squeeeb

on the news i saw a story about a woman who decorated her house for halloween with a monster hanging out front. the naacp and a local reverand claimed it was racist because the "ghoul" had dark skin and it suggested hanging black people. i tried to find the story by googling it and apparently there was more than one case of this.

now, c'mon black people. not all white people are racist. quit looking to be offended, stop being paranoid. it's friggin halloween. ok, if it wasn't halloween and there was a dark skinned dummy haning, yeah, you have something. if it is halloween and the "hanging ghoul" had an afro and clearly resembled a black person, then yeah, it's racist.

i know there is still racism going on in parts of the us. i know there are racists in every town (both white and black) but, how about instead of jumping on the "you are a racist" platform, you look at the circumstance, use some deductive reasoning, and then determine if the dummy hanging is a racist symbol or just an attempt at being spooky.

oh, here is a link to one of the stories. i'm not sure this is the one i saw on the news...

http://www.theheraldbulletin.com/loc...280191707.html

[edit] this is the story here, found it

http://www.newstimes.com/news/ci_7258153

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sapiens

I don't know the specifics of the story, but it sounds like it's not "black people", rather it is the NAACP and a local reverend.

Ustwo

black people need to lighten up





There is a whole sub-group who would have an empty hand if they couldn't keep playing the race card. Its best to just ignore them and mock them.

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squeeeb

i over generalized, but the local reverend and the naacp members were black, so they are the "black people" i'm talking about.

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abaya

And you want someone to actually take this post seriously?... Wow. How about *you* not assume that "black people" (all of them, apparently) are looking to be offended and are paranoid, and are incapable of using deductive reasoning? Maybe instead, just state exactly what the facts are, which is that a particular group/individual are acting in that manner, and not "all black people?" Amazing logic there.

You posted this while I was posting... Yeah, that's beyond excuse, sorry. Especially when you are telling "black people" to calm down and not "over-generalize" about white people being racist.

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squeeeb

i'm sorry, did i offend you? you seemed to get awfully steamed quickly. it seems you immediatly assumed i was talking to every black person in america (which i wasn't) and i belive black people are incapable of using deductive reasoning (which i don't).

and this is what i'm talking about.

see...there is no difference between "black people" and "white" people. none. all humans. but there are many on both sides who WANT, desperately crave, there to be a difference, and take every opportunity to show how the "other side" is treating this imagined difference. normally i ignore this, but when it affects halloween, then i get upset.

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Plan9

But I'm a starbelly sneetch!

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squeeeb

ok, we are all humans, the same, EXCEPT for crompsin.

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Willravel

I think that would have been a much better thread name. "The NAACP and this minister need to lighten up". I'd agree. It's oversensitivity, imho.

My family was enslaved by Romans a while back, but the thing is that people of german decent don't have to worry about a glass ceiling anymore. Or really ever. They don't have to worry about being more likely to be in poverty or in prison because of their ethnicity. I've only once been treated in a racist manner, and it was a result of what I could clearly see was resentment from being the victim of racism all his life. Let's just be honest: we're not all equal yet. We're getting there, and a lot of wonderful people out there are helping, but we're not there yet. So for now, I'm cool with a little oversensitivity. If my halloween decorations were offending people, which is not my intention, I'd give them the benefit of explaining my intention (scaring helpless children). If they were still offended, I'd take it down. I hardly think it's worth it to have a battle of halloween decorations.

abaya

Word, Will.

Squeeb, I get angry pretty fast when people make really huge, sweeping generalizations without realizing how powerful their words really are. I mean, it almost seemed like your title assumed that only white people visit this forum, since your title (and OP) did not leave any room for "black people" to stand out as individuals. You say this... ... but what else was I to assume, given the words you used? What else can I go on, other than what you yourself put forth in words? You very clearly said "black people," without exception, until someone pointed it out to you a few posts later.

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mixedmedia

I think your thread was titled improperly, as well.

And it's not as if the recent 'noose incidents' in the news and racial tensions in this town (which are mentioned in the article) have nothing to do with it.

I think some white people over-react to the over-reactions of some black people.

That might be a better thread title.

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abaya

I'm an anthropologist, okay... I have argued till I was blue in the face, both here and IRL, that race is a cultural construction based on phenotypical differences based on clines. Race is not real, in the biological sense. However, it is VERY real in a socio-cultural sense, and that is where this is a problem. You're right that there is no difference between black and white people... but the problem is that they are *still* treated very differently. That's not a figment of anyone's imagination. And unfortunately, it's a lot easier to say "I don't see any differences" when you're in the majority. It's not an imagined difference, not yet. I wish it were, believe me... very much. (Or, AKA... "what Will said earlier")

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World's King

White people need to lighten the fuck up...



Do something that can be considered racist and people will think you're racist. When someone points it out to you. Don't get all up in arms. We get it. You don't want everyone to know that you're actually racist... on the inside. You're the type of person that looks around the room at a nice restaurant and says "Wow, there's a black couple over there... I bet they feel out of place."

You also get surprised when you see a white person working the fryer at McDonald's. You think to yourself, "Hmm... I wonder why they didn't go to college?"

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snowy

I think after the incident in Jena and so on, the country is very sensitive to this sort of thing. Recently, a student at our university led an effort to "black out Reser" (our stadium) during a football game by encouraging students to paint themselves black. The student paper printed an article about it three days before the game, yet no one made the connection to blackface until after the fact. I can't say I blame them for not making the connection; we've done such a good job of removing that particular cultural reference that a lot of people my age have no idea what blackface is. I should also note that the vice-provost of student affairs--a black man--approved of the Black Out Reser campaign. It didn't occur to him either. I think this is a case of oversensitivity.

I'm pretty sure it's going to blow up in another couple of weeks when the nooses start showing up. You see, a traditional symbol of the Civil War game between Oregon State and the University of Oregon is the opposing school's mascot hanging by a noose. Ducks and Beavers all over Oregon are hung by nooses prior to the game. Perhaps it won't happen this year, with the sensitivity to the noose.

We're not all equal yet, but I think people are trying to see racial overtones where there are none.

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Jenna

The title of this forum is really off, and while I think there were some over-reactions in the situation, I wouldn't say the NAACP was that off. I didn't get to see a picture of the ghoul, what if it did in fact look like a black person hanging?

I may be over-reacting like the NAACP, but I think it's completely wrong that there's "Terrorist" or Muslim masks for people to wear on Halloween that look like they're mocking them, or making fun of them.

abaya

I agree that the NAACP and the reverend involved in this issue are trying to see racial overtones where there *may be* none. I don't like that brand of oversensitivity any more than you (or the OP) do.

I still see no reason to address "black people" as one unit that needs to "lighten up." If I had received a paper in my anthropology intro course with that title and those terms... yes, I would feel justified in taking that student to the cleaners. I would be derelict in my job as an anthropologist and educator if I did not address that kind of writing directly. The fact that this is a public forum does not really change my reaction.

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Glory's Sun

How about "everyone needs to lighten the fuck up"? People will always see whatever they want to see. If the ghoul was meant to be racist then it was meant to be racist. While it's not in agreement with me, it's well within that person's right to be one. If it's not, then the reverand and NAACP should have just asked the person what it was. Better yet, they should have asked before making a big stink out of it.

People are always looking to start some stupid shit. Seriously, just let people live their lives and worry about yourself.. it's easier that way.

Cynthetiq

Chopper says: HTFU!



Harden the fuck up!

Let people show how they really are. If they are meaning to be insensitive pricks let that show for the what it is. But to sit there and take people to task for things that they have the right to do so is just absurd.

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Ustwo

Yep, some people need to lighten up.

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flat5

"decorated her house for halloween with a monster hanging out front"

If the "monster" looked like a black man it is in terrible taste. Any day of the year.

Ustwo

See the picture above.

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abaya

Huh, funny that the 2nd article has a totally different story and picture (and this one looks pretty bad to me) than the one you posted a picture from, at least the one I am seeing... and the article says "As a result of the complaints, the Mounajed and Cervero on Sunday applied some white paint to the dummy's head - but at that point the furor had grown." So clearly, the original hanging man was not made to look white, if they had to paint it...
http://www.newstimes.com/portlet/art...3&startImage=1

You know, I'd love to apply this in several areas of my life, and probably even in the case of this Halloween decoration thing, if I knew more about it.

But not when it comes to the use of language to classify an entire group of people as being "this way." I'd answer to anyone else going apeshit on me, too, if I was writing like that... in fact, I'd hope they would. As an educated person/academic especially (I'm glad to see Watson has retired for the same reason, as roachboy pointed out in another thread), but also as an educator, hell, a human being... no, it's unacceptable to me. And I don't need to be "serene" about that one.

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Glory's Sun

Well my statement was directed to the actual story here.. not the misuse of language..

Rekna

Next time I see a skeleton hanging i'm going to yell racism since its a white guy hanging!

roachboy

i agree with abaya for the most part.

i dont see the basis for any--any---of the "toughen up" or "harden the fuck up" comments to the thread.

ustwo's comments are, of course, off the edge somewhere....

it is apparently something of a badge of honor in rightwing land, the ability to be a clod (laughing at people who see racism as a problem? how does that work?) and be jolly about being a clod at the same time.

its like chewing gum and waving at a passing zeppelin, i suppose.

"hullo there zeppelin. i am doing two things at once."

because of course what matters in a complex world is what you are doing. and it is obvious that any given group of zeppelin passengers only books their flight so they can check out what you are doing from the air.

so what really matters about this situation in ct is:

how does it effect me?
will it disrupt my costume choices?
does it mean i cant trick or treat in black face?
does it mean that i cant make a faux-lynching part of my "scary" household decorations?

well, if this sort of thing causes you to be at all self-conscious about halloween, then the conclusion is obvious: you are the ones really affected by all this. *you* are the real victims--and the history of racism in america and the responses that folk might have to it matter only to the extent that they fuck with your enjoyment of halloween.

from such enlightened viewpoints come threads like this.

way to go.

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abaya

Okay, good to know.

Rekna...

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squeeeb

any day except for halloween. then, no matter what it looks like, it's a monster. not a black or white or any color man. monsters come in all colors.


as for the title of the thread, i like it. it is an "over the top" generalization that i assumed (wrongly) most people would see the sarcasm in, and attract them enough to read the post and comment. i rarely, if ever, expect to or want to be taken seriously, i just like starting threads and making people talk, occasionally entertaining them with stupidity. the fact that i, *me*, someone with no authority, a nobody, can cause such emotion by typing a few words is incredible. if i typed "the world is going to end next week" as a title for something to do with an end of the world cult, i doubt anyone would prepare to die (don't worry, as far as i know, the world will not end next week). it's kinda neat to see everyone's reaction.

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blahblah454

I find it odd that a white ghoul can be hung but not a black one. I hate all racism, and it goes both ways. I find that people are so concerned with it now that it goes to extremes. Anything can be done to a white person and its always okay, but if anything happens involving ANYONE of any other culture than its racism, and that in itself is racism.
This post might even be considered racist. But me personally, I hate everyone equally, and love everyone equally. I don't care where you come from, if you are a fucker to me then you are a fucker, if you are nice then you are nice, easy as that. I have friends that are Muslims, Indians, black skinned straight from Africa, black people who have never been outside of north America, Filipinos.
I can't stand people who point fingers simply because someone looks a little different or believes in a different religion. AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!

abaya

Gee, glad you're entertained.

FWIW, I pretty much take everything that people write here seriously, until proven not-serious (or posted in Nonsense or Humor, obviously). It's my SOP. I'd much rather err in that direction than the other way.

And I still don't think your title it's a joking matter, even if you intended it that way (which I don't particularly believe, but whatever).

I don't think anyone here is saying that.

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ShaniFaye

did you actually look at the first story (which is the picture Ustwo posted), they look pretty white to me....and people still had a stroke about it

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*Nikki*

A proper way to do it would have been to make the monster Asian.

Then who would have come to his rescue?

blahblah454

Yes I did. But stuff like this is always going to happen. It doesn't matter what is done, someone will find something to complain about.

Willravel

NAAAP?

filtherton

All you fucking jews need to knock this shit off.

ShaniFaye

then I dont understand what you said right here

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Glory's Sun

Thanks.. I needed a good laugh

Ustwo

Thats the picture that came up while I was searching, my guess is it was a stock photo that had nothing to do with this.

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xepherys

Hmmm, interesting responses. How about this instead... who the hell cares? If someone is racist, let them be racist. Everyone is intolerant of some subgroup of people. I myself hate stupid people. Passionately! If you hate blacks, or whites, or asians, good for you. If you hate women or men or children, good for you!!! If you hate athletes or models or actors, friggin' awesome!

Why is is that hate is such a horrible thing? It's part of human nature. Sure, it's a darker, bad part, but it's still a part.

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ShaniFaye

Its the picture in the first article posted in the OP

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abaya

Well, I'm all for free-hatin', you know (really, I am... I hate lots of people, just ask ktspktsp) but the problem is when hate/fear is used to justify particular policies that have very tangible repercussions. That goes beyond people's "right to hate" (ideologically) and starts to infringe on other people's right to live as equal human beings. This is a universal problem across human history and cultures, but that doesn't mean we should pat it on the back and say, "That's alright." This is something that must evolve in human thought/behavior, if we are going to survive and adapt as a species.

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