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	The painting aside, I'm astounded at the detail of the digital imagery. Especially since I don't know if I'll ever get to Milan. There is so much to Da Vinci that interests me, I really should read more about him. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

10-28-2007, 04:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Who's the guy in the middle? It's an interesting painting, and the quality is undeniable.

10-28-2007, 05:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
casual user Crazy Location: everywhere and nowhere	that song is freaking annoying

10-28-2007, 06:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	In my dealings with artists across the country, most..probably all but one...are more into the aesthetics of their craft. The one exception is an artist friend in California who teaches college anatomy as it pertains to drawing the human body. Part of his courses involves 'escorche', where students must build a scaled down human from the skeleton outward. I will say, though, that the artists I've met and befriended through the years are among the most intelligent people I've known, but, like any other profession or craft, there are flakes and there are geniuses. DaVinci, inarguably, was a genius...I just somehow feel the scrutiny applied to his art is imbalanced against his innovations and notes and wonder if somehow the researchers feel they can figure out his mental process by scrutinizing his paintings or what they're trying to find. I mention Rembrandt as a form of reference-his work is genius, but I don't know that he was an innovator or inventor outside of his artistry. Personally, I'm a Vermeer fan.

10-28-2007, 07:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I haven't taken a good look at the painting in years, and I never realized how badly damaged it was. Imagine what it would have looked like before it was vandalized and underwent all those attempts at restoration.

10-29-2007, 10:46 AM	#17 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	My wife and I visited Milan years ago and saw the painting. It was/is in really bad shape. He tried something new, painting directly on wet plaster or something and it flakes off easily. I remember when we visited, the little church it is in is out of the way and somewhat plain. We just walked in and went right up to the painting where they had a couple of restorers working on scaffolds. I thought they should have had it well guarded or something.

10-29-2007, 11:40 AM	#20 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I said 'feed it'...the fascination itself has always been there and I suspect always will. But things, other than the continuing restoration of The Last Supper, have been pretty quiet regarding DaVinci; the heightened interest in the past 4-5 years with both that work and the renewed speculations about the Mona Lisa, as well as a few other paintings of his, can probably be partially blamed on the book and all the hype that followed it.

11-01-2007, 12:54 PM	#21 (permalink)
WarMoney Upright Location: Northern Virginia	Whoa. Jesus has TWO glasses of wine. Or he is about to take that chics.