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Old 10-26-2007, 01:33 PM   #121 (permalink)
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I mentioned nothing of (Perceived) racial superiority.
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Old 10-26-2007, 02:34 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
Is being prejudice really a bad thing? Or is it human nature? Coming to a preconceived notion about something is simply your mind making an educated guess based on collected data. If I'm at work and someone calls and says their printer doesn't work I immediately think to myself that a print job is stuck in the printer queue. Am I prejudice towards the printer by thinking that it's queue is jammed? I don't even know how the word prejudice came to be negative. It's basically another word for educated guess based on observation.
This is a slippery slope and a mismatched comparison. A printer queue isn't a black man walking down the street. Not all prejudice is immoral, but a lot of it is. Consider this prejudice: All women are sluts. Also, an educated guess isn't quite the same as being prejudiced.
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Old 10-26-2007, 04:06 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
It's basically another word for educated guess based on observation.
I don't know about that. I've known plenty of bigots- most of them weren't exactly educated enough on the subjects of their bigotry to make educated guesses.

Is "god hates fags" an educated guess?
Is "all black people believe in ghosts" an educated guess?
Is "all black men have huge cocks" and educated guess?

I think that what you call educated guessing, i see as intellectual laziness.

In any case, when dealing with actual people, i have found that it is generally in my best interest to treat people as individuals instead of making educated guesses about them based on superficial details.
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Old 10-26-2007, 04:29 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtherton
Is "god hates fags" an educated guess?
Is "all black people believe in ghosts" an educated guess?
Is "all black men have huge cocks" and educated guess?
No, but neither is "god hates black ghost fags because they have huge cocks". It's a fact. I asked him. He's kind of a jerk that way.
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Old 10-26-2007, 04:34 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mrklixx
No, but neither is "god hates black ghost fags because they have huge cocks". It's a fact. I asked him. He's kind of a jerk that way.
Well, if god tells you specifically than of course it's not a guess. NO DOOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-26-2007, 04:46 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
*cues that silly Slayer song entitled Guilty of Being White*
i was gonna call you on that, as minor threat did it first, but i googled and slayer did indeed cover it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
Is being prejudice really a bad thing? [cut for brevity] It's basically another word for educated guess based on observation.
it's not really another word for educated guess, that would be like...assumption. prejudice is "A preconceived preference or idea", or more commonly, the pejorative meanings such as "An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts." and " "Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion."

is it a bad thing? well, for the irrational hatred of a group, yeah, i think it's not a healthy productive thing and fits in the "bad thing" category. for the "preconceived preference or idea" then no, it's not bad.

i have a prejudice toward red wine, i don't like white wine, even though there are probably tasty white wines out there. i don't see that as a bad thing.

i'm not trying to put words in your mouth or tell you what you meant so i will only assume you were leaning toward "preconcieved preference" version of prejudice.
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Last edited by squeeeb; 10-26-2007 at 04:56 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:15 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Read my post again if you're not sure of what I meant by it. I state clearly that prejudice isn't negative. Racism is negative. Prejudice is a word that is now negative in our society even though its definition is quite literally gathering data about something and making an educated guess.

Thinking a black thug on the street is a criminal isn't racist because most black thugs on the street are criminals. It might be prejudice but how is that a bad thing? When I see a black thug on the street, should I say, "look at that lawyer?" I don't have data saying that he's a lawyer. I do have data that give him a huge chance of being a criminal. So me using data that correllates with a person is immoral?

BTW I ask anyone who thinks this thread isn't going anywhere to take another look. This is a huge issue in our world and talking about it helps everyone understand their own feelings and point of views better. I'd rather be talking about issues like this than Britney's custody battle.

Last edited by Lasereth; 10-26-2007 at 05:18 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:50 PM   #128 (permalink)
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I know my Slayer, dude. Minor Threat isn't really in my palette. Yet.

...

Thread: I get the feeling that Europe doesn't suffer from this degree of idiocy.
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Old 10-26-2007, 06:38 PM   #129 (permalink)
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crompsin: you're wrong about europe. go ask north africans (tunisians, morrocans) how they feel walking around in france. i think in some ways, europe tends to be more strongly nationalist rather than racist, given the closer proximity of the various countries...but they still find ridiculous ways to hate each other.

i almost wrote something earlier in this thread, but deleted the post. all i can say is that i find myself echoing skafe when i read this: we did this with a frat party last year that had some sort of offensive halloween decorations, and the conclusions are basically the same. i don't have the energy or time to get intensely involved in this particular discussion...i do think, however, that when hanging things by nooses in the united states, one might pay particular attention to the potential racial overtones. whatever...best of luck with it.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:07 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
crompsin: you're wrong about europe. go ask north africans (tunisians, morrocans) how they feel walking around in france. i think in some ways, europe tends to be more strongly nationalist
Ah, nationalism. Yeah, I was going to suggest as much... but I don't have any experience with it nor do I really trust much on the old Intarweb to educate me about things that are so often skewed. I kept my mouth shut. Thank you for educating me with your experience. It saddens me, however.

I do feel that the US has zero sense of nationalism in comparison to Europe simply based on the proximity issue you mentioned. I feel that something has to fill the "Us Vs. Them" void that the US has without a tangible sense of nationalism (no, those dumbass Power of Pride stickers don't really grab me)... and racism is that disgusting monster. Example: Illegal aliens (Quick! Blame all the Mexicans!) is our current sticky issue.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:54 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
Thread: I get the feeling that Europe doesn't suffer from this degree of idiocy.
You'd be wrong. Europe, as a whole, is more openly racist than any other place in the world.
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Old 10-26-2007, 08:00 PM   #132 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
Ah, nationalism. Yeah, I was going to suggest as much... but I don't have any experience with it nor do I really trust much on the old Intarweb to educate me about things that are so often skewed. I kept my mouth shut. Thank you for educating me with your experience. It saddens me, however.

I do feel that the US has zero sense of nationalism in comparison to Europe simply based on the proximity issue you mentioned. I feel that something has to fill the "Us Vs. Them" void that the US has without a tangible sense of nationalism (no, those dumbass Power of Pride stickers don't really grab me)... and racism is that disgusting monster. Example: Illegal aliens (Quick! Blame all the Mexicans!) is our current sticky issue.
Yes because in the days of the cold war, racism disappeared and we all focused on those damn commies

I think your theory doesn't quite cut it.

IL is right, the people in the US almost go to comical lengths to not appear racist. Other nations seem to have no problem with it.
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Old 10-26-2007, 08:18 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
You'd be wrong. Europe, as a whole, is more openly racist than any other place in the world.
I never saw it outside of France and there it wasn't anywhere near as bad as the US south. Lynching because of race would be unheard of in Western Europe.
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Old 10-26-2007, 08:25 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Okay. Where is the hot-hot proof that Europe is a den of racists?

Any super-duper examples of bigotry in action? I wanna see it, smell it.

Rumors? Conjecture? Bullshit? I like to talk as much as anybody, but I typically qualify my substandard babble with opinion disclaimers like "I think" and "I feel" so as to not appear as witty as Ben Stein (who knows pretty much everything and who is probably racist too, right?)

Where da proof at, yo?

...

I find it hard to believe that Europe is as bad as the US. I mean... we're so good at everything that is destroying the future of mankind and the planet.

*gets run over by a H2 with confederate flag sticker*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Yes because in the days of the cold war, racism disappeared and we all focused on those damn commies
"Us Vs. Them": Absolutely nothing to do with commies, bro. I am referring to the innate human hierarchical nature. Big boxes. Little boxes. Totem pole rat race sex sells. Skin pigment, gender, how many Pogs you had as a kid. That kinda thing.
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Last edited by Plan9; 10-26-2007 at 08:28 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10-26-2007, 08:29 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by willravel
I never saw it outside of France and there it wasn't anywhere near as bad as the US south. Lynching because of race would be unheard of in Western Europe.
Thats odd, I personally know some Californian's who got the hell outta there, because of the intolerable level of racism, & moved to TN btw...... where they say its like a new world compared to CA.....

I dont recall what part of CA, but I know a couple & a single mother who both said the same thing.......along the higher cost of living, natural disasters, and overpopulation known all to well as CA trademarks.......

*Gets run over by an H2 with a "We Love Neil Young Songs" bumbersticker*
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:11 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
Thinking a black thug on the street is a criminal isn't racist because most black thugs on the street are criminals.
Please clarify something. What do you mean by "thug" or "Black thug"? If by "thug" you mean someone with a disposition toward crime, then your statement seems circular. It would be like saying "thinking a student in the room is a scholar." Of course a thug can be assumed as being potentially criminal. You are begging the question here.

If I saw a Black youth wearing baggy pants, a basketball jersey, and a bandanna, I might think an array of things. I would think foremost that he is participating in urban culture by what he is wearing. I might think he breaks the law, specifically because of the gangster rap culture he might be playing up to. But I would also look at him as a common phenomenon. Lots of youths dress like that. I would look at him (depending on his age) as a student who could very well one day become a lawyer. I would look at him as a poet, possibly. He could be anything, really.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:40 PM   #137 (permalink)
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This thread is all over the place. Somehow... nationalism, the Cold War, and the French are part of the discussion now.

It's interesting (though not really productive) to see where the conversation leads just so there's something to keep talking about.

Manic_Skafe is exactly right. The way these threads meander out into completely unrelated topics is precisely because these topics get stale quickly. A topic comes up every so often... and when all the same things have been said, it becomes a game of continuing to talk longer than the other people even though no one actually has anything to say.

I'm not saying people posting have nothing to say- I'm saying it seems they have nothing to say on this topic anymore. It's pretty much run its course unless someone comes in and breathes some new life into it.
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Old 10-27-2007, 04:10 AM   #138 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Jazz
I think that I can say as a natural-born American raised in the South speaking to someone who's just visited and never lived here that you don't know what you're talking about.

...............................

As far as discussion of the problem goes, what the hell do you think this whole thread is about?
"I haven't lived there"? That's it? There's your arguement? Considering that's the full basis of your response to my experience then I can say that your whole post was a waste of precious time. I lived more than 20 years in the U.S. .............. so now you'll follow your normal pattern of "grabbing at straws" and tell me that my 20 years is "no valid reason". I know you too well already. You base your total argumentative weight on more of the same insincere view that left this (and other forums) without any constructive work accomplished. So now we're at it again. Your tactic is, "I can't be wrong, therefore you must be" and "my experience doesn't taly with yours' so you're wrong."

No matter how you cut it your post said nothing more than "I know lots and you know nothing so I know better than you" - now that's what I really call "an invalid reason". You're getting very tedius now and I'm getting tired of you quickly.
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Old 10-27-2007, 04:13 AM   #139 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
This thread is all over the place. Somehow... nationalism, the Cold War, and the French are part of the discussion now.
Better question: When are they not viable red herrings?

...

I think all the pigments need to relax a little. White people need to stop being so Wite-Out (drum crash) over all their possibly offensive stuff and perhaps black people need to realize that despite the nature of the world we live in... optimism is the only thing that will change the self-perpetuating state we live in where white guy does something stupid, black community reacts, animosity goes back to square one.

More people should listen to Bill Cosby's stance on race / community.
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Old 10-27-2007, 04:17 AM   #140 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Does this mean I have to take down my black bats?
Yes! And the yellow corn too. You see, I know that you really want to make racist statement about the chinese - don't try to deny it! You damned racists are all the same!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
Is being prejudice really a bad thing?
NO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
Or is it human nature?
YES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Europe, as a whole, is more openly racist than any other place in the world.
Where do you get such insane ideas? Have you never heard of tribal exterminations in Africa? The trail of tears in the U.S.? The extermination of Aboriginals in specific parts of Australia? The slaughter of native indians in South America? The Japanese treatment of ehtnic miniorities and chinese? The racist laws by the Arabs against blacks in Mauretania still today?

Your statement about Europe is bewildering. You must have heard it at the bar in the bowling lanes on Saturday night.

Racism in Europe: YES
Europe being "the most openly racist than any other place in the world": NOT EVEN CLOSE

Last edited by Fast Forward; 10-27-2007 at 04:31 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10-27-2007, 05:53 AM   #141 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
This thread is all over the place. Somehow... nationalism, the Cold War, and the French are part of the discussion now.

It's interesting (though not really productive) to see where the conversation leads just so there's something to keep talking about.
i think it's awesome. as far as productive, it is in a way. all the little bits of opinion and feelings and fact all add up to a general view of how people feel and such. at least to me in my warped little view of the world.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:34 AM   #142 (permalink)
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This is a symptom of what has become a mass cultural denial in the US.

My local news channels won't even give race when they are giving the description of a subject at large.

A 6 foot tall male, approximately 180 pounds, wearing a blue t-shirt.....

I mean in an area with a huge black, hispanic, white and asian population what good would race be looking for a criminal?

A few years back Philadelphia put the pictures of 32 wanted murders who were known to be at large on the front page of the major paper (don't recall which one). All were black but one was hispanic. Black leaders were up in arms at this obviously racist display, the paper who's editor was black, apologized. We are talking about the known murders that are free in Philadelphia and the local black leadership was more worried about the perception, than catching men who may kill again.

I think this sort of idiocy is what a lot of people are upset about, and why whitey gets so worked up over something like the original story. Enough is enough.
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Old 10-27-2007, 09:12 AM   #143 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
I think this sort of idiocy is what a lot of people are upset about, and why whitey gets so worked up over something like the original story. Enough is enough.

One wonders where whitey was when his religious leaders were calling for a boycott of halloween because of how positively devilish it is.

Nothing makes for better theater than responding to oversensitivity with oversensitivity.
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Old 10-27-2007, 09:38 AM   #144 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtherton
One wonders where whitey was when his religious leaders were calling for a boycott of halloween because of how positively devilish it is.

Nothing makes for better theater than responding to oversensitivity with oversensitivity.
A great many whiteys were annoyed with the anti-Halloween idiots as well, and the anti-Christmas idiots currently.

The difference is the scale of it. The 'white guilt' is about used up.
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Old 10-27-2007, 09:49 AM   #145 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Forward
Europe being "the most openly racist than any other place in the world": NOT EVEN CLOSE
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're wrong. Europe is suffering from an alarming increase in racism; Moreso, in fact, than any other place in the world. I'm not sure how anyone with the knowledge of the situation can argue this point.

Link

Quote:
In “the century of total war”, and the new millenium, Europe is seeing an alarming resurgence in xenophobia and racial hatred.

A short review from the Inter Press Service highlights the rise of neo-Nazism in 2000 in Europe and suggests that “far from being a fringe activity, racism, violence and neo-nationalism have become normal in some communities. The problems need to tackled much earlier, in schools and with social programmes.”

Ethnic minorities and different cultures in one country can often be used as a scapegoat for the majority during times of economic crisis. That is one reason why Nazism became so popular.

In France, May 2002, the success of far right politician Le Pen in the run for leadership (though he lost out in the end) sent a huge shockwave throughout Europe, about how easy it was for far right parties to come close to getting power if there is complacency in the democratic processes and if participation is reduced.

In various places throughout Western Europe, in 2002, as Amnesty International highlights, there has been a rise in racist attacks and sentiments against both Arabs and Jews, in light of the increasing hostilities in the Middle East.

Earlier in 1998, in an area of Germany a right wing racist party won an unprecedented number of votes.

In Austria, the Freedom Party was able to secure the majority of the cabinet posts. The party is an extreme far right party, whose leader, Jorg Heider, has been accused of sympathetic statements towards the Nazis. The European Union has reacted to this indicating that Austria’s participation may be in jeopardy. This Guardian Special Report has much more in-depth coverage.

In Italy, there are attempts to try and deal with the rise in undocumented immigrants from Tunisia. The reactions from the right wing have been labeled by some as being “openly racist”.

In 1997, Human Rights Watch noted that, “The U.K. has one of the highest levels of racially-motivated violence and harassment in Western Europe, and the problem is getting worse.” In April 1999, London saw two bombs explode in predominantly ethnic minority areas, in the space of one week, where a Nazi group has claimed responsibility. The summer of 2001 saw many race-related riots in various parts of northern England.

Spain has seen increased racial violence lately. The growing economy invites immigrants from North African countries such as Morocco. However, the poor conditions that immigrants have had to endure and the already racially charged region has led to friction and confrontations.

Greece has one of the worst records in the European Union for racism against ethnic minorities, according to the BBC. Anti-immigrant sentiment has long been high, especially against ethnic Albanians, who form the largest minority. Until the 1990s, the BBC notes, Greece had been an extremely homogenous society. With the fall of communism many immigrants from Eastern Europe came to Greece. Albanians especially have been targetted by a lot of racist sentiment. Some hostage taking by a few Albanians in recent years has not helped the situation.

So far, the above represents an incredibly tiny number of examples and details. Many, many more events haven’t been mentioned, as it is admittedly difficult to keep up with all the different items. For more details and up-to-date information, one web site to check out the UK-based Institute of Race Relations and their subsection attemping to document the rising support for the extreme-Right in local and central government in Europe, building on a platform of populist anti-immigrant policies.
This isn't a knock on anyone, but check out international football (Soccer to us Americans). Only in Europe do you have fans who openly display neo-Nazism, going so far as to construct banners which say "Go home monkey!", or berating players with racial slurs or even throwing items at certain players-- Even if said player plays for their team (Just ask Theirry Henry, as he and a few other minority players ran an add about open racism throughout Europe a couple of years back).
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Old 10-27-2007, 09:50 AM   #146 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
The difference is the scale of it. The 'white guilt' is about used up.
I think that there's an endless supply.


What i don't understand is why whitey A gets all worked up because he thinks that whitey B's got the white guilt. Okay, so whitey A wouldn't take down his halloween decoration, regardless of how much it reminded someone of how cheap life can be if you're an oppressed minority. Why does whitey A give a fuck if whitey B takes down the decoration? Does whitey A feel like whiteness isn't properly being represented by whitey B, and if so, who the fuck is whitey A to presume to know how to represent whiteness?
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:13 AM   #147 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtherton
I think that there's an endless supply.


What i don't understand is why whitey A gets all worked up because he thinks that whitey B's got the white guilt. Okay, so whitey A wouldn't take down his halloween decoration, regardless of how much it reminded someone of how cheap life can be if you're an oppressed minority. Why does whitey A give a fuck if whitey B takes down the decoration? Does whitey A feel like whiteness isn't properly being represented by whitey B, and if so, who the fuck is whitey A to presume to know how to represent whiteness?
I think Whitey A is fed up with Blacky C making a big deal about Whitey B.

I don't think many are pissed off with Whitey B taking it down, its the fact they felt coerced to for something so ridiculous that just seems so stupid.

The race card is getting quite old.
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:24 AM   #148 (permalink)
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I agree that the race card is getting old. I do think it odd that folks who would ostensibly complain about racism would rally in support of a perspective that thinks that black folks should just lighten up, it's like saying, "those fucking blacks need to quit being so racist." I imagine that if certain folks really thought the race card was getting old, the title of this thread wouldn't mention it at all.

You can't claim that the race card is getting old and claim that black folks need to lighten up. If you want race to go away, which, good luck, you might want to stop talking about it as if it is important.
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:33 AM   #149 (permalink)
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:39 PM   #150 (permalink)
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I don't care if the hanging ghoul has an afro or some other relatively black dominate feature. It still doesn't necessarily make it racist. I think painting the ghoul white was more than enough to appease the people that were wrongly offended by it.

As for the thread title - Well, I kinda like it, It's definitely an attention grabber. Yeah it overgeneralizes things but until more black people start criticizing the organizations representing them, us white folk just have to assume that they agree with em. We folks of non-color are always stepping up and defending ourselves every time someone does or says something racist yet when someone like the NAACP cries racism over something stupid like the color of a Halloween decoration there's hardly no black people stepping up and saying, "it's just a fucking Halloween decoration!"

Heck if this Halloween decoration was the most racist thing in the country right now, I think we're doing pretty damn good... Too bad there's no REAL racism for the NAACP the focus on... /sarcasm.
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:49 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onesnowyowl
I think after the incident in Jena and so on, the country is very sensitive to this sort of thing.
The victim in the Jena case was a white kid. Are white people all over America freaking out about something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrklixx
So, do I see racism in this story.

You bet.

According to the article:




So this means that the preacher and the "black community leaders" are OK with the depictions of a murdered human, but the depictions of a murdered [b]black[/i] human are blatantly offensive and somehow more important than some ol' white guy takin' a knife to the gut.

Sounds like racism to me.
Awesome point!
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Last edited by Telluride; 10-27-2007 at 12:54 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:59 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Interesting photobucket TOS'd my Nazareno photos since someone complained that it was racist.



So the NYTimes article had a photo and a description of the "prop"


Quote:
Originally Posted by NYTimes.com
This Halloween, Man in Noose Wins a Reprieve   click to show 




I can see why they think it looks like a black man. Looks like a black man to me based on facial features...
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Old 10-27-2007, 01:38 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
A great many whiteys were annoyed with the anti-Halloween idiots as well, and the anti-Christmas idiots currently.
For the record, I'm not anti-Halloween, I'm pro-Samhain; I'm not anti-Christmas, I'm pro-Dies Natalis Solis Invicti
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Old 10-27-2007, 01:39 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
I can see why they think it looks like a black man. Looks like a black man to me based on facial features...
It doesn't look black to me. It looks like a deformed person/thing of unidentifiable race who was set on fire or something. And then used as a yard decoration.
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Old 10-27-2007, 02:06 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telluride
It doesn't look black to me. It looks like a deformed person/thing of unidentifiable race who was set on fire or something. And then used as a yard decoration.
Actually it does look like a black caricature to me.

If I just saw it randomly I wouldn't think it was racist or the like, but if you are the kind of person looking FOR racism I can see where you would find it here.
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Old 10-27-2007, 02:11 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Isnt the real question why ANYBODY would want to hang a fake corpse from their house - really regardless of what racial characteristics the body might have?
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Old 10-27-2007, 02:16 PM   #157 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
Isnt the real question why ANYBODY would want to hang a fake corpse from their house - really regardless of what racial characteristics the body might have?
Because it's Halloween?
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Old 10-27-2007, 03:24 PM   #158 (permalink)
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and thats a good time to celebrate capital punishment?

All Hallows Eve used to mean something rather different.
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Old 10-27-2007, 03:33 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
and thats a good time to celebrate capital punishment?

All Hallows Eve used to mean something rather different.
In the US it has a strong infusion of the Mexican 'dios de muertos', something I don't have a problem with.
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Old 10-27-2007, 03:36 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Except when you see things like a Black caricature hanging in someone's yard. Then it has a Tex-Mex feel to it.
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